Juggernaut Leveling/Tanking - Really That Bad?

[Frostbird]

So after giving some of the classes a look, I am getting ready to choose a main and am leaning towards a tank. Sith Warrior is probably the class that appeals most to me on the Emp side.

 

However I've read a *lot* of posts about how awful the leveling experience is and how bad the class is at tanking.

 

Is this true? What exactly makes it like this? Would you recommend a Juggernaut to another player?

[skeptikill]

My experience with SW at now level 46 hasn't been nearly as bad as some people on here have been saying it would be. In fact levelling has been rather easy even without the use of a healer companion, but then again I'm not levelling my character in a typical fashion. Essentially I'm placing points into Vengeance tree but I'm ignoring both offensive stances and using Soresu (defensive) form along with defensive tanking gear and stats. Most elites seem to die without me ever going below half health. Sometimes I don't even drop past 75% hp.

 

After playing with several Vengeance and rage builds this is the levelling build I'm shooting for and it seems to work great so far.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cMhZhGMMrhddhRZM.1

[Kallti]

I'm 43 and having a great time, full immortal spec all the way.

[Ixtellor]

Ignore the whiners. I have been immortal spec entire time and it's easy to level. Only quest I ever had trouble was when I had to kill a +4 elite because I was too far ahead in my class quest. Voss (level 43-47) had some hard fights but ignore the kids who like spamming through games with an easy button. Everyone in my guild has a harder time leveling than me.

[Frostbird]

Thanks, some good replies. Curious as to why there is so much complaining from Juggernauts/Marauders compared to other classes as far as leveling goes.

 

Was story any good? The only other class I've really taken a long look at was a Jedi Shadow and abandoned that due to my dislike for the story/companions.

 

Would love to hear from some endgame tanks, since I am definately looking to raid...operate...whatever it's called down the line.

[archontrieste]

Leveling we do just fine. A previous poster mentioned using Soresu form while specced Vengeance and wearing mostly DPS gear, and that's what I've been doing. With mediocre gear you can usually handle about a same level elite and a strong at the same time. Due to a lack of crowd control you don't really want to push it any further than that. Just don't try switching out of Soresu, you will sink like a godamn stone, seriously you will die so fast you will think you just rerolled into a clothie.

 

I am unsure about tanking at 50, but I can't logically see why we'd be able to compete with a powertech. Looking at both classes without having actually played them at 50, I'd bet cold hard money on the powertech being a superior tank. We have some nice cooldowns, but seemingly less stability overall, and considering our AoE (in)ability and lack of range, I'm positive our threat generation blows by comparison. But like I say, I haven't played either class at 50, so take all that with a grain of salt. At levels 20 to 36, I've tanked sufficiently on same level flashpoints using the Immortal tree.

Edited January 16, 2012 by archontrieste

[Darth_Hatine]

My experience with SW at now level 46 hasn't been nearly as bad as some people on here have been saying it would be. In fact levelling has been rather easy even without the use of a healer companion, but then again I'm not levelling my character in a typical fashion. Essentially I'm placing points into Vengeance tree but I'm ignoring both offensive stances and using Soresu (defensive) form along with defensive tanking gear and stats. Most elites seem to die without me ever going below half health. Sometimes I don't even drop past 75% hp.

 

After playing with several Vengeance and rage builds this is the levelling build I'm shooting for and it seems to work great so far.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cMhZhGMMrhddhRZM.1

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cMZI0rRruddhRZzM.1

 

I'm thinking of using this build, Shien is awesome and you have near infinite rage with it.

[Frostbird]

I don't know. Am reading forums right now and am getting depressed. From how I understand it, even after the buffs I will need to work twice as hard to tank *almost* as effectively as a Powertech or Darkness user :|

 

Already went through this on my Deathknight back in WoW. Don't want it again. Ugh.

[lordofdamornin]

Frostbird -

 

As a 50 Juggernaut:

 

Geared, you are pretty beast, though still needing a bit of work.

 

Anything less, and you are mediocre at best.

 

I have yet to actually try this, but I am pretty sure that both Vengeance and Rage can tank just fine (with better threat gen), assuming you are using full tank gear, and Soresu form. Again, I haven't tried it yet, but I might.

 

Something else you should know - currently, there is a bug related to mitigation that causes your GCD to trigger when you hit an ability (most notably Retaliation/Scream), but the ability itself doesn't actually fire. I have heard of Marauders having this problem as well, but have yet to hear of any other classes having to deal with it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/Mrfailfactory

 

My channel, which has a lot of the SW class quest. The endgame stuff will be up soon, but there is quite a bit of standard, non-spoiler gameplay if you want to watch. The Belsavis vids show both Immortal and Rage.

 

Riôt

[Frostbird]

Thanks Riot. So...would you say that we are more gear dependant/in a worse position than the other tanks?

[Xrande]

So after giving some of the classes a look, I am getting ready to choose a main and am leaning towards a tank. Sith Warrior is probably the class that appeals most to me on the Emp side.

 

However I've read a *lot* of posts about how awful the leveling experience is and how bad the class is at tanking.

 

Is this true? What exactly makes it like this? Would you recommend a Juggernaut to another player?

 

By itself, Juggernaut don't seem that bad. It levels fine, but the DPS tree has occasional issues in some zones especially Taris, Hoth onwards. Levelling wise it is harder compared to BH Powertech.

 

Tanking survivability is strong. Multiple Aggro can be an issue.

 

But if you try grouping with a BH Powertech, you would find yourself ... OMG! Jugger suddenly sucked. Simply PT is better at tanking, handling multiple aggro and dish out better DPS -- all that at range advantage. Some would say, yea it is a challenge blablabla.

 

Fact is, Jugger is much less attractive if you put them together. But itself, Jugger seems fine.

[Putok]

In the 20s, my Immortal Jugg is easily more durable than my Darkness Assassin was. My leveling partner is a lightning sorc, and we are easily 20 manning same level 4 man heroics. Going to try Athis and Hammer Station tomorrow to see how those go, but I doubt we'll run into any trouble after how easy the Balmorra heroics were.

[Frostbird]

By itself, Juggernaut don't seem that bad. It levels fine, but the DPS tree has occasional issues in some zones especially Taris, Hoth onwards. Levelling wise it is harder compared to BH Powertech.

 

Tanking survivability is strong. Multiple Aggro can be an issue.

 

But if you try grouping with a BH Powertech, you would find yourself ... OMG! Jugger suddenly sucked. Simply PT is better at tanking, handling multiple aggro and dish out better DPS -- all that at range advantage. Some would say, yea it is a challenge blablabla.

 

Fact is, Jugger is much less attractive if you put them together. But itself, Jugger seems fine.

 

So basically "if you want to raid, roll a PT".

 

Damn.

[Pretorian]

So basically "if you want to raid, roll a PT".

 

Damn.

 

Yep, if you forgo fun for FOTM. It's very plausible that the shortcomings of the jugg today will be fixed to make it on par with other tanks.

[Frostbird]

Yep, if you forgo fun for FOTM. It's very plausible that the shortcomings of the jugg today will be fixed to make it on par with other tanks.

 

I'd rather see the story and then roll a class that will allow me to experience and enjoy endgame . I am seldom one to FOTM, but this isn't a case of "this class is 5% better than that class". This is a case of people claiming everthing from being raid skilled/geared and still dying on dailies, to people actually suffering hand cramps trying to tie together the skills.

[Pretorian]

I'd rather see the story and then roll a class that will allow me to experience and enjoy endgame . I am seldom one to FOTM, but this isn't a case of "this class is 5% better than that class". This is a case of people claiming everthing from being raid skilled/geared and still dying on dailies, to people actually suffering hand cramps trying to tie together the skills.

 

The choice is yours. But those who fail at something tend to use power words such as "everything", "impossible", "never ever succeed" and whatnot. Still, I also believe that the jugg needs some attention.

[Aikagi]

So basically "if you want to raid, roll a PT".

 

Damn.

Not entirely true, I've been main tanking operations.

 

However, admittedly I bet the other two classes could probably do the same job with less effort.

[MadJehuty]

Like many of us dedicated to play the class because of the fun things you can do with it, I will sit patiently till BW find the solution to fix some of our mechanics that are being expressed on the forums. LONG LIVE THE FORCE CHOKE!!!!!!! Edited January 16, 2012 by MadJehuty

[Tengobotas]

Yep, if you forgo fun for FOTM. It's very plausible that the shortcomings of the jugg today will be fixed to make it on par with other tanks.

 

 

Seeing the 1.1 patch notes, you could be waiting a while...

[DiLune]

Not entirely true, I've been main tanking operations.

 

However, admittedly I bet the other two classes could probably do the same job with less effort.

 

On the theory of "Bring the Player, not th class" you are correct. But to turn it around on those who always say "Jugg is fine, L2P" I would theorize that bad players get in on Powertechs/Assassins while only exceptional players make it on Juggs. And as the perception spreads, even all but the lucky few will be SoL.

[lordofdamornin]

Thanks Riot. So...would you say that we are more gear dependant/in a worse position than the other tanks?

 

In my opinion, at this point in the game:

 

The Juggernaut tank is both more gear, and skill dependent than the other tanks. I think a flat 10% damage increase would fix our threat problems, and once they fix the mitigation bug/issue, we should be in good shape.

 

They have to be careful though, because any changes to help *undergeared* Juggernauts will make geared/skilled ones even more powerful than they already seem to be. I say seem, because I'm not geared yet, so I can't say for sure.

 

Riôt

[sanctified]

No L2p crap from me. I have a juggernaut and a powertech. I choose to use my powertech over my Jugg mostly because of snowflake syndrome. Which is to say that there are a metric ton of Juggernaut tanks, and barely any powertechs on my server, Lord Adraas. Between the two of them I enjoy tanking on my Juggernaut more. PT's are fun for the heat management game, but in a long single target fight, Juggs have the advantage. Their resource is endless, and they can put out some serious threat, if not the same damage as a PT. PT's are slightly gimped in that they can never truly go all out and have to continually pace themselves in order to avoid losing use of their abilities. Intitial threat is great though. Maintaining it is the issue they face.

 

OP, aoe threat isn't a very important issue for leveling tanks, so it isn't something you should consider when selecting what you want to play. No matter what your class is, you use CC or you die. If you have a good healer supporting you, you can handle three elites at once tops. But if you run in determined to be an hero, you'll wipe your group.

 

Pick a powertech if you want to stand out. Nice damage even in tank spec, range skills that will let you lock down ranged dps without having to move, the only class with a charge and a pull. Uses elemental fire damage, tears stuff apart while leveling. Some single target threat issues on long fights. Best AOE.

 

Pick an Assassin for a sweet medium between Techs and Juggs. Good single target threat great survivability, the only tank class with a crowd control, stealth for ease of leveling. Average aoe. Can't survive long tanking multiple mobs when dark ward charges are blown.

 

Pick a Juggernaut for a high mobility tank with the best cooldowns in the game. Saber ward, endure pain, and immortal are the ****. Endless resources while tanking. One Good aoe damage skill hampered by a long cooldown (smash). Requires a lot of binds to use effectively leading to the belief that you have to work twice as hard to do the same level of work as assassins or techs. Good Juggernaut tanks are awesome to watch but the steep learning curve makes for a lot of bad Juggernaut tanks. Premier imperial tank Guaranteed to get a boost.

[Frostbird]

No L2p crap from me. I have a juggernaut and a powertech. I choose to use my powertech over my Jugg mostly because of snowflake syndrome. Which is to say that there are a metric ton of Juggernaut tanks, and barely any powertechs on my server, Lord Adraas. Between the two of them I enjoy tanking on my Juggernaut more. PT's are fun for the heat management game, but in a long single target fight, Juggs have the advantage. Their resource is endless, and they can put out some serious threat, if not the same damage as a PT. PT's are slightly gimped in that they can never truly go all out and have to continually pace themselves in order to avoid losing use of their abilities. Intitial threat is great though. Maintaining it is the issue they face.

 

OP, aoe threat isn't a very important issue for leveling tanks, so it isn't something you should consider when selecting what you want to play. No matter what your class is, you use CC or you die. If you have a good healer supporting you, you can handle three elites at once tops. But if you run in determined to be an hero, you'll wipe your group.

 

Pick a powertech if you want to stand out. Nice damage even in tank spec, range skills that will let you lock down ranged dps without having to move, the only class with a charge and a pull. Uses elemental fire damage, tears stuff apart while leveling. Some single target threat issues on long fights. Best AOE.

 

Pick an Assassin for a sweet medium between Techs and Juggs. Good single target threat great survivability, the only tank class with a crowd control, stealth for ease of leveling. Average aoe. Can't survive long tanking multiple mobs when dark ward charges are blown.

 

Pick a Juggernaut for a high mobility tank with the best cooldowns in the game. Saber ward, endure pain, and immortal are the ****. Endless resources while tanking. One Good aoe damage skill hampered by a long cooldown (smash). Requires a lot of binds to use effectively leading to the belief that you have to work twice as hard to do the same level of work as assassins or techs. Good Juggernaut tanks are awesome to watch but the steep learning curve makes for a lot of bad Juggernaut tanks. Premier imperial tank Guaranteed to get a boost.

 

Tanks, good post

[jasta_]

Levelling I'm having an awesome time and I'd say the one area Juggs absolutely shine is going 1v1 vs elites. I've barely raised a sweat killing yellow mobs that have other classes struggling.

 

Oh and the Sith Warrior story is just freaking amazing, one of the most fun games I've played, MMO or otherwise.

 

PvP is a very mixed bag. If you can get organised and work with your team it's good. If you find yourself running around on your own a lot it can be incredibly frustrating.

 

My experience of ops/fp tanking is limited but I have a feeling Juggs are a bit gimped at the moment... I think that'll change pretty soon though.