BioWare Ignores Marauder Problem; High-Member Guilds Not Allowing Marauder Class

[SodaOfYoda]

Playing Marauder reminds me of playing THF in FFXI: Nobody really like bringing a THF in a group because most of the time THFs don't know the pointy end from the handle end of a dagger, and don't know how to optimize their abilities and gear; however, the rare few that actually know how to play their class right rocked peoples worlds and topped charts. As of right now, I'm having fun as a Marauder. Sure, I'm a bit squishier than some of the other classes, and yes, I'm don't have as easy a time in WZ as my sorcerer, but being able to outshine classes that should be superior to me, as well as showing other marauders what they can do, is a reward all by itself.

 

The good ol' SATA days. Those are pretty much gone. Now it's just for the TH bonus on Abyssea/Voidwatch mobs.

 

This class definitely has some quarks but so far has been a blast playing. It does feel a little light on the survivability compared to other classes I've played.

Edited January 16, 2012 by SodaOfYoda

[Norumaniac]

Mara will become THE melee class after some patches.

 

Hang in there!

[haluo]

Ranged can do the same dps we do, but do not have to be right next to their target. Melee have to be right next to their target.

 

This is a game flaw, it means a ranged can stay on target easier, and can rapidly switch it's target, where as we have to move to the next target or chase it around.

 

Our problem is not that we are squishy, its simply that ranged game mechanics are a bit better than melee.

 

I see 3 possible solutions.

 

1. Buff melee damage

2. Nerf ranged damage

3. give melee more mobility

 

I have hope. It has been my exp in MMO's that the "worst" class at the start of a new game, the first half a year ends up becoming EXTREMELY powerfull.

 

my example is Warlocks from WoW, they SUCKED hardcore the first 6-12 months of wow, but ended up being one if not most powerfull and desirable class to take. Since they sucked for the first 6-12 months not many people played them, so the ones that stuck with it became extremely valuable and guilds wanted them bad.

 

by the time the other guys caught on it was to late, the ones who stuck with it had much more exp and better gear.

 

I myself hope they just buff our damage, because I want to be the master of death and destruction, let the tanks have heavy armor, I want more damage.

[Maxxacre]

Here's the thing... you need to look at the situation with Marauders in context. All through development they were supposed to be wearing heavy armor and their 10m abilities were being used at 30m. Suddenly, almost right before launch, they get nerfed hard to the point that they're now wearing medium armor and have a maximum range of 10m, excluding force charge.

 

They didn't really have time to balance for that though. Just before launch the devs were busy with so many other issues, and even if they weren't, they just didn't have the proper amount of time to administer enough testing to make sure those nerfs didn't hit the Marauders too hard.

 

Now that the game is live and they are going to be paying attention to class balance in the long run, they have the time and resources available to take a good look at how those last minute changes are affecting the class as a whole. I'm not saying they will revert back to the way it was, but they will almost certainly make some changes to adjust for those things. There are a number of things they can do. The fundamental aspects of the class will not change, but some of the strengths and weaknesses will undoubtedly be tweaked. Heck, if we're lucky they might even add a few new skills.

 

If they leave it as squishy as it is, they may add some kind of CC to the class. In fact, if they were to add any skills I think that would be a likely candidate. When you nerf the range and the armor of a melee class like that last minute, it becomes apparent that the class doesn't have CC because it would have been unbalanced if it had any significant amount of control in addition to high survivability and average to high damage. Nerf that survivability though and suddenly that lack of CC now becomes a detriment to the class.

 

I would like to see them add the standard 4 second stun on a 1 minute CD to the class AND change Force Push to be a Sith Warrior ability rather than just a Juggernaut ability, of course including the mechanic of refreshing the cooldown on Force Charge when using the push just as they are doing for the Juggernaut. But that seems like something that could only happen in a dream world. I personally think the class would be really well balanced for PvP simply with those changes.

 

As for PvE, they have already said they are taking a look at the class and have hinted that some changes are forthcoming. What those changes are, we cannot really know... but I think it's safe to assume they're going to be buffs rather than nerfs. It's not so easy to say that for other classes though. Whether nerfs are needed or not, people who are playing Sorcerer/Sage, Operative/Scoundrel, and Mercenary/Commando should probably be pretty worried just at how much complaining has gone on in the forums.

 

All I can say is that I'm really glad I'm playing a class that's actually pretty good, but that the majority of the community thinks is the worst class in the game. It's most certainly not... but it's more complex to play it effectively than any other class, by Bioware's own admission. Basically, it's the perfect class for someone who knows what they are doing, and it's pretty much nerf resistant.

[Maxxacre]

Our problem is not that we are squishy, its simply that ranged game mechanics are a bit better than melee.

 

I see 3 possible solutions.

 

1. Buff melee damage

2. Nerf ranged damage

3. give melee more mobility

 

I find this to be extremely untrue. Ranged classes, especially the Mercenary/Commando, are extremely easy to deal with as a melee class. And for all the talk of how OP they are, Sorcerers/Sages are also incredibly easy to deal with. As a Marauder, the only problem with range is sometimes when you face a smart Sniper who is in cover. You can't leap to them, and if they position themselves just right, they can get a lot of damage off on you before you can get to them. If they stay in cover, you're likely to have problems with them even in melee range simply because of an inability to interrupt them. If your defensive cooldowns are not available, you're pretty much fighting a losing battle. Aside from that though, I don't think range has an inherent advantage over melee at all. A lot of the best abilities for ranged classes in this game are on a cast time, and being that we have a 6-8 second (depending if you talent into it) interrupt, plus some really nice defensive cooldowns, there really shouldn't be any problem dealing with them.

[bushkalle]

I have to agree with alot of people here that the damage of the Marauder is just fine, and PvE wise, I dont really see why people would ditch us in raids or HM (not done any HM myself since I'm mostly just playing PvP).

 

But for PvP I feel we need some survivability indeed, dont know if giving us Heavy Armor will do so much, considering the difference between light and medium is about 5% as I read in a thread, and I'd guess it aint so much higher between medium and heavy.

What we instead would need is a stun, or some sort of CC considering all the darn knockbacks and stuns every other class have in the game, some even got both! I mean, Jugger and Guardian have a knockback and feels wierd that we dont have one.. but maby we dont need a knockback but atleast something to even the odds a bit, a short stun would be nice.

 

Or why not have some more escape tools, for exampel Force Camo could have a bit longer duration to say.. 7-8 sec instead of 4 and increase the cd of it with 50% would be a nice thing for pvp, or have a talent in T2 of a tree to make it like that so we dont ruin our threat reset for pve. Maby make us have force shocke where we dont need to channel it as well as for Jugger/Guardian.

 

Either way tho I'm sure BioWare sooner or later will make it work for us, until then I'm enjoying my Marauder in PvP, even if I hated it until 45+ its okey now and will only get better I bet.

Edited January 16, 2012 by bushkalle

[Supersaiyanswag]

Marauders are definitely not bad in PvP like you all seem to believe. Carnage and Annihilation could use buffs for sure but Rage is absolutely competitive in PvP. With a spec based on slows (force crush), two gap closers (obliterate and force charge), and very high burst damage once rage is built I don't see how most people can't stay competitive. Force camo offers a great way to break fights quickly and reopen to grab an advantage. Predation is a very effective way to get back on target since 30 fury fairly easily built.

 

The only problem PvP marauders do have is that we follow the classic DPS warrior guidelines. Amazing with a healer and not great without one. We also seem to be very gear reliant. With a healer I've been able to put up 50-70 kills and 400-500k damage warzones with no deaths, feel like an unstoppable murder machine. Running with a healer also makes your Cloak of Pain, Saber ward and especially Undying Rage way more effective. Without a healer, yes I take some deaths and am no where near as amazing with a healer, but I can still put out very high damage and control an area very effectively.

So survivability may not be the greatest when queuing solo but who really cares? I've never play and MMO where I went into competitive PvP solo expecting my class to be at it's best, that's just unrealistic.

 

1v1 as well I haven't seen marauders (myself and other top end marauders on my server) having issues with anyone.

 

As far as CC complaints, what's wrong with intimidating roar? A 6 second AoE CC is a great tool.

 

The only thing is, in the future for ranked warzones/arena style combat, why would your group not have healers?

Edited January 16, 2012 by Supersaiyanswag
Addition

[Kenshinth]

Well....you all may know me from the "Marauder : The Worst Class Ever" thread. Now I find that a lot of high level guilds are not allowing Marauders AT ALL.

 

I was told "Marauder is one of the most useless classes"

 

BioWare...you said you would make the game "fair" instead all you did was buff Juggernauts even more and ignored the real problem.

 

Thanks a lot. By the end of this, Marauders will be next to EXTINCT.

 

Those guilds are retarded. If the guild is PvE wise then they cutting their legs short. I do see our class getting bad rep because of people who simply refuse to research the class and learn how are abilities work. They just assume we have a I win button and face roll keys then say ZOMG WORST CLASS EVER because they cant spam 1 button. PvE wise we are fine might need a small buff but that's it. PvP wise need some survivability and look for another guild because those guilds are retarded like I mentioned before.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Kenshinth

[besbin]

I find this to be extremely untrue. Ranged classes, especially the Mercenary/Commando, are extremely easy to deal with as a melee class. And for all the talk of how OP they are, Sorcerers/Sages are also incredibly easy to deal with. As a Marauder, the only problem with range is sometimes when you face a smart Sniper who is in cover. You can't leap to them, and if they position themselves just right, they can get a lot of damage off on you before you can get to them. If they stay in cover, you're likely to have problems with them even in melee range simply because of an inability to interrupt them. If your defensive cooldowns are not available, you're pretty much fighting a losing battle. Aside from that though, I don't think range has an inherent advantage over melee at all. A lot of the best abilities for ranged classes in this game are on a cast time, and being that we have a 6-8 second (depending if you talent into it) interrupt, plus some really nice de

fensive cooldowns, there really shouldn't be any problem dealing with them.

 

At last some sense! I am only in my 40s on my sentinel and I DESTROY 50 mercs and sorcs. We have amazing tools available to us. Even at this level with a good use of cooldowns I can survive a long time whilst being beaten on by several bad guys. Don't like the way a fight is going? We even have the force camo cheese escape.

 

This guy is right, the only ranged class that should cause you problems are good snipers in cover. Even then with cooldowns up you stand a good chance. A decent 50 tank could also cause me problems. That is about it. Buff us? LOL if they did that I cant imagine the carnage we would cause. I am just hoping they dont nerf us!

 

Pve single target damage is unbelievable. I constantly draw aggro off the tanks in boss fights and have to dump it with force camo. If the guilds you are applying for dont want this kind of dps and our amazing buffs I suggest you look for a guild that has a clue.

[haluo]

I find this to be extremely untrue. Ranged classes, especially the Mercenary/Commando, are extremely easy to deal with as a melee class. And for all the talk of how OP they are, Sorcerers/Sages are also incredibly easy to deal with. As a Marauder, the only problem with range is sometimes when you face a smart Sniper who is in cover. You can't leap to them, and if they position themselves just right, they can get a lot of damage off on you before you can get to them. If they stay in cover, you're likely to have problems with them even in melee range simply because of an inability to interrupt them. If your defensive cooldowns are not available, you're pretty much fighting a losing battle. Aside from that though, I don't think range has an inherent advantage over melee at all. A lot of the best abilities for ranged classes in this game are on a cast time, and being that we have a 6-8 second (depending if you talent into it) interrupt, plus some really nice defensive cooldowns, there really shouldn't be any problem dealing with them.

 

This thread is about PvE, not PvP. As for your post if your entire PvP strat is based of of cd that are 1-2 mins then you dont get it dude. yes when i have all my cd to burn i can pop them all and own people, anyone can.....

[Voblat]

So what these 'high level' guilds are saying, is they dont want the highest sustainable dps in game, and with berserk/predation/bloodthirst the best group buffs in the game, an ability to reduce 99% of the damage of an enraged boss for 6 seconds and the games best interupt ?

 

I'm going to say they are not as 'high level' as they want to think they are.

[Draexnael]

I would have to agree with this on the topic of things. Nobody knows what sustained damage anyone's putting out. Movement speed buffs on some of these bosses and +damage cd's would be hard to turn down.

 

I have a feeling that, if there is a case of them being turned down, it's because you don't need to stack them. If you're going to stack a class, it will always be competent Ranged unless there's a mechanic that dictates otherwise.

 

One Marauder, maybe two and you've got what you need. Fill the rest with Mercs and Snipers that know how to avoid lightning balls and target the right add while playing Simon Says and you've got a Nightmare Mode raid group.

 

There in lies the crux of the problem you'd take a single Marauder for the 15% damage buff and thats it - melee overall are weaker than ranged in practically all encounters. We may do some of the most sustained damage but what use is that if we're constantly running back in after a knockback or running away from damage - mobility and the fact they are at ranged is one of the main reasons ranged classes have a huge advantage.

 

This is what happened with Shamans in Wow - a single one got brought for heroism, after that got given to mages they started not being taken to raids.. I played a Resto Shaman from vanilla and finally quit when it was obvious for my guild to down Rag 25 HC I would have to step aside for progression as I simply couldn't output the HPS required for the encounter (I was the healing leader and I had outperformed any class on any fight even though the class was very weak throughout cata, but finally realising I had to bench myself for an end boss meant I had finally lost confidence in a game and the class I played.)

 

This is why I worry, we are a niche class we offer 1 truely usefull unique buff and once thats gone what will we have? Having sustained dps means nothing if your constantly not in range to use that.

 

I do NOT want to become a buff/debuff/interupt bot in raids - it feels we are being given all these support type skills forcing a raid to take 1 Marauder - anymore and your nerfing your dps overall. Yes we have some nice skills to make progression easier, I feel BW got it wrong with half their choices when it came to Warrior --> Jugg/Marauder, it would make sense for the tanks to have some of our abilities and us theirs..

Edited January 16, 2012 by Draexnael

[DufterKlopps]

No probs with mauri in pve, Great Debuffs and group buffs, nothin else to say.

the only thing id like to see is better cc breaking ability.

 

a few tweaks would be nice

 

input lag !

remove channeling from ravage, make it 1 hit high damage, use vicious slash animation

remove vicious slash, replace it with massacre from start

give us counter measures for cc f.e. reduce our 2 min mezzbreak to 15 secs

give our force leap a knockback immunity or something like that.

 

a melee class should be somewhat hard to keep at bay. thats not the case atm. BW, this is balancing 1o1.

[Kenshinth]

There in lies the crux of the problem you'd take a single Marauder for the 15% damage buff and thats it - melee overall are weaker than ranged in practically all encounters. We may do some of the most sustained damage but what use is that if we're constantly running back in after a knockback or running away from damage - mobility and the fact they are at ranged is one of the main reasons ranged classes have a huge advantage.

 

This is what happened with Shamans in Wow - a single one got brought for heroism, after that got given to mages they started not being taken to raids.. I played a Resto Shaman from vanilla and finally quit when it was obvious for my guild to down Rag 25 HC I would have to step aside for progression as I simply couldn't output the HPS required for the encounter (I was the healing leader and I had outperformed any class on any fight even though the class was very weak throughout cata, but finally realising I had to bench myself for an end boss meant I had finally lost confidence in a game and the class I played.)

 

This is why I worry, we are a niche class we offer 1 truely usefull unique buff and once thats gone what will we have? Having sustained dps means nothing if your constantly not in range to use that.

 

I do NOT want to become a buff/debuff/interupt bot in raids - it feels we are being given all these support type skills forcing a raid to take 1 Marauder - anymore and your nerfing your dps overall. Yes we have some nice skills to make progression easier, I feel BW got it wrong with half their choices when it came to Warrior --> Jugg/Marauder, it would make sense for the tanks to have some of our abilities and us theirs..

 

The only raid boss I can see a issue with our DPS is Soa which requires alot of moving with all the damn mind traps. The rest dont have much movement required cause Bonethrasher and that second boss in EV have HUGE hitboxes so its not like u gonna be all up in the bosses *** to hit him.

[Zellviren]

It’s really sad that BioWare don’t even get a month into the game before people like the OP demand that the developers solve their problems for them. I’ve yet to see a well-played Marauder who wasn’t an asset to their Operation, and any guild working off a different premise has got it wrong for reasons already listed. It clearly doesn’t occur to a great many people that some folks ENJOY playing supporting roles with great utility, yet can still do so with a class that has high damage.

 

Marauders are not the strongest class ever, and they do have a couple of problems. But anyone who thinks they’re bad (or worse, useless) purely on reputation is only hurting the game by coming out and saying so. What’s even more reprehensible is the clamour for every class to be able to do everything equally well.

 

Take your cries for homogenization, and set fire to ‘em.

 

We don’t want them here.

[AcaciaDragon]

Well....you all may know me from the "Marauder : The Worst Class Ever" thread. Now I find that a lot of high level guilds are not allowing Marauders AT ALL.

 

I was told "Marauder is one of the most useless classes"

 

BioWare...you said you would make the game "fair" instead all you did was buff Juggernauts even more and ignored the real problem.

 

Thanks a lot. By the end of this, Marauders will be next to EXTINCT.

 

Ive never heard of you before.

 

A guild only needs 1 marauder. I think they need to give more classes and specs different debuffs that positively effect the raid as a whole, other than Bloodthirst and Predation. although 2 or 3 mara's working together to keep Bloodthrist up in a raid would be epic. But i think its grp only right?

Edited January 16, 2012 by AcaciaDragon

[darthmorbous]

i love my marauder; i just love the hell out of it, yesterday i was killing lvl 35 -insert class here- with my lvl 30 in opwpvp. I got my keybinds, got my naga, love my mara.

[Kibaken]

Not to toot my own horn but I did kind of write the book, so to speak.

 

Anyone who says Marauders are terrible, underpowered, or have no place in an Ops group 1) are completely and utterly stupid, 2) have no idea how the class works, and 3) took one look at the forums, saw all the "Marauders Suck" threads and said to hell with it.

 

You people have yourselves to blame for this.

 

 

Marauders (and, to a point, Juggernauts) are the only class that can actually provide maximum sustained DPS. We don't have a huge burn phase where we wait for things to regen. We go at it, we go at it hard, and we get **** done. Rage generation is constant and insured through Blood Frenzy and Empowerment. We build and spend while other classes spend and recharge.

 

 

On top of that Bloodthirst and Obfuscate are both incredibly, incredibly useful. Any "high-end" raid guild that doesn't bring a Marauder is missing out on those and, therefore, should not be considered a "high-end" raid guild simply because they're purposely leaving out two exceptionally beneficial abilities.

 

 

Yes, melee DPS suffers from movement -

 

Annihilation - Short fuse makes managing Fury laughable. If you have problems staying on the boss you can Predation (and also help the group) or use your amazingly more efficient close-range Charge.

 

Carnage - Defensive forms gives a whopping 15% in-combat movement bonus. It's incredibly noticeable.

 

Rage - Obliterate. 'Nuff said.

 

 

- and close range AoE damage. The AoE healing available from Sorcerers, Mercenaries and Operatives is absolutely insane. Melee groups up, Sorcerer drops Revivification, Mercenary drops a Kolto-bomb and Operatives hot up. That's on top of Shii-cho's damage reduction (Rage), Defensive Roll (Carnage), and bleed heals (Annihilation), Shii-cho and Juyo's bonuses from Defensive Forms AND Saber Ward/Cloak of Pain/Undying Rage/Medpacs.

 

 

I'm the head of my guild and the head of my raid group. My 8-man Ops team has me. From what I've heard thus far of the difficulty difference in 16-man content I'm heavily debating bringing 1 - possibly even 2 - other Marauders for an extra Obfuscate and Bloodthirst.

 

 

Do we need work in PvP? Sure. We're absolutely perfectly fine in PvE; you can have anyone saying anything different PM me on the forums or link them to this post because they're *********** wrong, but they'll probably be too busy spamming Tracer Missile to do so.

 

 

 

 

You bloody hell know who you are.

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: gramer

Edited January 19, 2012 by Paralassa
content

[_BaconStrips_]

Not to toot my own horn but I did kind of write the book, so to speak.

 

Anyone who says Marauders are terrible, underpowered, or have no place in an Ops group 1) are completely and utterly stupid, 2) have no idea how the class works, and 3) took one look at the forums, saw all the "Marauders Suck" threads and said to hell with it.

 

You people have yourselves to blame for this.

 

 

Marauders (and, to a point, Juggernauts) are the only class that can actually provide maximum sustained DPS. We don't have a huge burn phase where we wait for things to regen. We go at it, we go at it hard, and we get **** done. Rage generation is constant and insured through Blood Frenzy and Empowerment. We build and spend while other classes spend and recharge.

 

 

On top of that Bloodthirst and Obfuscate are both incredibly, incredibly useful. Any "high-end" raid guild that doesn't bring a Marauder is missing out on those and, therefore, should not be considered a "high-end" raid guild simply because they're purposely leaving out two exceptionally beneficial abilities.

 

 

Yes, melee DPS suffers from movement -

 

Annihilation - Short fuse makes managing Fury laughable. If you have problems staying on the boss you can Predation (and also help the group) or use your amazingly more efficient close-range Charge.

 

Carnage - Defensive forms gives a whopping 15% in-combat movement bonus. It's incredibly noticeable.

 

Rage - Obliterate. 'Nuff said.

 

 

- and close range AoE damage. The AoE healing available from Sorcerers, Mercenaries and Operatives is absolutely insane. Melee groups up, Sorcerer drops Revivification, Mercenary drops a Kolto-bomb and Operatives hot up. That's on top of Shii-cho's damage reduction (Rage), Defensive Roll (Carnage), and bleed heals (Annihilation), Shii-cho and Juyo's bonuses from Defensive Forms AND Saber Ward/Cloak of Pain/Undying Rage/Medpacs.

 

 

I'm the head of my guild and the head of my raid group. My 8-man Ops team has me. From what I've heard thus far of the difficulty difference in 16-man content I'm heavily debating bringing 2 - but definitely at least 1 - other Marauder for an extra Obfuscate and Bloodthirst.

 

 

Do we need work in PvP? Sure. We're absolutely perfectly fine in PvE; you can have anyone saying anything different PM me on the forums or link them to this post because they're *********** wrong, but they'll probably be too busy spamming Tracer Missile to do so.

 

 

 

 

You bloody hell know who you are.

 

This is why language was invented.

 

9001/10 Post

Edited January 19, 2012 by Paralassa
content quote

[jellOfish]

Not to toot my own horn but I did kind of write the book, so to speak.

 

Anyone who says Marauders are terrible, underpowered, or have no place in an Ops group 1) are completely and utterly stupid, 2) have no idea how the class works, and 3) took one look at the forums, saw all the "Marauders Suck" threads and said to hell with it.

 

You people have yourselves to blame for this.

 

 

Marauders (and, to a point, Juggernauts) are the only class that can actually provide maximum sustained DPS. We don't have a huge burn phase where we wait for things to regen. We go at it, we go at it hard, and we get **** done. Rage generation is constant and insured through Blood Frenzy and Empowerment. We build and spend while other classes spend and recharge.

 

 

On top of that Bloodthirst and Obfuscate are both incredibly, incredibly useful. Any "high-end" raid guild that doesn't bring a Marauder is missing out on those and, therefore, should not be considered a "high-end" raid guild simply because they're purposely leaving out two exceptionally beneficial abilities.

 

 

Yes, melee DPS suffers from movement -

 

Annihilation - Short fuse makes managing Fury laughable. If you have problems staying on the boss you can Predation (and also help the group) or use your amazingly more efficient close-range Charge.

 

Carnage - Defensive forms gives a whopping 15% in-combat movement bonus. It's incredibly noticeable.

 

Rage - Obliterate. 'Nuff said.

 

 

- and close range AoE damage. The AoE healing available from Sorcerers, Mercenaries and Operatives is absolutely insane. Melee groups up, Sorcerer drops Revivification, Mercenary drops a Kolto-bomb and Operatives hot up. That's on top of Shii-cho's damage reduction (Rage), Defensive Roll (Carnage), and bleed heals (Annihilation), Shii-cho and Juyo's bonuses from Defensive Forms AND Saber Ward/Cloak of Pain/Undying Rage/Medpacs.

 

 

I'm the head of my guild and the head of my raid group. My 8-man Ops team has me. From what I've heard thus far of the difficulty difference in 16-man content I'm heavily debating bringing 2 - but definitely at least 1 - other Marauder for an extra Obfuscate and Bloodthirst.

 

 

Do we need work in PvP? Sure. We're absolutely perfectly fine in PvE; you can have anyone saying anything different PM me on the forums or link them to this post because they're *********** wrong, but they'll probably be too busy spamming Tracer Missile to do so.

 

 

 

 

You bloody hell know who you are.

 

This post is spot on. In PvP we need love but in PvE we are certainly more than fine.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Paralassa
content quote

[Exertim]

Not to toot my own horn but I did kind of write the book, so to speak.

 

Anyone who says Marauders are terrible, underpowered, or have no place in an Ops group 1) are completely and utterly retarded, 2) have no idea how the class works, and 3) took one look at the forums, saw all the "Marauders Suck" threads and said to hell with it.

 

You people have yourselves to blame for this.

 

 

Marauders (and, to a point, Juggernauts) are the only class that can actually provide maximum sustained DPS. We don't have a huge burn phase where we wait for things to regen. We go at it, we go at it hard, and we get **** done. Rage generation is constant and insured through Blood Frenzy and Empowerment. We build and spend while other classes spend and recharge.

 

 

On top of that Bloodthirst and Obfuscate are both incredibly, incredibly useful. Any "high-end" raid guild that doesn't bring a Marauder is missing out on those and, therefore, should not be considered a "high-end" raid guild simply because they're purposely leaving out two exceptionally beneficial abilities.

 

 

Yes, melee DPS suffers from movement -

 

Annihilation - Short fuse makes managing Fury laughable. If you have problems staying on the boss you can Predation (and also help the group) or use your amazingly more efficient close-range Charge.

 

Carnage - Defensive forms gives a whopping 15% in-combat movement bonus. It's incredibly noticeable.

 

Rage - Obliterate. 'Nuff said.

 

 

- and close range AoE damage. The AoE healing available from Sorcerers, Mercenaries and Operatives is absolutely insane. Melee groups up, Sorcerer drops Revivification, Mercenary drops a Kolto-bomb and Operatives hot up. That's on top of Shii-cho's damage reduction (Rage), Defensive Roll (Carnage), and bleed heals (Annihilation), Shii-cho and Juyo's bonuses from Defensive Forms AND Saber Ward/Cloak of Pain/Undying Rage/Medpacs.

 

 

I'm the head of my guild and the head of my raid group. My 8-man Ops team has me. From what I've heard thus far of the difficulty difference in 16-man content I'm heavily debating bringing 1 - possibly even 2 - other Marauders for an extra Obfuscate and Bloodthirst.

 

It's not that Marauders/Sentinels are bad at PvE but more that that melee in general are inferior to ranged DPS at the moment when it comes to PvE DPS. I have yet to talk to any serious HM/Nightmare mode guild that doesn't stack mostly ranged DPS; a few brings one token Marauder/Sentinel for Bloodthirst/Inspiration, but that's about it. It's as if the Bioware developers have a fetish for punishing melee players in this game while ranged suffer almost no drawbacks.

 

For example, Soa (the only fight in EV that matters, regardless of difficulty setting) places mind traps at the worst possible set locations for melee, causing us to lose considerable DPS uptime as we have to lug it to a mind trap then swap back to when his shield drops. This is made even worse due to the fact that you're unable to charge Soa in phase 3 (the burn phase), which means we lose our only gap closer (and one of our focus building abilities if you're Annihilation/Watchman). Meanwhile, ranged (mainly Gunslingers/Snipers - Sorcerers will have to shuffle around a bit for Force Lightning range) can plant themselves in one spot the entire fight and never suffer any losses to their DPS uptime on mindtraps or the boss.

 

I think people are jumping at the wrong issues, really. As a class, we're fine - Bioware just needs to review future fights so there's not such a heavy bias towards ranged DPS classes.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Exertim

[zizzo]

I am happy with my marauder as it is rly, running on annhilation spec atm. I usually get on top 5 on dmg in pvp warzone's, i can score pretty damn high on healing aswell ( with annhilation spec ofc).

 

Same goes for pve rly.. Imo we have many abilities to help out a grpmember. We have few cc's everyone knows that, but all in all i feel we have other abilitys to make up for that part.

 

Stop specing Rage and go for annhilation, its fun to see a smash crit, but thats pretty much the only thing you will achieve with a rage spec. Annhilation is 10 times better for pvp and pve imo.

Edited January 16, 2012 by zizzo

[Drathmar]

I am happy with my marauder as it is rly, running on annhilation spec atm. I usually get on top 5 on dmg in pvp warzone's, i can score pretty damn high on healing aswell ( with annhilation spec ofc).

 

Same goes for pve rly.. Imo we have many abilities to help out a grpmember. We have few cc's everyone knows that, but all in all i feel we have other abilitys to make up for that part.

 

Stop specing Rage and go for annhilation, its fun to see a smash crit, but thats pretty much the only thing you will achieve with a rage spec. Annhilation is 10 times better for pvp and pve imo.

 

I've played both Rage and Annihilation in moderate PvP gear at lvl 50, and both are completely viable in PvP, just different playstyle. Rage has a lot of advantages even without the big smash crits that people tend to overlook.

[Kibaken]

It's not that Marauders/Sentinels are bad at PvE but more that that melee in general are inferior to ranged DPS at the moment when it comes to PvE DPS. I have yet to talk to any serious HM/Nightmare mode guild that doesn't stack mostly ranged DPS; a few brings one token Marauder/Sentinel for Bloodthirst/Inspiration, but that's about it. It's as if the Bioware developers have a fetish for punishing melee players in this game while ranged suffer almost no drawbacks.

 

For example, Soa (the only fight in EV that matters, regardless of difficulty setting) places mind traps at the worst possible set locations for melee, causing us to lose considerable DPS uptime as we have to lug it to a mind trap then swap back to when his shield drops. This is made even worse due to the fact that you're unable to charge Soa in phase 3 (the burn phase), which means we lose our only gap closer (and one of our focus building abilities if you're Annihilation/Watchman). Meanwhile, ranged (mainly Gunslingers/Snipers - Sorcerers will have to shuffle around a bit for Force Lightning range) can plant themselves in one spot the entire fight and never suffer any losses to their DPS uptime on mindtraps or the boss.

 

I think people are jumping at the wrong issues, really. As a class, we're fine - Bioware just needs to review future fights so there's not such a heavy bias towards ranged DPS classes.

 

 

That has been the state of melee DPS in many games for a very, very long time and really shouldn't come to any surprise. Ranged has always just had to move out of fire and melee has always had to run around chasing after targets. The difference between ranged and melee rotations, though, is that usually melee rotations lack ramp-up time.

 

In WoW, for instance, you had an entire rotation to go through before you really got going as, let's say, a Warlock. A Warrior, though, could jump in and start wrecking ****. Coming from playing a Rogue, we struggled a bit because we always had a fair amount of ramp-up time due to poison stacking.

 

Ranged classes in ToR have to rely on their resource to recharge in order to DPS. We really don't have that much of a set-up phase. We build/spend Rage as often as we want which gives us an advantage: when we're on the boss our DPS is always optimal. Ranged classes are probably going to experience a steady rise and fall in their damage that goes along with their recharge rate.

 

That's, at least, my view on it.

 

We will have time off the boss on some fights. In order to design interesting, engaging fights that's bound to happen. It's hard to have melee do something completely separate all the time and stay "optimal."

Edited January 16, 2012 by Kibaken

[Shadinaxx]

Few things I wanna add to to what kiba is saying in regards to pve:

 

1) Our weapons base dmg is less than ranged base dmg, especially with rakata weapons, but this may get fixed, which would in turn, negate most of the arguement that our dmg is not anything spectactular compared to any other class.

 

2) Charge on SoA phase 3 is so annoying, but we can still charge the mind traps, and what I do is if there's a lightning ball near soa, pop undying rage and charge that ball (make sure you have a stimpack handy, even if you arent biochem)

 

3) With proper balance of rage builders and priority rotations, we have UNLIMITED power (this cant be stressed enough)

 

4) We scale with gear (primarilly weapons), and frankly, with the way we are limited on weapons atm, it's a no wonder we are only average on the amount of dps we can burst.