Delekii Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 As I expected. Don't look down Ahhh, the self-righteous indignation of the moral highground. Don't get me wrong; the reason I won't tell you my characters is nothing to do with morals or fear of social ostracism. It's because I don't give a damn who you are, and I don't like you. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 As I expected. (that comment about my characters being low level hurt too Don't look down They are low level. You're playing in the middle of the levelling grinder. YOUR characters are far more likely to lose out on rolls to people that are needing for companions. Because your characters are in the prime time target of the game where people constantly use their companions and would actually want to gear them up. A level 26 juggernaut? Yeah, you're gonna group with people who want to put some better items on their companions, because they have a LONG way to go. And like I said, you can search my posting history to find out my information. It's all there. But we don't play on the same server, we're not going to meet in-game. It's not worth discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBLCDiomedes Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I agree with OP in the sense that you shouldn't auto need for companion gear. However if you ask the group if anyone cares I certainly don't mind. I was helping a friend run Foundry and we let this Operative healer roll on several pieces for his companion. He asked each time. Perfectly fine with me. No one else in the group could benefit from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 It's because I don't give a damn who you are, and I don't like you. Lol. Is that your opinion or do you have facts to back that up? I'm Joking, I couldn't resist it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) I have no problems with people rolling need for companions. This game is new, it provides a new set if skills and elements to your character called the companion and gearing them up is just as important as gearing up your main toon. It is a different design then games in the past, so for many the old definition of "need" needs to change. There is by no means a universal definition of need, so do not expect anyone in your group to believe the same way as you do, set the rules for need before you begin your adventure. Edited January 15, 2012 by Vydor_HC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Ahhh, the self-righteous indignation of the moral highground. Don't get me wrong; the reason I won't tell you my characters is nothing to do with morals or fear of social ostracism. It's because I don't give a damn who you are, and I don't like you. Lol. As I expected (lol). But I think the real reason you won't is because you're afraid, and you want to stay in hiding, and I don't blame you. Don't look down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 BW really should have foreseen this problem and instituted 'Companion Only' gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falkerman Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Aha, he mentioned the 'greed' word. By you trying to force your accepted loot rules on me and take away my rights, means that in fact, it is you who is being greedy. Calling you greedy isn't taking away the "rights" you falsely believe you're entitled to. It's merely observing your behavior and making a judgement based on that. Make every argument you want (and I see at least 2-3 of these threads a DAY about this), because I've heard them all, and none of them excuse that greedy behavior. Players actually playing in the Flashpoint ALWAYS get loot priority over players or companions who are NOT in the Flashpoint. Plain and simple. I don't care if you believe the companion is an extension of you, or whatever your delusional head believes. When 4 people collectively take down a boss and are rewarded loot, THOSE PEOPLE are entitled to that loot before a companion who DID NOT take down that boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 As I expected (lol). But I think the real reason you won't is because you're afraid, and you want to stay in hiding, and I don't blame you. Don't look down Geez, this is so silly. Someone just told you out straight they don't like you. And you come and disagree with them? That's just head-banging stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmud Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Make the game so it isnt a single player game for 90% of the time and you got a deal! Wouldnt roll on oranges or greater for my companion , but still green crap sure why not. As I said fix the single player part and this wouldnt be a problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 BW really should have foreseen this problem and instituted 'Companion Only' gear. I agree, there should never have been a need button. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazysam Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Because you said so.. Riiight.... Well GL finding groups!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrLeeNOR Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) I have no problems with people rolling need for companions. This game is new, it provides a new set if skills and elements to your character called the companion and gearing them up is just as important as gearing up your main toon. It is a different design then games in the past, so for many the old definition of "need" needs to change. There is by no means a universal definition of need, so do not expect anyone in your group to believe the same way as you do, set the rules for need before you begin your adventure. Actually, there sort of is. At least, if you've ever played a MMO before. The rules may be unwritten, but they are there. People who are going to use the gear for good effect > offspec/alt/companion. That being said, people need to learn to play nice and not throw a fit over what could be an honest mistake by someone who has never picked up an MMO before but did for TOR because of the IP involved. Consider this, as I am sure it has been mentioned before. If everyone was going to roll need for alts/companions, we'd not need the roll buttons at all, because everyone basically needs everything for various companions/alts. Bottom line, only roll Need if you're going to use it yourself on the character that is playing. Or at least check with the others if they are ok with it befor rolling. Edited January 15, 2012 by MrLeeNOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eswopikafa Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) This is why I don't join pugs. They are generally filled with little Napoleans and elitist type "uber" gamers, both of which I have no time for in my life. Grouping with friends for the win. Edited January 15, 2012 by Eswopikafa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Make the game so it isnt a single player game for 90% of the time and you got a deal! Wouldnt roll on oranges or greater for my companion , but still green crap sure why not. As I said fix the single player part and this wouldnt be a problem! Wait. People are creating these threads because they're losing rolls on GREEN Items? Please tell me that isn't so. I've thought all of this had to do with purples and oranges and the like. This complaining is about greens? God I hope that's not true. I don't even remember the last Green Item I rolled "need" on in a group. Maybe like 20 levels ago, for like an ear slot? I thought this entire line of thread after thread was about loot that mattered. Not greens. Edited January 15, 2012 by SnoggyMack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurugeorge Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Why would BioWare implement a Need/Greed system at all? The objective fact is that it's a 2 tiered system. Need rolls have a higher chance of winning than Greed rolls. It's therefore vanishingly unlikely that it's not objective fact that BioWare put this in the game because it's a traditional mechanism, that relies on players' honesty, to give people whose characters contributed to winning whatever it is (e.g. an instnace) a higher chance of winning a roll than people who don't need it for their character, but would be likely merely sell the gear. None of that has anything to do with subjectivity or any sort of morality about which one might argue: it's the system that's in the game, and that's how it's meant to be used. So the only matter left for debate is whether alts or companions count as characters included in the remit. It should be obvious that the "Need" instance reward ought to be for THE CHARACTER WHO CONTRIBUTED TO WINNING THE INSTANCE. So alts are out. Anyone who rolls for their alt is properly called a "nijna looter" and ought to be blacklisted as a selfish, inconsiderate player. But with regard to Companions, the matter is slightly different. Again, it should be obvious that IF YOUR COMPANION CONTRIBUTED TO WINNING THE INSTANCE, then their gear should be included in your gear, because that Companion's play is part of your play, they are under your control, and you contrtibuted to winning the instance, through that character. If it was a 4 man team and Companions were not involved, then your Companion is equivalent to an alt - i.e. IF YOUC COMPANION DID NOT CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS WINNING THE INSTANCE, then they are equivalent to an alt, and therefore if you roll Need for your not-present Companion, you are a ninja looter and ought to be blacklisted as a selfish, inconsiderate player. There, simples. Edited January 15, 2012 by gurugeorge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Actually, there sort of is. At least, if you've ever played a MMO before. The rules may be unwritten, but they are there. People who are going to use the gear for good effect > offspec/alt/companion. That being said, people need to learn to play nice and not throw a fit over what could be an honest mistake by someone who has never picked up an MMO before but did for TOR because of the IP involved. Consider this, as I am sure it has been mentioned before. If everyone was going to roll need for alts/companions, we'd not need the roll buttons at all, because everyone basically needs everything for various companions/alts. Bottom line, only roll Need if you're going to use it yourself on the character that is playing. Or at least check with the others if they are ok with it befor rolling. I don't agree. I believe I should play how I want to play not how someone who accepted some concocted get-easyier-loot scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaxitov Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Anyone saying its ok to roll against another on gear they would use for their actual character for companion gear instead should sign that statement with the name of their main character, server they play, and guild they are in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Why would BioWare implement a Need/Greed system at all? The objective fact is that it's a 2 tiered system. Need rolls have a higher chance of winning than Greed rolls. It's therefore vanishingly unlikely that it's not objective fact that BioWare put this in the game because it's a traditional mechanism, that relies on players' honesty, to give people whose characters contributed to winning whatever it is (e.g. an instnace) a higher chance of winning a roll than people who don't need it for their character, but would be likely merely sell the gear. None of that has anything to do with subjectivity or any sort of morality about which one might argue: it's the system that's in the game, and that's how it's meant to be used. So the only matter left for debate is whether alts or companions count as characters included in the remit. It should be obvious that the "Need" instance reward ought to be for THE CHARACTER WHO CONTRIBUTED TO WINNING THE INSTANCE. So alts are out. Anyone who rolls for their alt is properly called a "nijna looter" and ought to be blacklisted as a selfish, inconsiderate player. But with regard to Companions, the matter is slightly different. Again, it should be obvious that IF YOUR COMPANION CONTRIBUTED TO WINNING THE INSTANCE, then their gear should be included in your gear, because that Companion's play is part of your play, they are under your control, and you contrtibuted to winning the instance, through that character. If it was a 4 man team and Companions were not involved, then your Companion is equivalent to an alt - i.e. IF YOUC COMPANION DID NOT CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS WINNING THE INSTANCE, then they are equivalent to an alt, and therefore if you roll Need for your not-present Companion, you are a ninja looter and ought to be blacklisted as a selfish, inconsiderate player. There, simples. That entire post is opinion and has no basis in fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Actually, there sort of is. At least, if you've ever played a MMO before. The rules may be unwritten, but they are there. People who are going to use the gear for good effect > offspec/alt/companion. That being said, people need to learn to play nice and not throw a fit over what could be an honest mistake by someone who has never picked up an MMO before but did for TOR because of the IP involved. Consider this, as I am sure it has been mentioned before. If everyone was going to roll need for alts/companions, we'd not need the roll buttons at all, because everyone basically needs everything for various companions/alts. Bottom line, only roll Need if you're going to use it yourself on the character that is playing. Or at least check with the others if they are ok with it befor rolling. No, there is not universal rule. A universal rule would mean everyone agrees upon it. And that is not the case. In fact, it's never been the case. There has been a majority acceptance throughout the years that equipping takes precedence, butit's never been universal. And that old definition of equipping on the main, is being challenged by the design of this game. There are people, such as myself, that used to agree upon the old paradigm of equipping for man, and in fact in a way still do, but the companion is part of that main, so needing for them is just as valid. And as more people come around to that realization, and not the old way of viewing things more people will re-evaluate the way they look at the etiquette for need rolling. Edited January 15, 2012 by Vydor_HC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Anyone saying its ok to roll against another on gear they would use for their actual character for companion gear instead should sign that statement with the name of their main character, server they play, and guild they are in. So you want me to play how you want and now you want statements of intent. Are for real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Seriously folks, if you want to roll need on greens, then it's ME you need to be grouping with. You can roll need all day on every single green item that drops. The credits we split for the kills alone mean I can purchase probably the exact same item in the GTN or a random green from a vendor just as easily when we're done. That probably explains why my being a jerk doesn't affect my ability to group. I'm not competing for greens with you all. Edited January 15, 2012 by SnoggyMack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Wait. People are creating these threads because they're losing rolls on GREEN Items? Please tell me that isn't so. I've thought all of this had to do with purples and oranges and the like. This complaining is about greens? God I hope that's not true. Why are you trying to be such a jerk? To you and the 2 other people who keep trying to defend the insanity and the thievery: ok. The rest of us have heard you. Cool. We know where you're coming from. It's a shame you won't tell us who you are, but none of our business, I concede that. Until you steal from someone who takes offense to it. I edited my OP to add a restatement of what I believe, which is that this kind of behaviour will be detrimental to you in the long run. Just an opinion. There's nothing to argue here. Don't look down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Why are you trying to be such a jerk? To you and the 2 other people who keep trying to defend the insanity and the thievery: ok. winning a roll is NOT thievery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaxitov Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) This is why I don't join pugs. They are generally filled with little Napoleans and elitist type "uber" gamers, both of which I have no time for in my life. Grouping with friends for the win. If you're rolling against your "friends" actual characters for the sake of your companion's gear, then I'm sure the pugs thank you for not joining. Edited January 15, 2012 by Vlaxitov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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