evil-bob Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Do not roll "Need" for companion gear. Period. This is wrong. set loot rules up before hand This is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Yes, morals are subjective, so what? It still doesn't change the fact that morals affect everyone's choices, and what goes on in the world. This can be proven through WoW when they implemented the roll device (forget what it's called). Now players in WoW could only roll on items that they could use. Why was this implemented? Because players, using their morals, indicated that it was wrong to ninja or roll need on items that they couldn't use.Awesome, does that mean we are going to get a cross server lfd, lfr, and so fourth as well? Because there are a whole heap of decisions made in WoW that I really hope get made here too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Off topic? And link? I'm calling you out - are you afraid to say your toon names and server? Oddeye - lvl 35 Sage, The Jekk Jekk Tarr Wilco - lvl 17 Gunslinger, The Jekk Jekk Tarr Mcwild - lvl 26 Jugg, The Jekk Jekk Tarr Originally Posted by WizzyWarlock (reposted without permission): "I worry about the future of MMO players when the majority of posters here seem to be supporting the 'need for companions' idea. If people don't come first in your view and you can rationalise taking something from someone as 'personal use' then I pity you, or actually I pity your RL friends. If you have any. A companion is a computer generated non-player character that has no feelings or desires. A person, on the other hand, does, and when that person is able to win a piece of gear that would significantly enhance his character then he gets a little excited. Then you come along, a person who can't use it but whose companion can, and takes that item from him claiming that you can use it. No, you can't use, your soulless unfeeling binary generated npc can use it. You've just hurt someones feelings over greed and the complete lack of consideration for your fellow man. Way to go!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plosky Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Awesome, does that mean we are going to get a cross server lfd, lfr, and so fourth as well? Because there are a whole heap of decisions made in WoW that I really hope get made here too! Who knows? I wasn't comparing WoW to SWTOR, but was simply using it as an example for how morals affected a video game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilidea Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Awesome, does that mean we are going to get a cross server lfd, lfr, and so fourth as well? Because there are a whole heap of decisions made in WoW that I really hope get made here too! Quoted for the lulz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 When that loot box comes up I have the right to press whatever button I want to press. And hard as it is for you accept, you can do nothing about it,a and it is none of your business. I earned the right by helping the group, to get to that button selection. Why you think you have some god given right to somehow increase your chance of winning is beyond me. Sure I can. Don't follow my rules and you get a kick and blacklisted. Once we have server forums (or group forum or whatever they are putting in place) up goes your name so folks know not to group with you. See you talking in General looking for group. Respond to people not to group with you. Can you do what you want? Yup. Are there consequences? Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Yes, morals are subjective, so what? It still doesn't change the fact that morals affect everyone's choices, and what goes on in the world. This is completely false. Your morals do not effect me any more than mine effect you, unless you allow mine to effect you. Your morals state you don't press need under some situations that you have arbitrarily agreed to. Do you see it effecting me in any way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I'm calling you out - are you afraid to say your toon names and server? Oddeye - lvl 35 Sage, The Jekk Jekk Tarr Wilco - lvl 17 Gunslinger, The Jekk Jekk Tarr Mcwild - lvl 26 Jugg, The Jekk Jekk Tarr I don't play on your server, and your highest level character is too low to matter. You can search my posting history to find my information out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfatcheric Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Now imagine if everyone just rolled need instead of using dkp. People gotta disenchant right? No one thats rolling need for a companion would argue with this logic. It's you who has this golden set of rules on what should and shouldn't be needed on, and by whom. It almost seems like a lot of rules that just ensure that its easier for YOU to get gear... You sound like the greedy one to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlocc Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Oh I disagree with that assessment sooooooo so much. Loot drama is coming. The examples I cite will make their way into the forums. DPS is DPS is DPS. And most guild leaders realize that you depend far more on your healers than you do on DPS. So if the healer has the DKP ... it's not at all as easy a decision as you make it out to be. Having dedicated and skilled healers for end-game content is something all guilds depend on. Losing them to gear up yet another button mashing pew pew DPS monkey? Yeah, it's not at all the easy decision you seem to think it is. No matter how important tanks and healers are, we still need DPS to kill the bad guys. And we need X amount of them to do it. More than that, a lot of boss battles have timers of some kind, that require the DPS to kill 'em and kill 'em fast. They need gear for that. If they're never getting gear in our raids because the healer (or tank, or raid leader-whoever) keeps taking all the gear "for the mods", they're going to look for another guild. I would think. If you are in a guild that makes a common practice of that, how do you keep members? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Sure I can. Don't follow my rules and you get a kick and blacklisted. Once we have server forums (or group forum or whatever they are putting in place) up goes your name so folks know not to group with you. See you talking in General looking for group. Respond to people not to group with you. Can you do what you want? Yup. Are there consequences? Yup. That's all based on your assumption that you have me in your group. And if you tell me when I join that you are dictating how I roll, well then you are going to be told where to stick your group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plosky Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 This is completely false. Your morals do not effect me any more than mine effect you, unless you allow mine to effect you. Your morals state you don't press need under some situations that you have arbitrarily agreed to. Do you see it effecting me in any way? Umm, I wasn't saying that my morals, and mine alone affect everything in the world, which apparently you've somehow gleaned from my post. I was saying that morals themselves affect the world, which can be seen through my previous explanation of how they affected WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecclesiarch Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Since you want to dictate my decision on Need and Greed, can you come to my house and push my attack buttons too? I thought maybe since I pushed buttons to help down the boss I could make my own decisions on what will help my character, which might include a companion who helps me get things done in the 99% of the content that doesn't require 3 other players. You are the selfish player, the one who is all jealous because someone else wanted something YOU thought YOU deserved. Please do put me on ignore. You shouldn't be allowed to play multiplayer games. A companion got like ... what, 20% of an actual players performance? By that logic, an item with 100 [mainstat] drops, each point of that grants you 1 additional dps (living in a wonderful world where everyone is dps and nobody needs tanks and healers) - so this item would grant your companion 20 dps and someone else in your group 100 additional dps. You're saying you'd roll need on that because it would give you a MINOR increase in dps - and not even that, it would just give you a minor increase in DPS in different situations, this item upgrade would be completely worthless to your current group - whereas someone else could hugely benefit from just that item. Please, go and play any singleplayer game that doesn't fail to mention you're the hero about 500 times per hour (ironically enough SWTORs storyline does that too, maybe that's why so many selfish idiots feel attracted to the game), clearly multiplayer gaming is not for you. - Ecc Edited January 15, 2012 by Ecclesiarch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Why would I tell you when it is oh so much more fun for you to never know if I'm going to be in your flashpoints stealin' your lootz, or something like that. Go you! Do your really think people are going to post their toons and servers? Di you need my mobile # and home address too? Maybe my shoe size? As I expected. Don't look down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I'm calling you out - are you afraid to say your toon names and server? Oddeye - lvl 35 Sage, The Jekk Jekk Tarr Wilco - lvl 17 Gunslinger, The Jekk Jekk Tarr Mcwild - lvl 26 Jugg, The Jekk Jekk Tarr What has fear got to do with it? What benefit can be gained by any one of us telling you our characters? Lol. GIVE ME A MILLION DOLLARS! Are you afraid to give me a million dollars? Originally Posted by WizzyWarlock (reposted without permission): "I worry about the future of MMO players when the majority of posters here seem to be supporting the 'need for companions' idea. If people don't come first in your view and you can rationalise taking something from someone as 'personal use' then I pity you, or actually I pity your RL friends. If you have any. A companion is a computer generated non-player character that has no feelings or desires. A person, on the other hand, does, and when that person is able to win a piece of gear that would significantly enhance his character then he gets a little excited. Then you come along, a person who can't use it but whose companion can, and takes that item from him claiming that you can use it. No, you can't use, your soulless unfeeling binary generated npc can use it. You've just hurt someones feelings over greed and the complete lack of consideration for your fellow man. Way to go!" Your armor doesn't have feelings either. Both your armor and your character affect your performance in this video game. Your "souless companion" injects more character into the game than a piece of cloth or a lightsaber. Ultimately, if we reduced the game to a spreadsheet, and referenced every aspect of what makes the total of character performance, gear would be a, companions (and their gear) would be b, and the sum of the parts would make up the total. Upgrading companions IS upgrading your character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 That's all based on your assumption that you have me in your group. And if you tell me when I join that you are dictating how I roll, well then you are going to be told where to stick your group. Fair enough then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazysam Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Since you want to dictate my decision on Need and Greed, can you come to my house and push my attack buttons too? I thought maybe since I pushed buttons to help down the boss I could make my own decisions on what will help my character, which might include a companion who helps me get things done in the 99% of the content that doesn't require 3 other players. You are the selfish player, the one who is all jealous because someone else wanted something YOU thought YOU deserved. Please do put me on ignore. Was your companion participating in the encounter? If the answer is no, you should not Need roll for your companion, If the answer if yes, you are allowed to Need roll for him/her. I dont understand how some poeple dont get that. If your in my group and you Need roll for a companion that was not participating in the "flashpoint", im advertising the general chat about you ninja looting. Most poeple playing the game have played one before and know the unwritten "Need vs Greed" rule. Edited January 15, 2012 by crazysam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 I don't play on your server, and your highest level character is too low to matter. You can search my posting history to find my information out. As I expected. (that comment about my characters being low level hurt too Don't look down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaxitov Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I don't need to justify it, since I can do it. I'm pointing out that there is a range between 0 and 100% for pressing the Need button. How many times do you think you will do it before pugs just aren't an option for your character unless you reroll another name? You're a perfect illustration of why adding an auto grouping feature would ruin this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Umm, I wasn't saying that my morals, and mine alone affect everything in the world, which apparently you've somehow gleaned from my post. I was saying that morals themselves affect the world, which can be seen through my previous explanation of how they affected WoW. They effect the people allowing them to be effected. Because every child on wow agreed with some hair-brained scheme that allowed people to have a better chance at winning loot rolls was accepted by them, does in no way mean that it should or will be allowed to, carry over ToR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxetius Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I can and will and you can't stop me. Ooooh I'm scared of being ignored or booted... I'll just run with my guild. Boo hoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 No matter how important tanks and healers are, we still need DPS to kill the bad guys. And we need X amount of them to do it. DPS is the most easily replacable, easily interchangable aspect of a guild. They're always the most popular classes, so it's not hard to find more DPS. Skilled healers? If they're never getting gear in our raids because the healer (or tank, or raid leader-whoever) keeps taking all the gear "for the mods", they're going to look for another guild. Nobody said they're never getting gear. Loot drama doesn't crop up from a class never getting geared up. It crops up from ONE person losing out on an item they feel they were entitled to. Which is why it resonates with this thread. Wether the OP loses a roll or later loses a DKP bid, they're going to throw a hissy fit. This isn't something that happens in a vaccuum. It could be the fourth boss kill of the night. And the OP didn't have the DKP to bid on the other three items that dropped, and finally wants to bid on the fourth, but the healer wants the item instead, and viola, loot drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 No matter how important tanks and healers are, we still need DPS to kill the bad guys. And we need X amount of them to do it. More than that, a lot of boss battles have timers of some kind, that require the DPS to kill 'em and kill 'em fast. They need gear for that. If they're never getting gear in our raids because the healer (or tank, or raid leader-whoever) keeps taking all the gear "for the mods", they're going to look for another guild. I would think. If you are in a guild that makes a common practice of that, how do you keep members? Actually in this game DPS has a heightened sense of importance since the main endgame mechanic is the enrage timer. Hell, you have Ops groups now going without a tank because they need the extra DPS slot to beat the timer. If anything DPS is more important than ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Was your companion participating in the encounter? If the answer is no, you should not Need roll for your companion, If the answer if yes, you are allowed to Need roll for him/her. Because you said so.. Riiight.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zortezurtek Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 My opinion on this is solely based on the first few pages that I read. A lot of people replied about the OP dictating what they should do and stuff like that. I think what the OP means is that it in standart MMO it is unethical to take something to yourself or your alt (companion added with SwToR) when someone else in the group has a need for it. That's the way I remember it, that's the way I played it. People can have differing opinions of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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