Jaliyah Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 When I think of tanks I don't just think of them getting and holding aggro, but also them being able to take damage. From what I've seen so far tank companions have got the first one down but suck at the second. Him holding the aggro doesn't do me much good if all those mobs beating up on him kill him in 5 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketeerabc Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Its situational, really. Yes threat is very important, but not necessarily. For example if after CC there is only one strong mob remaining, you only need single target threat and the best form of single target threat is DPS(cause it means the fight is shorter which means less time for something to go horribly wrong). Im not saying never use a tank companion, but its very situational. Basicly you only use them for their taunts, and usually you only need taunts if a) you can't CC a specific mob or b) you want to AoE. Healing threat after all only really matters to the mobs your DPS companion is not actively attacking and those should be either CC or < Strong. The thing is, against a strong group in a duo team i have to heal anyway, and its easier to heal two dps companions(heavy armor) taking damage from one elite each, than one tank companion taking damage of 2 elite. There is just alot more HP involved, giving me more time to react. Also DPS companions like aric jordan have a 50% damage shield for 15sec, while "true" tank companions only have a 25% for 12 sec one, combine that with actually finishing the fight quicker its imho often easier. Not always mind you, but about 90% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dargor- Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Its been confirmed that even in best gear companion tanks lack around 20% mitigation compared to player tanks, except assassins who are also lacking mitigation compared to warriors/BHs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckRogerss Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 khem val disagrees You don't hate if its not Age of Conan also!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 M1-4X has better gear than my commando and less damage reduction. I'm in mostly greens and he's in mostly blues because I know cybertech. Hitpoints are virtually the same. If it's a weak hit he might be able to take one more hit than me, but even that is unlikely. What kind of "tank" has the same HP and less armor than a healer/DPS class with worse gear?! I get that tank companions were OP in beta, but that doesn't mean they needed to make them completely worthless. You are doing something wrong if you can't get through content with your companion. All my companions are adequate for the game. My tanks tank well enough, my healers heal well enough, my dps do well enough to level. Are you trying to do two player heroics with you and your pet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephendrine Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 People are obviously starting to run out of things to QQ about. It's desperation time for the whiners and trolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarbonzotheDude Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 /shrug I love my tank companion. I prefer him over my other ones hands down. Hell...even used him in some 4 mans since we couldn't find a fourth member or a tank. To be honest he does better than most player tanks I've encountered in this game anyways XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketeerabc Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Its been confirmed that even in best gear companion tanks lack around 20% mitigation compared to player tanks, except assassins who are also lacking mitigation compared to warriors/BHs In the exact same gear they lack atleast 40% armor, and thats only if the player tank didn't take ANY talents improving armor or mitigation. Infact if we include active abilities i would be very surprised if it was "only" 20% mitigation. Maybe vs an tankclass without any skillpoints, or maybe that figure is from beta before they axed the +60% armor from companions tank toggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocNessMonster Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 The point of the tank companion is to keep aggro off you so you can blast away at full DPS. A DPS companion may put out more raw damage than a tank companion, but they're also not going to be holding aggro either, and the moment you toss out a heal, everything your companion isn't attacking is going to lock in on you. Also, it's been stated that if you really want to buff your companion, you pick up Presence on your gear. So instead of pissing and moaning about your companion having mitigation only slightly better than yours (I'm sorry, but both of you wear heavy armor, so no **** your mitigation is going to be approximately equal), remind yourself what their role is. TL;DR - A tank's job is not to deal damage, it's to hold threat. If he's doing that, then he's doing his job. Stop complaining. Yeah if your tank pet is dying, your just not killing it efficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerkat Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Khem Val became useless for my sorcerer as soon as she hit level 30. It doesn't matter what kind of gear he wears, he cannot take any kind of hit. The deal is, he is supposed to take the hits while my sorcerer (healing spec) can DPS while throwing him a heal or two. What really happens is that my character spends all her time healing Khem and trying to keep static barrier on him. Since Khem doesn't DPS that well, fights take FOREVER. Ultimately, I threw Khem out and now use Andronicus. It turns out my healer sorcerer can tank better than Khem. I don't think that should be the case, but it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakos Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Love it when class-specific problems lead to sweeping generalizations. I, as a sorcerer, continued to use Khem Val well after I got most of my other companions. I feel like each class has one or two companions that seem unusually weak or are ridiculously difficult to gear compared to their counterparts, which suggests BioWare to some companion re-balancing per-class. I'd also suggest they, during their content updates, add in more Companions and Companion stories throughout the storyline rather than tack them on after 50. While it was nice, as a Sorcerer, to start off with Khem Val, every Assassin I know wishes they had a healing companion that wasn't 2V-R8, the obnoxious healer droid that came with zero gear. Edited January 15, 2012 by Drakos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyte-Knyght Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 my issue is healing companion, as a shadow tank ive started to get really pissed at my companion not healing me despite being on healing stance and my life sub 30%, he just shoots at mobs... starting to consider manually using his healing skills, just unsure how to direct his heals to me Interesting, are you using Combat Technique? I haven't had any issues with Tharan<sp?> keeping me alive...I pretty much used him constantly until I got my last companion, but still call him in when fighting Elites... I wish that Zenith and the trooper weren't so useless...it's pretty annoying to have to recharge my health after every 4 minion group battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketeerabc Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) @Drakos: Thats easily explained, Sith Inquisitors lack any kind of Heavy armor DPS. Andronikos, Ashara and Talos are all Medium Armor. Compare that to the Trooper, where every single companion wears heavy armor ... Yeah your non tank companions are going to appear squishy. Edited January 15, 2012 by rocketeerabc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyTallman Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Dunno if it has been mentioned, but tank companions are probably top tier for world pvp. Taunt is more effective than heals or damage. 30% damage reduction followed by them being able to wail on your opponent is great. Heals are sub par as your companion, when healing, is not damaging and is easily interupted. Taunt is a static damage reduction that basically translates into a guaranteed hp boost. Granted, not everyone plays on a pvp server, still worth noting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gartock Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I play a scoundrel, split spec between healer and dps. I use Corso Riggs, the ranged tank companion, exclusively and it works just fine. Versus 3-4 normal mobs my level I dont have to heal him, and he keeps aggro. Vs a single Strong enemy i dont have to heal if i keep up my own dps, vs 2 strong I will heal and dps. Vs 1 Elite I will mostly heal and throw in dps when he is high on hitpoints. I have no complaints . Ive geared him up every chanse I get, often taking small upgrades for him over badges as quest rewards, and using badges for gear for him when available. He uses several orange items that i keep updated with new mods etc. He has quite a lot more hitpoints than my healer/dps character and much better damage mitigation. When I get aggro from mobs I die *much* more quickly than he does, thats for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faldian Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I'm finding my Khem Val completely useless for my story missioins these days. I either have to babysit him (and struggle to keep him alive with heals) while he doesn't do enough damage to finish off the guys I'm fighting. Or try to fight off the guys while he dies in 3 hits and then have them come and destroy me. Doesn't help that all his most useful abilities cancel my crowd control and aggro the entire room. And, if I turn them off, he turns them back on all by himself. Funny how he can't take a hit to save his life, but he knows how to turn whatever ability he feels like having on back on. Often times I feel like he's running into a mob screaming, "I'm butter! Come stick your hot knife through me!!!" as I plead, "Oh God noo... Khem please don't do that!" I end up just using my healer companion, since he takes the same amount of hits and can heal himself a little bit while taking the hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketeerabc Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Dunno if it has been mentioned, but tank companions are probably top tier for world pvp. Taunt is more effective than heals or damage. 30% damage reduction followed by them being able to wail on your opponent is great. Heals are sub par as your companion, when healing, is not damaging and is easily interupted. Taunt is a static damage reduction that basically translates into a guaranteed hp boost. Granted, not everyone plays on a pvp server, still worth noting. I think that only applies to player taunts, atleast there is no mention in the companions tunt TT about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathla Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Kaliyo is great for me! Just hit the AH every few levels for some upgrades for her when the comendation vendor doesn't give me anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visinji Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 OP is forgetting to consider that there is more to tanking than damage reduction (plus the fact he's not taking companion's shields into account).... threat... you're forgetting about threat. Hotkeyed properly a tank companion in my experience holds aggro / threat on enemies than the majority of player tanks (cus they're dumb / lazy / ignorant)... can they mitigate damage like a player tank? No. But they mitigate damage well enough if healed by a dedicated player healer (scoundrel / sage specd for healing). 4 man heroics are easily doable with 2 players using companions so long as 1 of the players is a competent heal spec and brings a well geared tank companion... it's often easier than a full 4 man team simply because there's so many stupid tank players who let the healer get mangled to death and have no clue how to hold threat on enemies... a healer managing their own tank companion can keep all the aggro of every mob on the tank companion and just spam heal it to victory every time. I wouldn't really try it in Flashpoints, but heroics? It's actually preferable most of the time to work with only 2 or 3 players and let the healer use their tank companion instead. ^^^ /agree As a full commando-heal spec, I've used and outfitted MX since my lower levels. I'm a few levels under 50 now and he still rocks. I solo play alot and never really run into any issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackobite Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 People are obviously starting to run out of things to QQ about. It's desperation time for the whiners and trolls. and its ok for fanboys to wade into a discussion and troll anything that could be construed as negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morporkia Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I play as a healer, and Qyzen/Iresso do their job; hit 50 recently, and didn't have any problems throughout the leveling experience. They're mostly geared in what I picked up through quests, the occasional flashpoint, and commendation gear if I had any commendations left over. I'm definitely better geared than they are. Just CC when needed, interrupt the big damage abilities, kill enemies in order of weakness and focus on healing when the companion's getting burst down by multiple enemies. Don't expect to brute force everything down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrmexaw Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 the companion tanks suffer the same fate as the tank player ... mitigation stack are so unfair compared to how quick healer and dps gain stats. It's better to gear up power than defensive stats until you get to hardmode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mineria Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 the companion tanks suffer the same fate as the tank player ... mitigation stack are so unfair compared to how quick healer and dps gain stats. It's better to gear up power than defensive stats until you get to hardmode. I'm playing a lot with a friend on my tank, doing all the heroics together without huge issues, except one nasty thing we entered on Alderan some time ago, but that has more to do with the spawn rate than class stats. As for the companions, as long as we talk Heroic +2 they work fine if you remember to keep the buffs up and do some CC before sending them in.. something you should do with a real tank anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Blizz does just fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaegaknight Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Tank Companions are not meant to replace Tank players. That said they do wonders for single player content at even level. Its when you push over your level or try to use then in 2+ and 4 heroics as a replacement for a real tank that they start to fall flat. They're not meant to replace tanks, but I don't think they're mean to be utterly worthless. Both Kaliyo and SCOROPIO, with decent gear, die entirely too fast. A group one normal and one silver shouldn't be slicing through my tank like butter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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