Not all of us are healers!!

[Scilent]

In game, LFG for heroics or flashpoints, I'll advertise myself as a "lvl ______ TK sage."

 

Sometimes I'll even make it easy for the poor folks out there that don't know what "TK" means and say, "Lvl ______ DPS Sage LFG!"

 

I'll get invited, and inevitably, during the flashpoint or heroic, these other jedi will just jump into a frying pan, and be yelling, "Heal!! Heal!! WTH!!"

 

Well... being a full TK sage (to this point at least), I'm not built to be a healer!! If I get the least bit of attention from a mob after doing a little healing on one of the above mentioned jedi, the pushback from the blaster fire I get, keeps me from healing anyone! But they leap directly onto three elite mobs and expect me to pull their butts out of the fire. <sigh>

 

And while I'm on the subject of being frustrated... here's another thing.....

 

Nobody seems to understand CC. I'll force lift a mob, and people will just let the AOE's fly! Heck, I've even run across other sages that don't know what Force lift is for, and I've met commandos that will scratch their heads if you mention their CC ability... concussion shot or something like that.

 

I don't know, perhaps swtor has a lot of new MMO players, that just don't understand these things yet, and I try to be patient and teach them, but it's still frustrating.

 

I've been playing MMO's since the first EQ came out. It's second nature to me.

 

Guess I need to just stand back and count to 10, and take it all as it comes. Perhaps mobs should be a little tougher (in heroics and flashpoints) to force people to "think" before "force leaping" into everything that moves.

 

My 2 cents..... which is about all it's worth.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Scilent

[Qilue]

Playing a consular myself, I had to relearn CC'ed mod avoidance.

 

But, many players are from WoW where CC didn't matter much or wasn't even used. Many people also don't understand that both consular ACs have a 1 minute CC, but only the sage's can be cast in combat. Of course, there are some players that are too stupid and lazy to care about the other people in their group.

[TaintedSquirrel]

You'll probably get focused in warzones because you look like a healer, too.

Though it probably depends what clothes you're wearing... Some kinds of robes all look the same.

 

But if you look like a "Sage" caster, everyone assumes you're healing.

A while ago, I asked about TK vs Balance on Coruscant and everybody scoffed at me, that the only good Sages were healers.

 

So I think everyone just assumes you're healing. Meh.

[Deedre]

Yeah, WoW aoe tanking has ruined a lot of players. That kind of ez mode no CC tanking doesn't fly here. (Didn't use to fly in Wow, either. At least through TBC you had to CC mobs in 5 mans. Wrath changed that up and went with the present brainless aoe tanking.)

[cylria]

Sounds like your problem is one of communication.

 

If your team is in combat before they find out you're not a healer, then you probably should have mentioned that earlier. Before the fighting starts find out who's healing, who's tanking, and if anyone can back up those two roles.

 

The same with CC. It requires some coordination before hand. Killings the enemy is the best kind of CC, so lots of area effect attacks on groups of weaker enemies can be a valid strategy depending on the team's abilities. Establish before hand when CC will be used and use enemy markers when possible.

 

don't expect players who probably never played your class to understand how it works.

[Scilent]

Sounds like your problem is one of communication.

 

If your team is in combat before they find out you're not a healer, then you probably should have mentioned that earlier. Before the fighting starts find out who's healing, who's tanking, and if anyone can back up those two roles.

 

The same with CC. It requires some coordination before hand. Killings the enemy is the best kind of CC, so lots of area effect attacks on groups of weaker enemies can be a valid strategy depending on the team's abilities. Establish before hand when CC will be used and use enemy markers when possible.

 

don't expect players who probably never played your class to understand how it works.

 

Yeah.... talk about communication! LOL! What part of the first few sentances didn't you get? Here... I'll post them again... <sigh>

 

"In game, LFG for heroics or flashpoints, I'll advertise myself as a "lvl ______ TK sage."

 

Sometimes I'll even make it easy for the poor folks out there that don't know what "TK" means and say, "Lvl ______ DPS Sage LFG!"

 

I'll get invited, and inevitably, during the flashpoint or heroic, these other jedi will just jump into a frying pan, and be yelling, "Heal!! Heal!! WTH!!"

 

And as far as communication on CC.... these jedi don't even give you a chance to explain or talk about anything... for the most part, not to over generalize. They'll force leap right into a situation without considering what they're doing, and expect me to completely save the day against 3+ elites!

Edited January 15, 2012 by Scilent

[Sweetsquad]

Sounds like your problem is one of communication.

 

If your team is in combat before they find out you're not a healer, then you probably should have mentioned that earlier. Before the fighting starts find out who's healing, who's tanking, and if anyone can back up those two roles.

 

The same with CC. It requires some coordination before hand. Killings the enemy is the best kind of CC, so lots of area effect attacks on groups of weaker enemies can be a valid strategy depending on the team's abilities. Establish before hand when CC will be used and use enemy markers when possible.

 

don't expect players who probably never played your class to understand how it works.

 

Since I started out as a Jedi Sage, I automatically think that all consular's are healers. It's a simple mistake for some. They can either not see that your a Jedi Shadow or just simply not know that Shadow's don't heal. Yes it can and will get annoying but they'll learn.

 

I agree with Cylria in communicating with your group. Making sure who will heal, tank, etc.

 

Also, I see where you can find it being annoying with people jumping into crowds of crazy high levels, expecting you to pull a rabbit out of your hat and heal them. Even being a healer these people think you have unlimited power or something and then when they die they blame you for not healing them... The life of a consular. Sheesh.

[Scilent]

Since I started out as a Jedi Sage, I automatically think that all consular's are healers. It's a simple mistake for some. They can either not see that your a Jedi Shadow or just simply not know that Shadow's don't heal. Yes it can and will get annoying but they'll learn.

 

I agree with Cylria in communicating with your group. Making sure who will heal, tank, etc.

 

Also, I see where you can find it being annoying with people jumping into crowds of crazy high levels, expecting you to pull a rabbit out of your hat and heal them. Even being a healer these people think you have unlimited power or something and then when they die they blame you for not healing them... The life of a consular. Sheesh.

 

I'm not a Shadow. I'm a TK (Telekinetic Sage). I'm built for DPS, not healing... but like I said in the original post. The problem isn't with my communication, it's the lack of interest/attention on the part of those inviting me that's causing the problem.

 

I'm up front with what I do.... DPS... mostly. I heal in a pinch. Not a main healer. That's why I say, I'm a TK sage or I'll say I'm a DPS sage. But to these people I spoke of in the original post... they ignore it or don't pay attention to it.

 

And that's often getting us all killed and causing no end of frustration.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Scilent

[Minniyar]

Judging from some of the responses you got in this post, I'd say that people pay attention to the TK/DPS sage part on the forums about as well as they do in the game--which is not at all. The game is still new and a lot of people are learning the phrases for the skill trees and classes.

 

What do people say after they're screaming for heals in combat and you say, "When I was LFG I said very clearly that I was DPS/TK sage."

 

Maybe change your lfg to say DPS/TK specced sage lfg- and specifically mention you're not specced for healing?

[acidzero]

If I am looking for a healer and someone says they are a sage, I specifically ask them if they are heal specced. If they are not I tell them I need a healer and continue me search.

 

I get the same stuff a lot when I join groups as a shadow tank. A guildie will invite me and the group will complain because they said we needed a tank, not more dps.

 

The CC part of it drives me nuts too, as a shadow I almost always CC one of the stronger mobs before I pull. I ussually have to explain this before we start going in the flashpoint, or the jediknight in the group will almost always leap over to the one I just CCed.

 

I think after another month or so people will finally settle in with what class does what, and that not everyone is the stereo typical, heal sage, dps shadow..etc...etc...

 

Some game changes can help with the CC portion too, like a target of target option or a macro for /assist (just a key you can tie /assist name) I know you can target someone and use a key combination to assist them, but its unreliable and extra button presses..but this is for another topic another time.

Edited January 15, 2012 by acidzero

[Brittaany_Banks]

Jedi Sages get the assumption we are all heals because if you look at this chart...

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--yYaylJ0myI/TlibRH0NbpI/AAAAAAAAFZo/ZGJC4REj6yA/s1600/swtor-classes.jpg

 

Jedi Sages are the only Jedi class that can have the ability to heal. Sage is the only class that has this stereotype associated with it because almost all healers in this game are Sages.

[RinoaDH]

I dont see why you wouldnt heal anyway. All the flashpoints, with the exception of the foundry(which is still doable, but hard), are EASILY healable by a dps specced sorceror/sage

 

I, personally, heal every instance im in on my consular alt, and im also specced TK.

 

Saves so much time looking for a group

 

Obviously its different at 50, but im assuming you are not 50 from reading your post

Edited January 15, 2012 by RinoaDH

[kowysA]

When I advertise myself on general chat I NEVER say that I'm a sage, all i say is along the lines of "DPS...LFG for X", and I always make the group call out who is the healer and tank before starting a flashpoint.

 

No problems with nerdrage so far

[Bilirubin]

Communication can sometimes be difficult out there. Before the first fight I can go to extreme lengths to explain what I am (kinetic shadow), mark targets, and ask them to wait until I cc one, but 2 out of 3 times someone will let rip with an AoE while I'm stealthed in the middle of the enemies...

 

Still. When a group clicks the content just melts in front of us, and that is quite satisfying.

[Scilent]

When I advertise myself on general chat I NEVER say that I'm a sage, all i say is along the lines of "DPS...LFG for X", and I always make the group call out who is the healer and tank before starting a flashpoint.

 

No problems with nerdrage so far

 

You know, I think I'll start doing this from now on. I'll just not advertise that I'm a sage at all. Just... DPS.

[Scilent]

I dont see why you wouldnt heal anyway. All the flashpoints, with the exception of the foundry(which is still doable, but hard), are EASILY healable by a dps specced sorceror/sage

 

I, personally, heal every instance im in on my consular alt, and im also specced TK.

 

Saves so much time looking for a group

 

Obviously its different at 50, but im assuming you are not 50 from reading your post

 

It's not that I "won't" heal, it's that I'm not good at it (meaning, not specced for it), and/or a combination of that and the jedi that are leaping in aren't very good at keeping multiple aggro.

 

The people I get frustrated with in the original post, will leap in, and when I try to do a little healing, the other 2 mobs will start focusing in on me and then with all the pushback I get, I'm not able to heal anyone, and I'm dead before my next heal can land on them.

 

Then I get all the "Heal!!! Heal!!! WTH!!!" crap from them.

 

I dunno, never played a tank player in swtor, so I don't know anything about how difficult it is to keep aggro off healers, but they sure didn't do their job that night.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Scilent

[MareloRyan]

It's not that I "won't" heal, it's that I'm not good at it (meaning, not specced for it), and/or a combination of that and the jedi that are leaping in aren't very good at keeping multiple aggro.

 

The people I get frustrated with in the original post, will leap in, and when I try to do a little healing, the other 2 mobs will start focusing in on me and then with all the pushback I get, I'm not able to heal anyone, and I'm dead before my next heal can land on them.

 

Then I get all the "Heal!!! Heal!!! WTH!!!" crap from them.

 

I dunno, never played a tank player in swtor, so I don't know anything about how difficult it is to keep aggro off healers, but they sure didn't do their job that night.

 

Not sure about other tankin' classes, but the Vanguard/Powertech taunt is a very reliable way to keep aggro off healers. As far as I know, other class taunts function identically, except the aoe versions.

 

I think part of the problem is just that this is both an MMO and a Star Wars game. There are way more Star Wars fans who have never played an MMO before than in other MMOs. A lot of the time I have to educate most of the group on very basic MMO concepts like aggro, DPS, CC, etc.

[Kyomih]

I actually find this thread funny, seeing that about 80+% of Sages are not seer tree focused

[Scilent]

I actually find this thread funny, seeing that about 80+% of Sages are not seer tree focused

 

Considering that.... yeah... it's kinda funny.... until you're in the groups I've been getting lately.

[kilcanon]

A pair of quick responses to your by in large good post:

 

1. Use all your abilities. Even if you're not the primary healer, don't take your heals off the toolbar. If the main healer is struggling to keep the tank up, throw a heal or two out to make life easier on him. Every player should use all their abilities to maximize their performance for the group. Your heals are included in that.

 

2. Tanks have to AoE to some degree. There aren't many snap aggro skills in the game nor a huge threat lead (ie it's not WoW) and the tank has to keep some damage going to maintain threat on the targets. Essentially unless you can isolate a mob a good distance from the tank (and all other hostiles) they can't let you CC them.

 

I find it better to introduce the idea of LoS tanking. Where the tank aggros a pack then ducks around the corner. All of the mobs run around the corner to get to the tank and the fight happens there. Two main advantages - The mobs are nicely clustered which makes tanking easier and if you CC one as they run it's isolated by default and won't be broken.

Edited January 16, 2012 by kilcanon

[Kesitah]

2. Tanks have to AoE to some degree. There aren't many snap aggro skills in the game nor a huge threat lead (ie it's not WoW) and the tank has to keep some damage going to maintain threat on the targets. Essentially unless you can isolate a mob a good distance from the tank (and all other hostiles) they can't let you CC them.

 

This is of course easiest for us (shadow tank typing here...). But if it is a good (!) group and leaves me the time for this, I can usually position the non-CC'ed mobs away from the CC. This will make me build up my aggro a bit slower, thoguh, carefully positioning those mobs, so if a jedi knight DPS jumps right into the mobs, then I won't be able to do this.

But if I can - then I can use my AOE-Aggrobuild-Skills savely away from CC.

 

A big problem are usually not the jumping jedi knights, though, but people only used to single player content and that you can run through mobs and lose aggro on them. How often did I have it, that some dps just ran into a pack of elites, into the next pack behind them while they were going after him, and then - I tried to save him and died, fetching aggro of all two elite packs. Then usually a comment like "oh - they seem to be quite hard" or something like that came.

 

And to OP: I know how you feel about it. For me it was often similar situation. In one group a guy just did not believe me that Shadows can tank ("How do you want to tank? You are a shadow!"), so I can really feel with Sages who are "assumed" to be heals by many people.

[Simoon]

I don't think your the only person thats ever found this in ANY MMO. I played a Smite (dps) cleric in DAOC and people still asked me to heal, because I had the basic abilities to do it. As a sage I still have the basic tools to heal even though i'm heading down the balance path. The same is also true of the commando's and scoundrels. While i'll grant you most people will expect the commando's to be dps and the scoundrels to have split spec'd they all have the ability to heal. I've got a commando alt and he's a combat medic (for a change of pace).

 

If the group you have joined don't get that your not healing spec'd and the Knights just "jump in on 3 elites and expect you to save them" then it's the group which is failing. They probably want to farm some content as fast as possible, thats the problem with PUG's. You never no what you're going to get until it all goes wrong :-)

 

Personally I always find out how people are spec'd and how they play when I'm forming or joining a group. The same as the basic ground rules of who's the main tank and who's healing who (raids) and who's guarding who.

 

Final note, if it's any consolation I grouped with a couple of friends and a sage (who I didn't know) to runt he coruscant heroic's on my JK. We had a great time but after we had some poor luck and an errant aoe knockback we wiped and had to run part of one heroic again. After the wipe our sage informed me that I should be running in Shi-Cho stance to do more damage. I replied "I'm in soresu form to generate the extra threat and damage reduction", he stuck to his guns about shi-cho until our sentinel and shadow both offered that I was in the best stance for the group and for keeping the sage alive (he was a healer). Moral of the diatribe is, sometimes people need to know a bit more about your class than they think they need to know.

[Elyx]

I've noticed similar results from my characters. like one run in taris where the healer, halfway through the run, mentioned that it was a pretty easy run since a dps class was tanking (I was on my shadow tanking the run).

 

I mentioned that we had a tank spec, and she replied "oh, I didn't know that". the character design in this game crosses many traditional lines, so most people don't consider it.

 

Plus there's quite a few people in this game new to MMO's. I'm surprised (pleasantly) at how many people are playing solely for the star wars universe experience, and are new to MMO's. jsut the other day I had a tank confess it was his first MMO. his next 2 questions were,

 

"what's CC?"

 

"whats that weird mark above my target?" - oh that. It's nothing. just the mark I said was CC and told everyone to NOT TOUCH.

 

some folks are just getting used to the whole grouping/MMO thing. coming from many years and many games prior to this, I forget that often some people aren't into the lingo that's second nature to many of us.

 

Many of those new players are also NOT forum browsers, so It often leans onto us in game for patience and edumication

[SoonerJBD]

It obviously helps to communicate ahead of time, but there are always going to be dumb people playing any MMO. You can explain slowly and in easy to understand words exactly who is going to CC and how you want to pull, and some ******* is going to jump in and break CC and get you killed.

 

I've generally avoided the Sage/healer problem by just saying up front that I am a DPS (not even mentioning Sage) and making sure we had a healer and a tank in the group from the start. If people get fed up looking for a healer and ask if I can heal, I explain that I can off heal and cast force armor but that I have no points in the healing tree and will run out of force and have problems keeping up if I try to main heal.

 

You have two things working against you. First, you have the before-mentioned folks who have never played an MMO before and don't understand the concepts of CC/aggro/etc. This is a pretty lousy excuse, though. This is my first MMO, and I picked up on the concepts pretty quickly. The second problem is your people who have played MMOs before and don't understand that most classes give you an option to choose between two or even three different roles with your advanced class and spec. These people are annoying. This isn't WoW. If you want to play WoW, play WoW. This game allows me to use a Sage as a ranged caster DPS, a role I quite enjoy. If you want a healer, roll one yourself.

[Xarry]

When I advertise myself on general chat I NEVER say that I'm a sage, all i say is along the lines of "DPS...LFG for X", and I always make the group call out who is the healer and tank before starting a flashpoint.

 

No problems with nerdrage so far

 

Thats the way to do it.