Jedi vs Adeptus Astartes (space marines)

[Foxfirega]

Not to mention...yea, Grey Knights would of course Mary Sue themselves to victory (THANKS TO HE-WHO-SHALL-NOT-BE-NAME'D WARD!) Has anyone seen or heard about Kaldor Draigo? The Grey Knights' Chapter Master...

 

It's funny because it's true~!

 

I'd bet on Kaldor against anything in any universe ever except that one guy he's Doomed by Fate to die in combat against for the most part. Plot armor so thick you could build cities on it, that one has.

[MorbidAri]

Eldar Farseer > Jedi Master > Eldar Warlock > Jedi Knight > Space Marine.

 

Farseer is top as they could match the Force with their own psychic powers. Like Jedi they too can see into the future. Like Jedi they wield powers that can destroy lesser mortals with mere thought. Why I give the farseer the advantage is tech.

 

The farseer has a force shield that could deflect a lightsaber. The farseer wields either a Singing spear or a Witchblade. Both weapons are powerful enough to cut through hulking beats with the most tremendous ease.

 

Yes Lightsaber are equal in power to Singing spear/Witchblade. The real advantage is the force shield of the Farseer. Having the same offense but a better defence is key.

 

If both universes were to be at war, the Jedi would over take the Eldar by numbers alone. They could never wipe them out as the Eldar would run to the Webway.

 

As for the Space Marine reference. Just because Grey Knights are OP in the table top doesn't mean they stand a chance against a Jedi. Remember Dark Eldar are always a step away with a Crucible to show your Grey Knights whats what.

 

And as a final note, I put the Warlock above the average Jedi for a reason. Eldar live longer than even the most powerful force users by hundreds of years. Warlocks master the arts of war for centuries and have the same force shield as a Farseer and powerful offensive psychic powers and weapons as the average Jedi. Again the advantage is in defence alone.

[malevolunze]

Space Marines.

 

 

Not to mention...yea, Grey Knights would of course Mary Sue themselves to victory (THANKS TO HE-WHO-SHALL-NOT-BE-NAME'D WARD!) Has anyone seen or heard about Kaldor Draigo? The Grey Knights' Chapter Master...

The God-Emperor himself, looking at his deeds, stood up... And quit his *********** job because clearly he had become irrelevant.

 

 

So yea....Basically Jedi are psykers with glowing baseball bats, nothing the Space Marines havent dealt with.

 

HELL YEAH kaldor draigo FTW let me list his awesomeness:

 

.When he was a normal grey knight he killed a daemon prince m'kar the reborn a feat usually impossible for a normal marine (although he did have help).

 

.Became the supreme grand master of the grey knights something which requires the unanimous consent of 8 grand masters all beleiving he is pure of soul and will be a great leader.

 

.Led the grey knights to defeat an army of daemons led by the same prince and this time killed him with no help.

 

.Wandered the warp endlessly enduring countless horrors which would have easily broken the strongest space marines.

 

.Killed countless daemons,heretics,daemon princes and greater daemons

 

.DESTOYED AN ENTIRE DEMONIC CITY SINGLE HANDEDLY.

 

For all these reasons and more draigos motto should be: When chuck norris isnt enough...

Edited January 15, 2012 by malevolunze

[Bobinator]

Emperor's Replacement.

 

For those who dont know about him.

[Gerandar]

"you want to shoot yourself in the head"

 

why more jedi dont do this is beyond me

[Deathforged]

"you want to shoot yourself in the head"

 

why more jedi dont do this is beyond me

 

Because it doesn't work on strong willed people.

[MxCNOM]

"you want to shoot yourself in the head"

 

why more jedi dont do this is beyond me

While Chaos might be able to wear down marines eventually, even the best Jedi could not trick a space marine into shooting himself.

 

As to the fight, well, honestly, I think precognition would be the way the Jedi wins. In any fight other than a completely flat wasteland, the Jedi would know the marine's location AT ALL TIMES, yet remain hidden and be able to prepare his fight accordingly. And by "fight" I mean "Hey, buddy, why is your armor not working? Why is your gun way over there? Why are you hovering helplessly 20 feet in the air?"

 

A force user beat one emperor, it can beat another!

Edited January 16, 2012 by MxCNOM

[CptBrit]

Emperor's Replacement.

 

For those who dont know about him.

 

I've never been on 4chan. I've heard of it, but avoided do to the amount of sh*te i've heard is put on there.

 

But that page... That page is epic lol

 

"The God-Emperor himself, looking at his deeds, stood up... And quit his *********** job because clearly he had become irrelevant."

 

**** I actually nearly pissed myself laughing... Just got this image of the Emperor looking discusted and saying "Fu*k this i'm off to watch re-runs of Countdown... i'll cya at Christmas time!"

 

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/File:****_TRAIN.jpg

 

Anyone who doesn't at least smile at that has no soul lol.

 

But anyways back on Topic.

 

There are 1 million Space Marines, though they would never all be in one place because the shear amount of awesome would make any Force powers irrelevant.

 

Jedi's can be anything from the best warriors in the galaxy to cannon fodder (Order 66 AKA Buh Bye, Jedi).

 

The Space Marines literally die if their body can't handle the implants and seeing as though the Space Marines don't just let anyone in (They have got to be fu*king amazing anyway).

 

Also about Farseers facerolling everything. Dawn of War is canon, and one Space Marine Force Commander who isn't Psychic killed a Farseer while been fried by Lightening. Yea it was just the Intro but damn it was epic and seeing as the game is canon, its all fair and good.

Edited January 16, 2012 by CptBrit

[Daddy_Max]

In sheer numbers:

Manpower: Space Marines > Jedi. Ultramarines alone outnumber the complete Jedi Order.

 

Physical abilities: Space Marines > Jedi. Soft jedi flesh cannot compete with genetically improved and augmented bodies, that spit acid and neutralise poisons (1 exception here, Jedi can get drunk, lol. But wait, Space Wolves can get too). In, let's say, love affairs, both, except space wolves, simply... dont want, so here's a par

 

Outfit: Space Marines > Jedi. Armor vs. robes, 'nuff said.

 

Weapons: Space Marines > Jedi. Lightsabers are tremendous, but a variety and multi-tasking of a space marine's weaponry, makes him a versatile for almost any task, not only close combat.

 

Epicness: Space Marines > Jedi. ZILLIONS SMASHED! BURNED! EXTERMINATUS!! GUTS&GORE&BLOOD!!! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!!! (whoops).

 

These guys are just not comparable.

 

That's because the Jedi do the job of Arbitres, not of Astartes. And a mild touch of Ordo Xenos\Malleus (Sith hunt). I feel it makes more sense to compare by function.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Daddy_Max

[Khazius]

Just wanted to point out, regular bolter rounds are actually .998 caliber.

Heavy bolter rounds are bigger.

 

Space Marines.

 

I dont believe you can block "slug thrower" with a lightsaber...and a bolter is basically a .75 caliber gryojet.

 

Not to mention...yea, Grey Knights would of course Mary Sue themselves to victory (THANKS TO HE-WHO-SHALL-NOT-BE-NAME'D WARD!) Has anyone seen or heard about Kaldor Draigo? The Grey Knights' Chapter Master...

The God-Emperor himself, looking at his deeds, stood up... And quit his *********** job because clearly he had become irrelevant.

 

 

So yea....Basically Jedi are psykers with glowing baseball bats, nothing the Space Marines havent dealt with.

[Ballroom]

OK, I'll bite, even if I considder it a moot point to compare the two...

 

A Jedi that is caught off guard at range by a Marine will be gunned down or blown up. Just as he is liable to be killed by any other ranged Star Wars trooper with a missile launcher, high explosives, or some form of rifle fired slug like bullets.

 

A Jedi vs. a Marine starting off at medium range. This is a cointoss that to a large degree will depend on the abilities of the individual Jedi and Marine, as well as the amount of possible cover, and the exact distance involved. The longer the Jedi remains at range, the more likely (s)he is to be shot down and die.

 

Up close and personal the Marine is cut to shreads by a Jedi in seconds. Their armour is toast, and their natural toughness poses even less of a challenge to a lightsaber. Marines may be fast, but they loose to the unarmoured Jedi and their Forceguided attacks. Force/power weapons and/or storm shields or similar may or may not be able to defend against a lightsaber. It's impossible to determine, as there simply is no text material available that compares the two types of weapons. Personally I'd say that equipment that provides a direct forcefield like type defence gets a chance to stop the lightsaber, but if not protected in that manner, the lightsaber will cut it.

 

Force powers vs. a Space Marine? Depends on the power in question. Some might have no effect, others might very well be able to make a mockery of a Marine and his armour by bypassing its protective effects.

 

Lightsaber vs. various Marine weaponry? The lightsaber would probably have a chance to deflect against las weapons, and possibly plasma weapons up to rifle size. Bolters, melta weapons, flamers, missiles and grenades will most likely not be deflectable by a lightsaber, and will make short work of your average Jedi. Up close the lightsaber trumph's most or all Marine equipment that isn't protected by some form of force field.

 

Psychic powers vs. the Force? Different mechanics and types of power. Some effects may appear amongst both types of powers, but generally neither offers any real defence against the other.

 

Overall it's a cointoss dependant upon a number of external situational factors.

[Deathforged]

 

Up close and personal the Marine is cut to shreads by a Jedi in seconds. Their armour is toast, and their natural toughness poses even less of a challenge to a lightsaber. Marines may be fast, but they loose to the unarmoured Jedi and their Forceguided attacks. Force/power weapons and/or storm shields or similar may or may not be able to defend against a lightsaber. It's impossible to determine, as there simply is no text material available that compares the two types of weapons. Personally I'd say that equipment that provides a direct forcefield like type defence gets a chance to stop the lightsaber, but if not protected in that manner, the lightsaber will cut it.

 

 

I still give the edge to marines in close combat. The marine only needs to land a punch or kick to cripple a jedi. Marines also have redundant organs, heal quickly, and the armor has pain balms, stims, and helps stem bleeding(not needed since lightsabers cauterize wounds).

Power weapons generate an energy field so would more than likely be able to block a lightsaber. So like power weapons in 40k a lightsaber would cut through normal armor but has a chance of being stopped by things with an energy field (terminator armor, iron halos, storm shield) The eldar are comparable to jedi and they rightly fear the adeptus astartes.

 

This is without taking into account Primarchs and the God Emporer of mankind.

[Ballroom]

I still give the edge to marines in close combat. The marine only needs to land a punch or kick to cripple a jedi. Marines also have redundant organs, heal quickly, and the armor has pain balms, stims, and helps stem bleeding(not needed since lightsabers cauterize wounds).

Power weapons generate an energy field so would more than likely be able to block a lightsaber. So like power weapons in 40k a lightsaber would cut through normal armor but has a chance of being stopped by things with an energy field (terminator armor, iron halos, storm shield) The eldar are comparable to jedi and they rightly fear the adeptus astartes.

 

This is without taking into account Primarchs and the God Emporer of mankind.

 

Power Weapons: I'd argue that this would depend on the type of energy field involved. The purpose of the power weapon isn't to be able to parry or deflect incoming energy attacks. It's to tear the target appart, increasing the damage inflicted. I have no problem imagining that there would be several types of energy fields available in 40K, some designed for defence, and others designed for destruction. The sheer range of different types of "force fields" (Displacer, Refractor etc.) available in 2nd ed 40K would arguably support this idea.

 

Close Combat: You can argue that the Marine will only have to hit once to cause severe damage, but the question is whether or not he even gets a chance to do so, before he's missing limbs or his head. Marines may be skilled in close combat, but Jedi are experts. They have to be, given their choice of a "sword" in a world of ranged weapons. Remember, Jedi parry ranged attacks. Even Marines don't/can't do that. Without the assistance of the Force, I'd grant that the Marine has a chance. But with the Force, and the lack of armour, the Jedi beats the Marine on speed and close combat skill, and this ends the fight in favour of the Jedi. IMO of course ;-)

Edited January 17, 2012 by Ballroom

[Ilusiontde]

Space marine all the way, even in close combat. One punch from a marine would kill or several cripple a Jedi, thats all it would take. (the marine may lose a arm or something though) At range the Jedi stands no chance.

 

Id bet that a single chapter of marines (with support from the guard and inquisition, maybe a titan or two) would be able to purge the entire star wars galaxy.

 

As others have said it would be a slaughter.

[anairien]

Power Weapons: I'd argue that this would depend on the type of energy field involved. The purpose of the power weapon isn't to be able to parry or deflect incoming energy attacks. It's to tear the target appart, increasing the damage inflicted. I have no problem imagining that there would be several types of energy fields available in 40K, some designed for defence, and others designed for destruction. The sheer range of different types of "force fields" (Displacer, Refractor etc.) available in 2nd ed 40K would arguably support this idea.

 

Close Combat: You can argue that the Marine will only have to hit once to cause severe damage, but the question is whether or not he even gets a chance to do so, before he's missing limbs or his head. Marines may be skilled in close combat, but Jedi are experts. They have to be, given their choice of a "sword" in a world of ranged weapons. Remember, Jedi parry ranged attacks. Even Marines don't/can't do that. Without the assistance of the Force, I'd grant that the Marine has a chance. But with the Force, and the lack of armour, the Jedi beats the Marine on speed and close combat skill, and this ends the fight in favour of the Jedi. IMO of course ;-)

 

inquisitor eisenhorn at one point had a power weapon without a physical blade-literally a lightsaber in all but name. these are however exceptionally rare versions.

 

that said, ibram gaunt can and has used his power weapon (the sword of sondar) to deflect las rounds and similar stuff before, which implies that similar weaponry can be used in this fashion, and he has also used it to break various stealth and force fields, which implies that similar quality weapons may be able to do the same. this implies that the lightsabers blade could be destroyed by a power weapon of sufficient provenance.

 

jedi, by the by, are not close combat experts at all. they are good at a highly stylised form of martial art which, with the exception of the elite amongst the jedi, is shown to be rather ineffective in battle situations where they are caught off guard or in a bad position. the space marines, by contrast, are most definitely expert in combat in most forms of combat relevant to their setting. as to choosing the "sword" over the blaster-space marines are often equipped with chainsaw swords. in a setting where the average humans laser rifle (habitually mocked as a "flashlight" by the fanbase for its ineffectiveness) kicks out enough megajoules to flash fry the soft tissue of anything it hits, aside from the hole made in the thing... now, space marines dont block these kinds of attacks. they completely ignore them.

 

as to speed-they are both capable of superhuman agility, but for space marines this is the norm, for the jedi it requires effort. and i honestly dont see how lacking any armour whatsoever would mean anything other than a massive, glaring and overwhelming disadvantage for the jedi. because power armour augments the space marines ability's. cloth doesnt do the same for the jedi.

 

 

*edit*

Space marine all the way, even in close combat. One punch from a marine would kill or several cripple a Jedi, thats all it would take. (the marine may lose a arm or something though) At range the Jedi stands no chance.

 

Id bet that a single chapter of marines (with support from the guard and inquisition, maybe a titan or two) would be able to purge the entire star wars galaxy.

 

As others have said it would be a slaughter.

 

actually setting versus setting the star wars franchise would come out on top easily. whilst 40k forces would have an immense ground superiority in per capita combat strength, they would be as massively outnumbered versus, for example, the galactic empire as they themselves would outnumber the federation of star trek. in space their ships (taking into account the extended universe canon) would have rough parity against each other in fire power, but star wars space travel is massively, horrendously faster. it is like comparing eusain (sp?) bolt to a slug. seriously.

Edited January 17, 2012 by anairien

[Daddy_Max]

MOVED HERE

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=188250

 

 

Fellas, don't compare apples to oranges, please...

 

I've already stated that, but it went unnoticed so far, so here's my thoughts:

 

Jedi are not comparable to Space marines \ Chaos marines \ Boyz \ etc. Why? Because they do not perform the job of a heavy superior trooper, that's why.

 

Jedi do: maintain public order and quell unrests, councel, supervise or lead investigations, advise, encourage comrades and lead them in battle, resist the Dark Side and hunt the Sith.

 

Jedi don't do or tend no to do: assault planets in vast numbers, storm fortresses, hold the line.

 

The profile stated above, suits Inquisitors, Comissars, Arbitres. All of them are a capable adversaries for the Jedi.

 

Jedi vs. Space Marine is like a rapier against battle axe.

 

Edited January 17, 2012 by Daddy_Max

[GhostRiderLSOV]

Yeah, I also think Imperial Inquisitors are better suited for jedi opponents.

 

It's in the name too.

Edited January 17, 2012 by GhostRiderLSOV

[AuraJurai]

Actually a fairer compassion would be Sith Vs Space Marine but then again the sith would crush them as they have no regard for life and would simply destroy the space marine planets with a super weapon or two

[YeesBox]

Actually a fairer compassion would be Sith Vs Space Marine but then again the sith would crush them as they have no regard for life and would simply destroy the space marine planets with a super weapon or two

 

[Khazius]

actually setting versus setting the star wars franchise would come out on top easily. whilst 40k forces would have an immense ground superiority in per capita combat strength, they would be as massively outnumbered versus, for example, the galactic empire as they themselves would outnumber the federation of star trek. in space their ships (taking into account the extended universe canon) would have rough parity against each other in fire power, but star wars space travel is massively, horrendously faster. it is like comparing eusain (sp?) bolt to a slug. seriously.

 

I would disagree with this. Assuming for some reason that Star Wars FTL travel doesn't make use of the Warp, and it a universe where they met each other in combat Star Wars ships were not similarly hampered by the same restrictions as Warhammer ships, the Imperial Navy has millions of ships.

 

They don't need speed. They can "slowly" (though Warp travel is still quite fast) truck along the Galaxy, subjugating worlds and leaving garrisons as great as many of the republic worlds very populations on each planet. Their are no horrors of Chaos, ork hordes, or Tyranid hive fleets (presumably) so republic planets would fall like flies. Planetary shields rendered worthless by filling the sky with drop pods, or carriers with a million imperial guard descending on the capital.

 

Essentially, the "fast" travel of Star Wars is worthless to stop the tides of the Imperium.

[anairien]

I would disagree with this. Assuming for some reason that Star Wars FTL travel doesn't make use of the Warp, and it a universe where they met each other in combat Star Wars ships were not similarly hampered by the same restrictions as Warhammer ships, the Imperial Navy has millions of ships.

 

They don't need speed. They can "slowly" (though Warp travel is still quite fast) truck along the Galaxy, subjugating worlds and leaving garrisons as great as many of the republic worlds very populations on each planet. Their are no horrors of Chaos, ork hordes, or Tyranid hive fleets (presumably) so republic planets would fall like flies. Planetary shields rendered worthless by filling the sky with drop pods, or carriers with a million imperial guard descending on the capital.

 

Essentially, the "fast" travel of Star Wars is worthless to stop the tides of the Imperium.

 

 

no it isnt, because the sw side can move troops and resources with, for the most part, impunity. travel speed isnt only important in naval terms; logistics and transport capacity are exceptionally important.

 

we can assume sw ftl doesnt use the warp because there is no indication whatsoever that it uses the warp, it is as simple as that, and whilst the imperial navy has millions of ships, the vast majority are not capital ships, but smaller destroyers, frigates and transports. now-with the slower travel and highly visible nature of warp/realspace transition, it provides ample room for commerce raiders to ply their trade, which is one that relies on speed and application of firepower to do as much damage as possible and disengage in short order. this would be easier for star wars ships than 40k type ships (with the exception of the necrons). this same advantage gives the sw ships a decent chance at running imperial blockades, as they are able to use hyperdrive to reach deep into individual solar systems-such as the millenium falcon exiting hyperspace above what was once alderaan. imperial ships typically cannot achieve this accuracy, and would not anticipate a foe that could in the beginning.

[AuraJurai]

An Eclipse would decimate the whole Imperial Navy

[Foxfirega]

An Eclipse would decimate the whole Imperial Navy

 

The Eclipse-class was 17.5KM long, and Super Star Destroyers were beyond 'flagship' class Battleships. It was noteworthy for it's size, and rare.

 

Imperial Battleships start at about 8-9km and can be larger (as there were multiple warships in that class). They weren't really rare, though they were generally uncommon (being harder to produce, though not impossible - there were a few Forgeworlds still dedicated to their production, but because of how long it takes to produce one, they were generally built to be as unstoppable and reliable as possible in the first place). The number of battleships actually present in the Imperial Navy is up to debate (as is the general size of the navy itself, which is only estimated as 'millions' of ships at best)

 

The Executor, for the record, is ~1.5 to 2km longer then the Eclipse, and also has the same flaws - it was ridiculously hard to produce (the first Eclipse took as long as the Death Star to produce, as an example), rare, and generally regarded as impractically large.

 

For more comparison fun, the largest 'Star Destroyer' class vessel (that didn't achieve a class of it's own) was 4km. This was a class generally regarded as being able to destroy entire star systems with the firepower it had available to it.

 

The standard Imperium of Man battlecruiser is anywhere from 5km to 5.5km long, and produced in bulk. And these aren't the largest battlecruisers at all (the Star Destroyer class was generally considered a 'battleship' by any navy that used it), nor the largest ships in the Imperium by a long shot. Largest on-record standard pattern 'cruiser' class vessel is 7.5km.

 

A standard Imperium escort Frigate is still larger then the average 'cruiser' class of many Republic ships, and better armed/shielded (as the generally have to deal with significantly larger volumes of fire).

 

The Imperium builds their stuff huge, and in bulk. :U One exceptional ship, often regarded as some of the biggest the universe has produced, wouldn't bother them as they're used to shooting at bigger targets.

 

Also completely irrelevant when comparing the capabilities of the Jedi versus the Space Marines. We had a whole thread for general things, this is a specific deviation from that. :U

 

EDIT: May have miscalculated how many battleships are in the Imperial Navy - I blame poor documentation. They're a lot more common then I thought they were, but nowhere near as common as lesser vessels. Also added some re-adjustments (again, I had to blow through bad documentation, my apologies). Trying to be objective here, while trying to get across that the Imperial Navy has far more then enough firepower to drop one supership (they drop Space Hulks on a regular basis, for one - moon+ sized balls of junk).

 

Still irrelevant in an infantry vs. infantry fight, though.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Foxfirega

[Khazius]

no it isnt, because the sw side can move troops and resources with, for the most part, impunity. travel speed isnt only important in naval terms; logistics and transport capacity are exceptionally important.

 

we can assume sw ftl doesnt use the warp because there is no indication whatsoever that it uses the warp, it is as simple as that, and whilst the imperial navy has millions of ships, the vast majority are not capital ships, but smaller destroyers, frigates and transports. now-with the slower travel and highly visible nature of warp/realspace transition, it provides ample room for commerce raiders to ply their trade, which is one that relies on speed and application of firepower to do as much damage as possible and disengage in short order. this would be easier for star wars ships than 40k type ships (with the exception of the necrons). this same advantage gives the sw ships a decent chance at running imperial blockades, as they are able to use hyperdrive to reach deep into individual solar systems-such as the millenium falcon exiting hyperspace above what was once alderaan. imperial ships typically cannot achieve this accuracy, and would not anticipate a foe that could in the beginning.

 

Sorry, but the following quotes make Hyperspace sound very similar to the Warp (though less dangerous, at least at the time.)

 

To enter hyperspace, the hyperdrive's horizontal boosters would provide energy to the ionization chamber to begin ignition that would release the radiation, causing ripples in the time-space matrix and allowing the ship to propel off the ripples into hyperspace.

 

Once in hyperspace, a null quantum field generator helped stabilize the vessel and kept it from prematurely emerging from the alternate dimension.

 

The first interstellar space drive known to make use of hyperspace was developed by the Rakata, who built their Infinite Empire around technology using the dark side of the Force to travel through hyperspace.

 

Furthermore, if the Republic/Empire maintains the speed advantage, it boils down to hit and run versus attrition.

 

Regarding the Eclipse, and naval combat in general, I think it boils down to how Void Shields compare to Ray Shields. Considering the Empire's track record of having Capital Ships destroyed by fighter teams or boarding parties, i'm sure a couple Space Marine assault boats could neutralize anything the Empire/Republic has in short order.

[Karast]

Space marines would win. jedi are not exactly willing to blow up planets the same cannot be said for space marines.