Bioware: Allow Advanced Class Respec!

[KazeRonin]

So I glanced over this and I see a lot of comments about Advanced Classes being different classes and other games don't let you change your class. Well to them I ask, how many times have you been trying to throw together a Flashpoint with members recruited from general chat only to find your lacking something, be it a healer or a tank. Now I know if you hit some buttons channeled for a moment and could switch to your off class of Sage from your main class as Shadow or switched from your main class of Marauder to your off class of Juggernaut so that you could fill a critical role you may not have the best gear for that switch maybe it's missing Alacrity or Defense but you know what you may still be able to pull it off since your primary stat remains the same.

 

I'm sure this could come in handy for Ops groups and many other situations and would allow you to play the full spectrum of your character instead of being locked down to a choice thrown at you with only the briefest of information passed before forcing you into one of two choices, (yes you could read your skill trees but it doesn't mean anything to you your first time and especially so for someone new to MMOs)

 

Also this isn't a stand alone game, it's not a one shot story line you play on your own that will eventually end, this is a endless story as long as the creators keep on writing new story line. Yes I know you could re roll in Dragon Age and some aspects of the story line would be different and that there was DLC but sometime within a year they stop producing content for those games and move to the next one, this game is supposed to keep going for years.

 

I for one like to change my play style and while I can change my skill tree it doesn't really change game play to much for that class, that class is still the same and even it's opposite has a similar feel. The main difference is that one can usually tank and the other can heal except for Gunslingers/Snipers who just dps, which is fine the other three classes can all tank.

 

All I'm asking for is the option to switch them for utilities sake, for those that feel that it would ruin there game then you don't have to take the option, play the way you want but give us the choice to change things up without restarting every time.

 

Thank you SWTOR team keep up the good work!

[Zandragal]

No, no, a thousand times no. It takes 2 hours for you to get to the point where you choose what AC you want. After that you are playing a different class for the remainder of the game. This is like asking Blizzard to let Warriors respec as Warlocks.

 

NO. Bad OP! Bad!

[havok_bloodcraft]

Having read 48 pages of this I have discovered the secret question. Please bio can I chose the easiest option for leveling and then at max level switch to whatever people want in raids?

And so for example I have a warrior I want to level as marauder to get to 50 faster and without as many hurdles along the way then become juggernaut so I can tank get into raids eventually get my hands on all the dps gear then go back to marauder at my leasure being easily the most indecisive player ever.

So when you run a huge thread for I think the grass is greener over there again I hope everyone else has the sense to realize what you are after as I am sure bioware does

[Herboss]

Would love to be able to do an advanced class respec, even if there was some long convoluted quest I had to do to "retrain my mind" or something so you couldn't just quickly switch between them. Choice is always the best option in any game. It would also give you something else to do in the game.

 

Why anyone would be against this or dual spec is beyond me, CHOICE IS GOOD!

[TheRealDestian]

I used to be anti AC-respec until I realized that many people are leveling a class and sadly learning that it's not what they had hoped or thought it would be.

 

My fiancee isn't big into alts and doesn't honestly seem to be head over heels in love with SWTOR like I am. Problem is, she leveled a sentinel and they seem to be mostly awful and unenjoyable right now and she's the polar opposite of an altaholic.

 

Nothing would be better than for her to be able to respec to a guardian, which seems to be an all-around better class. It might help reinvigorate her enjoyment of the game, which would in turn ensure I'll be playing it longer, too.

 

Let characters AC respec once per month for a hefty fee. That way, no one will gain any huge advantage from it but people will be able to hopefully find the class they like.

Edited January 30, 2012 by TheRealDestian

[Sabarok]

Would love to be able to do an advanced class respec, even if there was some long convoluted quest I had to do to "retrain my mind" or something so you couldn't just quickly switch between them. Choice is always the best option in any game. It would also give you something else to do in the game.

 

Why anyone would be against this or dual spec is beyond me, CHOICE IS GOOD!

 

Along that line of argument, why only advanced class respec? Full class respec. CHOICE IS GOOD. Maybe you should see how FF XI dealt with it. They let players have access to every class from a single character. Full customization. Know what else they did? You still have to level every class individually. They gave players all the choices & options they want, but players still had to earn every single one.

 

If you want to choose to play a different AC, you are free to choose to roll another character. Since there are mirrors, you can choose between the Empire version and the Republic version.

 

This is an MMO. Part of the value of an MMO is in earning what you have. There is plenty of choices, but they must be balanced against the value of the choice. What's the point in choosing between worthless options?

 

I don't want Bioware selling currency. I don't want them selling accounts. I don't want them selling end-game raid/pvp loot. I don't want them selling a class reset, advanced or otherwise. These are all things that give players "choices" and "options", but at the cost of devaluing the game for the rest of us. Just imagine how devalued SWTOR would be if players could buy 1 hour of invincibility. It would make flashpoints a lot easier, you wouldn't even need a team. You could just /faceroll over everything.

 

As for dual spec, I'm all for it as long as changing between specs involves visiting an NPC at the spaceport/fleet. The Skill Tree is where the options & customization are given to us fully, but part of the value of those choices is that the reset is only available at specific locations (I'd be OK with adding the NPC to more locations to make it more accessible). If you wanted full options & choices, how about an at-will reset to the skill tree? Let players click "reset" from the skill tree window anytime they want. I'd be against it, because it lowers the value of the skill tree.

 

The argument I hate most is the ones that use "If you don't like it, don't use it". If the option were there, I'd use it like crazy. That doesn't mean I want it available. I'm against it because it devalues the class system, which devalues my current character and it devalues SWTOR. As a paying player, I have an interest in SWTOR & my character in maintaining its value.

[havok_bloodcraft]

I used to be anti AC-respec until I realized that many people are leveling a class and sadly learning that it's not what they had hoped or thought it would be.

 

My fiancee isn't big into alts and doesn't honestly seem to be head over heels in love with SWTOR like I am. Problem is, she leveled a sentinel and they seem to be mostly awful and unenjoyable right now and she's the polar opposite of an altaholic.

 

Nothing would be better than for her to be able to respec to a guardian, which seems to be an all-around better class. It might help reinvigorate her enjoyment of the game, which would in turn ensure I'll be playing it longer, too.

 

Let characters AC respec once per month for a hefty fee. That way, no one will gain any huge advantage from it but people will be able to hopefully find the class they like.

 

I have a 50 jugg and a 45 sentinel they are pretty much the same thing one has 2 sabers other heavy armor but dps/survivability in solo pve is pretty much the same. it is more of a taste issue and I will agree that both seem underpowered atm.

 

^ see how I didn't have to redo anything to have both.

Edited January 30, 2012 by havok_bloodcraft

[MikelGoff]

If there was no problem, this thread wouldn't be here. And what about the people that have already reached 50 before having had a chance to try out their other AC? Sorry for having played the game to early?

 

There is also a thread about how Bioware should put a breast slider in.

 

Having a thread doesn't make it a big issue.

[MajikMyst]

The whole "one time only before <x> level" is meaningless, not only because few pro-reset can agree on when, but once the hard part of the technical aspect is implemented, it becomes a "We already have it for <x> level, why not raise it to <y> level? I missed changing my AC by 1 level and now I'm stuck forever!?"

 

As for your question, it devalues the game. It breaks the game in the exact same way that leveling a Juggernaut to 50 and then switching classes to a level 50 Operative would. I have never seen an MMO that let you level 1 class and then just gave you another class for free. The closest I've seen is FF XI where you can switch classes at will, but their whole system is designed around it, and you still need to level up each class individually. If you have a level 20 Black Mage and want to go healer, you're sent back to level 1 in order to level up your White Mage class.

 

It breaks the game because one player spends 50 levels working on a Sorceror and then gets an Assassin for free. Once you have reset your AC, most of your abilities are gone and some of your equipment can no longer be worn. You go to the class trainer, and there's a bunch of new abilities to buy. It is very clearly a class change, even though SWTOR calls it the "Advanced Class".

 

It breaks the game because it renders the entire concept of an Advanced Class meaningless. If you're going to have 2 ACs with switching between them, you might as well replace it with something that will work more efficiently, like dual spec would for the skill tree. Resetting the skill tree requires going back to the trainer to reset, but it hasn't stopped threads saying that dual spec is "needed". All this will do is start the threads for "dual AC spec". Bioware already drew the line at where resets can happen and the permanency of your choice.

 

If you want to have both classes, you need to earn them both times. You can't do the work once and then get the other for free.

 

The most the "pro-AC reset" are likely to get to help them in their "I don't wanna do the class quest over again" will be letting them create the alternate AC starting at level 10. You skip the part you've already done, but you need to earn the AC. So what if you're doing the class quest over again. You're also doing every other quest over again like every other class & MMO.

 

I have a level 50 Sorc I've worked hard on and put in lots of hours and I don't want to do all the levels over and do all those planetary quests again, it's boring doing the same quests over. Why can't Bioware just let me start an operative at level 50? I don't care about the class quests, I just want to try a different gameplay style. It's no fair that I was stuck with my class choice since I created the character.

 

If you were to take the Class Quest out of the game, would it still be justifiable for ACs to switch? Why should the addition of more story be a valid reason to throw half the classes out the window? Every other argument used to try and support an AC reset would also apply when arguing for a base class reset. Once we have the ability to create level 10s of the base class, it will be much more obvious that AC also stands for the Actual Class.

 

Wow!!! Excellent post!!

 

A award for you mister!! Nicely said!!

 

Quoted for truth!! That about sums it all up!!

[TheRealDestian]

I have a 50 jugg and a 45 sentinel they are pretty much the same thing one has 2 sabers other heavy armor but dps/survivability in solo pve is pretty much the same. it is more of a taste issue and I will agree that both seem underpowered atm.

 

^ see how I didn't have to redo anything to have both.

 

Everything I've seen and experienced runs contrary to what you've said here, mainly in that guardians are flat out better than sentinels because they actually have some crowd control whereas sentinels are pure DPS and wear medium as opposed to heavy armor, meaning they're a non-ranged paper cannon. Also, having a tank spec means you won't be bloody worthless in the endgame.

 

And you had to level two characters to 45/50 in order to have them.

 

Like I said, she doesn't do alts. Hates them, in fact, so she won't be leveling a new character. She'll be unsubbing.

 

Explain to me how being able to AC respec once every 30 DAYS is somehow "having both".

 

If the respec involves:

 

-waiting 30 days (or let it happen only once and then you're DEFINITELY stuck with it)

-having to rebuy ALL skills for that AC

-a hefty respec fee

 

I don't see how this could be abused or even remotely unacceptable. It could, however, save subs for people who kept saying "Maybe it gets fun at 20, maybe 30, I hear it gets fun at 40", etc.

Edited January 30, 2012 by TheRealDestian

[Danapa]

/sign

[Sai-to]

 

I don't see how this could be abused or even remotely unacceptable. It could, however, save subs for people who kept saying "Maybe it gets fun at 20, maybe 30, I hear it gets fun at 40", etc.

 

 

1) Player won't know their class.

 

2) Storyline questing would become broken, since storylines are based on class.

 

3) Player would invest less time in the game, hence reducing the money BW would make from them.

 

4) No MMO in the history of MMOs has let you change your class and keep the level. FFXI allowed you to change class, but you had to level up the class separately.

[aznthecapn]

how many times have you been trying to throw together a Flashpoint with members recruited from general chat only to find your lacking something, be it a healer or a tank.

 

You spend five more minutes in chat looking for the right role. You don't need AC change to solve this problem.

[aznthecapn]

I used to be anti AC-respec until I realized that many people are leveling a class and sadly learning that it's not what they had hoped or thought it would be.

 

This is the only possibly valid reason for wanting to change your AC and it should be done below max level and in a controlled fashion (limited changes per level, large fee, long cooldown). Once you hit 50 you have to pick one or the other, no changes allowed, no "fixes" because you "misclicked".

[aznthecapn]

Would love to be able to do an advanced class respec, even if there was some long convoluted quest I had to do to "retrain my mind" or something so you couldn't just quickly switch between them. Choice is always the best option in any game. It would also give you something else to do in the game.

 

Why anyone would be against this or dual spec is beyond me, CHOICE IS GOOD!

 

Choice has its limits. In SWTOR, and many RPG style games that choice ends when it comes to selecting your class. You've picked it, learn to love it or roll a new one. Changing at max level because of balance issues, bugs and boredom are not a valid reason to implement AC changes.

[DaxRendar]

This is the only possibly valid reason for wanting to change your AC and it should be done below max level and in a controlled fashion (limited changes per level, large fee, long cooldown). Once you hit 50 you have to pick one or the other, no changes allowed, no "fixes" because you "misclicked".

 

The only way I might be able to support AC Respecs is if they are both "time-limited" (once every 60 days or something) and they cost about $25-30 of real money.

 

If people really want to respec - let BioWare recoup all the costs of implementing it and make some extra to use on more Content for the rest of us.

[Vlacke]

AC is not something that should be allowed to change.

They are unique classes, very different from one another.

[TheRealDestian]

1) Player won't know their class.

 

Then it's up to them to learn it.

 

2) Storyline questing would become broken, since storylines are based on class.

 

I've leveled both a gunslinger and scoundrel to 18+ and I have yet to see any hint of class quest divergence.

 

3) Player would invest less time in the game, hence reducing the money BW would make from them.

 

Or maybe they would run lots of operations and PvP with a class they genuinely enjoy playing as opposed to unsubbing because they hate their class and don't wish to level another because they assume they'll hate it just as much.

 

People keep making the bold and illogical assumption that if someone doesn't like their class that they're going to stick around to level another one, when the reality is that they're far more likely to just unsub.

 

Giving them one free AC respec at least gives them a CHANCE to try something they might enjoy. Forcing them to level an alt in order to determine whether or not they hate the game as a whole will end the sub.

 

I know of two sentinels who I wish could respec to guardian because I suspect it would encourage them to actually stick around until endgame. As it stands, one is already halfway out the door (convinced that because sentinel sucks, the game sucks) and the other probably isn't far behind him.

 

4) No MMO in the history of MMOs has let you change your class and keep the level. FFXI allowed you to change class, but you had to level up the class separately.

 

Yes, and no one tried to make an MMO casual-friendly before WoW.

 

Breaking new ground can often be to your benefit.

Edited January 30, 2012 by TheRealDestian

[Girltank]

It should be allowed, people couldn't possibly understand what they are choosing when they select their advanced class until they are experience players. For this reason, players should have the versatility to change advance class once.

 

I see no harm to the game for doing so, it won't create a balance issue with anything, it will just allow players the opportunity to play the class/advanced class they really enjoy playing.

[TheRealDestian]

It should be allowed, people couldn't possibly understand what they are choosing when they select their advanced class until they are experience players.

 

A fantastic point and one that's impossible to argue with.

 

People kept saying that sentinel gets better around 30. They were wrong.

[Sabarok]

Breaking new ground can often be to your benefit

 

And sometimes breaking new ground will destroy everything. SWG learned this the hard way when they tried to "appease the masses" by making Jedis easier to get. It destroyed the value of being a Jedi in that game, which drove away subscription numbers.

 

Being able to change your class has been done before, and it's called FF XI. They designed their entire system around it. They still require you to level each class individually, you don't get anything unearned.

 

Changing your class while keeping your level is the cheat code of MMOs. It gives you something that wasn't earned. If you level your gunslinger to 50, you've earned that gunslinger. You haven't earned a scoundrel, and you also haven't earned a sage. If you've leveled a Gunslinger and hate it and demand an AC reset or you unsub, so BW gives it to you and then realize you hate scoundrel even more, should Bioware now let you keep changing your base class too until they make you happy?

 

Think about some of the players demanding it. They're bored of their class, so bored that they're ready to unsubscribe instead of rolling a new character and they want a brand new level 50 they've never touched before. They might not even have any usable weapons or armour. If they were to get it, they'd first get overwhelmed with all the new abilities as they try and figure out what everything does. There's a whole new gameplay aspect that the players need to learn. There's a steep learning curve where the players will have a hard time doing anything because they just don't know their class. They'll be frustrated as they try and figure this out. These are players who are already bored, and since they reset their class, they can't even switch back to the character they already know because it's gone. If the player doesn't unsubscribe in frustration at the new class they have no idea how to play, what will they do when they get bored of the new class? What if they never like the new class? These players aren't going to be very stable subscriptions.

 

If being able to change your class is all that's keeping you from subbing, subscription MMOs just aren't for you. Try single player games where no-one will care if you use a character editor to change around your class. Some F2P games just might let you buy all the end-game stuff instead of earning it.

 

In the short & long run, BW would lose far more subs to implementing a class reset than they'll ever lose by not implementing it. Anyone willing to quit over not implementing this is a player that wouldn't be a reliable sub even if it was implemented.

[Sai-to]

Then it's up to them to learn it.

 

Not on my time, which is what it would be. There would be tons of level 50s that have no idea what they're doing trying to raid and PvP.

 

 

I've leveled both a gunslinger and scoundrel to 18+ and I have yet to see any hint of class quest divergence.

 

But Trooper, JK and JC are completely different.

 

Or maybe they would run lots of operations and PvP with a class they genuinely enjoy playing as opposed to unsubbing because they hate their class and don't wish to level another because they assume they'll hate it just as much.

 

You're making an unsubstantiated assumption that people would rather unsub than level a different class. In fact, your assumption is essentially already proven false by WoW.

[TheRealDestian]

Changing your class while keeping your level is the cheat code of MMOs. It gives you something that wasn't earned. If you level your gunslinger to 50, you've earned that gunslinger. You haven't earned a scoundrel, and you also haven't earned a sage. If you've leveled a Gunslinger and hate it and demand an AC reset or you unsub, so BW gives it to you and then realize you hate scoundrel even more, should Bioware now let you keep changing your base class too until they make you happy?

 

So in other words, you're butthurt about players not doing the "work" to level a class?

 

Why would you POSSIBLY care about this? I support a one-time AC switch because no one actually knows how their class is going to perform endgame until they've leveled it, and they may find they absolutely hate it.

 

And when the hell did the idea of base-class switching come into this? NO ONE is suggesting base-class switching.

 

Not on my time, which is what it would be. There would be tons of level 50s that have no idea what they're doing trying to raid and PvP.

 

There will be those anyway because all of the content is solo friendly and can be blundered through by a chimpanzee drunk on a case of malt liquor.

 

And if someone cares enough to switch ACs, my guess is they'd care enough to learn the class before blindly stumbling into FPs.

 

But Trooper, JK and JC are completely different.

 

We're talking about AC switching, not BASE-CLASS switching, and the story for the two ACs is identical. The sage and assassin have the EXACT same class quest.

 

You're making an unsubstantiated assumption that people would rather unsub than level a different class. In fact, your assumption is essentially already proven false by WoW.

 

1. My "unsubstantiated assumption" is actually based on the experience of seeing people cry BS because they don't like the sentinel class so much and don't realize why it sucks so badly to solo with the class.

 

2. How on earth does WoW prove ANYTHING AT ALL in this discussion? How in the HELL do you come to the conclusion that people will level alts because of WoW?

 

I know a few people who played vanilla WoW and made the mistake of leveling a warrior, the MOST gear-dependent class in the game which sucks *** unless it has good gear. Those people had all quit. Had they rolled a class that WASN'T so gear dependent, they might've stuck around.

 

Right now, I've already lost one guildie who made the mistake of leveling a sentinel: he's having a difficult time with class quest content that should be soloable, probably because the sentinel has a hard time until it gets the healer companion around level 34ish (something I've heard lots of sentinels say, FYI), and even then, the class brings nothing to the table except DPS.

 

Bottom line, the class wasn't for him, but how the hell could he have known that by the description alone? A dual-wielding DPS jedi sounds FANTASTIC on paper. It's only when you actually PLAY the class that you see its shortcomings.

 

Thus, I say give everyone one AC switch. They can never go back to their old class and they might just keep playing instead of assuming that the rest of the classes are just as bad as the one they leveled and don't like.

[oakamp]

AC is not something that should be allowed to change.

They are unique classes, very different from one another.

 

wrong, im 50 , and i dont like my AC,

cause it is not as useful as it wrote,

BW, let user change their AC.

[Mormoz]

Some ACs have different armour requirements, in addition to weapon requirements. Assassin going to Sorceror would be unable to wear their current set of armour. It would be simplest if all equipment was removed, then the class changed, and any equipment that can still be equipped can now be re-equipped. AO has a similar process for to reset skill points (in that game, the only differences between the classes are the skill point costs & spells), though they never implemented a class change even though it would be far simpler to do in AO than it would in SWTOR.

 

Alright, so it would take a lot of effort to change your AC, proving that this is not something that you'll do a lot. (Theoretically if you're a 24/7 player you can get 2 sets of equipment and enough of money to afford each time your skill change). It would be possible to put a one month cooldown on it, or something, but once again then people will be whining, like me now, to lower it. So yeah, it'll be up to Bioware to say then that thats all they will get concerning AC respec.

 

On a side note: I saw some people being against an AC-respec because they disliked the fact of 'easily levelling', I admit that this will be possible (not my reason why I want an AC respec, but still). But how does this bother you? Its like saying, I don't like chocolate cookies, so I don't want them to get sold anymore. Just play your class/AC of choice, have fun and you'll be fine. The thing for us is that, that's not entirely possible, since we've made at level 10 a mistake, the wrong choice. And we would love to fix that, without having to do the entire questline and other quests all over again.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Mormoz