Idockdudes Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 This is all my personal opinion, if you think I am wrong please let me know. I think that these teams have a plan and they make it a point to stick to their plan. I also feel like it is common practice to ignore people that complain about things too much. I kind of understand that because people complain about everything. I think this practice has led to design teams ignoring players TOO MUCH. This game is a perfect example of rediculous activity design that had to be brought up by someone and then ignored. The major specific complaints I have are no combat logs making PvE uninteresting, Ilum or any world PvP being designed poorly and other factors which make it a bad experience and boring instanced PvP. Now the Warzones arent bad, but since they are the only part of the game I enjoy I have overplayed them and now Im bored. I could keep going but I dont want to make this post too long. I just feel like design teams are ignoring people too much. When it comes to balance issues I think its ok, but everywhere else you should listen to your player base. At the end of the day designers put out a game and you decide if you like it or not and want to play, I get that. I have made my choice already, but I am not going to say what it is as I dont want that to be the topic of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valperion Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 No offense, but I enjoy "NCsoft" games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBirdy Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Any designer has thought up your ideas and a million more, problem is its not all down to the designer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unpleasant Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Players are not being ignored. Also, you're getting the combat logs that you care about so much. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogoo Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 The problem with MMO designers is that they design games that their coders just can't code properly. Name one recent AAA MMO that does not have performance issues in PvP zones or towns. Rift ? Nope, 20 fps, no matter what settings we use. Age Of Conan ? Well that one is rather famous for it's shoddy engine. Warhammer Online ? Framerate issues were one of the reasons that killed the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerdoc Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 If lack of combat log makes PVE for you uninteresting, then you have some serious issues dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelestrialFox Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 The problem with MMO designers is that they design games that their coders just can't code properly. Name one recent AAA MMO that does not have performance issues in PvP zones or towns. Rift ? Nope, 20 fps, no matter what settings we use. Age Of Conan ? Well that one is rather famous for it's shoddy engine. Warhammer Online ? Framerate issues were one of the reasons that killed the game. Isn't FPS issues dependent upon your own set up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerdoc Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Isn't FPS issues dependent upon your own set up? Only in part. There is also net code and optimization of game engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUnNamedHero Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 When it comes to balance issues I think its ok, but everywhere else you should listen to your player base. I already played Cataclysm. Don't feel like going back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogoo Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Isn't FPS issues dependent upon your own set up? Phenom X6, 16 GB Ram, 2 x 6870 in crossfire. Doubt it. Haven't tried WAR with this setup, but back then I used to have a pretty decent rig too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolarus Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Best part of MMO's is they are in a constant state of 'upgrading/fixing/whatever'. With the amount of items a team has to create and implement into an mmo of this scale there simply isn't enough time to get everything done. Milestones have to be met in the development process. There are thousands of awesome ideas that come out in the early design phase that never make it into the game. The true judge of a great mmo studio is their ability (within reason) to take feedback from the community and make changes and/or add new features. Again, that's the great potential in mmorpg's. Edited January 14, 2012 by Tolarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idockdudes Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 I might be way off, but I just feel like there are so many issues with this game right now and then they release this first patch. The only information I could find on this patch is a new Flashpoint and Operation content. Im sure there are different teams working on everything so the fact that this new content is coming out has nothing to do with the other issues. Still as a player I dont like to hear about new content coming out when I have a new issue everyday that makes me like the game less and less. And these issues are all piling up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XoChineXo Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) It's because you are looking in the wrong places. AAA, big budget game designers...YES. Make no two heads about it, the $$ is first and foremost driver. I won't go into details, but just think about everything that has happened along your SWTOR experience. LA owns the IP; regardless of what anyone says, they have a huge hand in this. Just as they had a huge hand in their last MMO they licensed to that other gaming company. They tried to transform that game into what this game is currently. The executives of the company are the primary driving force of direction. Independent, low budge game designers...Not So Much. The drive is usually innovation and niche market gaming. Players have a huge driving force of direction in these gaming communities. Edited January 14, 2012 by XoChineXo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafkin Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 The biggest problem for the mmo genre the last ten years is that design teams answer to marketing teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idockdudes Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 If lack of combat log makes PVE for you uninteresting, then you have some serious issues dude. I guess I have serious issues then. I guess other games have spoiled me at the very least, like to look through my combat log after I die to see what killed me. Combat logs seem like a real no brainer to me. It helps people catch bugs and checking to see if things are working as intended. You get a lot of frustrated people out there when they have no way of verifying what happened to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolarus Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) LOL also, what Rafkin just said ^ Ahahhah Edited January 14, 2012 by Tolarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uruz Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 This is all my personal opinion, if you think I am wrong please let me know. I think that these teams have a plan and they make it a point to stick to their plan. I also feel like it is common practice to ignore people that complain about things too much. I kind of understand that because people complain about everything. I think this practice has led to design teams ignoring players TOO MUCH. This game is a perfect example of rediculous activity design that had to be brought up by someone and then ignored. The major specific complaints I have are no combat logs making PvE uninteresting, Ilum or any world PvP being designed poorly and other factors which make it a bad experience and boring instanced PvP. Now the Warzones arent bad, but since they are the only part of the game I enjoy I have overplayed them and now Im bored. I could keep going but I dont want to make this post too long. I just feel like design teams are ignoring people too much. When it comes to balance issues I think its ok, but everywhere else you should listen to your player base. At the end of the day designers put out a game and you decide if you like it or not and want to play, I get that. I have made my choice already, but I am not going to say what it is as I dont want that to be the topic of this thread. In this day and age - it takes a lot more work to create new and interesting content to keep people interested. Other MMO's have problems keeping people interested as well. The problem isn't with MMO designers - it's with players wanting perks and luxuries they have in other games to be in this game. You are correct in by saying it's your choice - you are the paying customer and if you don't like something - don't pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idockdudes Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 In this day and age - it takes a lot more work to create new and interesting content to keep people interested. Other MMO's have problems keeping people interested as well. The problem isn't with MMO designers - it's with players wanting perks and luxuries they have in other games to be in this game. You are correct in by saying it's your choice - you are the paying customer and if you don't like something - don't pay for it. I get that you cant please everyone. There are some designs in games though that dont seem like anyone would enjoy them and those are the things that need to be heard ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Interesting discussion. Let's try to turn this around to your own life and your own job. Let's say you draw comic books for a living. You have a monthly deadline. You just finished 12 of your 22 pages by January 14. You send in copies to your editor via e-mail. He looks at them and shoots back some feedback. He tells you that panel 6 on page 8 is unacceptable. It needs a different perspective, different lighting and overall needs to convey the action of movement better. You think, ok, I got a couple of extra hours this weekend, I can correct that. But wait, there's more. How could you draw this entire sequence on page 3? The writer already sent a rewrite of that! You have to redraw it. Uh-oh, you've still got 10 more actual pages to draw for your deadline and you're getting bogged down having to re-draw an entire page. Oh wait, there's more. You didn't use the proper borders on Pages 1, 5 and 10. They need to be out of the box and you used boxes. I mean who reads comic books in 2012 with actual boxes and borders? UNACCEPTABLE! And on and on and on. Until you miss your deadline. Or you and your editor suck it up. Do the fixes you can. And go to print. That's how this game can launch without everything in pristine and perfect working condition. Whatever your job is, I'm sure you can find situations where your boss just didn't have a realistic expectation of the time you have available and the approaching deadline. And in business, sometimes you simply can't keep pushing your deadline back further and further. Especially if it's only to fix the drilldown capabilities of the Galactic Trade Network Database for search capabilities or the ability to resize your UI tab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krinaman Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 The problem with MMO players: They all think designing and developing a MMO is easy. That each and every feature can be implimented before release. That a game of this size can be released completely bug free. That changes can be made in hours, tested to be 100% bug free, and released without downing the servers. That the game should be designed around them and ignore anybody else's opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafkin Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 The problem with MMO players: They all think designing and developing a MMO is easy. That each and every feature can be implimented before release. That a game of this size can be released completely bug free. That changes can be made in hours, tested to be 100% bug free, and released without downing the servers. That the game should be designed around them and ignore anybody else's opinions. There are bugs and then there are BUGS. Not being able to emote from a mount was a bug. Not having party chat is a BUG. There are bugs you can fix after release and there are BUGS you must fix before release. Allowing slicing to launch as it was pure laziness. They had all the data and player reports for three months prior to release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekkoclarky Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) The problem with MMO players: They all think designing and developing a MMO is easy. That each and every feature can be implimented before release. That a game of this size can be released completely bug free. That changes can be made in hours, tested to be 100% bug free, and released without downing the servers. That the game should be designed around them and ignore anybody else's opinions. I pretty much agree with this. SWTOR is a great game and it can only get better. Edited January 14, 2012 by Tekkoclarky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) This is all my personal opinion, if you think I am wrong please let me know. I think that these teams have a plan and they make it a point to stick to their plan. I also feel like it is common practice to ignore people that complain about things too much. I kind of understand that because people complain about everything. I think this practice has led to design teams ignoring players TOO MUCH. This game is a perfect example of rediculous activity design that had to be brought up by someone and then ignored. The major specific complaints I have are no combat logs making PvE uninteresting, Ilum or any world PvP being designed poorly and other factors which make it a bad experience and boring instanced PvP. Now the Warzones arent bad, but since they are the only part of the game I enjoy I have overplayed them and now Im bored. I could keep going but I dont want to make this post too long. I just feel like design teams are ignoring people too much. When it comes to balance issues I think its ok, but everywhere else you should listen to your player base. At the end of the day designers put out a game and you decide if you like it or not and want to play, I get that. I have made my choice already, but I am not going to say what it is as I dont want that to be the topic of this thread. Well, you've clearly thought about this alot. I think there is some merit to what you say. However, the way I view it is, MMO's are extremely difficult to create and in order to be successful, the designer and developers need to put a lot of thought in ahead of time on how they are going to code it, balance it, how difficult they are going to make it, what is their target audience....etc. These kinda of decisions, once made, are hard to reverse. Now, you have the playerbase come in, and play the game. They will of course see many things that differ from what they would like to see in the game and come here to the boards and "complain" about their absence. However, some of that stuff (a lot of that stuff) differs from the vision the designers had in mind for the game. So, the playerbase that makes those complaints will feel they are being ignored. It's probably not the case, but just players and designers differing on the direction of the game. Edited January 14, 2012 by Vydor_HC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chosenxeno Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Why do I have to keep reminding PVPers that they don't matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idockdudes Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 Well, you've clearly thought about this alot. I think there is some merit to what you say. However, the way I view it is, MMO's are extremely difficult to create and in order to be successful, the designer and developers need to put a lot of thought in ahead of time on how they are going to code it, balance it, how difficult they are going to make it, what is their target audience....etc. These kinda of decisions, once made, are hard to reverse. Now, you have the playerbase come in, and play the game. They will of course see many things that differ from what they would like to see in the game and come here to the boards and "complain" about their absence. However, some of that stuff (a lot of that stuff) differs from the vision the designers had in mind for the game. So, the playerbase that makes those complaints will feel they are being ignored. It's probably not the case, but just players and designers differing on the direction of the game. Right you kind of understand what I was saying. I understand its not easy work and that you arent going to make everyone happy. I feel like sometimes though they make choices too far in advance, especially when its around release, and then maybe they realize that a choice wasnt a good one or people want something very different than what your design team has been working on it for so long. They have put so much time into it though that they are unwilling to stop and focus on the things the players want. Now I am not in the business and pretty ignorant, but this is how it looks from my perspective. I understand its hard work. To the people that act like this is the best game since sliced bread, there are huge issues with this game. Even if you choose to ignore them they are still there. This thread is not really for beating them up about those issues, but more to discuss what seems to be an out of touch design team to some of the player base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts