[Official High Resolution Textures Post] Can we get a clarification on this?

[Sunsoar]

 

During development and testing of The Old Republic, our priorities were to ensure the game looked great and performed well. In testing, we discovered that using our 'maximum resolution' textures on in-game characters during normal gameplay could cause severe performance issues, even on powerful PCs.

 

 

This is a lie. Made up false garbage. This is what they fed us.

 

i7 950, 6gb 1600mhz, X58 Sabertooth, 600w CM, EVGA 465GTX, Win7 64bit handled this game early beta, and after they introduced high res textures to us fine. I couldn't turn everything up with high res and get 60fps constant so I eventually turned my machine into:

 

i7 950 @ 4ghz, 12gb 1866mhz, X58 Saber, 750XFX XXX PSU, 6970 Lightning, Win 64bit, and all the little goodies like SSD drives, aftermarket coolers (noctua) all inside a HAF 932.

 

Still ran the beta fine up into the weekend tests too. This is what kills me. I think they took our High res away so that people that game on laptops on 'ancient' machines can't try and play on those settings and be disappointed.

[DarkSeverance]

We're saying: "We saw these textures in beta, we see them still in press release screenshots and videos, we want these textures."

 

BioWare response: "Those textures aren't possible because this is a MMO, but in 1.2 the game will look less bad."

I'll highlight the important part. It was Beta. Nothing in beta is set in stone, period. And the real High res graphics people are talking about that were actually in General beta was way before there were even planets. That aside. There is a reason they were taken out. It usually has to do with the programming or the engine itself. The fact that it was beta with not even the fraction of the servers or people means there is a reason they aren't available.

 

No company spends time with that much work to just not use it. Although it could be argued they are to be used only in cut scenes, but that is more conjecture still. There are most likely actual real reasons "those" textures aren't possible.

 

I still see Nighelf Mohawks in WoW screenshots and Chuck Norris, as well as him doing a flying kick... man didn't know you could do that in WoW. Oh wait... you can't. Welcome to media. And since 1.1 isn't active yet, I can't 100% say what is actual combat footage of real players vs it was a gameplay footage of characters watching a report (which would be cinematic graphics) on what happened.

[Unruhe]

Yeah what they are upset about is they didn't get "We will make High Res textures available". Because that is all they are looking at. They are there, so they should be able to use them. The reason they didn't say that, because ultimately the fix may not be that simple. Optimization could require them redoing parts of the engine and the graphics entirely to make them better. But if he they said the above, then people would make more posts about lies because that is what they said. They want to nitpick.

 

Now those that really care, just want them to improve the game and that does include improve the quality of the graphics. *cough* "graphical fidelity" ... oh wait I don't think they really care afterall since its all big corporate, lies to them and all an conspiracy.

 

49.999999999999% texture compression is better than 50% texture compression. That's essentially all BioWare promised you.

 

Given that they lied about the texture options in the first place, then tried to cover it up, then gave us this 11th hour response after multiple 100+ page threads, I don't trust them to deliver on actual promises, but would be at least somewhat willing to because I genuinely like the game.

 

Instead of apologizing and fixing the issue (or even saying they fully intend to fix it) they give us a vague promise that could ultimately result in next to nothing.

 

I'm not going to feed money to that. It's kind of stupid to, honestly. I mean, if you like the game and don't hate the fact that it looks like dogbarf and worse than any other modern MMO, then that's one thing, but if you are upset or put off by the abysmal graphical presentation of this game, it's foolish to think throwing money at BioWare will eventually result in a significantly more polished product when, to date, they've given you nothing of substance to support that belief.

[Urko]

I want to play with higher settings than we have at present too.

[DarkSeverance]

This is a lie. Made up false garbage.

So the beta where everyone says they worked, had how many servers and players compared to an actual live server? Oh wait it wasn't even during a stress test, it never made it that far. Hhhhmmmm actually it sounds like beta did do what it was supposed to do.

 

Still ran the beta fine up into the weekend tests too.

Beta test weekend didn't have high rest textures.

[Daygobag]

I want highrez textures also.. This is a 2011/12 MMO if you have a good machine you should have the option to run the high rez textures

[Unruhe]

Yes, your argument is miles away from what we're hoping for. However, you have provided no proof for your argument.

 

Have you heard of Russell's teapot?

 

Proof of what part, exactly? If this thread doesn't include it (it does, promise you that) I can start listing evidence (in other words, reposting) to back up everything I've said.

[Sunsoar]

So the beta where everyone says they worked, had how many servers and players compared to an actual live server? Oh wait it wasn't even during a stress test, it never made it that far. Hhhhmmmm actually it sounds like beta did do what it was supposed to do.

 

Beta test weekend didn't have high rest textures.

 

UP TO the weekend beta tests! Read son, read.

 

And the beta servers right before weekend tests started were actual as populated as heavy servers are today.

[Unruhe]

So the beta where everyone says they worked, had how many servers and players compared to an actual live server? Oh wait it wasn't even during a stress test, it never made it that far. Hhhhmmmm actually it sounds like beta did do what it was supposed to do.

 

Because server load has anything to do with client rendering, amirite?

[Vlaxitov]

I'm not lying. He never, not once, ever said anything remotely close to "we're working to get high resolution/cutscene textures back in normal gameplay."

 

Not once.

 

"Improved graphical fidelity" does mean "better graphics" -- I never argued that.

 

Graphical fidelity =/= graphical quality.

 

So what the guy actually said is they will work on a more accurate reproduction of their original high res textures during gameplay. The language was meant to be more specific than "were going to improve the graphics" and its too bad you really must not understand what was said.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Vlaxitov

[Unruhe]

Some people missed this link the first time, I guess. Don't tell me what the guy "actually" said because we can all plainly see what he "actually" said. You're putting words into his mouth, not me, and calling me the liar.

 

Funny.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Unruhe

[PacificaSolaria]

Because server load has anything to do with client rendering, amirite?

 

It shouldn't, but I've heard or read some where that in this case it is linked in some crazy sort of way.

 

Perhaps the servers aren't just rendering position and frameworks of the zones.

Edited January 14, 2012 by PacificaSolaria

[Vlaxitov]

Some people missed this link the first time, I guess. Don't tell me what the guy "actually" said because we can all plainly see what he "actually" said. You're putting words into his mouth, not me, and calling me the liar.

 

Funny.

 

I'm telling you how the language clearly reads. I'm sorry you don't get it. Those of us who understand english at a higher level than fourth grade get it.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Vlaxitov

[Kayla_Shadowsong]

The LOD tweak and disabling AA and then forcing it with nvidia inspector after playing around with it picked up 20-40 fps in most areas and dramatically improved the quality of every graphic except for flat textures with complex patterns like that on most Jedi/sith robes... such a shame that I mostly play as an assassin.

 

It really is like a difrent game with lots of graphical bells and whistles, a shame that you can't enable any of it in game, but you get close to what it should look like. It still doesn't fix the texture problem, but it makes it bearable for now.

 

on a side note a game engine is seriously broken if you hit 100+ fps with all sorts of advanced options forced on in the nvidia driver and you struggle to maintain 60 fps with the game's own settings. Forcing higher settings with the driver should be a loss in performance not the other way around because they haven't been optimized for the game engine.

[Sunsoar]

Here is some early SS of beta. I am talking March-May early.

 

Here

 

Here too

 

Here

 

Warrior

 

Draw Distance

 

I have more, and I am sorry they're in JPG (lower quality) but you can see that the textures in some are nice, smooth and detailed.

 

Here is a funny one

Funny

[Zorvan]

Lie moar plox..

 

The words improved and graphical are self explanitory. Fidelity in the context it was used means reproduced in high detail and accuracy with little distortion. Thats way more specific than saying "working on improving graphics." Read a book maybe?

 

Want to talk about lies? Let's talk about Stephen Reid, the one who also made the comment of "graphical fidelity" you're so stuck on, telling us with a supposedly straight face that the game was never supposed to have a "medium setting" option and the only reason it has a "medium setting" is because it's a bug.

 

Let's talk about Stephen Reid telling us high res textures can't be had ingame when I'm quite confident he knew quite well the new gameplay videos and screenshots for the 1.1 content were all made with high res textures and better lighting enabled, therefore misrepresenting ( i.e. falsely advertising ) the product/service being sold.

 

So yeah, let's talk about lie moar, plx.

[Vehlin]

I'm telling you how the language clearly reads. I'm sorry you don't get it. Those of us who understand english at a higher level than fourth grade get it.

 

Not wanting to burst your bubble but you have to read a post from a PR dept (which Customer Relations is) EXACTLY as it is written. It's like when you read a contract, you don't try and infer what you THINK the contract is trying to say; you read what it actually says, otherwise it'll come back to bite you.

 

Anything the BW posers say can and will be brought out against them in the future if it is proved to be false, therefore they have to be very careful never to actually promise anything. Nowhere does he state that the texture quality will improve, just that they aim to improve the graphics. It's the same as you complaining that your car doesn't accelerate very quickly and me promising to improve its performance, I then improve its top speed by 5% and say "there you go, I improved its performance".

 

Fundamentally it's not an issue of "understanding English" as you put it, but one of reading what was said as written, not as you thought the poster meant.

[DarkSeverance]

49.999999999999% texture compression is better than 50% texture compression. That's essentially all BioWare promised you.

No that would be an opinion.

 

Given that they lied about the texture options in the first place, then tried to cover it up, then gave us this 11th hour response after multiple 100+ page threads, I don't trust them to deliver on actual promises, but would be at least somewhat willing to because I genuinely like the game.

See and here is the biggest issue right here. I actually work in software development as a project manager. I'm usually in the development meetings so I know what features for our products will be available and able to pass that on to customers. The majority of the time they are accurate and correct. Sometimes however something doesn't become available or testing during beta shows that it won't work properly to the company standards and doesn't get released. I didn't lie but I also don't know the specifics. I try to give the best answers I can... but since I'm not actually programming it or know what the real issue is, I can only generalize and promise that we are working on improving the functionality and get it to work.

 

But you actually don't trust them. Which is fine. But you do like the game except for one tiny detail, graphics.... that makes this whole post funny. You enjoy the game but don't like the graphics. But you don't trust the company and still responding when they gave an answer. For the record it doesn't matter how many pages the thread gets, its the same people responding. We've just made 10 posts int he past 15 minutes.

 

There was an answer. Some people don't' like it. Just going to have to wait or not and waste time and energy for a company you don't trust.

 

I'm not going to feed money to that. It's kind of stupid to, honestly. I mean, if you like the game and don't hate the fact that it looks like dogbarf and worse than any other modern MMO.

That is fine if you don't want to subscribe. Considering how much it is for my wife and I to go to a movie and enjoy a couple hours and the fact that we don't always like the movie. We both actually have gotten our moneys worth and still enjoying it.

 

However it doesn't look like dogbarf to me:

http://northwestwowtcg.com/images/Screenshot_2012-01-03_09_36_23_876892.jpg

http://northwestwowtcg.com/images/Screenshot_2012-01-04_19_14_42_513301.jpg

http://northwestwowtcg.com/images/Screenshot_2012-01-11_12_31_14_591530.jpg

http://northwestwowtcg.com/images/Screenshot_2012-01-12_16_08_19_917789.jpg

http://northwestwowtcg.com/images/Screenshot_2012-01-14_08_57_52_134048.jpg

http://northwestwowtcg.com/images/Screenshot_2012-01-12_17_09_00_373011.jpg

http://northwestwowtcg.com/images/Screenshot_2011-12-31_16_27_19_064437.jpg

http://northwestwowtcg.com/images/Screenshot_2011-12-31_16_27_11_052979.jpg

http://northwestwowtcg.com/images/Screenshot_2012-01-13_15_26_29_785058.jpg

http://northwestwowtcg.com/images/Screenshot_2012-01-14_09_03_08_412138.jpg

http://northwestwowtcg.com/images/Screenshot_2012-01-13_15_26_22_386634.jpg

http://northwestwowtcg.com/images/Screenshot_2012-01-14_09_14_44_982979.jpg

http://northwestwowtcg.com/images/Screenshot_2011-12-31_16_26_38_412112.jpg

http://northwestwowtcg.com/images/Screenshot_2012-01-13_15_13_52_061718.jpg

 

By the way this is what dogbar looks like:

http://stevekulpa.net/buddyp.jpg

Edited January 14, 2012 by DarkSeverance

[Unruhe]

I'm telling you how the language clearly reads. I'm sorry you don't get it. Those of us who understand english at a higher level than fourth grade get it.

 

Did your higher-than-4th-grade English give you the definition of improve?

 

Improve is relative. What we have now is crap. "Less-crap-like" is improved, but still crap. He doesn't promise "not crap", he only promises "less-crap-like".

 

If he promised "not crap" then I think most of the people upset with the textures would be put a little more at ease.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Unruhe

[Unruhe]

By the way this is what dogbar looks like:

http://stevekulpa.net/buddyp.jpg

 

My character looks pretty damn close.

 

Edit - Also, showing environment screenshots to support your argument when the issue is player-character (and most NPC) textures is laughable at best.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Unruhe

[DarkSeverance]

Because server load has anything to do with client rendering, amirite?

No but depending on the engine and issues they are having, the client can be effected if the server can't send the current world state to it properly.

[DarkSeverance]

Warrior

What armor is that? I'd like to see a current screenshot in that same armor though.

 

Here

His armor actually looks the same currently. Since that is actually the only thing that I can match up with something current. It still is flat. Not all armor textures are the same as you have demonstrated through your screenshots.

[barwnKesteven]

Not wanting to burst your bubble but you have to read a post from a PR dept (which Customer Relations is) EXACTLY as it is written. It's like when you read a contract, you don't try and infer what you THINK the contract is trying to say; you read what it actually says, otherwise it'll come back to bite you.

 

Anything the BW posers say can and will be brought out against them in the future if it is proved to be false, therefore they have to be very careful never to actually promise anything.

 

 

+1

 

As someone who works in marketing for a giant company and has discussions like this about what we post on message boards or issue via a release, the truth is pretty much just what you've said - never promise anything.

 

 

One other thing I get a chuckle out of relative to all this...even in beta there were some less than spectacular textures out there on some items. When someone would bring it up in the forums, the apologists would howl to be quiet and state emphatically that the graphics would get better at launch.

 

Me thinks we're still in beta...?

[DarkSeverance]

My character looks pretty damn close.

 

Edit - Also, showing environment screenshots to support your argument when the issue is player-character (and most NPC) textures is laughable at best.

Considering I don't play zoomed in on my character, staring at only his face while I'm playing... I'm actually showing what a player will see. And there are only a few environment screenshots, I showed a broad spectrum... since everyone seems to focus on just one thing. Not to mention showing a screenshot of an outfit that is just a bad texture period doesn't support your argument.

 

If I'm not going to show the whole picture and only want to focus one small piece, then I might as well just show this:

http://www.northwestwowtcg.com/images/WoWScrnShot_011412_084903.jpg

 

Because obviously all textures = the same, right?

[Sunsoar]

What armor is that? I'd like to see a current screenshot in that same armor though.

 

His armor actually looks the same currently. Since that is actually the only thing that I can match up with something current. It still is flat. Not all armor textures are the same as you have demonstrated through your screenshots.

 

Those are all low level armors because I find it more easily comparable to other people's low level armor showings.

 

That armor is the old level 20 pvp armor I think, but my memory is so faded it probably more like the old level 40 armor.

 

I feel like other picture you say is current isn't really though. I think the textures on the droid pop out more, and the clothes details come out more as well. Wrinkles and such.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Sunsoar