Super Simple PvP Fix.

[Snakeloki]

Anyone who thinks expertise is okay are the same people who are using expertise and soloing battlegrounds

[GyroGate]

These threads.

 

They always pop up in games that actually tend to focus towards PvP.

 

People do not want to work on their skill level & gear in PvP, they believe it's supposed to be the same for everyone - that they should be able to win 99-100% of the time against more experienced and skilled players when joining their first Warzone.

 

Oh ignorance is bliss, isn't it. I've played PvP MMos since DAoC launched, and that game had a similar way of rewarding it's PvP players - through the Realm Rank system, which pretty much unlocked abilities or traits that made you better.

 

I'm sorry, but the way expertise works is beyond fine in my opinion. I just hit 50 a couple of days ago, but I don't mind getting my face crushed by premade expertise Imperials, because I have a spine. I don't get upset when a player with more experience as a level 50 defeats me in combat - just as I don't believe I am the best player in the universe when I outskill a geared opponent.

 

I don't whine when we lose a Warzone.

 

I don't whine all my team mates are level 10.

 

I don't whine when people don't kill enemy healers first.

 

I don't whine when someone makes a mistake.

 

Wanna know why? Because I don't expect anything from my pickup groups, and I sure wont get upset because of being outskilled / outplayed in a video game.

 

People will ALWAYS blame either gear, level, luck or some other ignorant thing when they lose a fight in PvP - because they just can't handle being outplayed, it's like they believe themselves that they are just too good to be defeated - but I'm sorry, most of you aren't.

 

TL;DR: Expertise is fine, stop moaning.

[swHERO]

This statement makes no sense.

 

It isn't hard to get the pvp gear.

 

Stop QQing, hit 50, then get geared.

 

This isn't rocket science, stop being lazy.

 

Agree, people need to wtop whining, just get to lvl 50 and start gearing or stop playing pvp before you get lvl 50.

[stevewilson]

Have you seen what shadowmourne did to season 8 in the arena for wow? Or wait until rogues get legendary daggers this season. PVE gear in PVP completely screws the system over. Expertise is needed to stop high end PVE gear screwing up PVP. I should not have to do PVE to PVP. Bioware are doing it right and need to concentrate on the bugs that need fixing / add more PVP content.

[SandTrout]

These threads.

 

They always pop up in games that actually tend to focus towards PvP.

Incorrect, it only pops up in PvE focused games and exceptionally poorly designed PvP focued games.

 

People do not want to work on their skill level & gear in PvP, they believe it's supposed to be the same for everyone - that they should be able to win 99-100% of the time against more experienced and skilled players when joining their first Warzone.

Incorrect. It exists because people want to win 99-100% of the time simply because they've been playing for longer.

 

Oh ignorance is bliss, isn't it. I've played PvP MMos since DAoC launched, and that game had a similar way of rewarding it's PvP players - through the Realm Rank system, which pretty much unlocked abilities or traits that made you better.

WHich didn't exist in the game for several years, and coincided with the game's general fall in popularity. I was there.

 

I'm sorry, but the way expertise works is beyond fine in my opinion. I just hit 50 a couple of days ago, but I don't mind getting my face crushed by premade expertise Imperials, because I have a spine. I don't get upset when a player with more experience as a level 50 defeats me in combat - just as I don't believe I am the best player in the universe when I outskill a geared opponent.

You're a PvEer who thinks he can PvP. PvP is, and has always been, about playing against another player, not about playing against their gear. It is not, and should not, be about grinding your way to superiority except through advancing the skill of the player.

 

I don't whine when we lose a Warzone.

 

I don't whine all my team mates are level 10.

 

I don't whine when people don't kill enemy healers first.

 

I don't whine when someone makes a mistake.

That is because you're interested in a material mark of your superiority, not playing against other players. You don't worry about winning or loosing because you know that you'll just out-equip everyone eventually anyways, so you don't need to learn, improve, or win.

 

Wanna know why? Because I don't expect anything from my pickup groups, and I sure wont get upset because of being outskilled / outplayed in a video game.

Then go PvE.

 

People will ALWAYS blame either gear, level, luck or some other ignorant thing when they lose a fight in PvP - because they just can't handle being outplayed, it's like they believe themselves that they are just too good to be defeated - but I'm sorry, most of you aren't.

You want a material advantage because you can't stand the though of being outplayed. Before you have geared up your character, you can write it off because you weren't geared, or you had a crappy team. Once you are geared, you'll have a substantial advantage to make sure that you don't loose. You're the one who wants a system that allows for people to make excuses. You're the one who wants and out for every time they loose. I want no excuses, because no excuses can be made.

 

TL;DR: Expertise is fine, stop moaning.

Expertise might not be completely game breaking, but nor is it fine. It is an intrinsically divisive mechanic and turns the community into groups of gear-mongering PvPers and PvEers that despise each other.

 

It's amazing how I get insulted by gear-mongers on both sides, accusing me of being someone who plays primarily what they do not.

 

To the PvEers, I'm a PvPer that wants to take away their EPEEN gear.

 

To gear-mongering PvPers, I'm a carebear who wants to roll PvP with my epic PvE gear.

 

If you want the community to hate each other, then yes, Expertise is great. All it can and will do is divide and destroy the community.

[Chiricahua]

I want to leave it alone. The segregated warzones in 1.1 patch will fix my concerns. I'll have to tuff it out when I reach 50 until I get the good gear.

[MightyHalo]

This is the same thing pve'ers tried to do in wow.

[SandTrout]

I want to leave it alone. The segregated warzones in 1.1 patch will fix my concerns. I'll have to tuff it out when I reach 50 until I get the good gear.

Is grinding out your way to battle-master enjoyable to you?

 

Edit: Not trolling, honest question.

Edited January 17, 2012 by SandTrout

[GyroGate]

Incorrect, it only pops up in PvE focused games and exceptionally poorly designed PvP focued games.

 

Incorrect, these threads can be found in every single MMo forum that has more than just Warzones.

 

Incorrect. It exists because people want to win 99-100% of the time simply because they've been playing for longer.

 

Incorrect, the difference between a player with 1-2 pieces of Champion gear and a player with close to full Champion gear is not enough to simply out-gear your opponent.

 

WHich didn't exist in the game for several years, and coincided with the game's general fall in popularity. I was there.

 

The game's general fall in popularity was the launch of World of Warcraft, not the implementation of RR, which most PvP players loved. I was there.

 

You're a PvEer who thinks he can PvP. PvP is, and has always been, about playing against another player, not about playing against their gear. It is not, and should not, be about grinding your way to superiority except through advancing the skill of the player.

 

I have always, and will always - be a PvP player. The difference between you and I is that I do not suggarcoat my defeats with rants about how Expertise>skill. I won't lower myself to the point where I try to attack you personally, so that's all I'm going to say.

 

That is because you're interested in a material mark of your superiority, not playing against other players. You don't worry about winning or loosing because you know that you'll just out-equip everyone eventually anyways, so you don't need to learn, improve, or win.

 

Incorrect. If they found another way to actually implement a system that protects the PvP players from the "Shadowmourne Effect", meaning that you can outgear PvP players with PvE gear, that's all I need. I always worry about winning and losing, but I play my very best to improve my own skill level and attempt to "carry" the team. I spent 3 months of 20+ duels a day against our servers best players in World of Warcaft to reach 2700+ rating in 3v3, while being what other PvP'ers would call "undergeared".

 

Then go PvE.

Why would I? I don't try any less to win because of it, instead like I just wrote, I instead attempt to carry and help my team to victory - instead of getting upset.

 

You want a material advantage because you can't stand the though of being outplayed. Before you have geared up your character, you can write it off because you weren't geared, or you had a crappy team. Once you are geared, you'll have a substantial advantage to make sure that you don't loose. You're the one who wants a system that allows for people to make excuses. You're the one who wants and out for every time they loose. I want no excuses, because no excuses can be made.

 

Incorrect. I LOVE being outplayed - because I always watch every single fight I have with a keen eye, trying to learn how players react to my abilities and what combinations of skills and or counters they might use to defeat me. I attack any player regardless of gear, because gear does not matter to me. I do not vouch for a system that allows players to make excuses, I simply do no want to farm PvE content because I have to, because the equipment is so increadibly overpowered in comparison. Like I said above, if there's another way to fix that - then by all means expertise would no longer be required.

 

Expertise might not be completely game breaking, but nor is it fine. It is an intrinsically divisive mechanic and turns the community into groups of gear-mongering PvPers and PvEers that despise each other.

 

It's amazing how I get insulted by gear-mongers on both sides, accusing me of being someone who plays primarily what they do not.

 

To the PvEers, I'm a PvPer that wants to take away their EPEEN gear.

 

To gear-mongering PvPers, I'm a carebear who wants to roll PvP with my epic PvE gear.

 

If you want the community to hate each other, then yes, Expertise is great. All it can and will do is divide and destroy the community.

 

This is pretty much just a rant, and to me it seems like you think it's you against the world. That might be so, but I do not disagree with you completely either. Like I've said here, if there is another way to make the system balanced without the use of expertise gear, then by all means implement it if it is balanced. I do not find players in expertise gear to be impossible to beat, far from it - as I can be outskilled by other players no matter what gear they have on.

Edited January 17, 2012 by GyroGate

[Hiekrus]

Only thing that separates PVP and PVE gear is Expertise. With expertise, strong items you earned from PVP will work as an avarage item in PVE. That way people won't be able to join hard operations without doing any proper PVE.

[Red_Cruiser]

Only thing that separates PVP and PVE gear is Expertise. With expertise, strong items you earned from PVP will work as an avarage item in PVE. That way people won't be able to join hard operations without doing any proper PVE.

 

PvP gear is screwing up PvE gear progression. If a few champion level PvP items isn't enough for you to completely game the hard modes, you are doing it wrong.

 

Expertise just makes a huge difference in PvP. It's really an overpowered stat.

[thepradda]

These threads.

 

They always pop up in games that actually tend to focus towards PvP.

 

People do not want to work on their skill level & gear in PvP, they believe it's supposed to be the same for everyone - that they should be able to win 99-100% of the time against more experienced and skilled players when joining their first Warzone.

 

Oh ignorance is bliss, isn't it. I've played PvP MMos since DAoC launched, and that game had a similar way of rewarding it's PvP players - through the Realm Rank system, which pretty much unlocked abilities or traits that made you better.

 

I'm sorry, but the way expertise works is beyond fine in my opinion. I just hit 50 a couple of days ago, but I don't mind getting my face crushed by premade expertise Imperials, because I have a spine. I don't get upset when a player with more experience as a level 50 defeats me in combat - just as I don't believe I am the best player in the universe when I outskill a geared opponent.

 

I don't whine when we lose a Warzone.

 

I don't whine all my team mates are level 10.

 

I don't whine when people don't kill enemy healers first.

 

I don't whine when someone makes a mistake.

 

Wanna know why? Because I don't expect anything from my pickup groups, and I sure wont get upset because of being outskilled / outplayed in a video game.

 

People will ALWAYS blame either gear, level, luck or some other ignorant thing when they lose a fight in PvP - because they just can't handle being outplayed, it's like they believe themselves that they are just too good to be defeated - but I'm sorry, most of you aren't.

 

TL;DR: Expertise is fine, stop moaning.

 

Shouldn't have to say much else, but I'll indulge those that still don't fully understand.

 

So lets take away expertise. Now for all you PvE players, we grind our PvP gear just as you do yours. You hit 50, you grind gear, you do HMs and Operations. We hit 50, use up our saved commendations and put on our blue gear and start doing Ilum dailies and WZs. I myself had 1 bag in my inventory and 1000/1000 commendations saved up. Its called planning ahead, its not an advantage, its something we're all capable of. Expertise is our goal. Its what we PvP for. I worked hard to be able to let 6 Imps pound on me and one of my guildies as we 2v6 in Alderaan for the capture point.

 

Just like in WoW. Depending on when you played, (for the more recent WoWers) you hit max level and you GRIND dungeons. You get better gear and then you start to raid. If you PvP you GRIND BGs and do Tol Barads. Its the same concept. Was there this big of an ordeal about resilience?

 

You don't hit 50 and they give you bags with all the gear you need saying, "Have fun." You work hard for progession, be it PvE or PvP. The brackets will do their job. As for wanting to play with low level friends, make an alt. It takes a couple of hours and you're 10. Bam, playing with your friends. Oh you shouldn't have to? You didn't have to out-level them either.

 

As for the baby 50s: plan ahead. Your initiation starts when you just hit 50, everyone goes through it. Save up bags and grind like the rest of us. The end result being decked out in Champion/Battlemaster gear makes it so much sweeter.

[Wyrdstar]

So you want to penalize people for grinding their gear? /golfclap for idiocy

 

The only idiocy is people thinking that sitting on their rear grinding gear leads to good pvp. Unless of course you count them believing that they are pvp gods do to some bs stat on that gear that they ground.

[GyroGate]

Shouldn't have to say much else, but I'll indulge those that still don't fully understand.

 

So lets take away expertise. Now for all you PvE players, we grind our PvP gear just as you do yours. You hit 50, you grind gear, you do HMs and Operations. We hit 50, use up our saved commendations and put on our blue gear and start doing Ilum dailies and WZs. I myself had 1 bag in my inventory and 1000/1000 commendations saved up. Its called planning ahead, its not an advantage, its something we're all capable of. Expertise is our goal. Its what we PvP for. I worked hard to be able to let 6 Imps pound on me and one of my guildies as we 2v6 in Alderaan for the capture point.

 

Just like in WoW. Depending on when you played, (for the more recent WoWers) you hit max level and you GRIND dungeons. You get better gear and then you start to raid. If you PvP you GRIND BGs and do Tol Barads. Its the same concept. Was there this big of an ordeal about resilience?

 

You don't hit 50 and they give you bags with all the gear you need saying, "Have fun." You work hard for progession, be it PvE or PvP. The brackets will do their job. As for wanting to play with low level friends, make an alt. It takes a couple of hours and you're 10. Bam, playing with your friends. Oh you shouldn't have to? You didn't have to out-level them either.

 

As for the baby 50s: plan ahead. Your initiation starts when you just hit 50, everyone goes through it. Save up bags and grind like the rest of us. The end result being decked out in Champion/Battlemaster gear makes it so much sweeter.

 

/signed

 

I myself had 1 bag in my inventory and 1000/1000 commendations saved up. Its called planning ahead, its not an advantage, its something we're all capable of.

 

I did exactly the same.

Edited January 17, 2012 by GyroGate

[SandTrout]

Incorrect, these threads can be found in every single MMo forum that has more than just Warzones.

PvP stats did not exist before WoW, therefore the discussions regarding PvP stats could not exist. WoW was not PvP centric, it was PvE centric. DAoC did not have PvP stats on gear, and it most definitely had PvP beyond area-style warzones. Even their battlegrounds were PvP beyond the scale of the current warzones.

 

Incorrect, the difference between a player with 1-2 pieces of Champion gear and a player with close to full Champion gear is not enough to simply out-gear your opponent.

a 20% net difference is not significant?

 

The game's general fall in popularity was the launch of World of Warcraft, not the implementation of RR, which most PvP players loved. I was there.

It had been dropping for a long time before that, though I won't doubt that WoW made a more noticable mark.

 

I have always, and will always - be a PvP player. The difference between you and I is that I do not suggarcoat my defeats with rants about how Expertise>skill. I won't lower myself to the point where I try to attack you personally, so that's all I'm going to say.

Then why do you insist on a system that leaves you an 'out'?

 

Incorrect. If they found another way to actually implement a system that protects the PvP players from the "Shadowmourne Effect", meaning that you can outgear PvP players with PvE gear, that's all I need. I always worry about winning and losing, but I play my very best to improve my own skill level and attempt to "carry" the team. I spent 3 months of 20+ duels a day against our servers best players in World of Warcaft to reach 2700+ rating in 3v3, while being what other PvP'ers would call "undergeared".

Two simple solutions exists:

 

1) Change the stats of Battlemaster gear so that they match PvE gear.

 

2) Give set, class-based stats on armor upon entering a WarZone. Functionally, no-gear PvP.

 

Why would I? I don't try any less to win because of it, instead like I just wrote, I instead attempt to carry and help my team to victory - instead of getting upset.

I focus on winning matches as well. That does not mean I appreciate being at a handicap.

 

Incorrect. I LOVE being outplayed - because I always watch every single fight I have with a keen eye, trying to learn how players react to my abilities and what combinations of skills and or counters they might use to defeat me. I attack any player regardless of gear, because gear does not matter to me. I do not vouch for a system that allows players to make excuses, I simply do no want to farm PvE content because I have to, because the equipment is so increadibly overpowered in comparison. Like I said above, if there's another way to fix that - then by all means expertise would no longer be required.

Do you have anything against Battlemaster gear matching Rataka gear, then?

 

This is pretty much just a rant, and to me it seems like you think it's you against the world. That might be so, but I do not disagree with you completely either. Like I've said here, if there is another way to make the system balanced without the use of expertise gear, then by all means implement it if it is balanced. I do not find players in expertise gear to be impossible to beat, far from it - but I can be outskilled by other players no matter what gear they have on.

I honestly don't think that we are as much in disagreement here as we first thought. I undestand that people don't want to be forced to PvE in order to PvP. I don't want to be either. PvE players should not be able to dominate in PvP because they have access to superior gear than PvP players do.

 

However, I also do not like a a game mechanic that divides the player base and requires that they focus on only one aspect of the game while placing a grind-barrier between them and the other aspect. I am not hear because I loose matches, I am here because I dislike grinding.

Edited January 17, 2012 by SandTrout

[Avindra]

So when will people start to complain about the level 34+ weapons that have expertise on them. Since people like to blame something else for them dieing so often.

[andurr]

Incorrect, it only pops up in PvE focused games and exceptionally poorly designed PvP focued games.

 

Incorrect. It exists because people want to win 99-100% of the time simply because they've been playing for longer.

 

WHich didn't exist in the game for several years, and coincided with the game's general fall in popularity. I was there.

 

You're a PvEer who thinks he can PvP. PvP is, and has always been, about playing against another player, not about playing against their gear. It is not, and should not, be about grinding your way to superiority except through advancing the skill of the player.

 

That is because you're interested in a material mark of your superiority, not playing against other players. You don't worry about winning or loosing because you know that you'll just out-equip everyone eventually anyways, so you don't need to learn, improve, or win.

 

Then go PvE.

 

You want a material advantage because you can't stand the though of being outplayed. Before you have geared up your character, you can write it off because you weren't geared, or you had a crappy team. Once you are geared, you'll have a substantial advantage to make sure that you don't loose. You're the one who wants a system that allows for people to make excuses. You're the one who wants and out for every time they loose. I want no excuses, because no excuses can be made.

 

Expertise might not be completely game breaking, but nor is it fine. It is an intrinsically divisive mechanic and turns the community into groups of gear-mongering PvPers and PvEers that despise each other.

 

It's amazing how I get insulted by gear-mongers on both sides, accusing me of being someone who plays primarily what they do not.

 

To the PvEers, I'm a PvPer that wants to take away their EPEEN gear.

 

To gear-mongering PvPers, I'm a carebear who wants to roll PvP with my epic PvE gear.

 

If you want the community to hate each other, then yes, Expertise is great. All it can and will do is divide and destroy the community.

 

your a *********** idiot, half of your shi t t t y a s s counter agruements dont make sense. seriously everyone who disagrees with this has no idea how to keep pvp alive and how to keep the balance. eventually everyone will have the same gear after putting the time and effort in. so once everyone has champion or battlemaster gear, then it comes down to skill and teamwork and all that ****. like *********** wait for the game to even be a month old. BW did fine and as soon as they fix bugs and Illum this game will be fun. but IMO...

IF YOU DONT LIKE THIS GAME THEN *********** QUIT AND STOP TRYING TO RUIN ITFOR EVERYONE WHO ENJOYS IT K THX BAI

[SandTrout]

@Andur,

 

Is the progression grind what you enjoy? If you enjoy the grind, you can make an Alt so that you can grind to your heart's content. I can't, and wouldn't, take that away from you.

 

Because that is all that expertise does, is create a second grind for the alternate set of gear.

 

I don't like the grind, so your arument regarding me ruining your game is actually me trying to un-ruin my game. Interestingly, my suggestion for making the game more fun for me by removing the necessity of an un-fun part does not prevent you from accessing the part that I do not find fun, and you do.

 

Meanwhile, you are defending an aspect of the game that forces me to do something un-fun but doesn't allow you to do anything that you could not do before.

Edited January 17, 2012 by SandTrout

[Tibbothy]

The whole argument of virtually every post in this thread that wants to see expertise removed seems to boil down to the fact that it is somehow "wrong" or "gamebreaking" that someone who has been doing PvP for longer than them and has better gear than them has an advantage when doing PvP.

 

That is the nature of virtually every aspect of an MMO.

 

Are you upset if I have 400 Biochem and you don't because I have put more time in to levelling it than you have?

 

Without expertise the only option you are left with is to make the Tiers of PvP gear equal to that of PvE gear, and that is just ridiculous. Why on earth should I be allowed to just PvP my way to Battlemaster and then suddenly be geared to down SOA on Nightmare mode without ever having set foot in EV? Conversely, why should I be able to waltz in a WZ and be better geared for PVP than someone who has been mainly PvP'ing just because my Guild can clear Heroic EV every week?

 

What you are trying to do is remove any sort of reward that is specific to the activity that people choose to put their time into. The only valid point that any of you have even come close to making is that the level of expertise may need to be looked at so that the gap between no gear and full gear is not quite as large, but that is about as far as it goes.

 

All expertise does is make it so that someone who has put time in to an activity (PvP) and has gear from doing that activity, can do said activity better than someone who hasn't done it at all but this is also true for PvE. You don't see PvP'ers on the forum crying because there are PvE'ers who get to do Nighmare Mode 16 mans and they have to struggle through Normal and Heroic mode to catch up with them.

 

Yes, PvP will be tough at first.

Yes, people who have been doing it longer will have an advantage.

No, it is not impossible for you to get that gear if you just put the time and effort in.

 

PvP gear doesn't divide the community into PvP'ers and PvP'ers. What divides them is that some people do a lot of PvP to get the PvP gear and some people don't.

 

It's a bit like Raiding really.

[andurr]

@Andur,

 

Is the progression grind what you enjoy? If you enjoy the grind, you can make an Alt so that you can grind to your heart's content. I can't, and wouldn't, take that away from you.

 

Because that is all that expertise does, is create a second grind for the alternate set of gear.

 

I don't like the grind, so your arument regarding me ruining your game is actually me trying to un-ruin my game. Interestingly, my suggestion for making the game more fun for me by removing the necessity of an un-fun part does not prevent you from accessing the part that I do not find fun, and you do.

 

Meanwhile, you are defending an aspect of the game that forces me to do something un-fun but doesn't allow you to do anything that you could not do before.

 

every MMORPG you have to grind. DAOC grind RR. WoW grind BG marks. Rift grind RR. Warhammer, grind RR and gear. If you do not like to grind to be better, then do not play an MMORPG. you put the time in and get rewarded. after max level you dont just get to be INSTA UBER. you have to work at it. you just need a different genre of games BRO.

[andurr]

The whole argument of virtually every post in this thread that wants to see expertise removed seems to boil down to the fact that it is somehow "wrong" or "gamebreaking" that someone who has been doing PvP for longer than them and has better gear than them has an advantage when doing PvP.

 

That is the nature of virtually every aspect of an MMO.

 

Are you upset if I have 400 Biochem and you don't because I have put more time in to levelling it than you have?

 

Without expertise the only option you are left with is to make the Tiers of PvP gear equal to that of PvE gear, and that is just ridiculous. Why on earth should I be allowed to just PvP my way to Battlemaster and then suddenly be geared to down SOA on Nightmare mode without ever having set foot in EV? Conversely, why should I be able to waltz in a WZ and be better geared for PVP than someone who has been mainly PvP'ing just because my Guild can clear Heroic EV every week?

 

What you are trying to do is remove any sort of reward that is specific to the activity that people choose to put their time into. The only valid point that any of you have even come close to making is that the level of expertise may need to be looked at so that the gap between no gear and full gear is not quite as large, but that is about as far as it goes.

 

All expertise does is make it so that someone who has put time in to an activity (PvP) and has gear from doing that activity, can do said activity better than someone who hasn't done it at all but this is also true for PvE. You don't see PvP'ers on the forum crying because there are PvE'ers who get to do Nighmare Mode 16 mans and they have to struggle through Normal and Heroic mode to catch up with them.

 

Yes, PvP will be tough at first.

Yes, people who have been doing it longer will have an advantage.

No, it is not impossible for you to get that gear if you just put the time and effort in.

 

PvP gear doesn't divide the community into PvP'ers and PvP'ers. What divides them is that some people do a lot of PvP to get the PvP gear and some people don't.

 

It's a bit like Raiding really.

 

exactly my point. you sir are CORRECT

[Soazak]

Expertise won't be a problem for anyone sub 50 once the brackets come. For people who are 50, PvP gear comes fast enough...although it would be nice if crafters could make an item set with a little expertise on it for new starters.

[SandTrout]

The whole argument of virtually every post in this thread that wants to see expertise removed seems to boil down to the fact that it is somehow "wrong" or "gamebreaking" that someone who has been doing PvP for longer than them and has better gear than them has an advantage when doing PvP.

Acutually, that's the gear disparity arguement, which is separate, if related, to the Expertise argument. Expertise is bad because it divides the community. Gear disparity is bad because it discourages new players from participating in PvP.

 

Without expertise the only option you are left with is to make the Tiers of PvP gear equal to that of PvE gear, and that is just ridiculous. Why on earth should I be allowed to just PvP my way to Battlemaster and then suddenly be geared to down SOA on Nightmare mode without ever having set foot in EV? Conversely, why should I be able to waltz in a WZ and be better geared for PVP than someone who has been mainly PvP'ing just because my Guild can clear Heroic EV every week?

Because you don't like EV, but you do like, SOA, and you've allready done your grind once? If you don't like EV enough to play it because it is fun, and only play it because you need the gear, then you should tell BioWare how to fix EV to make it more fun.

 

What you are trying to do is remove any sort of reward that is specific to the activity that people choose to put their time into. The only valid point that any of you have even come close to making is that the level of expertise may need to be looked at so that the gap between no gear and full gear is not quite as large, but that is about as far as it goes.

So you want to reduce to pool of candidates you have for a given FP or PvP match because they didn't level in the manner which you consider 'proper'?

 

All expertise does is make it so that someone who has put time in to an activity (PvP) and has gear from doing that activity, can do said activity better than someone who hasn't done it at all but this is also true for PvE. You don't see PvP'ers on the forum crying because there are PvE'ers who get to do Nighmare Mode 16 mans and they have to struggle through Normal and Heroic mode to catch up with them.

Actually, I think that's the main body of people who are opposed to Expertise are PvPers that want to participate with their friends in Nightmare FPs. I haven't done a poll or anything though, so I might be wrong.

 

Yes, PvP will be tough at first.

Yes, people who have been doing it longer will have an advantage.

No, it is not impossible for you to get that gear if you just put the time and effort in.

Gear disparity issue here which is not resolved by expertise, unless the new player is a PvE player, in which case if they want to grind for their PvP and find doing such to be fun, can create an alternate character regardless of weather Expertise is included.

 

PvP gear doesn't divide the community into PvP'ers and PvP'ers. What divides them is that some people do a lot of PvP to get the PvP gear and some people don't.

 

It's a bit like Raiding really.

Yes, it does divide the community into those who PvE (do a lot of FPs) and those who PvP (Do a lot of PvP). The barrier between the two communities is a gear grind, which I acknowledge will exist to some extent and create gear disparity.

[SandTrout]

every MMORPG you have to grind. DAOC grind RR. WoW grind BG marks. Rift grind RR. Warhammer, grind RR and gear. If you do not like to grind to be better, then do not play an MMORPG. you put the time in and get rewarded. after max level you dont just get to be INSTA UBER. you have to work at it. you just need a different genre of games BRO.

 

So what you are saying is that BioWare should alienate as much of its customer base as possible except for the people who like to grind.

[Taerrik]

Give us more pvp options besides the random or semi premade queues we have. Give us 8v8 guild vs guild with a ladder. It should be balanced then for a GvG pvp play. Not open world or random minigames.

 

No one will care about gear, If your guild wants to be competitive they willhelp you grind wzs for it. If you join a pvp guild and they expect to be competitive they will help you get gear