If this is true then this is what I feared after seeing what went on today. It makes it virtually pointless for me to ever set foot in Illum at all. If the population cap is set at say 80 people. There is a massive difference both in the way the zone plays, and the player perception between the way it is now (80 people regardless of faction) and the way it would be if there was a max number per faction (40 Imp, 40 Rep). If I knew as a republic player that even though we are outnumbered, if we can get 30 or so people together then at least we can make a fight out of Illum, and that the most people we were going to face at once was 40. Then at least people would have some sort of incentive to organise an Ops group and actually have some meaningful PvP on Illum. As it stands there is still no point to it as by the time you get there you are stuck in an instance with 20 Republic and 60 Imps, you are never going to get any reinforcements, and you just get repeatedly screwed. I really hope this gets changed fast so that Illum can at least have some hope of succeeding

A quick question regarding the changes that were recently made to Illum: When I read the patch notes about reducing the population cap on Illum I was actually quite pleased and as I am on the underpopulated side (Republic on my server) I thought that this may in fact give my faction a fighting chance at getting enough numbers together to actually make a decent fight out of it. Here lies my problem. I always assumed that the "population cap" on Illum was faction specific (IE: If the cap was say 100 people, that means that there can only be a maximum of 50 Imperials and 50 Republic in any one instance of Illum). The reason I assumed this is because it never occurred to me for even a second that anyone in their right mind would set up a system whereby the overpopulated faction could fill an instance with say 80 people, and then the poor 20 republic sods that are there can't get help even if they wanted to as "the instance is full". This is what seemed to be happening today. There was an Ops group that was not even full on the Republic side, and 2-3 times the number or Imps in the instance of "Illum 1" on my server. Some republic trying to join our instance were unable to as they kept getting the instance is full message. Is there anyone who actually knows FOR A FACT how the population cap works on Illum or could point me to the documentation where it is explained? If it is the case where the population cap is just an arbitrary number that does not take into account which faction a player is from in any way shape or form, then how do you ever expect the underpopulated side to compete as logic dictates that the side with the far superior numbers will just fill up any new instance of Illum far quicker than the underdogs can and will therefore always outnumber them. The population cap should work so that if you think that say 70 people is a good number for Illum performance wise, then you let 35 of one side in and 35 of the other side in, when your side has that number you are put in a new instance. At least then the underpopulated side can eventually fill up instances to the point where they are on even footing. Anyway, I MAY BE WRONG ABOUT HOW IT WORKS. I put that in capitals so people can see if before they start trolling and whining about something I may have got wrong in my post. All I am asking for is some constructive posts about how the population cap actually works at present and the issues it seems to cause. Please do not moan about valor exploits or whine about anything else Illum related as there are a million posts for you to do that in already. Thanks in advance for any responses which are helpful.

Changes to the game engine are not something I ever expected to happen already, and they have said they are aware of it and are looking into it so I'm fine with that for now. I would argue that even though it's called "Open World PvP", any sort of PvP that is limited to one area and has specific objectives is already a "glorified warzone" as you put it. It is just a bigger map with more people and no timer. The more important point is that if you are going to have it in the game then at least try and make it fun and interesting. My definition of "Open World PvP" in the truest sense would be what happens when you are levelling, you stumble across people and spontaneously fight because they are the opposite faction to you, not "lets all go to this specific area where we have been told to go to so we can do some completely random PvP". Nerf to Biochem unnecessary? Really? Do you perhaps have Biochem? I had a 400 Synthweaver and dropped it to roll Biochem, I got 400 Biochem 2 days before they changed it and I am over the moon they nerfed it. It was widely know that Biochem was so retardedly overpowered that it was virtually mandatory for anyone who was even remotely serious about PvP and to some extent raiding. It needed nerfing badly and I wholeheartedly disagree with your statement.

It seems a lot of people are very unhappy at the moment with SWTOR for one reason or another, but rather than focus on the bad, I would like to take a moment to focus on the good. Yes this game still has a lot of issues, but with the dev post going up a little while ago about the issues present in Illum today, this is what I have been given by Bioware since release that has made me happy: They gave me a 50 only WZ bracket so my 50 and my alt can PvP in a much more even and fun environment. They changed Illum from the swap-fest it was originally to something that may actually lead to some decent PvP in the future. Yes I was present for the lag filled camp fest that occurred today, but making it so you cannot be camped in base and reducing the population cap so the side with lower numbers can have a chance at getting enough people to make a fight of it are two great changes in my opinion. The fact they are patching it one day after the original changes is also a good sign. Also, they took companions out of Illum. They have already put in a bucket load of bug fixes, and the ones to EV are the ones that personally make me the happiest. New content, a new Flashpoint and what equates to basically a whole new operation. Sensible nerfs to Biochem and Cybertech, and another sensible change to stop buff/adrenal/stim stacking. Taking the randomness out of Battlemaster gear, I can handle it on the lower level stuff, but by the time you get to BM you really don't want to be getting duplicates. That's most of the major stuff I think. Between all of those changes I can PvP and have fun, Raid and have fun... generally just have fun. I can quite happily deal with the other things that bug me about the game for now as I actually think the patches have at least shown that Bioware are trying to do the right things to make the game better. Just my two cents.

You are the one that doesn't seem to really understand the mechanics of Expertise. My 50 in full Champ gear VS someone with no Expertise doesn't just do 10% more damage. He does 10% more damage TO you. Takes 10% Less damage FROM you. Heals for 10% MORE than you do. That is what the poster meant when he said it increases attack and defence. You really should understand the subject you are talking about before coming on forums and saying people don't know what they are talking about. So in regards to your point about half champ gear only being a 5% increase and thats no big deal. The difference in damage between someone in Half champ Gear fighting someone with no Expertise gear is more like 10% (and thats without factoring in the extra 5% healing they can do). Full Champ Gear VS no gear is more like 20%. Which is actually a pretty big deal. I am not for removing expertise, but they do need to look at the size of the gap between those new to 50 and those with a lot of PvP gear and bring the bonus you get from it down to a more reasonable level, be that by reducing the percentages, or making it a flat damage boost/reduction, but not both.

If that is the case, then on that point I stand corrected.

You get the bolster buff, but it doesn't actually do anything if you are 50. The bolster Mechanic takes your stats and raises them up to what they would be at 50 if you were wearing equivalent gear. Which is why the bolster mechanic actually works really well for the levels 10-49. What I was getting at was that it doesn't matter whether it be expertise that creates the gap, or if it was just a flat out stat advantage on the higher level PvP gear that was giving an advantage. The issue is and will always be managing the gap between the new level 50 player VS the PvP'er who has all his gear already. I think the main problem at the moment is that the numbers they have put in place for the benefits you get from Expertise are just too big. At the moment, In mostly Champ gear I already have 10.73% extra damage, extra healing and - damage taken. That just seems like way to much. I think coupled with the fact that you will have much better stats than a newly geared 50 if you have T2 PvP gear, a much smaller increase would have been a better idea. Something along the lines of 2% total for T1 set, 4% for T2 and 6% for T3. Now it doesn't sound like a large amount, but 6% more damage and 6% less damage taken is a very nice bonus indeed for someone who is serious about PvP and does a lot of it, not to mention the set bonuses they get and the great stats that are on the gear are also very nice. This would make the gear worthwhile to get for PvP'ers, without it being as overwhelming to deal with for people who do not have it as it is now. I also think that a PvP stat is a necessity, as if you do not have it, then you need to keep the PvP gear and PvE gear equal, and then you have to start balancing raid content with PvP gear in mind, and that just seems like the worst case scenario to me.

Another thing that seems prevalent in this thread is the fact that people seemed to get very fixated on the Expertise stat rather than the actual effect of the Expertise stat. If Expertise was taken out of the game completely, and you just had the 3 tiers of PvP gear with better stats on them. If new level 50's were getting destroyed by 50's wearing T3 PvP gear you would have exactly the same complaints, that the gear disparity was making the PvP "unfair" to you. I will say again that Expertise is not the problem, it is the size of the Gap between a fully geared 50 and a new level 50 player that is what needs to be balanced over time to make the PvP worthwhile for people who are invested in it, whilst not a complete blowout for those that are relatively new. If anything, the expertise stat makes this easier as in the future they can tune the PvP gear seperately from the PvE gear to maybe bring the gap closer together than it would otherwise have been.

What is it with all this talk of "segregating the community", you make it sound as if anyone that does any form of PvE bursts into flames every time they put on a piece of gear with a PvP stat on it. You go on to complain that wow became "carebear" and in the same breath seem to be very upset that you have to actually do PvP to get PvP gear. For a lot of people that do PvP, people complaining that they should be able to do PvP in their PvE gear would seem like a pretty good description of "carebear", or at least in that general ballpark. Your whole argument seems to be something along the lines of "Oh no, my PvE gear isn't as good for PvP as that PvP gear I could get from actually doing PvP, now I cannot possibly do PvP as it is too unfair to me." My counter would be "Do some PvP, problem solved".

Firstly, Gear disparity and Expertise are not separate arguments. Expertise is virtually the definition of gear disparity and gear disparity between people who have done an activity for an extended period of time in an MMO and people that haven't is a staple of MMO design and is present in every single aspect of the game be it PvP or otherwise. If people are upset when they hit 50 and find that they are not as well geared as every other 50 on the server then they came into this game with very unrealistic expectations of what endgame in an MMO looks like. As far as it discouraging new players from doing PvP, there is no way that anyone who has ever played an MMO in their life actually expects to ding 50 and have a perfectly level playing field with every other person on the server. If this is what you want, then you are playing the wrong genre of game. Secondly, regarding running EV over and over again without needing any gear. I have no idea how you can possibly imagine that any MMO designer could ever make an instance fun enough that people would run it over and over again for no other reason than to just do it. If this were the case, then end game PVE content would be done in two weeks and every MMO player that was even remotely interested on progression raiding would have nothing to do and just leave as they would only need to run the instance a couple of times before they were bored of it. I do not know of anyone who would repeatedly run any PVE content over and over again without some reward. Without the reward it is more akin to a single player game that you just finish and then stop playing. Thirdly, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that large swathes of people will refuse to PvP just because they find themselves with gear that is not as good as people who are doing it already. This is a falsehood. People who want to PvP will do it based mainly on whether or not the PvP is good enough to hold their interest. The gear as it currently stands is in no way "reducing the pool". there is absolutely nothing to stop anyone who wants to PvP doing so, likewise for FP's and OPS's. They go through the gear progression to get to where they want to be and viola, they are doing their chosen activity. Anyone that refuses to PvP because they are at a disadvantage against better geared players again, came to this game with unrealistic expectations and will not stick with it anyway. Fourthly, PvP'ers being the ones opposed to Expertise? I honestly have no idea why you would think that but I wholeheartedly disagree. Honestly, i don't think it has anything to do with you being a PvP'er or a PvE'er and everything to do with anyone just wanting to have the best gear without having to go through any of the gear progression that comes with playing an MMO. The next part of your post seems oddly worded and honestly I am not sure what you are getting at. Lastly, again you keep talking about "dividing the community" and PvP and PvE like they are mutually exclusive. Linking one to the other is pointless, people who want to do PvP will do PvP, they will eventually get their PvP gear and be just like everyone else. Whether or not the do PvE as well is completely irrelevant. As far as gear grind being a factor again I would point you to the fact that this is an MMO. Realistically, what did you expect? If the fact that you have to grind gear to get where you want to be puts you off, then this was never the game you were looking for. At the end of the day, you have to look at PvP as a separate entity gear wise from PVE content. Bad things happen if you try and mix the two. Again I would say that the only valid point that has been made in this thread is that the disparity between someone with full expertise gear and those with no expertise gear may be slightly too large at present. But that is a very specific issue with tuning the stats on the armour a little and is a completely different thing to trying to take out PvP specific gear entirely.

The whole argument of virtually every post in this thread that wants to see expertise removed seems to boil down to the fact that it is somehow "wrong" or "gamebreaking" that someone who has been doing PvP for longer than them and has better gear than them has an advantage when doing PvP. That is the nature of virtually every aspect of an MMO. Are you upset if I have 400 Biochem and you don't because I have put more time in to levelling it than you have? Without expertise the only option you are left with is to make the Tiers of PvP gear equal to that of PvE gear, and that is just ridiculous. Why on earth should I be allowed to just PvP my way to Battlemaster and then suddenly be geared to down SOA on Nightmare mode without ever having set foot in EV? Conversely, why should I be able to waltz in a WZ and be better geared for PVP than someone who has been mainly PvP'ing just because my Guild can clear Heroic EV every week? What you are trying to do is remove any sort of reward that is specific to the activity that people choose to put their time into. The only valid point that any of you have even come close to making is that the level of expertise may need to be looked at so that the gap between no gear and full gear is not quite as large, but that is about as far as it goes. All expertise does is make it so that someone who has put time in to an activity (PvP) and has gear from doing that activity, can do said activity better than someone who hasn't done it at all but this is also true for PvE. You don't see PvP'ers on the forum crying because there are PvE'ers who get to do Nighmare Mode 16 mans and they have to struggle through Normal and Heroic mode to catch up with them. Yes, PvP will be tough at first. Yes, people who have been doing it longer will have an advantage. No, it is not impossible for you to get that gear if you just put the time and effort in. PvP gear doesn't divide the community into PvP'ers and PvP'ers. What divides them is that some people do a lot of PvP to get the PvP gear and some people don't. It's a bit like Raiding really.

You said that putting the 50 bracket in was not an emergency, but there are currently a host of problems with the game that need looking into: Buggy Raid instances (dying for no reason, bosses resetting, quests not updating) UI Issues (No customisation, Can't move action bars, Raid Frames are buggy and just downright terrible) Crew Skills (Anything apart from Biochem and maybe Cybertech seems pretty useless after crafting your own BoP armor pieces, even after the nerf) The AH (It's just plain bad) LFG Functionality (I don't think anyone really likes spamming General all day to try and find a group) Ability Delay (Well documented in the forums) FPS issues in WZ's (For some people anyway) Illum (Need I say more) The PvP bracket issue that my original post was about And that's just off the top of my head. Now out of all those issues, the only ones that had even a remote chance of being completely fixed by the next patch were the 50 bracket, and at a stretch, the issues with Illum being a PvP free zone. The point of my original post was that endgame is pretty rough going at the moment and implementing a 50 only bracket in WZ's seems like the easiest one to fix out of all of them, and probably has the most mileage in it with regards to making the game more enjoyable for a large percentage of people (IE: Not everyone is raiding regularly yet, but I would think most people at least do a few WZ's here and there while levelling and at 50 for the PvP gear). At 50 after a certain point you are pretty much either raiding or PvP'ing and fixing all the bugs they have in endgame raiding at the moment seems like a bigger job than fixing the brackets. WZ's at their core are a lot of fun and would keep me occupied perfectly fine until the other stuff gets sorted. I would also quite happily level my Alt if I could PvP on him while levelling without feeling like I am a 12 year old girl with the flu trying to fistfight a bear every time I end up against 50's in a WZ. Adding in the 50 bracket is the only problem I can see that doesn't require something to be "fixed" as such. The mechanics for participating in WZ's are one of the few things that actually seem to work most of the time, and adding a 50 bracket doesn't seem like it would to be open to "exploiting" or have lots of bugs to work out, and more importantly it seems like the one thing they could fix in one go, with just one change. All in all, I really don't see how fixing one or two more extra bugs like you said is even remotely as important as taking the one aspect of the game which currently has the least issues and making it actually enjoyable for everyone. But like everything on the internet, that is just my opinion and everyone is entitled to their own view.

A quick look at the forums should tell anyone that there are lots of things in this game that people would like changed for one reason or another and I, like most people, have things in the game that I would like to see changed/implemented/fixed. I do however see enough promise in the game and have enough fun with it to stick with it at least for a while and give the game time to mature and see what changes are made to it before I make a final decision on whether or not to stick with it. After seeing the message about patch 1.1 being delayed I was disappointed, firstly because there were a lot of things in the patch that I was excited to see in game, but more importantly, because what I have wanted more than anything lately is the 50 only bracket for Warzones. Now I do not for one second believe that the 50 only bracket is the be all and end all to fixing all of SWTOR's issues, but it is by far the one thing that is going to help keep me going whilst you fix bugs, add content etc to make the end game experience more enjoyable. I have a Lv50 main and a Lv25 Alt, and PvP'ing on both of them is a pretty depressing experience at the moment for the same reason.. Expertise. Characters at levels 10-49 just cannot compete with a reasonably geared 50 and this just kills any sense of enjoyment I can get out of PvP. Without LV50's in the equation, I would at least feel like i could join a WZ on my LV25 and at least be competitive with anyone I will face, and on my 50, I want to fight and play with other 50's, not be facerolling LV20's and winning or losing WZ's based on which team got lucky and got the most LV50's in it. I understand why this feature wasn't in a launch as there were not enough 50's to make it work, but as you were already planning to add it today, please put it in as soon as possible as currently, anyone who doesn't have a 50 already is in for a pretty rough time PvP'ing and it is a horrible introduction to PvP for anyone new to the game. For all the people who may post saying things along the lines of "I kill 50's all the time, it's not hard blah blah" let me say this. You are deluded, and I in no way believe a word of what you are saying. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if right off the bat you are doing about 11% less damage to me and I am doing 11% more damage to you and I heal for 11% more than you do, then I have an overwhelming advantage in any fight we may have, it's just that simple. Anyway, this post was long winded, probably pointless and had a lot more moaning in it than I would have liked, but it's late, I'm tired and no patch has made me grouchy so I don't really care.