Why does every crew skill have to provide bonuses?

[ericdjobs]

A common theme on this forum is everyone clamoring for crew skills to provide some sort of bonus when you reach 400 skill; Be that overloading a shield generator, increasing crit, etc etc etc.. everyone seems to feel that crew skills are supposed to give a bonus for maxing them.

 

 

This is WoW mentality. This is something WoW did; It was called the profession normalization. It was not always like this. It appears to me that people have become to ingrained with WoW thinking that they pretty much EXPECT every trade skill to offer some sort of quantifiable bonus at 50. WoW did just fine without having normalized bonuses for years, why are all of the sudden they a requirement?

 

 

I'd just like some people's thoughts on this, because it's kind of irritating. Crew skills are to craft and have fun, not to increase your stats even more (that's what gear is for)

 

 

If one crew skills contains a nifty bonus, so be it; Why do we have to normalize everything to be exactly equal? Why can't we have fun little buffs here and there that are interesting? Nothing is interesting once normalization happens; Everything is carbon copy of another just with different wording. I don't want the crew skills in this game to turn into the stat-grind that WoW's professions have become; We enter a scenario where You HAVE to have trade skills because they provide a hard stat increase.

 

Picking up crew skills should be entirely optional and not about getting some bonus simply because you reached max level. Everyone really needs to stop complaining.

Edited January 14, 2012 by ericdjobs

[GnatB]

Don't look at me, I've been arguing every place possible that that kind of benefit to having a tradeskill (not just maxing it) inevitably destroys the very point of tradeskills in the first place.

[Kalantris]

It's plain and simple: Either all give bonuses or none of them do. Plain and simple. Plus I see no fun in crafting, it's just click, click, mission, click, click, clik craft, but that's just my oppinion. The problem is that biochem gives you an enormous boost in both PvP and PvE. Once you wipe a couple of times on a boss, because you missed the enrage timer by 4 seconds or get rolled for 12k by an operative in a warzone before you can get up you'll know what I mean. It's biochem, nothing else, that is the problem here.

 

Regards,

Kalantris

[Klerke]

It's plain and simple: Either all give bonuses or none of them do. Plain and simple. Plus I see no fun in crafting, it's just click, click, mission, click, click, clik craft, but that's just my oppinion. The problem is that biochem gives you an enormous boost in both PvP and PvE. Once you wipe a couple of times on a boss, because you missed the enrage timer by 4 seconds or get rolled for 12k by an operative in a warzone before you can get up you'll know what I mean. It's biochem, nothing else, that is the problem here.

 

Regards,

Kalantris

 

tried to write a post like yours, saying the same, but you said is better than i could

[ericdjobs]

Don't look at me, I've been arguing every place possible that that kind of benefit to having a tradeskill (not just maxing it) inevitably destroys the very point of tradeskills in the first place.

 

I agree COMPLETELY

 

It turns them into basically virtual pieces of gear that you have to grind out stats for.

 

I don't see much of a balance issue right now; If biochem didn't have the reusables, they'd simply be running Bioanalysis missions a lot of the time to get the mats to craft stims for themselves; the net effect would be the same, always have a stim active. Reusables simply just make this easier.

 

 

What I feel needs to be done is that Stims and Adrenals should both have a green version ( i know stims already do) that craft about 5-7 at a time. Make green adrenals that are just about as good as the blue ones, lower the bonus of the rakata adrenals, do the same thing; craft 5-7 adrenals at a time for same amount of mats. Take all the first-level raid drop schematics for all other professions and PUT THEM ON THE TRAINER. This will let biochemists sell their wares. This will give people free access to all the stims/adrenals they can afford. This will make people feel like their given selection in crew skill isn't a waste because at least they can craft the first tier of good crap.

[Darth-Rammstein]

because in wow just like in this game end game crafting sucks and whatever you can create cannot be competitive with vendor gear that you get through pvp/pve....giving us a stat perk for whatever crafting skill you chose would at least give you something to benefit from for going through the trouble of leveling it.

[GnatB]

because in wow just like in this game end game crafting sucks and whatever you can create cannot be competitive with vendor gear that you get through pvp/pve....giving us a stat perk for whatever crafting skill you chose would at least give you something to benefit from for going through the trouble of leveling it.

 

Well, first I'm not convinced there *needs* to be end game crafting.

And even if there is "end game" crafting, "end game" crafters shouldn't neccessarily be a subset of "end game" players who happen to craft. In fact, by the very nature of crafting, "end game" players have little/no need to be crafters. The "purpose" of crafting is basically to make money. Most games, That isn't really much of a concern for "end game" players. That being said, the fix to "end game" crafting would be simply making the stuff they can make better.

[Ryotknife]

apparently the OP didnt remember wow very well. engineering was basically required for pvp except for arenas where its gadgets were disabled.

 

rocket boots allowed one person to solo cap a flag with the entire enemy team guarding the flag.

 

the only crafting object that was just as overpowered as engineering in pvp in wow were the free action potions.....which anyone could use.

 

making a crew skill a requirement is not a good idea.

 

of course, that very same crew skill needs to be able to stand on its own once its pvp advantage over the other skills has been removed, something they got wrong with engineering.

[BlazingShadow]

nerf biochem's bonus and be done with it. The only issue here is that Biochem (and maybe cybertech's nades) give an unfair advantage that no one else can achieve either through their products or other means. It's so distinct in fact that it gives a tangible benefit that min/maxers see as a required step.

 

Nerf it or give every crafting profession a similar bonus.

[Durzaka]

You either give all crew skills a type of crew skill specific bonus or give nothing to any of them.

 

 

Crafting isnt a way to play this game. (AKA it's not SWG) so by giving one crew skill something that gives an advantage in pvp or pve, it becomes a requirement to level that crew skill if you want to min/max (AFK most raiders and pvpers)

[Algorithm]

Because we are competitive, and we want to have equal chance to win!

[SpaghettiMonster]

There has to be some sort of carrot at the end of the stick.

[ericdjobs]

nerf biochem's bonus and be done with it. The only issue here is that Biochem (and maybe cybertech's nades) give an unfair advantage that no one else can achieve either through their products or other means. It's so distinct in fact that it gives a tangible benefit that min/maxers see as a required step.

 

Nerf it or give every crafting profession a similar bonus.

 

There you guys go again with false information.

 

Biochem's bonuses are NOT BIOCHEM ONLY. They simply have reusables of items that are freely available to everyone on the server via the GTN. "That no one else can achieve either through their products or other means" ABSOLUTELY FALSE

 

You're are perfectly able to go and farm credits, buy a stim from the auction house, buy some adrenals, and buy some blue ultimate medpacks

 

Now you suddenly have all the advantages biochem has...albeit in consumable form, but you CAN STILL GET IT, don't spread false information. The only 'bonus' biochem really has is the additional stats on the Rakata stim/adrenal.

 

So, please, tell me how does that equate to not being abel to obtain the buffs that biochem has? You can also hire someone who is Biotech to make you stims, medpacks, and adrenals. These items are freely available to all players through trade.

Edited January 14, 2012 by ericdjobs

[DJIzzy]

Well, first I'm not convinced there *needs* to be end game crafting.

And even if there is "end game" crafting, "end game" crafters shouldn't neccessarily be a subset of "end game" players who happen to craft. In fact, by the very nature of crafting, "end game" players have little/no need to be crafters. The "purpose" of crafting is basically to make money. Most games, That isn't really much of a concern for "end game" players. That being said, the fix to "end game" crafting would be simply making the stuff they can make better.

 

I have strong objection to the idea that crafting is predominantly about making money. Naturally, that should be an outcome of a system by which you can make a finished product that someone else can use, but the primary pleasure I take out of crafting is the idea that, if I am good enough in sourcing my resources and acquiring recipes, I can personally make premium pieces of gear that are difficult if not impossible to get anywhere else.

 

In any game I've played where there was any serious effort put into crafting by the designers, it was extremely rewarding to see end game players using my crafted items in order to succeed at end game content. In WoW you could acquire (usually through endgame content!) recipes that would enable you to craft an item that was better than earlier content, but not quite as good as current endgame. In SWG as a Doctor, I could craft buffs and heals that both hardcore PVP and hardcore endgame PVE players could (and did) use.

 

No, in order to be fun and functional a game doesn't NEED "endgame" crafting. But when the thrust of most of any MMO *IS* endgame (including this one, don't be fooled), why even have crafting that is, at every step, surpassed by gear you can easily acquire in PVE or PVP play? It makes little sense and makes people who put effort into the crafting before realizing this feel like a very bad joke was played on them.

 

Now, I'm not a disgruntled, disenchanted fella threatening to unsub if things don't go my way. I'm actually fairly well enjoying this game, but I know that the beneficiaries of my crafting are primarily going to be low and mid-level players, plus my crew and alts. I'll have to wait until the white and magenta crystals are figured out before that can happen though, apparently

[Karkais]

Because we are competitive, and we want to have equal chance to win!

 

And because everyone always talks about PVP without mentioning it.

[TapVallian]

To me the whole idea of leveling a crafting profession to gain an edge in any type of combat seems alien. I guess I come from the wrong previous games.

 

I think the basic needs of a good crafting system needs to be making credits, but I do see the lure of being able to work toward unique, rare and valuable "schematics".

 

Things that you can craft and sell to other players or use yourself and with alts.

 

Not things that are bound to the crafter. And not things that require the crafter to be a participant in a raid. Materials can come from a raid if that is what people want, but they need to be able to be traded/sold.

 

(think SWG pet crafting for rares and like someone said swg stim/buff crafting) <--- all those things were the accomplishment of the dedicated crafter... but were available to sell to anyone. Some of the mats were gained from various kinds of combat (krayt tissue, Janta blood) but did not require the crafter to actually do the killing unless they wanted to)

[Lumocolor]

It's pretty simple to understand. People want everything the other guy has and in a video game it's so easy to have the best of everything, so why would you not take the profession that makes your character the best it can be?

 

The first week it was slicing, right now it's biochem, if they add a better bonus to something else later then everyone will switch to that till the next overpowered thing comes along.

 

First thing i did when i got into early access was to level 5 characters to level 10 and then i crafted every single weapon, earpiece, implant and armor piece to get my main to level 50 in good quality gear. My main just had 3 gathering skills and fed materials to all the level 10's to craft with. Now at 50 i'll drop a gathering skill and level biochem like everyone else.

[Goukes]

The problem with a "no bonuses for the crewskills" approach in this game is, that beyond providing some kind of bonus, in this system crewskills don't really provide anything at all.

The crafting process is dull and bland and has no challange, it isn't engaging, you can't dedicate to it to make better items than others that don't and you can't create meaningfull stuff that less dedicated crafters could't. The only "challenge" in this model is that you have to be in a raid to get the schematics and materials to craft gear you theoretically don't even need, since the same boss that drops the schematics and mats, also drops equal quality gear you might aswell just loot.

 

This way in this model, the sole purpose for crafting is to make some raid quality gear available on the "open market" for non raiders. The WoW model for crafting all over again, dull and meaningless.

So if swtor already went with the boring WoW model so far they might aswell pick up on the little passive bonus part(which are insignificant anyways).

 

The companion involvement and the reengineereing looked so promising at first, sad that in the end both become obsolete and leave the boring basic craft model WoW used. Wtb Swg crafting.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Goukes

[GnatB]

In any game I've played where there was any serious effort put into crafting by the designers, it was extremely rewarding to see end game players using my crafted items in order to succeed at end game content.

 

True, but that should only require being an end-game crafter, and not an end-game player. And other than personal satisfaction, the only tangible in-game reward was presumably the money they paid you to craft the items.

[Omniscience]

I don't care if crew skills provide some unique stat bonuses, I would be perfectly satisfied if they just gave me some unique appearance-based options. Unique color crystals for lightsabers or blasters, maybe some kind of armor coloring option, or cool looking non-combat gear. That kind of thing. Would be enough of a reason for me to level up the crew skill and enjoy it for what it is, and get a little something extra for it too.

[JamieKirby]

I am not a crafter at all, tried it, hated it, RE'ing 20 hilts and not learning anything is not worth the effort to be honest and i am really waiting for crafters to actually do their job, instead of QQ'ing about the economy sucking, how about they actually craft items for everyone like bioware intended.....problem solved.

 

This is how it should be.

 

Gatherer gathers materials, sells a full stack for a reasonable price (ie. 99 rubat crystals for a maximum of 2,000 credits)

 

Crafter buys materials and crafts items from it and sells them (ie. Might Hilt 2 can be crafted 24 times, assuming you have the Fire Node, which most dedicated crafters would)

 

Crafters sell the items they craft.

 

I have calculated that even if you sold each Might Hilt 2 hilt made for only 500 credits, you still make a huge profit.

 

The problem with most crafters right now is that they just care about making as much profit as possible with as little cost as possible, which is not good for the economy, not especially since crafters got slicing butchered.

 

The whole idea of a mmo economy is that gatherers sell to crafters, crafters buy from gatherers and crafters use those materials to craft items for the community, it might not get you millions overnight, but you will make alot of profit.

 

I tried to help the community with some ideas and they got ignored, so this will be my last attempt at it, but it was likely ignored because it required crafters to actually spend credits to make credits......yep all they think is 'blasphemy!'

[Lakshri]

I am not a crafter at all, tried it, hated it, RE'ing 20 hilts and not learning anything is not worth the effort to be honest and i am really waiting for crafters to actually do their job, instead of QQ'ing about the economy sucking, how about they actually craft items for everyone like bioware intended.....problem solved.

 

Let me tell you little secret EVEN if we crafters did our job no one will buy it. Reason? Simple

everything is better from quest rewards commendations and/or few hours of PVP

 

I dont want to be able craft something twice as powerful as commendations items but when you spent your time and credits to full skills there should be some reward unique skins colours or if you spend time and so many credits to make 1 item it should be more powerful than simple quest reward.

I really dont need any combat or stat bonus just something unique otherwise what is even point of spending time and credits on profession when you cant use it or craft something useful ?

its just waste of credits and time right now they are not even social items or unique colour crystals and so on so what is point of crafting ? none

[JamieKirby]

Let me tell you little secret EVEN if we crafters did our job no one will buy it. Reason? Simple

everything is better from quest rewards commendations and/or few hours of PVP

 

I dont want to be able craft something twice as powerful as commendations items but when you spent your time and credits to full skills there should be some reward unique skins colours or if you spend time and so many credits to make 1 item it should be more powerful than simple quest reward.

I really dont need any combat or stat bonus just something unique otherwise what is even point of spending time and credits on profession when you cant use it or craft something useful ?

its just waste of credits and time right now they are not even social items or unique colour crystals and so on so what is point of crafting ? none

 

In the end, i am thinking the crafting would be more easier if you could learn the higher quality items from REs more often, especially more often then 20 items. lol

Edited January 14, 2012 by JamieKirby

[Lakshri]

Hmmm, sounds like an excuse to me.

ok tell me then

what is better from crafting or what is purpose of crafting in general?? when there are no unique skins colors not even better gear and everything that got same stats as commendation items / quest rewards / pvp is more time consuming and XXX times more expensive so you will have no profit from that

 

if that is excuse then tell me what is crafting good for? If you tell me how I can make profit or why should we even bother with tradeskills then I will tell you that was excuse but right now I cant even see using tradeskills to equip alts

[JamieKirby]

ok tell me then

what is better from crafting or what is purpose of crafting in general?? when there are no unique skins colors not even better gear and everything that got same stats as commendation items / quest rewards / pvp is more time consuming and XXX times more expensive so you will have no profit from that

 

if that is excuse then tell me what is crafting good for? If you tell me how I can make profit or why should we even bother with tradeskills then I will tell you that was excuse but right now I cant even see using tradeskills to equip alts

 

I am trying to help the economy out to make everyone make some form of profit, but alot of crafters either outright ignore it or complain that 'crafting is useless' when they are not, granted its expensive to get there, the problem is, is that majority of the crafters are thinking 'well its useless at level 50, so the crafting in general is pointless.'

 

But it seems crafters complain about how useless it is, yet they are not using it to its full effect, i mean, a crafter that has gotten all the gear craftable to purple quality can technically make purples at the starting of a planet.

 

But in the end, its obvious that trying to explain how useful crafting really is, when you really just don't care about helping other players gear up for their leveling process.

 

I will just watch the economy die.