Brasherr Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Bioware's repeated effort to limit the ability for players to not only judge themselves, but judge other players as well has reached a point of disgust. If you want to create a game in which you expect people to co-exist, you need to be able to know how the person you are forced to play with is doing. I'm tired of grouping with a "tank" who I later find out is simply a DPS juggernaut after being forced to watch his buffs every pull. I'm tired of grouping with a DPS who I find out is specced into reduction in AoE damage. I'm tired of wiping on a boss because of enrage timer and I can't find out who the weak link is, is it me? Or is it someone else. I can't figure out rotations, or spells to use/not use because there is no target dummy, and there is no Recount. If you're going to make it so I need eight players to do an operation, then I need to be able to see my fellow players spec. If you expect to ever create a game in which endgame is actually challenging, and I am going to HAVE to be able to see at least my damage, but the damage of others would be nice too. This isn't a single player game, optimizing damage and my class is not only fun to me, it's imperative. If you're going to give almost every boss and enrage timer, logically I have to be able to see the damage I can put on in that duration. Stop preventing me from seeing what other players are doing, it's ridiculous for Bioware, or the community, to expect me to just take whoever, this isn't elitist, this is logic. Go roll Mass Effect if you don't want your play style critiqued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daekarus Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 For the love of falling hydrospanners, READ THE DEV POSTS. They are working a combat log, where you will AT LEAST be able to see your own performance. As for the rest of it... try finding a guild. I'm sure there are some other elitists you can count beans with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekadez Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I can't figure out rotations, or spells to use/not use because there is no target dummy, and there is no Recount. I'm tired of having to group with people who cannot think for themselves, apply a 1+1=2 logic, and need a crutch to do so, after which they consider themselves to be elite gamers who tell everyone how fond they are of theorycrafting and "crunching the numbers", in order to make them seem more intelligent than the lack of acuity they possess. Edited January 13, 2012 by Dekadez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breseis Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Bioware's repeated effort to limit the ability for players to not only judge themselves, but judge other players as well has reached a point of disgust. If you want to create a game in which you expect people to co-exist, you need to be able to know how the person you are forced to play with is doing. Comes with time......The game you are referencing to later in your post did not have anything of the sort for at least 2 years.... I'm tired of grouping with a "tank" who I later find out is simply a DPS juggernaut after being forced to watch his buffs every pull. I'm tired of grouping with a DPS who I find out is specced into reduction in AoE damage. I'm tired of wiping on a boss because of enrage timer and I can't find out who the weak link is, is it me? Or is it someone else. I can't figure out rotations, or spells to use/not use because there is no target dummy, and there is no Recount. Tired of grouping with a dps spec'd tank........Join a guild....problem solved. As for your combat dummies..... WoW didnt have those for at least 3+ years and we are in month 1.....Calm your cookies. If you're going to make it so I need eight players to do an operation, then I need to be able to see my fellow players spec. If you expect to ever create a game in which endgame is actually challenging, and I am going to HAVE to be able to see at least my damage, but the damage of others would be nice too. You do not trust your groups spec....again I suggest joining a guild. Again....was not available in wow until Armory was released roughly 3+ years after game was live.... Again we are in month 1.... This isn't a single player game, optimizing damage and my class is not only fun to me, it's imperative. If you're going to give almost every boss and enrage timer, logically I have to be able to see the damage I can put on in that duration. Stop preventing me from seeing what other players are doing, it's ridiculous for Bioware, or the community, to expect me to just take whoever, this isn't elitist, this is logic. Go roll Mass Effect if you don't want your play style critiqued. I am sorry but you are being elitist. Your entire post is elitist, stinks of elitist, and your comments about going to play another game *I assume* is directed toward players yet....they arent the ones who have control over what you are asking in terms of *Dmg Dummies* *Recount Meters* ect.... If you cant learn to the play the game without boss mods and other addons that held the hands of milllions of players in WoW for about 5+ years maybe you should think about switching games.... This game is not even out of month 1. You need to sit back and enjoy what there is available or come back at a later date. People like you make the community look bad. Chill your cookies down, take a deep breath and have fun and relax. Nothing will get done with this ranting.... its a proven fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpholinium Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I'm tired of wiping on a boss because of enrage timer and I can't find out who the weak link is, is it me? Or is it someone else. I can't figure out rotations, or spells to use/not use because there is no target dummy, and there is no Recount. It's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docsis Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Note to Self: "Do not group up with Brasherr. He is an angry elf." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsToof Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Bioware's repeated effort to limit the ability for players to not only judge themselves, but judge other players as well has reached a point of disgust. If you want to create a game in which you expect people to co-exist, you need to be able to know how the person you are forced to play with is doing. I'm tired of grouping with a "tank" who I later find out is simply a DPS juggernaut after being forced to watch his buffs every pull. I'm tired of grouping with a DPS who I find out is specced into reduction in AoE damage. I'm tired of wiping on a boss because of enrage timer and I can't find out who the weak link is, is it me? Or is it someone else. I can't figure out rotations, or spells to use/not use because there is no target dummy, and there is no Recount. If you're going to make it so I need eight players to do an operation, then I need to be able to see my fellow players spec. If you expect to ever create a game in which endgame is actually challenging, and I am going to HAVE to be able to see at least my damage, but the damage of others would be nice too. This isn't a single player game, optimizing damage and my class is not only fun to me, it's imperative. If you're going to give almost every boss and enrage timer, logically I have to be able to see the damage I can put on in that duration. Stop preventing me from seeing what other players are doing, it's ridiculous for Bioware, or the community, to expect me to just take whoever, this isn't elitist, this is logic. Go roll Mass Effect if you don't want your play style critiqued. Let the hate flow through you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restepor Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Comes with time......The game you are referencing to later in your post did not have anything of the sort for at least 2 years.... Tired of grouping with a dps spec'd tank........Join a guild....problem solved. As for your combat dummies..... WoW didnt have those for at least 3+ years and we are in month 1.....Calm your cookies. You do not trust your groups spec....again I suggest joining a guild. Again....was not available in wow until Armory was released roughly 3+ years after game was live.... Again we are in month 1.... I am sorry but you are being elitist. Your entire post is elitist, stinks of elitist, and your comments about going to play another game *I assume* is directed toward players yet....they arent the ones who have control over what you are asking in terms of *Dmg Dummies* *Recount Meters* ect.... If you cant learn to the play the game without boss mods and other addons that held the hands of milllions of players in WoW for about 5+ years maybe you should think about switching games.... This game is not even out of month 1. You need to sit back and enjoy what there is available or come back at a later date. People like you make the community look bad. Chill your cookies down, take a deep breath and have fun and relax. Nothing will get done with this ranting.... its a proven fact. Really this, your really just overreacting. Also this could be someone's first MMO so take it easy on them, you don't need to get all angry because they thought there a tank or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 OP kinda made me lol. Can't live w/o big shiny numbers in your face. Can't live w/o 1 button for 5 actions. Can't live w/o pointing finger at others. sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I only see one baddie here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drallbait Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Once upon a time people played MMOs without caring about Combat logs, damage meters or programs that evaluate other peoples specs and gear. They tried to kill dragons anyway. And if they failed, they said "Hey nice try guys", then they tried again, only harder. This game can be that way too. And right now, there is nothing hard enough to not do that way. Back in Once Upon a Time, MMOs were more fun. Edited January 13, 2012 by Drallbait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jederix Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Once upon a time people played MMOs without caring about Combat logs, damage meters or programs that evaluate other peoples specs and gear. They tried to kill dragons anyway. And if they failed, they tried again, only harder. This game can be that way too. And right now, there is nothing hard enough to not do that way. Back in Once Upon a Time, MMOs were more fun. WoW made sure to destroy most of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyar Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Bioware's repeated effort to limit the ability for players to not only judge themselves, but judge other players as well has reached a point of disgust. If you want to create a game in which you expect people to co-exist, you need to be able to know how the person you are forced to play with is doing. You aren't FORCED to play with any particular person. Why not find some mates you like to play with that would work for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drallbait Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) WoW made sure to destroy most of that. I was thinking of my early WoW experiences - OK and earlier MMOs I played a little but (AO, E&B and SWG for instance). But ya, over time, WoW stopped being that way. Depends a lot on who you play with too. Seems like there are a lot of Baddies like the Op out there, so he just needs to find his own ilk and they can point fingers and crunch numbers together while I am playing inside a game world killing dragons. Edited January 13, 2012 by Drallbait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Areka Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Bioware's repeated effort to limit the ability for players to not only judge themselves, but judge other players as well has reached a point of disgust. If you want to create a game in which you expect people to co-exist, you need to be able to know how the person you are forced to play with is doing. Apply all you want to real life and decide if you really would enjoy being probed constantly to make sure that you are "fit" to whatever task you want to perform involving more than one person. The "It's a game" answer is not valid as you have invalidated it by yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomag Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Baddies are people too. People who do poor dps, stand in fire and have horrible itemization, but people nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siltyn Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I can't figure out rotations, or spells to use/not use because there is no target dummy, and there is no Recount. This new generation of MMO player....wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsToof Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Baddies are people too. People who do poor dps, stand in fire and have horrible itemization, but people nonetheless. Theyte generaly under 300 lbs and are half as at risk for cardiovascular disease as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazzerswords Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 rushed game is rushed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Once upon a time people played MMOs without caring about Combat logs, damage meters or programs that evaluate other peoples specs and gear. They tried to kill dragons anyway. And if they failed, they said "Hey nice try guys", then they tried again, only harder. This game can be that way too. And right now, there is nothing hard enough to not do that way. Back in Once Upon a Time, MMOs were more fun. Unfortunately most mmog players started playing wow in 2007 and have been hand held and coddled to the point of not even knowing how to know if they are doing well without a damage parser. Team work, socialization and actually playing the game and paying attention are things many players have no understanding. I hope they don't allow public combat logs or parsing so people can experience mmogs played in a superior manner. It seems a lot of people are afraid. Once people get some experience without the handholding they will understand why it is better. They also learn that trusting others and working together is the best community builder possible and wow does not have that and has not for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomag Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Theyte generaly under 300 lbs and are half as at risk for cardiovascular disease as well Which is generally how they try to convince themselves that they aren't failures at the game. If you are better than me or have more stuff than me, you are a no lifer, fat, basement dweller etc. If you are worse than me or have less stuff than me, you are a noob, delete your game etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racsofp Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Bioware's repeated effort to limit the ability for players to not only judge themselves, but judge other players as well has reached a point of disgust. If you want to create a game in which you expect people to co-exist, you need to be able to know how the person you are forced to play with is doing. I'm tired of grouping with a "tank" who I later find out is simply a DPS juggernaut after being forced to watch his buffs every pull. I'm tired of grouping with a DPS who I find out is specced into reduction in AoE damage. I'm tired of wiping on a boss because of enrage timer and I can't find out who the weak link is, is it me? Or is it someone else. I can't figure out rotations, or spells to use/not use because there is no target dummy, and there is no Recount. If you're going to make it so I need eight players to do an operation, then I need to be able to see my fellow players spec. If you expect to ever create a game in which endgame is actually challenging, and I am going to HAVE to be able to see at least my damage, but the damage of others would be nice too. This isn't a single player game, optimizing damage and my class is not only fun to me, it's imperative. If you're going to give almost every boss and enrage timer, logically I have to be able to see the damage I can put on in that duration. Stop preventing me from seeing what other players are doing, it's ridiculous for Bioware, or the community, to expect me to just take whoever, this isn't elitist, this is logic. Go roll Mass Effect if you don't want your play style critiqued.You're one of them handicapables who can't play without a meter telling you what to do, aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nytak Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 OP kinda made me lol. Can't live w/o big shiny numbers in your face. Can't live w/o 1 button for 5 actions. Can't live w/o pointing finger at others. sigh I know.. isn't it ironic too, how all the self-proclaimed hardcore and elite players are the ones who need all these modifications and tools in order to perform? Last I heard, guilds were already clearing content just fine without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You're one of them handicapables who can't play without a meter telling you what to do, aren't you? It is always funny when someone who demands a tool that makes gameplay substantially easier also acts like they are a better player because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairless Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 BW isn't protecting baddies. Interviewer: So we talk about analytics and what you guys do on the developer side. Players like to do their own analytics and how to improve their characters. What tools int he game help you do that? Will you be able to export a combat log or anything like that? Georg Zoeller: Not at this point, but it's something very high on our priority list Interviewer: What's the pro and con of having something like that in? What's your approach to players min-maxing? Georg Zoeller: I have no problem with players min-maxing. I'm min-maxing myself. We do have pretty good... the tooltips are pretty good. The information on the items I think is pretty good. We're right now lacking a bit is in the evaluating your performance or your group's performance. Umm what I can tell you is there's no conspiracy where we're like we're hiding this so people aren't discriminating against other players. If you want to, you know, run a very competitive operations group and you wanna improve, having this data is certainly interesting. Umm and we're not against it, it's just right now not in. Will it make it in for launch? We don't know at this point but it's very high priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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