People who ninja for their companions

[guided_by_voices]

wait until we get server forums i'm sure a thread will be created for companion rollers then it will stop they won't get invited to groups anymore

[pairadox]

It's not a ninja if he can use it including the companion. Companions are part of the game so you might want to just get used to that fact. I know I won't hesitate even for a second to need on a item for my companions.

 

Would never raid with you.

 

Simple fact.

You roll need for class specific/spec specific.

If no on needs, you move to offspec.

If no one needs, you move to greed. Greed is where companions fall under. If it doesnt directly effect your raid/group performance (and no, companions do not.) then its a greed roll. Any attempt to justifiy it, is simply poor ettiquette.

 

Simply put.

 

You are part of the problem.

[thecoffeecup]

Explain correctly? Is there some rule book that dictates that because you think it so, I have to agree? The question is do I 'need' the item. If I feel I do, I roll 'need'. Why or what I do with it is none of your concern.

 

So, when you do "need" an item?

 

Whenever you feel like grabbing it? When you think it would be amusing to take something another person could use?

[Setanian]

Would never raid with you.

 

Simple fact.

You roll need for class specific/spec specific.

If no on needs, you move to offspec.

If no one needs, you move to greed. Greed is where companions fall under. If it doesnt directly effect your raid/group performance (and no, companions do not.) then its a greed roll. Any attempt to justifiy it, is simply poor ettiquette.

 

These are not facts at all. They are conjecture made up you and others. No-where does it say any of that.

 

Simply put.

 

You are part of the problem.

 

But the problem is yours, not his.

[hushia]

That's your opinion, but hardly fact or relevant.

 

No, this is not only my opinion. Putting your needs above those of others and feeling that that is just, is egocentric and egoistical.

 

That is correct. That you decide to do otherwise is your prerogative and none of my business.

 

Hence why I expect people to say beforehand they'll be rolling Need on everything when they feel like it, so I can leave which is my prerogative. If you do not communicate you will be deviating from the 'need when you need' norm, you're deceiving me and I will feel cheated on if you roll need on an item I could have used more than you.

 

More irrelevance to the issue.

No, that's your opinion. I'm just telling you that when you're being egoistical in a group, that might have impact on your future chances to group with others.

 

 

 

Like I said previously, how you play or what you do with loot is your choice and none of my business.

 

Utter nonsense. When in a group where you have to share loot, it is everyone's business how the loot will be distributed. So being upfront honest about your loot goals, is the way to go.

[Setanian]

So, when you do "need" an item?

 

Whenever you feel like grabbing it? When you think it would be amusing to take something another person could use?

 

I can obviously use it too.

[pairadox]

These are not facts at all. They are conjecture made up you and others. No-where does it say any of that.

 

 

 

But the problem is yours, not his.

 

Its behavior issue. You can argue for your poor behavior all day long. You can play devils advocate until your green in the face, and it really wont change anything. Do it once, in a guild, that works for progression and the outcome will be as follows:

 

1) You will be removed from group.

2) You will be removed from guild.

3) Any guild worth raiding with, will not touch you.

 

/shrug

 

Same with groups.

What you propose is poor behavior. Defend it any way you like, and it still boils down to the same thing.

[Setanian]

No, this is not only my opinion. Putting your needs above those of others and feeling that that is just, is egocentric and egoistical.

 

Wait I roll need and the others roll need. They have an equal chance of winning. What more do you want? A lopsided chance of winning?

 

 

 

Hence why I expect people to say beforehand they'll be rolling Need on everything when they feel like it, so I can leave which is my prerogative. If you do not communicate you will be deviating from the 'need when you need' norm, you're deceiving me and I will feel cheated on if you roll need on an item I could have used more than you.

 

That will never happen we can both use the item how we wish. It is none of your business what I do with the items I win. Where did you get the idea otherwise?

 

No, that's your opinion. I'm just telling you that when you're being egoistical in a group, that might have impact on your future chances to group with others.

 

Thank you I appreciate the sentiment.

 

Utter nonsense. When in a group where you have to share loot, it is everyone's business how the loot will be distributed. So being upfront honest about your loot goals, is the way to go.

 

Look up the word 'share'. That's the word you used. Therefore I'll go with that. Are you advocating I give up my share because of some perception you might have in relation to what is and what is not your business?

[Setanian]

Its behavior issue. You can argue for your poor behavior all day long. You can play devils advocate until your green in the face, and it really wont change anything. Do it once, in a guild, that works for progression and the outcome will be as follows:

 

1) You will be removed from group.

2) You will be removed from guild.

3) Any guild worth raiding with, will not touch you.

 

/shrug

 

Same with groups.

What you propose is poor behavior. Defend it any way you like, and it still boils down to the same thing.

 

Guilds are a different story altogether and irrelevant in this issue.

 

As for PuG groups. I Roll 'need' on anything I need. None of your business at all.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Setanian

[thecoffeecup]

I can obviously use it too.

 

But you just said it's none of my business when you need it.

 

The problem is, you could need it just to sell it, or because you think it's fun to annoy others.

 

And that is my problem with it. I have seen other people take gear that would be a big upgrade for me simply because everybody else needs on everything. In your words, they are entitled to do this, and it's none of my business.

 

I disagree, simple as that. I wouldn't knowingly join a group with anyone who shares your opinion on this. No offense, but that's how I feel about it.

[pairadox]

Guilds are a different story altogether and irrelevant in this issue.

 

As for PuG groups. I Roll 'need' on anything I need. None of your business at all.

 

If you're in a pug with me. Yes it is. And if you do it. You're gone, or I am. Have fun finding a new tank.

 

/shrug

[SnoggyMack]

What are all of you folks going to do when the first time your guild clears a nightmare level operation, one of your guildmates spends more DKP on an item and then uses it to equip their companion?

[hushia]

Wait I roll need and the others roll need. They have an equal chance of winning. What more do you want? A lopsided chance of winning?

 

 

 

 

 

That will never happen we can both use the item how we wish. It is none of your business what I do with the items I win. Where did you get the idea otherwise?

 

 

 

Thank you I appreciate the sentiment.

 

 

 

Look up the word 'share'. That's the word you used. Therefore I'll go with that. Are you advocating I give up my share because of some perception you might have in relation to what is and what is not your business?

 

I'm sorry, but you're totally missing the points I made. It might be a language issue on your part, but I can see it is no use trying to further reason with you.

 

For good order: my point is that I find it poor team play and egoistic behavior to put the need of your companion over the need of someone's player character, because you would also not put your companion's need over your own player's character's need.

 

/signed off

[pairadox]

What are all of you folks going to do when the first time your guild clears a nightmare level operation, one of your guildmates spends more DKP on an item and then uses it to equip their companion?

 

Quietly seethe.

 

DKP is DKP. You put the time in to earn it. You get to spend it however you want.

Edited January 14, 2012 by pairadox

[BlueRahja]

Pretty sure this nasty little creature is trolling us all. Probably best to pay it no mind.

[Setanian]

But you just said it's none of my business when you need it.

 

The problem is, you could need it just to sell it, or because you think it's fun to annoy others.

 

I don't do things to annoy others, but I do sell things. But that again is none of your business. If I help you kill something I have as much right to the loot as you. Where you got to thinking otherwise is a belief made up on other MMOs.

 

And that is my problem with it. I have seen other people take gear that would be a big upgrade for me simply because everybody else needs on everything. In your words, they are entitled to do this, and it's none of my business.

 

Correct.

 

Are you saying those people who helped you are not entitled to it?

 

I disagree, simple as that. I wouldn't knowingly join a group with anyone who shares your opinion on this. No offense, but that's how I feel about it.

 

Conversely I would not want to join a group in which people felt they had the right to dictate to me how I roll for loot.

[Tsillah]

No, this is not only my opinion. Putting your needs above those of others and feeling that that is just, is egocentric and egoistical.

 

People are selfish. There is no law against that either. It's not nice, I agree, but it isn't forbidden.

 

At some level everybody's looking out for number one. Most people just deny it or don't want to admit to it.

 

The simple reality is that from a certain point of view, everybody who participates in a raid or flashpoint is equally entitled to whatever loot drops.

 

The idea that you only roll need for what you need personally, is a common practice because it makes sure that people get their gear together more quickly. It's a practical and elegant solution....but it's technically not fair. When 4 people participate in a flashpoint everybody has equal rights to loot.

 

Going by class need is not fair. So actually you are being morally wrong.

 

What is really going on here is that there is a sort of common practice that most people have agreed on. So then it's best to play with people who agree to this practice. But for a PUG it's actually unfair to roll by need. Everybody should roll greed, because you probably never are going to play with that group again and so it's equal chance for all.

 

So, it really is a matter of deciding which moral, not whether it's moral or not.

 

If you want to ensure that people only choose need for their class, then it needs to be agreed at the start. If someone cheats, don't play with them ever again. It's all you can do.

 

But in the end it's not against the rules of MMOs in general because the original stance is that everybody who plays can roll for loot because they participated just like everybody else.

[ArtMonster]

every day......

 

 

 

somebody gets bum-hurt that they lost a loot roll.

 

 

 

then they post a QQ thread about how all other players are greedy a-holes.

 

 

...*yawn

 

 

 

same-o same-o

 

.

[Setanian]

Quietly seethe.

 

DKP is DKP. You put the time in to earn it. You get to spend it however you want.

 

Can the same not be said for a PuG? If not, why not? You put the time in, you earned it right?

[pairadox]

Can the same not be said for a PuG? If not, why not? You put the time in, you earned it right?

 

Nope.

 

I fully understand your point of view. I disagree with it.

Its that simple.

[hushia]

People are selfish. There is no law against that either. It's not nice, I agree, but it isn't forbidden.

 

At some level everybody's looking out for number one. Most people just deny it or don't want to admit to it.

 

The simple reality is that from a certain point of view, everybody who participates in a raid or flashpoint is equally entitled to whatever loot drops.

 

The idea that you only roll need for what you need personally, is a common practice because it makes sure that people get their gear together more quickly. It's a practical and elegant solution....but it's technically not fair. When 4 people participate in a flashpoint everybody has equal rights to loot.

 

Going by class need is not fair. So actually you are being morally wrong.

 

What is really going on here is that there is a sort of common practice that most people have agreed on. So then it's best to play with people who agree to this practice. But for a PUG it's actually unfair to roll by need. Everybody should roll greed, because you probably never are going to play with that group again and so it's equal chance for all.

 

So, it really is a matter of deciding which moral, not whether it's moral or not.

 

If you want to ensure that people only choose need for their class, then it needs to be agreed at the start. If someone cheats, don't play with them ever again. It's all you can do.

 

But in the end it's not against the rules of MMOs in general because the original stance is that everybody who plays can roll for loot because they participated just like everybody else.

 

I take exception to your 'morally wrong' statement

Talking ethics or morality, you should never take an item that is almost worthless to you when someone else can actually use it.

 

What you are stating here would be true if all drops were equally important to all participants in the group.

 

Unfair is for someone to have to give up a 100% upgrade to another person who will then sell it for 10 credits to a vendor.

Edited January 14, 2012 by hushia

[Onikageboshi]

In my opinion, and the general opinion of people I run with, Need is only for direct upgrades your character can use. Not your companions, or an alt you're leveling. Your current character.

 

Greed is for companions, or you ask "Hey, do you guys mind if roll need for my comp?"

 

I do not force this opinion on other players, however, if you intend to roll need for your companion over other players who would use it for their character, I will not group with you, and I explain this to anyone before doing flashpoints - if you need for your companion, and win it, you will be removed from the group and go on my ignore list.

[ArtMonster]

....

Unfair is for someone to have to give up a 100% upgrade to another person who will then sell it for 10 credits to a vendor.

 

not unfair.... just the luck of the draw.

 

 

it's only "percieved" as unfair by the loser of the roll.

 

 

if you had won this hypothetical situation...I bet there wouldn't be this BS morality gripe...lol.

 

 

.

Edited January 14, 2012 by ArtMonster

[thecoffeecup]

I don't do things to annoy others, but I do sell things.

 

What is the purpose of the greed button then?

 

Pretty sure this nasty little creature is trolling us all. Probably best to pay it no mind.

 

It's possible we are being trolled. Then again, I love arguing, so I don't feel violated in any way

 

 

What are all of you folks going to do when the first time your guild clears a nightmare level operation, one of your guildmates spends more DKP on an item and then uses it to equip their companion?

 

Oh yeah, DKP. I was in a guild where we gave up on that system. We had a DKP bidding system, and the first thing that happened was that our guild drama queen (one of many ) spent ALL his DKP on an item he didn't even want because he didn't feel like walking away from a raid emptyhanded. Left him and the other guy upset, and everybody had to listen to them.

 

The best loot system we had in a guild I was in was simple need/greed where you got higher priority for loot you needed if you hadn't already won anything in that raid. It's not without its flaws, but it worked pretty well for us.

Edited January 14, 2012 by thecoffeecup

[Setanian]

I take execption to your 'morally wrong' statement

Talking ethics or morality, you should never take an item that is almost worthless to you when someone else can actually use it.

 

What you are stating here would be true if all drops were equally important to all participants in the group.

 

Unfair is for someone to have to give up a 100% upgrade to another person who will then sell it for 10 credits to a vendor.

 

This actually very relevant to my stance.

 

I played Everquest for 9 years and WoW for 5. I never ever had a problem with loot on eq1. How-ever on WoW, the norm seemed to be to roll need and then sell.

 

Then I started SW:ToR. Someone asked me for help on a 2+ so I helped. They rolled need and 3 minutes later they were selling it on /1

 

So, the answer to this is to ignore everyone and their perceptions and play the game my way with *my* rules. If someone doesn't like my rules, they don't have to group with me.

 

And if you lay down your rules at the start of a group, I then have the choice to help you or not.