Bioware: Allow Advanced Class Respec!

[Pyrolight]

Go look under classes on the website it's not difficult to find if you read.

 

 

LOL

 

Where in that page does it link to an Advanced Class? Why are only the base class links there. Why after clicking the base class do specializations (AC) now become available. Why would any rational person think for one second that a "class" based on another class could be an archetype when the definition says it has the be the base/prototype.

 

Read the page again slowly. They are clearly referring to the 8 base classes that the stories are based around.

 

There is absolutely no connection between archteypes and AC on that page either in what bioware has written or by the words definition.

 

I can't say it any other way, you are simply wrong.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Pyrolight

[BrigOrion]

Its many. I didn't say most. I said many. Key word: indefinite.

 

A dozen skills is not many. At least, it's not to those of us with at least basic math skills.

[aznthecapn]

What I am riled up and frustrated about is people can't tell the difference between a class and an archetype! It's simple commons sense in the MMO world!

 

Archetype is rarely used in online gaming. Its a literary term. The word archetype is referring to the basis of the class you're playing: assassin, guardian, gunslinger. It is not a reference to how the advanced classes correspond to their class counterpart. The Jedi Guardian of old is an archetype for the class I chose: Jedi Guardian. Jedi Knight is not an archetype of the Jedi Guardian.

[SlickDevlan]

Hurling ad hominems around like calling me "narrow minded" won't progress this discussion, in fact it'll just make me want to stop discussing this with you while other people are discussing it in a mature manner.

 

The reason I "limit" my acceptance of why it's a bad idea to "something that's detrimental to the game" is because that's a simple logical standpoint, and it's how discussions work. Why would you argue against a change if it would theoretically only have a positive net effect on the game without taking anything away from it?

 

If you're against the proposition, the onus is upon you to demonstrate why it's bad.

 

 

 

LS/DS points aren't really relevant to this because you barely break 1,000 in the sort of level range I have in mind. And even if you did, so what? You can change your alignment at any time by questing. The same goes for affection.

 

 

 

I am pretty sure nobody is asking for faction change, only an AC change. And changing your AC does not change your class quest.

 

 

 

Are you guys just getting upset now, or what? Because people are making some pretty demeaning assumptions about me now. No, this is not about instant gratification, it's about the difference between difficulty and tedium.

 

Your posts say otherwise...

[Gunryu]

It's an advanced CLASS, not spec. There is no need for respecs. Should we be able to respec to another class too? no? Then voila!

 

 

It's an Archetype! They just gave it a different name in game, go read under holonet in classes..........wait I will save you the time and trouble of reading.

 

In the decades since the Great War began, a careful study of professional classifications, or classes, has identified several archetypes of great interest. Individuals belonging to these classes gravitate towards key roles in history-making events. Because of the likelihood that representatives of these archetypes will shape the future of the galaxy, a closer analysis of each class is warranted and is posted here for further study and discussion.

[/Quote]

[PJEBarlow]

Your posts say otherwise...

 

Well I just told you my position, what more can be said?

 

I'd suggest you take a break from the forum, maybe put the kettle on and relax, because it sounds like you're beginning to make this personal.

Edited January 14, 2012 by PJEBarlow

[Jswizzle]

I guess no one played EQ2. I'm not going to read the 50+ pages of replies so here goes:

 

In EQ2, when you did a "betrayal quest(changing factions)" you could change your class. Sometimes, for paladins, you were forced to become the "evil" counterpart(shadowknight).

 

But for "neutral" classes(like rogue, bard, or druid), you were given the option to change your "advanced class" or not. Very easy and simple change, besides the entirely new spam of abilities to learn.

 

I don't see what the big deal is about being able to change your advanced class. The story will be the same, the companions will be the same. You will have to relearn a lot of new abilities and find an entire set of new gear, but this is all manageable.

 

Yep nobody plays Everquest 2.

 

I like how you forget to add the part about.

 

After being exiled, you will undertake the tedious process of earning faction for the city of your choice. It's not simple at all.

[BrigOrion]

Archetype is rarely used in online gaming. Its a literary term. The word archetype is referring to the basis of the class you're playing: assassin, guardian, gunslinger. It is not a reference to how the advanced classes correspond to their class counterpart. The Jedi Guardian of old is an archetype for the class I chose: Jedi Guardian. Jedi Knight is not an archetype of the Jedi Guardian.

 

In TOR, Jedi Knight is IN FACT an archetype of both Jedi Guardian and Jedi Sentinel. Your lack of any previous experience with MMOs is patently obvious.

[Blizark]

They need to let you respec in some fashion. Right now its just a flawed system. You blindly pick your class after already having invested several hours into your character. If they insist on your actual class being chosen at level 10 instead of upon creation, then they should let you play around with both adv classes for a bit before making you choose.

[Pyrolight]

It's an Archetype! They just gave it a different name in game, go read under holonet in classes..........wait I will save you the time and trouble of reading.

 

LOL it's a specialization according to the holonet. Click on one of the archetypes aka bases classes and be amazed.

 

 

It's an advanced CLASS, not spec. There is no need for respecs. Should we be able to respec to another class too? no? Then voila!

 

According to the holonet it is as I say above a specialization.

 

http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes/trooper

Edited January 14, 2012 by Pyrolight

[dackki]

My answer. http://nooooooooooooooo.com/

[Gunryu]

LOL it's a specialization according to the holonet. Click on one of the archetypes aka bases classes and be amazed.

 

Yep a specialization, guess what that isn't..............A CLASS!

[Keihryon]

 

 

 

Are you guys just getting upset now, or what? Because people are making some pretty demeaning assumptions about me now. No, this is not about instant gratification, it's about the difference between difficulty and tedium.

 

Nope, not upset at all. Just finally understood your mindset, and that mindset tells me that there is no reason to continue on this thread.

 

 

No on AC respecs. They aren't talents, they are your class.

[bassfu]

Sure, once WoW lets me respec my hunter into a death knight.

[Gunryu]

Nope, not upset at all. Just finally understood your mindset, and that mindset tells me that there is no reason to continue on this thread.

 

 

No on AC respecs. They aren't talents, they are your class.

 

 

Seriously, you need more MMO experience or something because it isn't your class!

[SlickDevlan]

Well I just told you my position, what more can be said?

 

I'd suggest you take a break from the forum, maybe put the kettle on and relax, because it sounds like you're beginning to make this personal.

 

How is referring to what you said making it personal? You said that you shouldn't have to reroll the same class because its tedious, but rerolling to a new class is A-OK...therefore you need AC switching. You are the one saying that anything you dislike is tedious, including playing the same class for the same 13 levels...therefore you need AC switching.

 

That sounds a lot to me like instant gratification.

[Lethality]

I'm sorry, but my back is hardly up against a wall here. If anything I'm the one asking people to put forward a straight-forward reason why it would adversely affect the game, and nobody is able to do so. That looks to me like a position of advantage.

 

You're the one that has to carry the burden - the feature you want is not in game, nor has it been announced. Just for clarity.

 

Except this isn't "other MMO", this is SW:TOR, and all you have to do is explain how this feature would be detrimental to the game instead of appealing to tradition by saying "other MMOs do it this way, it shouldn't change because other MMOs do it this way" in a circular manner.

 

The detrimental effects of switching classes in a class-based RPG should be obvious.

 

I've been hear discussing this same thing for over 3 years, and I've heard it all. There is no solid footing whatsoever under the switching of classes. You simply cannot take a core construct and shake it up without changing the dynamics of the game.

 

You heard about the NGE in Star Wars Galaxies, right? If that happens here, I expect a similar exodus.

[lunabaguna]

"any sort of Advanced Class changing is not under discussion for launch, or even right after launch." -Reid

 

(meaning this discussion shouldnt be happening) but since it is:

 

Imo they should never allow this, advanced class should just be renamed class and your original class should be named "archetype" or something. Your AC is not just a mild diff from the other AC, they are completely and fully fleshed out classes. There is nothing whatsoever that has any commonality between an assassin and sage or a jugg and murader. There is no game in the history of mmos that allows you to be a tank class one day and suddenly a heal class the next (unless maybe you count paladins).

 

Edit to point out: I really dont want someone who leveled up as a sage suddenly deciding to become a tank and try to main tank for my raid. Levels 1-50 help you to learn your class, skills, roles, etc. A sage who suddenly has an entirely new energy pool/skill cost/skill trees/skills/role will not be able to learn it all as effectively as someone who was introduced to it a level at a time.

Edited January 14, 2012 by lunabaguna

[Pyrolight]

We are on the same page but different parts. Edited January 14, 2012 by Pyrolight

[stephenjohnp]

No, no, no, no no, no. Awful idea.

[BobTheTeepo]

Yep a specialization, guess what that isn't..............A CLASS!

 

That's semantics, they work the same as a class. When I use my TV to game on in place of my monitor, it may not be called monitor, but it serves the same practical purpose.

[Pyrolight]

Sure, once WoW lets me respec my hunter into a death knight.

 

That would be comparable to changing from a Knight to a Consular. We are not talking about that.

[PJEBarlow]

Nope, not upset at all. Just finally understood your mindset, and that mindset tells me that there is no reason to continue on this thread.

 

No, for some reason you've decided to make this personal. You've simply chosen to dismiss my opinion as being a request for instant gratification and pull your ejector seat.

 

I've gone to the effort of laying out my arguments in a clear and concise manner, including explaining why this is about difficulty vs. tedium and not simply a request for instant gratification. You do more harm to your argument than to mine by simply becoming hostile and acting like you can hand-wave my argument away.

 

How is referring to what you said making it personal? You said that you shouldn't have to reroll the same class because its tedious, but rerolling to a new class is A-OK...therefore you need AC switching. You are the one saying that anything you dislike is tedious, including playing the same class for the same 13 levels...therefore you need AC switching.

 

That sounds a lot to me like instant gratification.

 

You are also simply attempting to hand-wave away the pages of arguments I have made, especially the ones directly addressing difficulty vs. tedium, by simply making the accusation that I'm calling "anything I dislike" tedious and claiming all I'm interested in is instant gratification.

 

That sounds a lot to me like you're not interested in discussing this as an adult, because so far you've not even tried explaining why it would be detrimental to the game. Illustrating what would be removed by grinding the same content again is all that's asked.

 

 

You're the one that has to carry the burden - the feature you want is not in game, nor has it been announced. Just for clarity.

 

Those of us supporting this proposal have fulfilled that burden. We have explained what our issue with the current system is, we've proposed a method of improving it, and we've explained how that method wouldn't take anything away from the game.

 

People who are against the motion are only rightly expected to explain why this is a bad idea. So far I've only seen arguments like "you just want instant gratification" and "because it's not done that way in other MMOs".

 

The detrimental effects of switching classes in a class-based RPG should be obvious.

 

I've been hear discussing this same thing for over 3 years, and I've heard it all. There is no solid footing whatsoever under the switching of classes. You simply cannot take a core construct and shake it up without changing the dynamics of the game.

 

You heard about the NGE in Star Wars Galaxies, right? If that happens here, I expect a similar exodus.

 

We're not asking for the ability to change classes, only the ability to change our advanced class because you currently get it at level 10 after investing a significant amount of time getting there.

 

This game is not SWG, nor are we suggesting the NGE*, let's stick to talking about SW:TOR.

 

*The NGE was actually opposed by the vast majority of the community, but LA/SOE were insistent. Smedley even wrote an apology later, saying SOE learned a lesson about not listening to the community, so let's not blame it on the users.

Edited January 14, 2012 by PJEBarlow

[Keihryon]

Seriously, you need more MMO experience or something because it isn't your class!

 

I already proved you wrong with another game that uses this style of leveling.

 

so...yeah, it is.

[ibrac]

What is so important about doing levels 1-13 again, like a spacebar-mashing zombie and knowing every single quest and encounter so it would be no challenge, that I must spend a couple of hours doing it again?

 

If your only answer is something along the lines of "because I say so" or "because that's how other games do it", don't bother replying.

 

As others have noted: Because you actually only play the first 10 levels to choose your Advanced Class. What if you had to choose it at level 1 like you do in other MMO's and instead of sharing a base set of skills with another class, it was totally different? WOW has 10 classes, TOR has 8 Advanced Classes, you just happen to choose the class at level 10 instead of level 1. In no case does this justify being able to change your class. You can change the tree's in your class just like all the other MMO's, but you can't change your class to another class just because both share some common skills.

 

I for one don't think they need to permit people to change their class, I'd like to see dual spec's within the class so one character could have more than one role from the same class, but it should be within the tree's and skills they have earned playing their class, not another class.