Notes on BioChem and Cybertech in Game Update 1.1

[Blakefay]

I don't see why they just don't allow damage buffs to effect the grenades.

 

Every crew skill at lvl 50 except biochem is very useless even with the biochem nerf.

 

We shouldn't have to farm raids for months before our crew skills are as useful as biochem at day 1 of lvl 50.

[kudesnik]

What concerns me is gear progression. End-game gear is rediculously more powerful then anything under lvl50. So unless you're in top gear you die in PvP in a few GCDs, even if you're a tank. And this is only the beginning, 'cause devs will be adding new, more powerful gear. What happend to Bioware's statement about slow-paced, tactical PvP, where skills really matters? <_<

 

Devs, why are you so afraid of nerfing things that are obviously out of line? It has to be done and what you did is not enough. Also I don't get why you are handing out end-game gear for spending little to no effort.. PvP gear, stuff from daily remchant - it's all easy to get and better then anything we can craft.

I don't get why scematics for high-end crafted gear are rear drops from flashpoints and operations while best adrenals in the game are available right away when you reach lvl50. Can't you make it harder to get? It'll surely be worth the effort.

Binding crafted items to player and crew skills does not solve the problem, it forces even more people to switch to those skills as it's the only way to get those items.

Edited January 14, 2012 by kudesnik

[Tyrandaa]

Reusable adrenals is the only reason I need to be a Biochem. That'll save me a ton of time farming credits to pay for raid consumables. The fact that they're 25% better than purchasable adrenals makes the deal even sweeter. Edited January 14, 2012 by Tyrandaa

[KaL_InvictuS]

This would all be fixed if they just dropped the "Biochem 400"requirement and made the Biochem reusable medpacks/adrenals purchaseable by everyone.

 

Biochem users keep their crafted stuff, and other classes can buy them from the GTN for a sum of cash and experience the same priviledges. Win-win.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Mephane]

At the very least, keep the individual 5 minute cooldown, but give them a 90 sec shared cooldown or something. There's almost zero reason to make more than one as it stands.

 

Even so, I really don't see how these needed a damage nerf. Were people actually switching to Cybertech? I only *ever* saw people on forums/in-game talking about changing to Biochem.

 

This. I have two grenades so far (Snare and Root) and use them primarily for those effects, not for the damage. So IF you have to nerf them, only reduce the damage, if you nerf the already short CC effects further they will become useless.

[Tyrandaa]

This would all be fixed if they just dropped the "Biochem 400"requirement and made the Biochem reusable medpacks/adrenals purchaseable by everyone.

 

Biochem users keep their crafted stuff, and other classes can buy them from the GTN for a sum of cash and experience the same priviledges. Win-win.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Then they'll need to make the Rakata Relics from Artificing BoE as well otherwise Artificing will become the de facto trade skill. As well as the Rakata crafted pieces from Synthweaving and Armormech as these pieces of crafted Rakata can be obtained well before obtaining any other piece of Rakata gear.

 

Or am I mistaken that Artificing is the only way to obtain a Rakata-level relic?

[Garrix]

Nurf CC as well. Too many cc spells and they need to have shorter durations on targets that we just CC'd.

[Scan]

Dropping my other 400 skills to attain Biochem was a waste of time, thank you BW.

 

Just one more reason I wont be resubbing.

[Ghaleon]

Dropping my other 400 skills to attain Biochem was a waste of time, thank you BW.

 

Just one more reason I wont be resubbing.

 

So it's Bioware's fault that you jumped on the bandwagon of an admittedly overpowered profession? They fix it and put it in line with the other professions and you are going to quit over it? You made the decision to drop your professions and you got burned for trying to cheat the system.

 

L O L

 

Good riddance you big baby.

[Tyrandaa]

Dropping my other 400 skills to attain Biochem was a waste of time, thank you BW.

 

Just one more reason I wont be resubbing.

 

 

Unless you switched to Biochem for the OP med packs, it's still by far the best Crew Skill.

[BrettHunter]

What bugs me isn't so much the particulars of this or any nerf; it's the fact that this is the 3rd major nerf/reduction in the first billing cycle. It's obvious that they are focused on ho-hum MMO things like endgame balance and PvP over everything else.

 

I'm not sure if there's a disconnect between marketing and the devs, but I was sold on a story based game from Bioware. This was supposed to be KOTOR: Origins and the design objectives were so ambitious that it required a persistent world and numerous MMO conventions to support them. The sort of things I want to see on the Dev Tracker are:

 

"We just hired Patrick Stewart. We haven't figured out why yet, but awesome right?"

 

"Chat bubbles are in with the next patch. Start thinking of your best open world sight gags."

 

"We've just added the 9 seconds of dialogue required to make Kaliyo a same sex romance option for female cyper nine."

 

"The Jedi writers just had the best idea for the next story act. I don't want to spoil anything, but can anyone say wire-fu?"

 

Instead we get banal posts talking about magic spreadsheets and PvP resolution time discrepancies.

 

I'll go along with those sentiments.

[skinthinner]

In other words, Bioware are letting a small number of hardcore dictate the game's design.

 

kthxbai.

 

I actually agree with this. Something that destroys the economy or can be exploited (cough slicing), I understand, but hey, the stuff is being used by hard core raiders a bit too much... ***.

 

How about the fact that it negligibly makes the game easier, and really isn't the end all or be all. Fix the real bugs and balance and leave crafting till a later patch.

[knightblaster]

I actually agree with this. Something that destroys the economy or can be exploited (cough slicing), I understand, but hey, the stuff is being used by hard core raiders a bit too much... ***.

 

How about the fact that it negligibly makes the game easier, and really isn't the end all or be all. Fix the real bugs and balance and leave crafting till a later patch.

 

The thing is that these are very easy coding fixes (low hanging fruit) and are important for game balance. It's pretty normal that easy fixes happen quicker than more complex ones.

 

The problem is that many people play MMOs with a "meta" attitude to "find the best skill", not realizing that often this means that what they "found" was "best" because it was *not* working as intended -- the developers intended to make things balanced, and not have an "absolute best choice" -- so that generally results in a quick nerf.

[wtfnonamefree]

So, with 1.1 there will be no point in having any crew skill, because they are all equally worthless by then?

 

Well, at least noone can complain it's imbalanced anymore...

 

Edit: Seriously disappointed they went that road instead of giving every crew skill something useful (something requiring more effort ofc).

 

See this thread for an example:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=175242

Edited January 14, 2012 by wtfnonamefree

[Athlon-pv]

Thanx for the warning.

 

Will you let us know what specific methods and what items will be targeted and in what manner ?

[RivAngE]

We plan to give all crafting and gathering professions additional and ongoing attention, yes.

 

It's important to remember that we launched not a month ago - we're in for the long haul. Crafting is an important part of the game and we have plans for it

 

Let me give my 2 cents here. Right now we got 4 useless professions, Armormech, Armstech, Artifice and Synthweaving. We don't need what those skills craft couse it costs a lot to craft something that's worse than what you can get from PVE and PVP. They also don't have any useful BoP either. Biochem and Cybertech are examples of good crew skills, with useful BoP crafts and items that can be tradable for a profit. You should buff the rest professions to get them to the same level as Bio and Cyber, probably by allowing the players with those professions to add more enchancement slots in some parts of their gear or whatever unique!

Edited January 14, 2012 by RivAngE

[nix_crash]

Not everyone requires the medpacks every 90 sec for four straight hours - basically this is a pvp nerf that affects pve.

 

if you character has a skill that heal him for 9k+ every 90 second you wouldnt base your playstile around that?

think how many boss mechanic you can just ignore by timing the big heal with the damage, everytime.

and for tanks obviously this would be a requirement, wathever else.

[Oaahbm]

So, the goal is to make all crew skills worthless?

[Leporello]

The nerf isn't that bad. BioChem is still a must-have skill for tanks, imo, and it should be. It's just a natural fit. A "nerfed" Rakata medpac is still going to be a useful thing.

 

But I don't see a reason for other classes to absolutely have it. Pre or post-nerf.

 

As for the items being reuseable -- other crafting classes can make you money, once you start selling. BioChem will never make me any money. I picked the skill because they were items my character wanted.

 

Making them consumable would just eat my money completely dry, and making them not require BioChem would basically nerf all reason I took the profession in the first place. Basically, without the "reuseable" and "exclusive" nature of the items, I would've been better off in a profitable profession, buying medpacs from the BioChemists.

 

Every skill needs personal utility, or we all should just take Slicing and be done with it.

 

This was a good step by BioWare. They just need to give the other crafting classes a little more personal utility. I don't think they're as useless as people claim. Believe me, I really, really wish I could make myself Rakata armor.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Leporello

[wtfnonamefree]

So, the goal is to make all crew skills worthless?

 

Yup.

 

Until that reasoning is explained in more detail, I'll have to assume, that crafting was an afterthought that has not been thought through at all.

 

We had a broken system, that get's 'fixed' into not even being a relevant part of the game anymore.

[Mephane]

Btw: Simple way to make Artifice really useful: Let them produce ALL, and I mean no exceptions, types of color crystals, on both factions.

[Feskitt]

So, the goal is to make all crew skills worthless?

 

Better than having 1 OP. I'm being serious.

 

 

(Though obviously it would be good if all were useful)]

 

 

[Ciry]

If this hasn't been mentioned already,

 

Since you are decreasing the healing/damage of medpacks/grenades, can we get a reduction in the materials used to make them. On my server no one sells grenades. The GTC never has any for sale. I've been attempting to stock the GTC with grenades to see if they would sell but so far they aren't moving.

 

The resources to make the grenades on my server can cost upwards of 9k per grenades. It's no wonder people don't want to pay 9k per use for a one shot item. The same could be said for medpacks as a stack of 5 3k heals runs about 20k on our server.

[BobaFetaCheese]

It makes little sense to require 400 of a certain crew skill to be able to use the end-game items from those professions.

 

I can see what the developers were thinking. It rewards players for specializing in a crew skill by being able to use these very useful items.

 

But not all crew skills offer a useful battle item like a grenade or a medpac. Right off the bat, it makes these crew skills that offer battle items infinitely more useful.

 

Also, requiring the skill level to be 400 to use the items breaks the free-trade market for these items.

 

Look at cultures throughout the world. One area specializes in the production of a certain product, which they trade to another area for that area's specialty. The end effect is that each area ends up with all the fantastic items.

 

Why shouldn't a player be able to specialize in Biochem and trade their fantastic reusable medpacs and stims to other players for their reusable grendades or crafted purple gear?

 

Requiring 400 of that crew skill to use those items means that the items have no trade value. If you already have the required skill to use the item, you can make them yourself. If you don't have the required skill, you can't use them. What's the point of making multiples then? You can't mail them to alts. You can't trade them to friends. You can't auction them, either.

 

It breaks the free-trade market and in the end gimps all the players who could have had the best grenade, the best medpac, etc, etc.

 

And it won't deter players from forcing specialization in these skills. In the past, the Biochem player could just craft a purple medpac for a friend who doesn't have Biochem. Now that isn't possible.

[Stormgaleb]

And again we see that ppl rushing to endgame and the PvP peps ruin the game for the lifespan of this game. Rather than redusing the efict of the items how about ya try takeing the Over inoying BOP on the freken items so others can enjoy them as well. I for one as a Biochem would gladley make them for my friends and guildys for free and ppl who brought me the items as well for free.

 

And as far as the unbalance in pvp make them so there not usable in WZs that would make the balance come back into effect. Rather than just handing out a nerfbat on items.

 

Let try to think outside the box here guys and insted of handing out nerfs lets just make them nonusable in WS's. And if its open world pvp then them the brakes on pvp servers. and making them not bop will bring the open world pvp back into balance as well.

 

Lets not start nerfing things that donot need to be nerffed when the game has not even been out a month yet over ppl who wil not be around in 2 months time. its the nature of MMOs thouse ppl change the game for the worse and in a couple months time there not around any more and the rest of us have to suffer for there ignorance.

 

And if yall want to do some fixing of stuff why dont yall sit down about the tank buffs with it only giving us 50% threat increase insted of the 100% compaions get. I beleave that Tanks in Tank form there threat should be increased by 100% due to the lack of DPS put out to help keep threat.

 

Nerfing is never the answer to fixing items or classes.