Fix Juggernauts

[Ironleg]

Ye.except powertechs do 500k-600k in warzones where a juggernaut never comes close to it.

 

This.

 

That is all.

[Impastable]

Juggernauts need some tweaking. I'm playing DPS in Operations and we mostly one-shot the content (Soa bugged). My observations told me Juggernauts are gear-dependent, and even then they still need some attention.

 

Fun class, love playing it, looking forward to seeing what they're like after the patch.

[OrYcle]

you got to be kidding

 

i am jug lvl 50 and tried all possible htbrid and pure specs

 

immortal makes you virtualy immortal in pve and pvp

 

vengeance is insane single target dps

 

rage : well its THE PVP spec if you want to aoe crit for 6k+ and steamroll hordes of enemies in pve and pvp

 

either your just lvl 12 or you need to learn to play

 

if anything, from my expierience juggernaut is overpowered

 

Blatantly false in so many ways. Immortal spec in pvp has very little "actual" mitigation against a majority of the other classes attacks. Some bypass everything altogether. There is no way we are op. I am also 50 Jugg. Please take off the fanboi glasses.

[TheSpacegoat]

I have a 50 Jug, and they are Gear Dep, is it just to much to ask for a little higher threat gen to offset the high dps players in ops. I am constantly watching my taunt and AoE Taunt to try and pull the add's off the ops group.

 

I'm not even asking that a Jug Force Charges in does Smash and you need a Mac Truck to pull agro off of him. but it would be nice that after either pulling or charging, a heal does not pull agro from tank to MH.

 

just saying.

[Dire]

LOL.. I love when low level noobs complain. Don't feed the trolls.

[Braincandle]

For all those posting about how OP the Jugg is in PvE and PvP... I just have some questions. I'm only 32, but I am struggling. I have a BH(Merc) And an Inq(Assassin) close to the same level That I feel have better survivability. I'd played WoW since 2005, until SWtOR came out, so I'm not new to MMO's.

 

Just some questions to help me understand the class a little more:

 

When PvEing(Questing):

What spec do you use?

What Stance?

What Companion?

Most common ability used and why?

 

Same for PvP.

 

 

This isn't a QQ post... More of a, I feel weak and maybe I'm doing something wrong... And I'd like to figure it out. Thanks!

[Barashins]

For pvp, Juggernauts are very gear dependent. I started noticing a big difference when I started getting champ and cent gear. I can hit about 5-6k damage AOE in a smash in rage spec in soresu form and that's a defensive form. I can average about 8-10 medals in warzones by myself even if my team loses. I do have to work a little harder then other classes but if you want a easy button stop complaining and play a different class.

So yeah we are a little OP, on top of that 1.1 Juggs are getting a boost which I think would make the class more OP. Though I can't say much for tank spec and pve.

 

Also Jugg rage spec+Merc heal equals amazing combination if you want to have fun just killing people left and right in warzones. I never die! Also Biochem goes a long way.

 

If you want some tips and pointers in playing a DPS rage Jugg I suggest going to http://guard-this.com/

[Braincandle]

Awesome website, I appreciate it. I'll be reading it now. Thank you, and thanks in advance to anyone else who responds!

[PrenticeGA]

For all those posting about how OP the Jugg is in PvE and PvP... I just have some questions. I'm only 32, but I am struggling. I have a BH(Merc) And an Inq(Assassin) close to the same level That I feel have better survivability. I'd played WoW since 2005, until SWtOR came out, so I'm not new to MMO's.

 

Just some questions to help me understand the class a little more:

 

When PvEing(Questing):

What spec do you use?

What Stance?

What Companion?

Most common ability used and why?

 

Same for PvP.

 

 

This isn't a QQ post... More of a, I feel weak and maybe I'm doing something wrong... And I'd like to figure it out. Thanks!

 

1.) I went immortal because I liked being able to tank flashpoints and heroics.

 

2.) Defensive stance since the mitigation benefits against elites or strong packs outweigh the slight dps increase of the neutral stance.

 

3.) Vette until the mid thirties to low forties then I switched to Quinn when I had the gear to make him a good healer. At my current level (47) I can solo all of the same level 2+ heroics, anything in the world (without ever having to meditate), and duo all of the 4 person heroics.

 

4.) Um, all of them really. Pretty much all of my abilities get used when they are off of cooldown with priority going to scream and immortals 41 point talent. You're baseline rage dump is the same as it is at level one. Always hit retaliate when it procs.

 

Honestly the class is easy mode to level once you hit 30 and just slightly slow before that. Use vette until 35 to keep up decent pack clearing times and then quinn after once you get some decent AoE youself with Smash and the other AoE ability. I can solo open world champs without ever dropping below 90% health and not using any cooldowns. Granted other classes can as well, and faster.. but they also don't get instant grouped for FPs or heroics unless they are a healer.

 

edit:

 

I also have a 35 powertech and a 40 healing spec merc. The jugg is by far the easiest to level for me.

Edited January 13, 2012 by PrenticeGA

[otterscrubber]

Juggernauts are great the way they are! My 50 juggernauts is fully Immortal spec and is awesome in pvp and pve.

 

At any lvl before 30 it will feel a bit weak because you are missing most of the useful abilities.

 

Keep playing it, you won't be disappointed.

 

This may be true but I agree with another poster who stated that it should ALL be fun, not just after 30th level. I know this is something that will get adjusted at a later date, but it's a little disappointing to have to grind a character for 30 levels before they start excelling at what they are supposed to be good at. Especially if other classes come out blazing out of the lvl 1 gate.

 

Sounds like Juggs are going to be exactly like WoW warriors. They had a lot of issues that made them hard to play at first as well until they have evolved into their current awesomeness. Although it begs the question why the developers of this game didn't learn from others errors when designing this class.

[alexisamonster]

as a level 50 immortal spec jug i have 2 main complaints

 

1. our damage is by far the lowest of any class, I know tank's are not suppose to do a lot of damage but at our current point we tickle at best.

 

2. we need some type of resistance to elemental/internal damage. at 50 with 0 buffs i have 45% damage reduction to physical attacks, but only 10% to elemental/internal damage. In pvp sorcerer's absolutely wreck my **** because i have no damage mitigation against them which, as a tank, is stupid. Having a whole class who can do pretty much true damage to you really hurts your ability to tank in pvp.

[studweizer]

Rage system makes the class even more gimp, while other classes are using their abilities already on you, all you're doing is hitting the regular attack for 30 damage trying to build up rage.

 

Between saber throw, charge, enrage. You should't have to start a fight with 0 rage.

[PrenticeGA]

This may be true but I agree with another poster who stated that it should ALL be fun, not just after 30th level. I know this is something that will get adjusted at a later date, but it's a little disappointing to have to grind a character for 30 levels before they start excelling at what they are supposed to be good at. Especially if other classes come out blazing out of the lvl 1 gate.

 

Sounds like Juggs are going to be exactly like WoW warriors. They had a lot of issues that made them hard to play at first as well until they have evolved into their current awesomeness. Although it begs the question why the developers of this game didn't learn from others errors when designing this class.

 

 

I wouldn't say I felt weak pre 30 though. Vette's amazing dps more then makes up for my lack of dps and my durability allowed for constant chain pulling. Seeing as how this game is built around a companion solo questing I didn't feel off put basically being a hunters pet from 20-30 while vetter played the role of beastmaster.

[lotj]

Playing a tanking guard on the republic side, so I'll end up using the wrong terminology.

 

Leveling up, the guard's rotation was clunky but I was able to solo everything pretty easily with a dps companion. We have enough def cd's to survive even some basic 2-man pulls (using the healer comp) provided we kill the weakest stuff first and micromanage the comp. Flashpoints were kind of a taunt-spammy mess, but it was hard to tell if that was due to level differences (ran a lot with higher lvl dps) or anything else.

 

How we perform while leveling up really doesn't matter, though. The game should be balanced more for max-level play.

 

At max level, I think we're in an "okay" place if you consider the guardian's tanking role in PvP. We guard flags and protect healers. With some level of gear, it takes a significantly long, focused assault by 3-4 enemy players to take down. Throw out a yell in /ops when the zerg approaches and you'll be able to buy enough time for reinforcements to come (or for them to cap a lesser defended point). In huttball, def cd's + guardian leap + a stealth anchor point near the goal is basically a guaranteed cap.

 

I wouldn't call any of this OP for PvP -- just powerful when used correctly. Every class seems to have a set of moves that are really powerful when used correctly.

 

I haven't done any operations yet in PvE, but have cleared out most of the hard-mode flashpoints. This is where some of the problems start to show up -- our damage and threat is absolutely abysmal with a straight tank-spec. Pull mitigation is absolutely horrible until we get the force sweep and riposte buffs rolling, to the point where I was always pulling large® groups with a def cd popped. Being knocked back/stunned immediately after the pull makes it even worse -- something I don't think the ranged tanks have to deal with (shadow may have something else, too).

 

My solution was to try out a hybrid def/vig build that's weighted more heavily on the vig side. This doubled my dps (& threat) and gained some very nice tanking talents (stun/knockback immunity after leap, shared guardian leap buff, 20% reduced damage after leap, increased end), at the cost of 6% increased internal/elemental damage and additional focus generation (something that wasn't an issue). We went from struggling to kill bosses due to their enrage, to easily powering through pretty much all of the hardmode flashpoints -- with ease -- overnight, and no new gear.

 

From what little I've seen of the other tanks (pugs from the group dailies), they dominate us when it comes to damage -- both single target & aoe.

 

So, at level 50.. here's my rundown :

 

The tanking tree is absolutely terrible. The late-tree talent points are almost all centered around focus generation with little mitigation or threat talents. Our only "high threat" ability (by the tooltips, anyway) is single target and has a 1m cd. We have no hard-hitting aoe, and force sweep is on a 12s cd (talented). The bulk of our mitigation comes from buffs/debuffs that causes us to take entirely too much spike damage on larger trash pulls (even with appropriate cc) and forces us to use a def cd right away.

 

The way threat works in this game, we need to be ~60-70% of a dps in order to maintain aggro w/o taunt. We can do this single-target, but it's straight-up razor's edge the entire time, and we lose aggro if we botch our rotation (or two hilt strikes get dodged in a row) if we have approximately equivalent geared/leveled dps (especially shadows & vanguards). Changing targets is problematic, because our big hitters will undoubtedly be on their long cd's and we'll be in tickle mode for the first 15s of the new mob.

 

The hybrid spec I'm rolling now, though, feels right. There doesn't seem to be a drop in survivability, and dps & threat are much more reliable and steady. Even the rotation is simplified -- going from needing to keep virtually all of our abilities active and used constantly (for one reason or another), to something similar to the other tank's rotations.

 

So... if you're not level 50, keep leveling and if stuff doesn't change, you'll probably start seeing what people are talking about. If you are level 50 and are getting frustrated with guard/imm tanking, give this spec a shot :

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500fMG0u0MZhGrMMhzzM.1

[Barashins]

For all those posting about how OP the Jugg is in PvE and PvP... I just have some questions. I'm only 32, but I am struggling. I have a BH(Merc) And an Inq(Assassin) close to the same level That I feel have better survivability. I'd played WoW since 2005, until SWtOR came out, so I'm not new to MMO's.

 

Just some questions to help me understand the class a little more:

 

When PvEing(Questing):

What spec do you use?

What Stance?

What Companion?

Most common ability used and why?

 

Same for PvP.

 

 

This isn't a QQ post... More of a, I feel weak and maybe I'm doing something wrong... And I'd like to figure it out. Thanks!

 

1) When PvEing I went rage spec because I pvp a lot and didn't feel like changing back and forth. I never had a problem tanking for flashpoint and elite mobs, but I have a amazing merc healer friend that I run with. The only problem I did run into was the last boss for my class quest.

 

2) I use rage spec and focus my stats on power and surge. This is my current spec for pvp and pve

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cZhMMZGr0rdrMdhR.1

 

3) I use soresu form, Shii-cho I really can't tell a major difference in dps but soresu helps me tank mobs a lot better.

 

4) I used Vette at first until I got Jaesa, then I switched over to Broonmark when I started getting a lot of duplicate gear from the champ bags from pvp. To my surprise he did really good in dps and off tank really well. Also he does knock back which is awesome for pve. I cant say I did a lot of pvp with my companion since world pvp isnt viable yet.

 

5) I usually open up with saber throw and then force charge to build up my rage. Then force crush to build up my shockwave, obliterate then force scream which I can crit for 2k sometimes. Once my shockwave builds up to four I use smash. If I'm low on rage I use sundering assault and assault. Don't forget about enrage. If they are not dead yet from my 5-6k crit smash then I use force choke then force push and repeat from the beginning.

 

6) Be sure to max out your biochem so that you can use reusable med and stim pack. This is what makes all class have a edge in pvp and pve.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Barashins

[Mazikeen]

This may be true but I agree with another poster who stated that it should ALL be fun, not just after 30th level. I know this is something that will get adjusted at a later date, but it's a little disappointing to have to grind a character for 30 levels before they start excelling at what they are supposed to be good at. Especially if other classes come out blazing out of the lvl 1 gate

 

My Juggernaut is owning mobs, even the gold ones, at level 20. He owned everything up to 20. Between him and Vette, regular mobs die before I can use special abilities (outside of the leap/smash combo I start with)

[Screamster]

I am level 48 and just took down a tough level 50 elite with Quinn. Had to do a bit of running around(kiting), but made it through rather easily.

 

You need to look at how you are playing the jugger class. I have been using Quinn for about 20 levels now and only get in trouble when an "add" comes into play.

 

Good luck.

[orberon]

juggs are fine other then no aoe aggro im 50 on mine i do just fine mob danceing in HM FP but it can be pretty hard for the averge player trying them for tanking you get 1 taunt 1 aoe taunt and smash that it so unless your good at mob dances or you know expert people that understand the idea of CC it can get hard for players in FP while compared to the powertech which dont have your defensive skills juggs have they the aggro masters because of all the aoes they got

[Dcayd]

Not gonna weigh in other than to say that those saying juggs are a tanking class and should do low dps because of it are flat out wrong. Jugg is an Advanced Class with ONE tanking tree, and two dps trees. Saying that is like saying powertechs and assassins shouldn't either because they're tanking classes.

[komotoz]

efficiency or w/e the pvp stat is ....if course your gonna own pvp right now if you have gear that has more than +8 to your pvp stat ! because no one under 50 can get much more than that! so really owning in pvp bracket 10-50 is not really a fair say on who is king of the op zoo.

sure there is the bolster effect ..... PVP stat at 50 is what like 150+ .

lets see who is op when there is 50 only pvp and i thought this was about tanking not much in pvp needs a tank ..... what to kite some people away from something ....lets talk raids and flashpoints. whos the better tank in there !

 

I have a 42 sith jug and i have been losing interest in this class since 33 i have played a lot of mmos so its not a newb thing .....

 

but as for tanking i'll wait till they get this animation bs sorted out

 

yeah remember post back here when the 50 only bracket is out and tell me how op sith warrs are then when your not fighting lvl 11s

[Xanxari]

lvl 50 jugger here 4/5 EV nightmare Main tank. rank 60 in PvP.

 

PvP iv tryed immortal PvP i loved it until players found out what skills they should use on tanks or heavy armor players..... a little hit here being tank spec in PvP = nothing but 5k more health. shield chance dont work on most skills, our defence is a joke since they also dont work on most skills and our armor is also a joke since they dont work on most skills. you bring nothing as a tank but being a noob target... "a target for noobs"

 

PvE we lack insane amount of AoE we got one 360 AoE with a wooping 12 sec cd and hits for if we are lucky 1900 crit damage on max 5 targets, we got a second AoE that is a frontel Cone i think 180 or 160 max 5 target hit on crit for 500, no cd but cost 3 rage so we can cast that every 4.5 sec.

 

Single target we are fine, but we are still around 20%+ damage behind BH tanks, and thats the reason a BH tank took over MT. yes we got two awesome 3min cd damage reduction and one 30% more hp for 12 sec. but you never need them on boss fights.

 

now abourt our tanking tree. we should only go 14 up in immortal, and then 27 in vengence to be in our best mitigation build we can debate how well Sonic barrier really is!, but this 14/27 immortal/vengence spec. makes us even more useless when it comes to AoE, aka trash mobs that leaves us only good for boss fight, but who here will only bring a tank for pure boss fights and not a tank that can do both?

 

Vengence dps PvE are really good, we are in the top when we dps on bosses, and i dont think its broken, well we could use some love for AoE, but i would say Vengence are really good for PvE. and should be our PvE dps spec.

 

Rage dps spec is awesome for burst dps and yes we can get some really high crits, but we are to dependent on our CDs of smash and crush and choke, to make it a 100% powerhouse mashine like other classes. a Marauder is 30% better in rage spec then we are and got the tools to get away if it get to hot for them.

 

overall they need to fix the jugger tank in PvE and PvP, im fine with jugger PvP when im rage spec and im fine with jugger PvE when im vengence spec. but tanking is starting to become a joke for me

[Mazikeen]

now abourt our tanking tree. we should only go 14 up in immortal, and then 27 in vengence to be in our best mitigation build we can debate how well Sonic barrier really is!, but this 14/27 immortal/vengence spec. makes us even more useless when it comes to AoE, aka trash mobs that leaves us only good for boss fight, but who here will only bring a tank for pure boss fights and not a tank that can do both?

 

BioWare has confirmed they want to add dual spec (NOT AC swapping) so changing classes too much is going to be delicate at best

[Thurinlore]

Juggernaut - Warrior

Commando - Pally+Arcane mage

 

Fixed for the grav round spammers.

[ydenneksirhc]

Sith Juggernauts are by far the worst class in the game. Their damage and defense is just outright horrible. they need buffs big time. Bioware please fix this or I will have to quit the game because this is the class I really wanted to be good.

 

Rage juggernauts are the MOST overpowered in the game at the moment. My best friend from high school does nearly 600-700k dmg every match and me and the rest of the warzone players are in the 200k range, with full war hero. Properly speccing and playing you can AoE crit up to 7k with smash ON MULTIPLE TARGETS.

 

I dont know if your a little kid, or just trolling, but they need a serious nerf.

[carlosg]

Hmm... not sure you noticed but the original post is from January. I don't think this discussion is even worth anymore, things have changed since then.