Regretting my decision to go Vanguard

[Turosis]

I had a lot of fun with Vanguard until I hit around level 40. Since then it's been a drag.

 

Shield spec, I'm sure it's viable as a tank in pve but I was still taking 5.5k crits from Operatives in pvp. Really, 5.5k crit? I was dead long before the stun wore off. Would be nice if I could get out of stun more than once every 2 minutes.

 

I'm not assault spec. What is the point of our Assault Plastique top level skill? Sure, it does a little more damage than the stick grenade (which we've had since the very beginning) but it doesn't do any splash damage. Spent all my points getting to it but the level 1 skill makes more sense unless I'm in a 1 on 1 battle. As far as damage output in pvp.. I can't even move the bar on most Imps.

 

Why doesn't our interrupt keep a healer from healing the next 4 seconds?

 

Yeah, I'm complaining.. big deal. I'm not going to claim to be great a pvp and I know I could improve my armor some (just hit 50 last night). But shesh.. in an 8 on 8 fight.. the imps are going to win 80% of the time. That can't all be attributed to me and how bad I pvp. I haven't been in a warzone in the past 2 weeks where the top 4 spots weren't imps.

 

So for anyone reading this that wants to pvp, my suggestion is don't do it as Vanguard.

[canobeansPL]

When will people stop dumping their personal tastes and/or inadequacies on the classes they play? Vanguards are perfectly capable in PvP. Barring extremely minor issues, like occassional stunlock kills by Agents or the generally lackluster performance versus Sorcerers, we are friggin' bosses on the battlefield. Tactics demolishes casters, Tactics/Assault and pure Assault do great damage, while anything that plays with Ion Cell is a horror to deal with. Get a half decent healer to go along with and a large number of typical pugs are yours. Read up on stuff, too.

 

Also, if you get beaten up so regularly and apparently the Empire "always has the top spots", then maybe your server has a pvp population problem and you should solve it by joining/creating a pvp oriented guild.

 

TLDR version: Geez, grow up. Use that brain for something other than whining. Learn to play. Organize.

[slwight]

Why doesn't our interrupt keep a healer from healing the next 4 seconds?

 

Enemies are only locked out of the interrupted skill--not all skills.

Edited January 12, 2012 by slwight

[Neptunius]

This post should be in section http://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=76

Since it's about PvP.

 

Btw, this class isnt the only one that takes A lot of dmg from those in PvP.

[FIGHTorFIGHT]

The problem is you are going against better gear and probably pre-made groups. Every class feels bad in those conditions.

 

Secondly vanguard is not designed to instagib people. You won't be doing high up front damage, but you can do a lot of sustained damage because you live a lot longer than most classes, especially with heals.

 

If an op jumps on you, you have to blow cooldowns to survive then you can probably take them, otherwise you just need better gear or a healer.

[DesperadoIG]

people have tested the defense / shield skills and have found that anything not using the "weapon damage" type is not being defended

 

IE: a majority of the damage in pvp is not being mitigated by defense skills at all

[Morrismonster]

people have tested the defense / shield skills and have found that anything not using the "weapon damage" type is not being defended

 

IE: a majority of the damage in pvp is not being mitigated by defense skills at all

 

Is that working as intended? Hmmm. Seems pointless for me to equip a shield generator for PVP then.

[arknath]

As a shield specced vanguard I am yet to lose to an operative 1 vs 1. Learn to cure their cc fast enough (make better keybinds), pop defense/shield relics + damage reduction, accuracy debuff and just do /laugh at them as they won't be able to take you down whatsoever. If you have problems as a shield specced tank vs this class you are either undergeared or doing something wrong. Period.

 

6k damage ? so what? You should be having 16500 hp++ (more if you went all the way for endurance) Their burst (3-4 first special abilities) can max take 9k of that. Then you have self heal(no, I am not talking about commander heals. Vanguard has a ticking heal too which get better the more hp you have), absorbs. All this without even touching stims/adrenals/madpacks/pvp medpacks.

 

solo Vanguard >>>> solo Operative

Edited January 12, 2012 by arknath

[Ossos]

I had a lot of fun with Vanguard until I hit around level 40. Since then it's been a drag.

 

Shield spec, I'm sure it's viable as a tank in pve but I was still taking 5.5k crits from Operatives in pvp. Really, 5.5k crit? I was dead long before the stun wore off. Would be nice if I could get out of stun more than once every 2 minutes.

 

I'm not assault spec. What is the point of our Assault Plastique top level skill? Sure, it does a little more damage than the stick grenade (which we've had since the very beginning) but it doesn't do any splash damage. Spent all my points getting to it but the level 1 skill makes more sense unless I'm in a 1 on 1 battle. As far as damage output in pvp.. I can't even move the bar on most Imps.

 

Why doesn't our interrupt keep a healer from healing the next 4 seconds?

 

Yeah, I'm complaining.. big deal. I'm not going to claim to be great a pvp and I know I could improve my armor some (just hit 50 last night). But shesh.. in an 8 on 8 fight.. the imps are going to win 80% of the time. That can't all be attributed to me and how bad I pvp. I haven't been in a warzone in the past 2 weeks where the top 4 spots weren't imps.

 

So for anyone reading this that wants to pvp, my suggestion is don't do it as Vanguard.

 

Something you MUST realize: Armor and Shields mean nothing, save for the shields that JC/SIs can put up. The reason is that the damage players do is classified as Internal/Elemental/Energy/Force. Only things like kenetic damage or damage classified as "weapon damage" are mitigated by your reactive shield and your armor; this is one of the reasons Scoundrels/Operatives hit so hard. They have to hit hard because they don't have a gap closer for escaping players, but their hits aren't mitigated at all...thus, there is an issue with how hard the damage is coming in.

 

So when you say Scoundrels/Operatives are OP!!! What you should be saying is "FIX MITIGATION BOIWARE!!!!"

 

 

All this beign said, you're in a bad place if you're a shield spec vanguard. Your shield does nothing for you, and you do minimal damage. Quite honestly, your biggest asset is your ability to aid other DPS classes by guarding them, and to factor as a nussance for enemy players trying to capture a node.

 

Now, given that you're 40, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND you jump over to Tactics. You'll do more damage, you'll have more abilities to harrass your enemy, and you'll probably fare better in PvP.

[Syas]

I had a lot of fun with Vanguard until I hit around level 40. Since then it's been a drag.

 

Shield spec, I'm sure it's viable as a tank in pve but I was still taking 5.5k crits from Operatives in pvp. Really, 5.5k crit? I was dead long before the stun wore off. Would be nice if I could get out of stun more than once every 2 minutes.

The issue is you are facing Operatives with Expertise gear. Hit 50 and get some Expertise gear, things will balance out then.

[Ossos]

The issue is you are facing Operatives with Expertise gear. Hit 50 and get some Expertise gear, things will balance out then.

 

QFT.

 

When the 50 level bracket warzones hit it's going to be a wake-up for a ton of 50s who find out that day that they're really not that great at PvP. For everyone else, we'll all have a sigh of relief.

 

To those who are sub-50 and have been fighting 50s for a while, the practice and lessons learned will be invaluable while they finish leveling and will make all the difference when they jump into the 50 bracket.

[qwinnet]

I don't PvP but noticed in the early to mid forties mobs got alot tougher and I had to be more careful on my VG. Now at 50 with nice gear I can handle about anything short of multiple gold elites. Your gear will catch up and it will get better.

[Clemsonalum]

QFT.

 

When the 50 level bracket warzones hit it's going to be a wake-up for a ton of 50s who find out that day that they're really not that great at PvP. For everyone else, we'll all have a sigh of relief.

 

To those who are sub-50 and have been fighting 50s for a while, the practice and lessons learned will be invaluable while they finish leveling and will make all the difference when they jump into the 50 bracket.

 

Yep I am looking forward to having no 50s facerolling me in PVP here soon.

[SpotlessMind]

I have been a 50 vanguard for a long time. I also had the idea that if I gear up, I can probably tank better in pvp being that my class is a tank. I was so wrong. I am all geared up now with champions gear. Scoundrels, SS, and other damage classes can still tear into me like nothing.

 

The problem here is that there is no such thing as tanking in pvp, because the damage mitigation are split into so many different categories. Now if we can't tank and don't do comparable damage to damage classes then we are just wannabes.

 

I can do some damage with assault spec, but only DPS will increase not my burst. Meaning, by the time I can rack up enough damage to kill my enemy, they would have already burst me down to 0.

 

The problem is we don't fill the role that we are made for which is to tank and obviously we don't fill the role of a burst damage class. We are nothing in pvp other then guards to other players, which is over shadowed by healing. Guarding is the same as healing except we take 50% damage. Healers can heal more damage than we can prevent without taking damage to themselves. Basically, we don't really have a role anywhere in pvp. That is why I am dissatisfied with Vanguard.

Edited January 12, 2012 by SpotlessMind

[Brimestar]

When will people stop dumping their personal tastes and/or inadequacies on the classes they play? Vanguards are perfectly capable in PvP. Barring extremely minor issues, like occassional stunlock kills by Agents or the generally lackluster performance versus Sorcerers, we are friggin' bosses on the battlefield. Tactics demolishes casters, Tactics/Assault and pure Assault do great damage, while anything that plays with Ion Cell is a horror to deal with. Get a half decent healer to go along with and a large number of typical pugs are yours. Read up on stuff, too.

 

Also, if you get beaten up so regularly and apparently the Empire "always has the top spots", then maybe your server has a pvp population problem and you should solve it by joining/creating a pvp oriented guild.

 

TLDR version: Geez, grow up. Use that brain for something other than whining. Learn to play. Organize.

 

QFE...There are only 2 classes I hate seeing and he named them both, I love my Vanguard, and so do my teammates.

[origional]

TLDR version: Geez, grow up. Use that brain for something other than whining. Learn to play. Organize.

 

God I hate the l2p crowd. Always obnoxious.

[Nikodeamas]

I have been a 50 vanguard for a long time. I also had the idea that if I gear up, I can probably tank better in pvp being that my class is a tank. I was so wrong. I am all geared up now with champions gear. Scoundrels, SS, and other damage classes can still tear into me like nothing.

 

The problem here is that there is no such thing as tanking in pvp, because the damage mitigation are split into so many different categories. Now if we can't tank and don't do comparable damage to damage classes then we are just wannabes.

 

I can do some damage with assault spec, but only DPS will increase not my burst. Meaning, by the time I can rack up enough damage to kill my enemy, they would have already burst me down to 0.

 

The problem is we don't fill the role that we are made for which is to tank and obviously we don't fill the role of a burst damage class. We are nothing in pvp other then guards to other players, which is over shadowed by healing. Guarding is the same as healing except we take 50% damage. Healers can heal more damage than we can prevent without taking damage to themselves. Basically, we don't really have a role anywhere in pvp. That is why I am dissatisfied with Vanguard.

 

This. x1000000

 

Keep leveling the VGs/PTs to 50. You will all agree with this post soon enough.

 

Let me save you the trouble. In my personal opinion, and its mine, all mine. Flame away..

Tanks in this game are nothing but dps with slightly higher health points, and higher armor count.

 

Basically, we are dps that takes 3/4 more GCDs to kill, and we have half the damage of a normal dps.

 

Think about it before you choose this AC, or any other "tank" AC for that matter. Its not just Vanguards/PT with this problem. 60+ page thread of documented and video proof on the PvP forums and zero reply from Bioware.

 

I dont think there has been a 60+ page issue they HAVENT responded to, except this one.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Nikodeamas

[Mashien]

God I hate the l2p crowd. Always obnoxious.

 

HARD.

 

How bout suggesting some ways to improve his experience or, and this may sound crazy, dont reply at all?

 

PvP'ing as vanguard is about finding your nieche in my opinion. We can do ok damage if we spec right but I am loving shield spec's utility. I live forever, can help prolong the life of my team mates, pull people into fire or drop them into acid. Mitigate damage against my team mates by throwing out my taunts. I can sit on a healer and destroy their chances of getting a heal off.

 

Huttball is the perfect game for us. with Storm, grappling, guard we bring plenty of toys to the party.

 

I knew I was rolling a tank when I chose Vanguard and that PvP wouldnt be all about damage because of this.

 

A well timed interrupt, Grappling, or guard can make or break a battle. And there is nothing better than having 5 imps trying to kill you because you are just so god damn irritating.

[Nikodeamas]

HARD.

 

How bout suggesting some ways to improve his experience or, and this may sound crazy, dont reply at all?

 

PvP'ing as vanguard is about finding your nieche in my opinion. We can do ok damage if we spec right but I am loving shield spec's utility. I live forever, can help prolong the life of my team mates, pull people into fire or drop them into acid. Mitigate damage against my team mates by throwing out my taunts. I can sit on a healer and destroy their chances of getting a heal off.

 

Huttball is the perfect game for us. with Storm, grappling, guard we bring plenty of toys to the party.

 

I knew I was rolling a tank when I chose Vanguard and that PvP wouldnt be all about damage because of this.

 

A well timed interrupt, Grappling, or guard can make or break a battle. And there is nothing better than having 5 imps trying to kill you because you are just so gosh darn irritating.

 

 

 

As i said above i am irritated with my Van, however, everything this player said is 100% true. My annoyance comes from a specific issue that isnt a confirmed bug yet. I hate to say it but, if you do roll a Van, for now, make absolutely sure you choose Biochem and its subsidiaries.

 

 

In my opinion, and im sure many will disagree.. our utility is mostly (80%+) the only thing keeping us afloat at this time. That doesnt go without saying, our utility? We have lots and lots and lots of it. My problem is, Utility doesnt make you a tank.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Nikodeamas

[ururururu]

I think vanguard is quite fun to play.. it lets me scratch my melee itch without giving up range capability. Decent damage, beast guard, the best form of aoe taunt I have seen... what more do you want? Oh right, shield chance on internal or elemental damage... (cmn bioware do it already..)

[pyrobot]

Yeah I'm going to assume you just don't know how to play, or can't read numbers when you see them on your screen. I have no trouble as vanguard, end of story. Also you have to consider that you HAVE to play with geared 50's right now. So if someone did crit you for 5.5k, that's probably someone in full pvp gear. Oh, assault plastique does AOE, the range is just minimal. Have a nice day.

[Joskara]

Hmmm, in my opinion Vanguard/Powertech is one of the best PvP classes. You can be melee dps with pyro/tactics or you can be a tank. There is a lot of attacks which are weapondamage. Everything that use a saber or a blaster more or less. You have got heavy armor too which mitigates energy/kinetic damage.

 

Guard is nice but it is built on the fact that the guarded healer should heal you. In many cases they just dps instead and you end up taking 50% of their damage.

 

Besides thet you are the class with most internal/elemental attacks which are not mitigated by anything. Some spamable even....

[Waagabond]

Vanguards are one of the stronger pvp classes.

The synergy between tactics and assault is very good.

You should not max out either tactics or assault as vanguard if you want to pvp, but have a hybrid build.

 

Even as Shield spec, you go hybrid, you just go up to storm and thats basically it.

Its a known fact that shields only proc on weapon attacks, which is what..like 10% of the attacks on you.

 

Storm is the real reason to go shield spec. Your armor dont help versus elemental damage.. Shield is not bad for PVP but vanguards shine when they go hybrid for tactics/assault.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Waagabond

[Waagabond]

I have been a 50 vanguard for a long time. I also had the idea that if I gear up, I can probably tank better in pvp being that my class is a tank. I was so wrong. I am all geared up now with champions gear. Scoundrels, SS, and other damage classes can still tear into me like nothing.

 

The problem here is that there is no such thing as tanking in pvp, because the damage mitigation are split into so many different categories. Now if we can't tank and don't do comparable damage to damage classes then we are just wannabes.

 

I can do some damage with assault spec, but only DPS will increase not my burst. Meaning, by the time I can rack up enough damage to kill my enemy, they would have already burst me down to 0.

 

The problem is we don't fill the role that we are made for which is to tank and obviously we don't fill the role of a burst damage class. We are nothing in pvp other then guards to other players, which is over shadowed by healing. Guarding is the same as healing except we take 50% damage. Healers can heal more damage than we can prevent without taking damage to themselves. Basically, we don't really have a role anywhere in pvp. That is why I am dissatisfied with Vanguard.

 

No offence. But you saved a spot in hall of shame if thats your view of vanguards.

 

Vanguards can do very heavy damage while being able to shut down casters, take a ton of beating.

Our ability kite alone, makes us impossible to beat for any, any melee class in the game.

Then we are also able to take on all other classes with not much problem.

 

In the end, this game is well balanced and it mainly boils down to player skills.

But it also boils down to this: a 31 point talent skill does not make you super.

Often the best abilities especially for pvp are in the low and mid tiers of the trees.

And as such, you are often able to take all good abilities from TWO trees, if you spec hybrid.

Try Shield/Tactics, shield/assault, or tactics/assault, with a 60/40 split approx and see.

0/23/18 for example is an insane spec.

Vanguards strenght is that tactics have so much synergy with assault.

[Lexlo]

Vanguards are quite useless/frustrating to play until you get good PvP gear.

 

 

 

Try the Assault Tree, btw.