jmcnelis Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 we could all at least stop *snip* hanging out posting rage posts Really? You honestly think it would stop the rage posts? The first time that something had to be pushed back, this place would go nuts! It's the nature of people that love to rage on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eroiqua Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Scheduling date ranges in advance and just telling what date ranges a wave spans is two different things. I simply do not see what would go wrong with saying, "We just let in wave #2 which takes us through midday on July 30th." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortisMortavius Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 Scheduling date ranges in advance and just telling what date ranges a wave spans is two different things. I simply do not see what would go wrong with saying, "We just let in wave #2 which takes us through midday on July 30th." Exactly and that's what I broke my original post into two parts. What they should absolutely just tell us and what they would preferably tell us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahrd Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I think secretly there performing a forum stress test.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcnelis Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Scheduling date ranges in advance and just telling what date ranges a wave spans is two different things. I simply do not see what would go wrong with saying, "We just let in wave #2 which takes us through midday on July 30th." I believe it comes down to the fact that people will still try to figure out when they will get in, and would complain if their estimate is off. "You said wave 1 was through July 30th! That means I should have been in wave 3! But I wasn't!! You suck, Bioware!! I'm cancelling my pre-order and I'm going to sit in the corner and cry!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortisMortavius Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 I believe it comes down to the fact that people will still try to figure out when they will get in, and would complain if their estimate is off. "You said wave 1 was through July 30th! That means I should have been in wave 3! But I wasn't!! You suck, Bioware!! I'm cancelling my pre-order and I'm going to sit in the corner and cry!!" But everyone is complaining now... Would it not at least cut down on SOME of the complaining? I see that as a step in the right direction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eroiqua Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I believe it comes down to the fact that people will still try to figure out when they will get in, and would complain if their estimate is off. "You said wave 1 was through July 30th! That means I should have been in wave 3! But I wasn't!! You suck, Bioware!! I'm cancelling my pre-order and I'm going to sit in the corner and cry!!" That's happening now, but with information that is far more sketchy. Give better information, the estimates will be better, less people will be in the situation you mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothicSaint Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) People are crying cause they're not giving the info, so they don't know when they will be in. People would cry if they DID give the info, and something happened, and they weren't able to log in when they were told. Either way, people are going to cry. Except if people were given a specific time and didn't get in the crying would turn into rage and the forums would fill up with adolescent screaming how Bioware is the antichrist and should be destroyed. Of course then the pack mentality would take over , which would snowball into mass suicide. Hmmmmm!! I wonder Hey Bioware give us specific times that we will get in and offer us free puppies too. Edited December 14, 2011 by GothicSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcnelis Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 But everyone is complaining now... Would it not at least cut down on SOME of the complaining? I see that as a step in the right direction... It might. It may cut out a small percentage of the complaining. However, people would still be complaining that there is even a need for staggered access, which is seems is what the majority of complaints is about. Which, again, is funny, since that has been known about for QUITE a while, and there really wasn't much of a complaint about it then. People feel that they are entitled to early access. What they don't understand is that it did NOT have to be offered. Official launch is the 20th. This is just a bonus for those that pre-ordered. They didn't have to give it to anybody. People need to stop feeling like they are owed something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawfox Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Why can't they just say what days the waves span? Preferably add; what waves are planned for what days... Why is that so much to ask for? WHAT DAYS ?! seriously .. i expect at least hours, not days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcnelis Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 WHAT DAYS ?! seriously .. i expect at least hours, not days He means what pre-order days each eave spans. Like, wave 1 will cover people that pre-ordered from July 25th through August 5th, wave 2 August 6th through August 31st, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortisMortavius Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 It might. It may cut out a small percentage of the complaining. However, people would still be complaining that there is even a need for staggered access, which is seems is what the majority of complaints is about. Which, again, is funny, since that has been known about for QUITE a while, and there really wasn't much of a complaint about it then. People feel that they are entitled to early access. What they don't understand is that it did NOT have to be offered. Official launch is the 20th. This is just a bonus for those that pre-ordered. They didn't have to give it to anybody. People need to stop feeling like they are owed something. Actually, for those that purchased based on the email that we were sent at the end of T-day beta we ARE entitled. Their promotion material clearly states: "Pre-Order Now, You may play up to five days early" Which is ambiguous in itself and read to me (when I clicked the link to preorder) like I was being given 5 days early access... If I told you, "You may go to the bathroom up to 5 hours from now" would you not assume you could go any time between now and the next 5 hours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortisMortavius Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 ^^ In other words... There is a big difference between the words MIGHT and MAY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcnelis Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) Actually, for those that purchased based on the email that we were sent at the end of T-day beta we ARE entitled. Their promotion material clearly states: "Pre-Order Now, You may play up to five days early" Which is ambiguous in itself and read to me (when I clicked the link to preorder) like I was being given 5 days early access... If I told you, "You may go to the bathroom up to 5 hours from now" would you not assume you could go any time between now and the next 5 hours? You MAY play UP TO five days early. Important parts all-capped. Hence, you may NOT play up to five days early. You may only get to play one day early. If you assumed that it meant you were getting five days of early access, that's not Bioware's fault. That's your own fault for assuming that. And in your example, you need to put it in the same context. If the bathroom is small, and there are a large amount of people that need to use it, and you were controlling access to the bathroom, letting the first people in line in first, then I'd have to wait. I don't get to go in now, or when I want. I have to wait till it's my turn, based on my spot in line. Here's the thing, though. You can say, "You'll be in, in three hours" and I'd be fine. But, what if the people in front of me had to spend extra time in there? That throws your estimate off. Now, I'm told I need to wait four and a half hours! That's why people will complain, no matter what. *edit* And yes, there is a difference between may and might. But it's also not a will. It didn't say you WILL play up to five days, it was you MAY play up to five days. That makes may and might a lot closer, when you compare it to will. Edited December 14, 2011 by jmcnelis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voidsurvivor Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Why is that so much to ask for? Apparently, it's more fun when people are kept in the dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong_Lenis Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 The game is out on the 20th if you dont like waiting then come back on tuesday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asquinol Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 So instead they opt to leave EVERYONE mad all at the same time... Why can they not see it's at least an improvement over what they are doing now? Why are they so unwilling to take steps in the right direction and instead opt to keep EVERYONE aggravated and in the dark? EVERYONE? I'm not mad. Guess I am not included in EVERYONE. I'm going to go cry now that I know I don't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortisMortavius Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 You MAY play UP TO five days early. Important parts all-capped. Hence, you may NOT play up to five days early. You may only get to play one day early. If you assumed that it meant you were getting five days of early access, that's not Bioware's fault. That's your own fault for assuming that. And in your example, you need to put it in the same context. If the bathroom is small, and there are a large amount of people that need to use it, and you were controlling access to the bathroom, letting the first people in line in first, then I'd have to wait. I don't get to go in now, or when I want. I have to wait till it's my turn, based on my spot in line. Here's the thing, though. You can say, "You'll be in, in three hours" and I'd be fine. But, what if the people in front of me had to spend extra time in there? That throws your estimate off. Now, I'm told I need to wait four and a half hours! That's why people will complain, no matter what. *edit* And yes, there is a difference between may and might. But it's also not a will. It didn't say you WILL play up to five days, it was you MAY play up to five days. That makes may and might a lot closer, when you compare it to will. The definition (Merriam-Webster) of may: a) have the ability to b) have permission to If you state that you MAY do something it means that you CAN do it (in fact Merriam Webster says they are interchangeable as well). I'm not saying that you can't interpret it the way you are stating I'm saying that the more correct and more common colloquial interpretation is that you are granted access for up to 5 days (at your discretion). In all marketing materials there are no other conditions placed on that verbiage. Additionally the site STILL reads the same way; which I now believe to be faulty advertising. If you pre-order TODAY you do not have the ability to gain up to 5 days early access... probably more like ONE day of early access... therefor it is certainly faulty advertising at this point... SO my actual argument here is that this is purposefully misleading advertising... and it really is, I don't think anyone can argue against that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortisMortavius Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 EVERYONE? I'm not mad. Guess I am not included in EVERYONE. I'm going to go cry now that I know I don't exist. I should have stated that everyone, in this case == sum of people currently complaining / are mad No need to cry any more, go back to being happy and waiting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcnelis Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 The definition (Merriam-Webster) of may: a) have the ability to b) have permission to If you state that you MAY do something it means that you CAN do it (in fact Merriam Webster says they are interchangeable as well). I'm not saying that you can't interpret it the way you are stating I'm saying that the more correct and more common colloquial interpretation is that you are granted access for up to 5 days (at your discretion). In all marketing materials there are no other conditions placed on that verbiage. Additionally the site STILL reads the same way; which I now believe to be faulty advertising. If you pre-order TODAY you do not have the ability to gain up to 5 days early access... probably more like ONE day of early access... therefor it is certainly faulty advertising at this point... SO my actual argument here is that this is purposefully misleading advertising... and it really is, I don't think anyone can argue against that. Interesting that you conveniently left out some of the definitions. ALSO from Merriam Webster: "used to indicate possibility or probability <you may be right> <things you may need> ; sometimes used interchangeably with can <one of those slipups that may happen from time to time — Jessica Mitford> ; sometimes used where might would be expected <you may think from a little distance that the country was solid woods — Robert Frost>" So, you MAY be able to play up to 5 days can also mean you MIGHT be able to play up to 5 days. I'm not sure why you decided to leave out an entire part of the definition of the word. Did you think that I may not know what I am talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortisMortavius Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 Interesting that you conveniently left out some of the definitions. ALSO from Merriam Webster: "used to indicate possibility or probability <you may be right> <things you may need> ; sometimes used interchangeably with can <one of those slipups that may happen from time to time — Jessica Mitford> ; sometimes used where might would be expected <you may think from a little distance that the country was solid woods — Robert Frost>" So, you MAY be able to play up to 5 days can also mean you MIGHT be able to play up to 5 days. I'm not sure why you decided to leave out an entire part of the definition of the word. Did you think that I may not know what I am talking about? That definition is the least used and you've only further proved my point that it's misleading especially considering the most used and common colloquial definition ... AKA AMBIGUOUS (like I've been stating all along) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcnelis Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 That definition is the least used and you've only further proved my point that it's misleading especially considering the most used and common colloquial definition ... AKA AMBIGUOUS (like I've been stating all along) It's still a definition, and a well used one at that, even if you seem to think that it's not. It's also not ambiguous. The majority of people I've seen complaining knew exactly what they meant, they're just upset about it that it's happening the way it is. However, if you want to believe that it was false advertising, or misleading advertising, then you go right ahead. It wasn't, but you just keep on believing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortisMortavius Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 It's still a definition, and a well used one at that, even if you seem to think that it's not. It's also not ambiguous. The majority of people I've seen complaining knew exactly what they meant, they're just upset about it that it's happening the way it is. However, if you want to believe that it was false advertising, or misleading advertising, then you go right ahead. It wasn't, but you just keep on believing it. Do you not understand the definition of ambiguous? "capable of being understood in two or more possible senses or ways" It is entirely ambiguous... You're saying that there are multiple definitions but it's not ambiguous? Which is a total contradiction... You also never addressed the fact that this claim from them still stands... that you have a possibility of playing 5 days early if you preorder today ... certainly you don't believe that do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcnelis Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Do you not understand the definition of ambiguous? "capable of being understood in two or more possible senses or ways" It is entirely ambiguous... You're saying that there are multiple definitions but it's not ambiguous? Which is a total contradiction... You also never addressed the fact that this claim from them still stands... that you have a possibility of playing 5 days early if you preorder today ... certainly you don't believe that do you? I understand the definition of ambiguous. I'm just stating that it really wasn't ambiguous. If it was to you, I'm sorry, but really, there's nothing I can do for you there. And yes, I agree with you on the "up to 5 days" on the site. But that's neither here nor there, considering what your argument was about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Knob Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 4 waves before lunch.. call it a day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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