[Official High Resolution Textures Post] Can we get a clarification on this?

[Kashaan]

Making the game run on lower end systems is fine, but you need to add higher settings for those who choose to use them.

 

Turning medium to 'high' is not a solution.

 

 

Problem is that even high-end systems were crashing.

 

They made the right choice to limit high-res, but they implemented it poorly.

 

Add the option to use high-res for your character and party members BW. It wouldn't take long to code at all, and would be a compromise and good temporary fix to satisfy some of your more upset customers.

[nonforma]

It IS usually the fault of IT, and the reason is because they don't know how to explain the issue in terms that the user can understand. I can testify that doing this is very very difficult.

 

Yep, both the hardest part of the job and the most important in many cases. So here, even if the issue isn't technical, there is clearly a communication problem.

[BeeblesTV]

Problem is that even high-end systems were crashing.

 

They made the right choice to limit high-res, but they implemented it poorly.

 

Add the option to use high-res for your character and party members BW. It wouldn't take long to code at all, and would be a compromise and good temporary fix to satisfy some of your more upset customers.

 

Mine wasn't crashing.

[Blue-Reckloose]

You have no idea how software is developed and are unqualified to comment, nevermind in such an insulting and unnecessary manner.

 

You also don't speak for me. I think the developer response was welcome, complete, measured and honest.

 

I realize that you're probably used to immediate and unconditional gratification to your every complaint, but you're going to have to get over it.

 

Actually, I work for a simulation development company, and part time for a company that develops high end mathematics software.

 

And if you don't have an SSD, I wasn't speaking for you.

 

It is extremely simple, atlassing was not in the game during beta, it was added. Unless SR just blasted a bunch of lies out his rear, the specific reason for doing this was that SPINDLE drives had trouble loading all the textures during normal gameplay. If it was bringing SSD's to their knees (keep in mind, spindles have about 500 iops, SSD's have about 50,000) then the game is literally more HD intensive than a database being accessed by thousands of people simultaneously, which would be the single worst coding ever.

 

So, for me, and others who purchased SSD's specifically to allow for high speed loading of textures from the HD, something like atlassing is a completely worthless feature. And we should be able to disable it if we want.

 

If the atlassing was so poorly implemented so that it cannot simply be turned off at whim, then the whole feature needs to be removed, and fixed, before it is put back in.

 

Adding a checkbox for disable should only take a week, removing a broken feature should only take a week. It's really just a matter of "ok, we put a checkbox in" "now we test" "oh, it works" "done". If the feature is broken, then it's "remove code" "test" "it works" "done".

 

The only possible reason in existence that it couldn't be done in a week, is because the developers did not document anything they did, so nobody really knows what parts of the code do this (which would be beyond ludicrous, and extremely bad for bioware in the long run.)

[skepticck]

That screenshot is from a cinematic in-game. As stated, cinematic scenes use high resolution textures because we have control over how many characters are rendered on-screen at once. This is how the game was always intended to look in cinematics. We did not 'remove' high resolution textures - they were always in the game for use in cinematics.

 

With that said, thank you for all of your responses. We understand everyone's desires around this issue, and although it's not going to be an overnight fix, as mentioned we're working on addressing this. Many of the suggestions you have made are similar to potential changes the development team is investigating.

 

I rounded up the development team once more and had another discussion, and wanted to update you with a better timeline and some more precise details on what we're doing right now.

 

The first major changes will be in our next major Game Update, which will have the version number of 1.2. Those changes will bring greater visual fidelity to your character and those around you, but will still allow for good performance in situations where a lot of characters are on-screen at once. In other words, for those screenshots of your character in their best gear, you should see a marked improvement.

 

Other potential changes are being discussed right now – as I said, many of which are similar to changes suggested by many of you. As usual, you’ll see these sorts of changes on our Public Test Server before they make it into the live game. Right now we cannot commit to a live date for the 1.2 Game Update, but it will be within Q1 2012.

 

Ok this is a bit better than the other post, not much but a bit.

 

So if this is true (and not another PR bs promise just so we shut up and forget this issue) then in 1 or 2 months we should see " greater visual fidelity to your character and those around you ", this has better mean high rez textures and not just a "bit improved" low rez textures.

[Kashaan]

Mine wasn't crashing.

 

 

No ****... it was beta with nowhere near the population of retail.

[Ashes_Arizona]

They didn't assume. They have metrics. It's better that you're able to play than to crash every time you go to Fleet. If they hadn't removed the option, you'd be on the forums screaming that you crash every time you go to Fleet.

 

 

A simple bandaid they could do right now is simply add the ability to use High res textures for your character and party members. A slightly more involved fix would be to let people use high-res textures for a limited number of models near your character. I'm really surprised that someone at BW hasn't thought of this as a temporary fix while they do what they're doing for 1.2.

 

Heres a thought.

 

Maybe if the Fleet had stayed "The Fleet" like it was in Beta, and Dromund Kaas, Coruscant and Nar Shaddaa were used as the "social hubs" as they were planned for, rather than the two central fleets, you'd have the following:

 

1) More distribution of the server population as the shared GTN on Nar Shaddaa would see higher levels of traffic than the faction exclusive GTN's on DK/Coruscant.

 

2) Less need for graphics clamping to get "good performance" because theres no other area in the game other than the "Fleet" which gets as congested as it does and thats only on high population servers.

 

They wouldn't have to do anything for 1.2 in this regard had they not made bone headed decisions to basically gut the intended "social hubs" of the game for the "new" Fleet they added in August of 2011 which basically neutered all other social hubs and turned them into mega quest hubs only.

 

Everyone says the game feels like a single player game, and the Fleet is why. People just sit up at the Fleet and queue for PvP or instant access Flashpoints with their friends, they don't actually have to GO anywhere else for anything other than single player content.

 

"The Fleet" has compromised a lot of the features of this game, graphics being only one of the most obvious ones.

[Fellthar]

The act of using those textures in gameplay demonstrations to sell the game, then removing them and not having them fixed before launch is false advertising. False advertising is the act of being deceptive about your product.

 

I don't think they intended to do it that way. Again, that seems a bit conspiracy theory to me. They probably made the videos when the game was using those textures, and then did not have the time or resources to go back and change them (because launch happened and things went haywire for them), or otherwise because they forgot.

 

Aside from this, they have stated they want to fix this, and will do so in 1.2. It seems to me they are trying to get on top of this issue. I have no doubt that only a month into the release of the game, they are extremely busy.

[Zezel]

You said you have a Gateway 7805u?

 

And no, I'm not American

 

I do which is my 5th computer which I use during my frequent travels due to work which is what I had during the last 3 beta's and during release.

[United_Strafes]

I'm in the exact same frame of mind. I'm hoping they'll look at the number of people who cancelled their recurring sub today (I too cancelled my upcoming 6 month sub) and realize that this is a bigger issue than they thought and should be bumped up in priority.

 

I have 3 months total up front. There's NO WAY I'll sub past that if textures aren't fixed, and I'm not talking April I'm talking more like end of this month.

[BobTheTeepo]

Beta was not a small number of people PER SERVER. Darth Malak was consistently full, with guess what, HIGH REZ textures.

 

Only during the last beta weekend were they removed, there were multiple threads in the beta forums on topic. People were ASSURED that they would be back for release. I really really which I had screen capped that post now.

 

Also When you say Q1, Q2, etc, you're always speaking in the fiscal sense. So Q1 2012 is March at the Earliest.

 

You noticed how now more people seem to be in one instance at a time? There used more instances of a world, notice there are no longer instances to switch through (or did they just change how you do it?)?

 

Furthermore, that is simply false. People refer to the first three months as Q1 informally all the time, while I don't know if this was the case here, it is possible. Also, we're in the 2nd quarter of the fiscal year at this very moment. Q2 starts in January, Q1 starts in October of the previous year.

[Your_dominus]

Making the game run on lower end systems is fine, but you need to add higher settings for those who choose to use them.

 

This gosh darn it, this.

 

The QQing cheap skates on toasters have resulted in what you see now.

And I don't understand why.

 

They baselined it to be playable on junk. Hey, awsome. But they left players on real gaming machines flabbergasted at how dated and...well, bad it is.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Your_dominus

[Ashes_Arizona]

No ****... it was beta with nowhere near the population of retail.

 

Beta also didn't have the central Fleet Hub til the last few builds.

 

Carrick and Vaiken were much smaller transitional zones previous to the August or September build...can't remember exactly which it was.

 

Simple facts are the game previous to the change of the fleet was never designed for small compact areas like "The Fleet" to have 300+ people in them, it was designed to flow people towards factional social hubs or interfactional social hubs, all of which were removed in favor of the new "Fleet" which has caused more problems than its solved.

[Fellthar]

I really do hope 1.2 sorts this out, High resolution (cut-scene equivalent) for the nearest 10-15 people for example and I'll be right back to this game.

 

As it stands now however, whilst I find the game fun to play the graphics just hit me hard. A lot of enjoyment I get from MMOs is the stat and visual progression of my character, as well as being able to appreciate the world we play in. Sadly, in swtor, the textures of armour seem to get worse and worse as you progess through to higher level

 

I trust they will sort it out, or at least improve the situation, and if that is not adequate, they seem to have a track record of listening to users and at least trying.

 

It doesn't bother me much because on my 40 inch t.v. and with my character zoomed out to play, I can't even tell the difference unless I zoom in or look closely. And the time when I am looking close enough, ie the cut scenes, the graphics are hi res anyway.

 

I can appreciate that others are more sensitive to hi resolution graphics than me.

[United_Strafes]

I don't think they intended to do it that way. Again, that seems a bit conspiracy theory to me. They probably made the videos when the game was using those textures, and then did not have the time or resources to go back and change them (because launch happened and things went haywire for them), or otherwise because they forgot.

 

Aside from this, they have stated they want to fix this, and will do so in 1.2. It seems to me they are trying to get on top of this issue. I have no doubt that only a month into the release of the game, they are extremely busy.

 

Where does it say ANYWHERE in his statement that it'll be fixed in 1.2 or EVER? Did you even READ the statement?

[Fellthar]

Yep, both the hardest part of the job and the most important in many cases. So here, even if the issue isn't technical, there is clearly a communication problem.

 

Agreed, and communcation is notoriously difficult for most techy type people. Not all, but many.

[Harower]

Cinematic cannot be used as a noun. Also, a cutscene in game does qualify as a cinematic moment (Look up cinematic definition please). So you should stop playing semantics, thinking you're oh so clever, and address the issues -- not the wording.

 

Even IF he got it wrong, these scenes have been referred to as cinematics by everyone since Mass Effect, because they have the quality of a film. It may be informal, it may even be incorrect, but it is an accepted use of the word even if it is not technically correct. So again, play semantics and think you're clever, or be act like an adult.

 

I am not clever, only due to contrast when conversing with you.

 

Let me enlighten you.

 

This is a cinimatic cutscene

 

However this is just a cutscene

 

Some will argue this a cinematic cutscene from swtor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KpPQ7YtrC4

 

 

 

But you miss the point in the argument entirely. The difference is a proper cinematic will play a video file rather then render it in realtime. Which is what swtor does. Which is why everyone can see the potential they are restricted from.

[Fellthar]

Where does it say ANYWHERE in his statement that it'll be fixed in 1.2 or EVER? Did you even READ the statement?

 

"The first major changes will be in our next major Game Update, which will have the version number of 1.2. Those changes will bring greater visual fidelity to your character and those around you, but will still allow for good performance in situations where a lot of characters are on-screen at once. In other words, for those screenshots of your character in their best gear, you should see a marked improvement."

[FRISKI]

Canceled sub, Openned a new tab, typed in "guildwars2.com".

I suggest you do the same.

[nonforma]

Agreed, and communcation is notoriously difficult for most techy type people. Not all, but many.

 

And the few get the upper management jobs!

 

I think we would really benefit from a more in-depth statement from an actual developer.

Edited January 12, 2012 by nonforma

[Undahill]

Actually, I work for a simulation development company, and part time for a company that develops high end mathematics software.

 

And if you don't have an SSD, I wasn't speaking for you.

 

It is extremely simple, atlassing was not in the game during beta, it was added. Unless SR just blasted a bunch of lies out his rear, the specific reason for doing this was that SPINDLE drives had trouble loading all the textures during normal gameplay. If it was bringing SSD's to their knees (keep in mind, spindles have about 500 iops, SSD's have about 50,000) then the game is literally more HD intensive than a database being accessed by thousands of people simultaneously, which would be the single worst coding ever.

 

So, for me, and others who purchased SSD's specifically to allow for high speed loading of textures from the HD, something like atlassing is a completely worthless feature. And we should be able to disable it if we want.

 

If the atlassing was so poorly implemented so that it cannot simply be turned off at whim, then the whole feature needs to be removed, and fixed, before it is put back in.

 

Adding a checkbox for disable should only take a week, removing a broken feature should only take a week. It's really just a matter of "ok, we put a checkbox in" "now we test" "oh, it works" "done". If the feature is broken, then it's "remove code" "test" "it works" "done".

 

The only possible reason in existence that it couldn't be done in a week, is because the developers did not document anything they did, so nobody really knows what parts of the code do this (which would be beyond ludicrous, and extremely bad for bioware in the long run.)

 

Sounds legit to me. Nice read.

[GTownsend]

Utterly unacceptable for a triple A title in 2012.

[CriDaDimon]

Actually, I work for a simulation development company, and part time for a company that develops high end mathematics software.

 

And if you don't have an SSD, I wasn't speaking for you.

 

It is extremely simple, atlassing was not in the game during beta, it was added. Unless SR just blasted a bunch of lies out his rear, the specific reason for doing this was that SPINDLE drives had trouble loading all the textures during normal gameplay. If it was bringing SSD's to their knees (keep in mind, spindles have about 500 iops, SSD's have about 50,000) then the game is literally more HD intensive than a database being accessed by thousands of people simultaneously, which would be the single worst coding ever.

 

So, for me, and others who purchased SSD's specifically to allow for high speed loading of textures from the HD, something like atlassing is a completely worthless feature. And we should be able to disable it if we want.

 

If the atlassing was so poorly implemented so that it cannot simply be turned off at whim, then the whole feature needs to be removed, and fixed, before it is put back in.

 

Adding a checkbox for disable should only take a week, removing a broken feature should only take a week. It's really just a matter of "ok, we put a checkbox in" "now we test" "oh, it works" "done". If the feature is broken, then it's "remove code" "test" "it works" "done".

 

The only possible reason in existence that it couldn't be done in a week, is because the developers did not document anything they did, so nobody really knows what parts of the code do this (which would be beyond ludicrous, and extremely bad for bioware in the long run.)

 

I agree, an easy fix would be to have the ability to turn atlasing off

[CriDaDimon]

Utterly unacceptable for a triple A title in 2012.

 

agreed

[Kashaan]

Heres a thought.

 

Maybe if the Fleet had stayed "The Fleet" like it was in Beta, and Dromund Kaas, Coruscant and Nar Shaddaa were used as the "social hubs" as they were planned for, rather than the two central fleets, you'd have the following:

 

1) More distribution of the server population as the shared GTN on Nar Shaddaa would see higher levels of traffic than the faction exclusive GTN's on DK/Coruscant.

 

2) Less need for graphics clamping to get "good performance" because theres no other area in the game other than the "Fleet" which gets as congested as it does and thats only on high population servers.

 

They wouldn't have to do anything for 1.2 in this regard had they not made bone headed decisions to basically gut the intended "social hubs" of the game for the "new" Fleet they added in August of 2011 which basically neutered all other social hubs and turned them into mega quest hubs only.

 

Everyone says the game feels like a single player game, and the Fleet is why. People just sit up at the Fleet and queue for PvP or instant access Flashpoints with their friends, they don't actually have to GO anywhere else for anything other than single player content.

 

"The Fleet" has compromised a lot of the features of this game, graphics being only one of the most obvious ones.

 

 

You have a good point... but it seems that a central location people could easily access content from was what players wanted. I mean... look at all the QQ for LFD queues and everything else, even with the Fleet as is. Look at WoW, where people just sit in town all day in queue.

 

I'm not saying your idea is bad, but I think it's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. I don't think moving things back to the main planets would change anything.

 

 

The best and fastest solution at this point is to add a way to use High-res textures, but in a limited fashion. Either limit it to your character and party members, or to the first 20 or so people to be "draw called". That will at least placate a lot of players until they make the fix they want in 1.2. Hell, then the 1.2 fix might not even be necessary.