Grammarye Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1435443#edit1435443 Right there at the bottom. If you want to keep your combat log private, that's fine. I want the option to make mine public. I have nothing to hide. I want people to trust me, and combat logs give them the data to do so. It's fine to feel a little put upon or even threatened by the criticism of others. People can be harsh. You paid your money, and you don't care to deal with criticism, that's fine. But I'm the one paying MY money, and I insist on having hard data on what's going on in my group. I actively seek feedback from my teammates. If you're not interested in this kind of activity, we don't ever have to group, play, or even speak together. I'm fine with that. Your logical leaps defy all explanation. How is an optional combat log equating to a private one? Optional can also mean 'I can turn it on or off'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Why did *you* post? Because it's beyond my rational logical thinking to understand, why anyone would feel it necessary to come to a public forum and inform me what they insist on to group with people. Should we all post what we insist on? Maybe we should request a new "This is what I expect of you" forum so everyone can post their requirements to be met by all applying group members? It reeks of going backwards to gearscore in WoW. And we all know what credibility that had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The issue is almost every boss in HM and NM have dps enrage timers. So currently players have NO way to gauge our dps however the game design forces us to know Bad design is pushing alot of this. This is entirely untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurugeorge Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The guy is asking for a combat log and people are telling him to play another game? What's next? If people demend for a carpool lane on the freeway to increase the flow of traffic, are you going to lynch them? There is some exaggeration here, but to an extent it's understandable. Look, there are tons of competitive online games out there in which min-maxing and performance and competitiveness are well-catered for. But there are far less online games out there, especially MMOs, that cater to roleplayers (I don't mean necessarily "rp", but just RPG-ing). My feeling, and I think the feeling of many of those who are against some of the tools that might benefit competitive players (e.g. meters, LFD, which helps rushers-to-50, etc.) is - stop trying to change this game into yet another boring competitive MMO in which the roleplay and story are vestigial. Let there be a roleplaying-based MMO for a change. BW have decided they can make decent money out of such a thing. Well, let's see (incidentally, this would be facilitated by your leaving the game if you don't like it - to pay for an experiment you have no interest in doesn't make much sense, does it?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devorin_Sargothi Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Your logical leaps defy all explanation. How is an optional combat log equating to a private one? Optional can also mean 'I can turn it on or off'. It means you toggle whether or not you show up in other people's combat logs. Keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurugeorge Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 So it really is "Hurr derr voice acting" after all, huh? A year and a half of voice acting! That's their plan, is doling out little bits of voice acting? Why the hell does that cost $15 a month?! Obviously that's not what costs $15 a month. What costs $15 a month is the maintenance of the game and creation of new content, single-player, multiplayer, storyline, new Operations, etc., etc. - the voice acting's already paid for (obviously they have the story already planned out well in advance). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 It means you toggle whether or not you show up in other people's combat logs. Keep up. And half way through mission 2 people turn it off.. End of group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excedrin Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Sorry, but where in that post does it say it will be "private" as if it's no business to the rest of the group how you're doing? It says they're really working to get some combat metrics in place just as they SAID they've been trying to do. There will be combat logs and them mentioning it again makes me happy to know that it will probably come soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Sorry, but where in that post does it say it will be "private" as if it's no business to the rest of the group how you're doing? It says they're really working to get some combat metrics in place just as they SAID they've been trying to do. There will be combat logs and them mentioning it again makes me happy to know that it will probably come soon. From what I read it was the your at the end. The italicized your kinda hints private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 So what do you do? Either you can cling to your privacy, and keep looking or just give up. Or you can give in to the unceasing tide of demanding people who'll castigate you if you fail to meet the arbitrary standard that they read about on the internet. That's not a 'good situation'. The only alternative is to form a group of friends and group soley with them - in which case, you're relying on them to be around when you are, and you're limiting your social circle in a game that's supposedly 'massively multiplayer'. Overall, not so good. Or you can just learn how to play your class so you don't have to hide your numbers out of shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swtorsmc Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This is entirely untrue. Really? Please give a boss name in which dps in HM and NM is NOT a factor? I have yet to see one and I have cleared everything but HM SOA / Kragga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenmuir Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This made me laugh so hard. I wonder why people claim the game is not an MMO and lack social interactions. (SPOILER: It's the people not the game) Also are we talking about flashpoints or raids? There are 4 of you in a flashppoint. 1 is tank, 1 is healer and 2 are dps. If you need a parser to tell you that Leetkilla didn't interrupt when you told him it is his job to interrupt... I think you got bigger issues. Then why does it matter if it's displayed in a combat log, animation on the screen, sound, or a warm feeling I get in my tummy? If you can see that someone missed the interrupt in an animation, why does it matter that I want to see it in words? Why should you have an advantage in content because of the way the game is designed? If I have a hard time looking at animations because of my poor eye sight, why should I not be allowed to analyze what happen with text? Tis the same information, no? My view is players got spoiled with WoW on many things. Granted a lot of things from WoW are good but there has been a lot of bad habits forming over there that really do not need to make their way over here. Personally I love playing a caster in games. I still however find myself playing a Tank in every single MMO I've played including this one. I play with pugs a lot because it's how I gain new friends. I can tell who knows what they're doing and who don't easily. Doesn't take crunching numbers or anything like that. Again, if you can do it without using numbers, why does it matter that someone else wants to? Why is your way of enjoying the game superior, or why is someone else's way unacceptable? There's always a-holes in games. You can't avoid them, however from my WoW experience they tend to be more noticeable because they're waving around recount as some kind of sword of truth to justify their point of view. So? There's this tip in the loading screen you might want to read: "Is someone bothering you? Type /ignore to stop seeing what they type." (something along those lines) Would it be better if they use something else to justify their point of view?(Hint: whatever it is, the evil-meanie will still think it's a good reason.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabjat Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If you want this feature for only your level 50 character, then I am in total agreement with you as there is no need for this feature for anyone under that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterKayote Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 We will also probably get FULL combat logs. It will happen. It has to or there won't be any raiding. Is there no raiding now without the meters? Youre saying Eternity Vault doesnt really exist? Or that people havent been running it quite successfully, without parsers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swtorsmc Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Is there no raiding now without the meters? Youre saying Eternity Vault doesnt really exist? Or that people havent been running it quite successfully, without parsers? AS I have mentioned, every boss while raiding has some sort of DPS enrage timer. The enrage really shows up on HM and NM modes, so you can know the fight and understand it however without some sort of dps gauge you can wipe over and over to the 200 percent enrage damage. If BW did not want the push for dps meters, they should of designed their endgame around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putok Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Guys. BW isn't ridiculous enough to give us just private combat logs. What the BW guy is saying is we will get in-game personal meters made by BW that everyone will have by default. In a way, they will be forcing everyone to get used to damage meters and be aware of their performance. We will also probably get FULL combat logs. It will happen. It has to or there won't be any raiding. That's what I got out of this. I assumed they meant that they're planning on implementing an integrated tool to track your performance with a nice GUI. I can't imagine they wouldn't implement a fully functional combat log for those that want/need all the information. Being able to parse a combat log is a good tool for difficult content. I was a rogue class lead in WoW for many years, and very detailed parsers like WoL and such were awesome tools to help people learn. You could very specifically see where they were taking too much damage, and find a solution. It lets you notice little things, like, "Hey, you only used feint 3 times in that fight. I used it 9, and took far less damage from that AOE. You can probably help reduce the strain on the healers if you try to work it in more." If someone's damage is lagging a little bit, a knowledgable player can go over a parse with them to see what they might be doing wrong. If a rogue in comparable gear was consistently 15% behind me on a given fight, I could go over the parses with them to find areas where they were lagging a bit behind. Maybe they weren't stacking CDs quite as well, that's show up. Maybe they needed to perfect their rotation to improve rupture uptime. Maybe their time on target was just low. The same is true of healers. If one healer is having resource issues, they can go over a parse with a knowledgable player to help figure out the issue, be it CD usage, spell selection, excessive overhealing, or another factor. Combat logs provide extremely valuable information to help a group advance, and it should definitely be possible for all that information to be available in one place, without having to combine 8-16 different parses just to get the complete picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Or you can just learn how to play your class so you don't have to hide your numbers out of shame. "learn to play your class" really means go to the internets to find out what the best spec is for your class, then find out where to put the points,, then find out the best rotation and what keys to bind them to. When you've done that join PuG, PuR and press the keys you were told to, one after the other, till the boss falls dead. Now you're a hero and can play your class. *yawn* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excedrin Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 From what I read it was the your at the end. The italicized your kinda hints private. I didn't pick up on that. It doesn't make much sense really. Are they really going to bend over backwards for people who believe how poorly they're doing is no business of their group, rather than telling them to find more likeminded players to play with? I mean, I'm not going to jump to any conclusions at this point but I see what you're saying. I'm just disappointed that there's a segment of the population that thinks people aren't already calling them bad and avoiding grouping with them. People may not want to play with you, the best remedy is to get over it and find someone who will play with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putok Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 AS I have mentioned, every boss while raiding has some sort of DPS enrage timer. The enrage really shows up on HM and NM modes, so you can know the fight and understand it however without some sort of dps gauge you can wipe over and over to the 200 percent enrage damage. If BW did not want the push for dps meters, they should of designed their endgame around it. If there are challenging enrage timers, then the ability to analyze the output of the group as a whole is indubitably necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excedrin Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) "learn to play your class" really means go to the internets to find out what the best spec is for your class, then find out where to put the points,, then find out the best rotation and what keys to bind them to. When you've done that join PuG, PuR and press the keys you were told to, one after the other, till the boss falls dead. Now you're a hero and can play your class. *yawn* You don't even have to do that really, in most cases it's "understand what your abilities to do and have a clue" and you're pretty much already avoid the cut off. If someone isn't capable of this very basic level of thinking then I doubt they'll be able to do anything else well. Edited January 11, 2012 by Excedrin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) "learn to play your class" really means go to the internets to find out what the best spec is for your class, then find out where to put the points,, then find out the best rotation and what keys to bind them to. When you've done that join PuG, PuR and press the keys you were told to, one after the other, till the boss falls dead. Now you're a hero and can play your class. *yawn* None of what you wrote excuses you for doing poor DPS because you don't understand your class. This isn't kindergarten where everyone gets a blue ribbon for effort. Edited January 11, 2012 by Caelrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Really? Please give a boss name in which dps in HM and NM is NOT a factor? I have yet to see one and I have cleared everything but HM SOA / Kragga The untrue bit was that you need dps meters to beat them. You don't need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swtorsmc Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If there are challenging enrage timers, then the ability to analyze the output of the group as a whole is indubitably necessary. Spend a few minutes in Hutta Hospitality on HM or NM with a group who does NOT care about dps, and let me know how that goes! The endgame even the heroic flash points all have enrage timers of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devorin_Sargothi Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 This made me laugh so hard. I wonder why people claim the game is not an MMO and lack social interactions. (SPOILER: It's the people not the game) Also are we talking about flashpoints or raids? There are 4 of you in a flashppoint. 1 is tank, 1 is healer and 2 are dps. If you need a parser to tell you that Leetkilla didn't interrupt when you told him it is his job to interrupt... I think you got bigger issues. My view is players got spoiled with WoW on many things. Granted a lot of things from WoW are good but there has been a lot of bad habits forming over there that really do not need to make their way over here. Personally I love playing a caster in games. I still however find myself playing a Tank in every single MMO I've played including this one. I play with pugs a lot because it's how I gain new friends. I can tell who knows what they're doing and who don't easily. Doesn't take crunching numbers or anything like that. And as for this comment It happens. To some more than others. I have experienced it not a lot but a couple of times and the funny thing was I was begged to return to the raid group because the observant ones. I told them no thank you. There's always a-holes in games. You can't avoid them, however from my WoW experience they tend to be more noticeable because they're waving around recount as some kind of sword of truth to justify their point of view. It's a simple proposition; the ability to toggle whether or not other people can see your actions in their combat log. There are legitimate and important reasons to see this information, despite what many have said. If we have the tools, we can use them to play better and improve our knowledge base. Fears about privacy and the like don't change this fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The issue is almost every boss in HM and NM have dps enrage timers. So currently players have NO way to gauge our dps however the game design forces us to know Bad design is pushing alot of this. You don't know what to do when you are not beating an enrage timer without a dps meter? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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