Slickerpunk Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoM0CV9BRPs&feature=youtu.be The above is a short video I made showcasing the BURST potential for a level 50 Operative with 10% expertise. Though I do not have a precise timer, an Assassin and Powertech can kill me in roughly the same amount of time (give or a take 2-3 seconds) that I can kill them, save the fact that they are incapped while I am doing all my damage (knockdown). With all the ways to mitigate damage in this game (Guard, AoE Knockbacks, CC), it very well may be that things are working as intended. Enjoy! Don't flame me too harshly! Edited January 11, 2012 by Slickerpunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herethos Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Thats nothing I've had juggernauts jump stun me then start taking down my hp with each hit around 3k dmg, I don't know what skill they are using but it looks like a slow overhead attack kinda, which looks kinda basic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slickerpunk Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Thats nothing I've had juggernauts jump stun me then start taking down my hp with each hit around 3k dmg, I don't know what skill they are using but it looks like a slow overhead attack kinda, which looks kinda basic. That's the first I've heard of juggernaught burst but hey I'll belive it when I see it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalibah Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Operatives lol, yesterday i saw a Scoundrel killing 3 lvl 50 in t2/t1 pvp armor in under 6 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMossy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 While I have no issue with your attacks doing high burst damage the issue I do have as a Tankasin is that my "TANK" defense means absolutely sod all vs your attacks, defense, shield rating and absorb only work vs weapon damage and all your attacks are classed as tech. Oversight on BW's behalf maybe? Essentially it makes defensive stats in PVP utterly pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamchuck Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoM0CV9BRPs&feature=youtu.be The above is a short video I made showcasing the BURST potential for a level 50 Operative with 10% expertise. Unless the ability to burst someone down in 3-5 GCD's is intended (and it very well could be [Guard/ Millions of Knock backs / CC]), the Operative may need some tweaking. Enjoy! Don't flame me too harshly! You may be interested in the damage mitigation discussion here and here. I'm not too familiar with assassins so I can't tell what spec he is but there's an issue with shield and defense not mitigating kinetic damage and I think it's a huge contributor to the high burst that operatives/scoundrels put up on a lot of classes. This issue, as well as the Biochem issue, needs to be straightened out before any of the classes are tweaked (barring obvious ability bugs, of course). As far as burst goes, though, your PT friend took you down in 8 seconds where it took you 10 to get him. Maybe it was a fluke, maybe not; you only had one round in the video. Still, nerf Pyro. Edit: FYI. I play a conceal op as well (not that good at it so no, I'm not making vids) but I understand that we are pretty high on the meltface category. I'm willing to take nerfs, if needed, but I'm not committing to that until the issues above are addressed first. Edited January 11, 2012 by Hamchuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slickerpunk Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) You may be interested in the damage mitigation discussion here and here. I'm not too familiar with assassins so I can't tell what spec he is but there's an issue with shield and defense not mitigating kinetic damage and I think it's a huge contributor to the high burst that operatives/scoundrels put up on a lot of classes. This issue, as well as the Biochem issue, needs to be straightened out before any of the classes are tweaked (barring obvious ability bugs, of course). As far as burst goes, though, your PT friend took you down in 8 seconds where it took you 10 to get him. Maybe it was a fluke, maybe not; you only had one round in the video. Still, nerf Pyro. Thanks I will definately take a look at that! Yea the armor of the PT is a pain in the ***. The cirt difference between that *** (who was dps spec btw) and the PT was massive and obviously mitigated (the PT i mean). Edited January 11, 2012 by Slickerpunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YpaWinz Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Operatives lol, yesterday i saw a Scoundrel killing 3 lvl 50 in t2/t1 pvp armor in under 6 seconds. I saw one riding the lochness monster. He crit for abot tree fitty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psmoke Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I saw one riding the lochness monster. He crit for abot tree fitty. was it dressed up as a girl scout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paganini Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 holy ****, we know operatives have burst damage do we really need half the first page telling us this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortcake Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 eventually people will get tired of whining and actually l2p hopefully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slickerpunk Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 eventually people will get tired of whining and actually l2p hopefully I hope so. Against good teams that have level 50s, my effectiveness goes out the window. I open up on someone and they immediately use some sort of defensive cool down and trinket out of my knockdown, then their entire team proceeds to gang **** me. I am actually considering rolling a marauder for team fight-friendly opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeGBF Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Operatives lol, yesterday i saw a Scoundrel killing 3 lvl 50 in t2/t1 pvp armor in under 6 seconds. lol yeah, I was in that warzone, bigfoot was playing patty-cake with dracula on the east point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depth_mil Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 That's the first I've heard of juggernaught burst but hey I'll belive it when I see it! Not paying much attention then - vigilence/vengeance can burst pretty hard (this probably is what the quoted post was talking about), and there's the singularity/shockwave sillyness too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaniWes Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Operative has no shields and 3-4k less health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristine Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 eventually people will get tired of whining and actually l2p hopefully The same "argument" used by any op class in any MMo i have ever played. All other ppl just can not play their class properly, while the fotm class knows how the play. Funny how that chages with every pvp balance patch when suddenly ppl playing another clas are supposed to be more skilled and all the others simply do not know how to play and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sildoor Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Operative has no shields and 3-4k less health. What about dps shadows? everyone forgets about us -.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depth_mil Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 What about dps shadows? everyone forgets about us -.- Not really convinced shields do anything in pvp anyway - either I'm missing the animation or most abilities ignore them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightskyStar Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoM0CV9BRPs&feature=youtu.be The above is a short video I made showcasing the BURST potential for a level 50 Operative with 10% expertise. Though I do not have a precise timer, an Assassin and Powertech can kill me in roughly the same amount of time (give or a take 2-3 seconds) that I can kill them, save the fact that they are incapped while I am doing all my damage (knockdown). With all the ways to mitigate damage in this game (Guard, AoE Knockbacks, CC), it very well may be that things are working as intended. Enjoy! Don't flame me too harshly! I noticed the bar go's white the moment you land your first knockdown on the target. Would using the ability to remove the knockdown, mess up Operative rotations? I believe the 2nd Ability that you use requres the target to be stunned, and the 3rd requires to be behind the target. Am i correct in this assumption? Edited January 11, 2012 by NightskyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slickerpunk Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 I noticed the bar go's white the moment you land your first knockdown on the target. Would using the ability to remove the knockdown, mess up Operative rotations? I believe the 2nd Ability that you use requres the target to be stunned, and the 3rd requires to be behind the target. Am i correct in this assumption? Talented, our Hidden Strike (the one I open with that can only be used out of stealth) has a 100% chance to knock the target down for 3 seconds. This ability also gives the target an immediate resolve bar of 100% (CC immune). To answer your question, it would not mess up our rotation necessarily, but it would give you the ability to pop defensive cooldowns or CC me back to recoup yourself to get into the fight, which can be a big deal if you are good. Our backstab (9 second cooldown? can't remember) requires us to be behind the target (which is why I always use it 2nd, out of stealth). We have no abilities that require the target to be stunned/incapped in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox_McCloud Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 holy ****, we know operatives have burst damage do we really need half the first page telling us this? Its not about whether they have burst damage or not, you are obviously trying to deflect the point of all these threads. No one should be doing as much damage as that, operative or not. PvP is broken until the stim/adrenal/red buff/relic stacking issues are resolved, preferably removed from pvp completely. If you are critting for 5k more then once every 30 seconds and without the any buffs, then the ability you used is in need of fixing because its dealing way too much damage, and it doesn't matter what class its one. Plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covinous Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Its not about whether they have burst damage or not, you are obviously trying to deflect the point of all these threads. No one should be doing as much damage as that, operative or not. PvP is broken until the stim/adrenal/red buff/relic stacking issues are resolved, preferably removed from pvp completely. If you are critting for 5k more then once every 30 seconds and without the any buffs, then the ability you used is in need of fixing because its dealing way too much damage, and it doesn't matter what class its one. Plain and simple. I have over 400 expertise and without stims/buffs, my max crit on Shoot First is 4.5k on people without expertise. Also, without buffs, Backblast crits for 2.5k. The problem here isn't really Operative/Scoundrel burst, it's that with stacked buffs they're getting crazy damage bonuses. I've also been utterly destroyed by Marauders/Assassins that were stacking buffs like the Ops/Scoundrels in the videos being posted. The other night, I jumped a marauder in huttball, took about 1/4th of his life off with Shoot First, he broke the CC and turned around and killed me within 5 seconds. I don't think marauders need to be nerfed because he did that. I think buff stacking needs to be looked at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slickerpunk Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 I have over 400 expertise and without stims/buffs, my max crit on Shoot First is 4.5k on people without expertise. Also, without buffs, Backblast crits for 2.5k. The problem here isn't really Operative/Scoundrel burst, it's that with stacked buffs they're getting crazy damage bonuses. I've also been utterly destroyed by Marauders/Assassins that were stacking buffs like the Ops/Scoundrels in the videos being posted. The other night, I jumped a marauder in huttball, took about 1/4th of his life off with Shoot First, he broke the CC and turned around and killed me within 5 seconds. I don't think marauders need to be nerfed because he did that. I think buff stacking needs to be looked at. I agree 100%. 30% by stacking just the expertise buffs, not to mention biochem cheese and relics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevrik Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Operatives lol, yesterday i saw a Scoundrel killing 3 lvl 50 in t2/t1 pvp armor in under 6 seconds. 6 seconds, 4 global cool downs, suuuuureee... Some people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevrik Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 We have no abilities that require the target to be stunned/incapped in pvp. Eviscerate... http://www.torhead.com/ability/gEhDRlb Headshot... http://www.torhead.com/ability/35DJYgb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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