Very strong Vanguard dps hybrid

[Hirokinae]

guys what stats you max? i am trying now pure crit + surge imho with 56mods is possible to get about 92-94% from surge and around 39% +- crit with raidbuff

anyone tried it yet?

 

I'm currently running for max AIM, and trying to get my crit to around 35% unbuffed and going straight power afterwards. My surge lies around 94%, and i dont plan to go any higher than that. There is a surge hard cap at 99%. I think crit is better up until aroun 40%, and then power takes precedence. At the very least, the power relic is much better than the crit/surge one. I've done some testing, and you crit harder with the power relic than the crit/surge, and even though you lose some crit, the power relic makes your base attacks stronger anyways to make up for it.

 

UPDATE*

 

Did some testing on the

 

Dark Energy Surge relic which i have recently aquired, and i must say it is AMAZING.

 

For those who dont know, there is a relic which drops off karraga's palace, which has the following Attributes

 

+Endurance (65-77)

Equip: Damaging attacks have a 30% chance to deal *168 additional internal damage to the target. This effect can only occur once every 4.5 seconds.

 

After some testing, i've found that this trinket is SIMPLY AMAZING. it is 168 internal damage, which is not affected by armor, and has a chance to CRIT based off your crit chance. It is ALSO affected by your surge when it crits.

 

It does NOT scale with your AIM/Power

 

It procs off EVERYTHING. Dots, ticks, tech, wepaon damage, anything that does damage WILL proc it, and even more notable, EACH SHOT FROM HAMMER SHOT, has a chance to proc it, meaning that every single hammer shot will almost garuntee a proc.

 

AKA, the affect WILL happen every 4.5 seconds, meaning it is a straight, hard, dps increase. There are teir 1, 2, and 3 versions, with my Dark Energy Surge being the highest teir. If you come accross it, dont pass it up.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Hirokinae

[mykaelmjr]

The spec has been great so far but I'm starting to feel like I'm in a valley right now. I'm 35 and maybe it's a gear issue but my kill speed has gone down. Should I look at something else while I level or should I keep at this spec? Have you found any other spec's that rival yours in terms of top dps?

[Hirokinae]

The spec has been great so far but I'm starting to feel like I'm in a valley right now. I'm 35 and maybe it's a gear issue but my kill speed has gone down. Should I look at something else while I level or should I keep at this spec? Have you found any other spec's that rival yours in terms of top dps?

 

I'd like to point out that this spec works mostly for level 50's, and below that theres not much difference between this and the pure assault spec because you simply do not have the points to make the difference.

 

For leveling, I would recommend a shield spec. The nice thing about vanguards, is that our tank spec still deals very respectable damage, but also makes you twice as tough as a dps. For quick killing, this spec is not recommended, because a lot of its damage relies on procs, and dots which take time to get rolling.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMGrdorogzZMsMZb.1 Something like this should be nice for leveling. Lots of upfront instant damage, decent survivability.

[Thalric]

Very interesting guide.

 

I am playing a Vanguard at the moment and i will try this out

[Waagabond]

Overall it looks ok but not having assault plastique Im not sure I agree on, as vanguard dps, especially for pve. And for PVP its amazing.

But even then, you definately should take out the points for 6% more damage on ion pulse and gut, and place them into burnout.

 

3/3 Burnout is amazing for PVE and underated for PVP.

How often are people low, being healed or nearly getting away?

Incent hits for redicilous numbers.

 

But above all: Since your using your relic, you should check if it affected by burnout.

If it is, then burnout is a musthave for you.

 

For pvp: There is no way you should give up assault plastique. For PVE, sure this spec is interesting. But for PVP the controlled burst with timing that you can have, is insane.

 

for PVE HIB, Ion Pulse spamming, I think this spec looks solid but for boss fights I think burnout is going to add alot more.

[Zunayson]

Is the vanguard's Sheild Spec's 31 pnt talent any good? Or will you get enough DPS to full your GCDS off proccing your CD Stockstrike?

 

I was thinking about going into sheild as far as to get storm and then dipping into the others to get the spammable 11 pnt ability, but if Energy Blast is any good, I may just continue that. I'm in love with harpoon, so I'll have to get tactical tools and maybe the Cryo Grenade CD lower.

[henla]

take a look at this powertech/vanguard dps thread on sithwarrior.com

 

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Powertech-Vanguard-DPS-Compendium?page=12

 

caveats: I've skimmed through it, and I've not dl'd the spreadsheet,

 

but it appears to argue that using TD (thermal detonator=assault plastique) is higher dps than a hybrid build very similar in nature to the one recommended here..

 

just wondered what ur thoughts are on the thread.. does it shed any insight..

Edited February 2, 2012 by henla

[Gathersquall]

Without reading through any threads, I made a very similar build while brainstorming around similar aims in mind.

 

I eventually decided on another version with a more guarding aspect in mind.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GRGb00bZZbIbbdGbM.1

 

What do you think?

 

(I have only read the OP at this stage)

[Hirokinae]

Without reading through any threads, I made a very similar build while brainstorming around similar aims in mind.

 

I eventually decided on another version with a more guarding aspect in mind.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GRGb00bZZbIbbdGbM.1

 

What do you think?

 

(I have only read the OP at this stage)

 

This spec is a little awkward. The main problem with this spec, is that it requires you to kinda be in both ion pulse and plasma to have full effect, otherwise you're sacrificing too much in the way of actual dps talents to pick up 30% increased stockstrike crit. plus you lose out on the nicest part of the talent, refreshing your stockstrike. Since you will most definitely only be in plasma for pve bosses, it kind of puts some of the points you put into shield a waste. =/

 

PLEASE keep in mind that I am designing a spec purely with PVE RAIDING in mind. I have no intentions on pvp since this spec is balls vs an AP burst spec for pvp. Although to be honest with skill, anyone can make most specs work. (currently highest valor ranked vanguard on the server that i know of using this spec which is at best, mediocre in pvp.) ^_-.

 

 

On a side note. I'd like to thank everyone for their constructive critiques. I am by no means absolutely right, and everyone has valid points when it comes to assault plastique. I am still in the process of finding a method, and time to test the actual values for spamming ion pulse + HIB vs having AP, and will try to get it up as soon as i have time.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Hirokinae

[Hirokinae]

Just a couple of updates with some AMAZING results after some testing, and number crunching.

 

Ok, so essentially I set out to compare a 4/6/31 spec, like this one,

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801bMZMsZfIobzGhrs.1

 

vs an 8/8/25 like this

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMhZMsMZfIobzGhM.1

 

The results i've found are very interesting indeed. First thing's first, I set out to find whether high impact bolt or Assault plastique hits harder. Testing on a player, I first had then strip down to 20% armor mitigation, then 30%.

 

AT ALL THREE LEVELS, assault plastique did less than HIB, while at 30% armor mitgation, there was abo****ely no comparison. Here are the results

 

30% armor mitigation

 

HIB average damage: 1703

HIB average crit dmg: 3604

 

AP average damage: 1425

AP average crit dmg: 3099

 

20% armor mitigation

 

HIB average damage: 1783

HIB average crit dmg: 3714

 

AP average damage: 1556

AP average crit dmg: 3267

 

10% armor mitigation

 

HIB average damage: 1810

HIB average crit dmg: 3801

 

AP average damage: 1687

AP average crit dmg: 3489

 

High impact bolt is the obvious winner, and provided me with some insight as to whether or not assault plastique has value during an operation Boss encounter.

 

With this knowledge in mind, I set out to try to map out whether or not assault plastique is truly worth it.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Hirokinae

[Hirokinae]

Alright, so after racking my brains, I came up with a method of ROUGHLY calculating the damage output of having assault plastique vs. a pure ion pulse/stockstrike/HIB rotation.

 

I came up with what I thought to be the best method without the use of a combat log. I wanted to find the raw damage output of one spec versus another, so I basically decided to calculate results by ignoring ammo consumption. Essentially, I just wanted to find the raw damage output of abilities, if you were not forced to hammer shot to conserve ammo.

 

 

With the two specs, I mapped out a timeline of 150 seconds, or 100 GCDS. Both specs essentially use the same rotation, so I obeyed the following rules for both specs.

 

Priority list, in descending order:

1) Incendiary Round is refreshed every 15 seconds

2) HIB is used as a priority below only IR

3) Assault Plastique is used every time its available

4) Stockstrike is used if IR/AP is not availible

5) Ion pulse is used if all others are on cooldown

 

With high impact bolt, I assumed 1 would be used right off the start, and in order to calculate the refresh rate, I assumed that 45% of all stockstrikes would give a chance for 1 HIB, while 30% of ion pulse would give a chance for 1 HIB.

 

For example: If i were to use up 13 GCDs and 9 of them were stockstrikes, then at a 45% refresh chance, on average 4 of those will be HIB's.

 

So with this in mind, I set out to calculate a rough breakdown of how many times you would use each ability

 

The results ---

8/8/25:

Incendiary Round --11

Assault Plastique --13

Stockstrike ---------11

Ion Pulse -----------54

High Impact Bolt --24

 

4/6/31:

Incendiary Round --11

Assault Plastique --13

Stockstrike ---------11

Ion Pulse -----------46

High Impact Bolt --19

 

After this, I calculated rough damage values for each spec using my own character, who's in mostly rakata combat tech, and using the tooltips which are fairly accurate for gauging damage.

 

For Example:

spec 1 HIB damage = 1678.5

spec 2 HIB damage = 1739

 

On top of that I gave an armor value of 20%, in order to reflect the armor on an operation boss (currently unknown, this is only a hypothetical value)

 

This means that Abilities such as IR and ion pulse which are not affected by armor do not change, while Assault plastique and stockstrike both have their damage reduced by 20% because they deal kinetic damage.

High Impact Bolt only has its damage reduced by 2% since it is 90% armor piercing.

 

My ultimate results were as follows:

TOTAL DAMAGE VALUES:

8/8/25:

Incendiary Round --20,460

Assault Plastique -- 0

Stockstrike ---------14,749

Ion Pulse -----------55,265

High Impact Bolt --40,901

TOTAL:

131,375 damage

4/6/31:[/u]

Incendiary Round -- 19,431

Assault Plastique -- 20,181

Stockstrike --------- 14,264

Ion Pulse ----------- 42,159

High Impact Bolt -- 31,253

TOTAL:

127,288 damage

 

The final results of my little investigation show that the hybrid spec barely edges out the assault plastique spec when ammo is not taken into consideration, and assuming a perfect rotation. I believe this is due to the fact that assault plastique is so heavily affected by armor, that as sustained damage, it is simply not as effective as a rotation which allows you to use high impact bolt more. In addition, the greater damage output from all of your other abilities from being being able to pick up other talents makes the 4/6/31 build slightly inferior.

Another very important fact to note, is that the assault plastique spec is much more ammo intensive then the hybrid, because the ammo saved from using more free high impact bolts, vs. spending 2 ammo on Assault plastique is tremendous, especially in the assault's ammo hungry build.

 

The advantage that I would see with the AP build, is that the burst is of course higher than the hybrids, and the fact that it is slightly less RNG dependant.

 

All in all, in terms of PURE DAMAGE, the two are pretty even, and one doesn't completely trump the other.

I suppose it comes down to preference. The two main differences between the specs is that one has much more burst potential and less RNG, while the other is much less ammo intensive, which might lead to higher sustained damage because the ammo saved can go into using main abilities instead of hammershot.

 

Like always, I am just trying to find out which spec is the best, and provide those all of you out there with something tangible to help guide you on your path. In the future, i plan to use a similar method in order to compare this hybrid to a mostly tactics one, and then a full tactics spec, although as you can imagine, that would be slightly more difficult.

 

Please share your thoughts and concerns, and I hope you all find my work of help to you in your min-maxing endeavours. =)

Edited February 9, 2012 by Hirokinae

[va_wanderer]

You've got the usage numbers reversed up there, but otherwise quite interesting.

[Venrale]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMhZMsrrorfoksZb.1

 

If your going for pve HM dps than imho Tactics is far superior, as im sure everyone is aware by now elemental dmg is the premium dmg type and tactics revolves almost 100% around this. By going tactics your using your High Energy Cells which inc Internal and Elemental dmg by 5% add by going up tactics line you get an extra 3% from Blaster Augs and if you spec this way you also get an extra 6% elemental dmg so just in passive dmg buffs all your elemental skills(highest most effective dmging skills) are increased by 14%. With this setup your ammo is constantly regening so ammo is almost never an issue, I will ussually start out with gut,fire pulse(makes stockstrike free) stockstrike, then ion pulse with hammer shot mixed in untill my pulse generator is maxed at 5 then pop Pulse Cannon which with the +50% dmg from pulse generator does a base of 5,362 dmg.

 

So just to go over this a little bit:

ammo regen is higher

high dmg skills cost less ammo than assualt

Ion pulse does 2k-3k dmg(depending on crits) and is spamable

Fire Pulse does 1.5-3k + free stockstrike

Pulse Cannon does 5k-10k dmg and has a reduced cd

you have a 6s interupt(really only useful for FP HMs)

and you still retain the same DoT as assault spec as Gut tics for just as much as incen round when fully specd

 

I have tested your spec, full assault spec and other hybrid specs in HM ops and none of them do nearly as much dmg as Tactics

Edited February 9, 2012 by Venrale

[Hirokinae]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMhZMsrrorfoksZb.1

 

If your going for pve HM dps than imho Tactics is far superior, as im sure everyone is aware by now elemental dmg is the premium dmg type and tactics revolves almost 100% around this. By going tactics your using your High Energy Cells which inc Internal and Elemental dmg by 5% add by going up tactics line you get an extra 3% from Blaster Augs and if you spec this way you also get an extra 6% elemental dmg so just in passive dmg buffs all your elemental skills(highest most effective dmging skills) are increased by 14%. With this setup your ammo is constantly regening so ammo is almost never an issue, I will ussually start out with gut,fire pulse(makes stockstrike free) stockstrike, then ion pulse with hammer shot mixed in untill my pulse generator is maxed at 5 then pop Pulse Cannon which with the +50% dmg from pulse generator does a base of 5,362 dmg.

 

So just to go over this a little bit:

ammo regen is higher

high dmg skills cost less ammo than assualt

Ion pulse does 2k-3k dmg(depending on crits) and is spamable

Fire Pulse does 1.5-3k + free stockstrike

Pulse Cannon does 5k-10k dmg and has a reduced cd

you have a 6s interupt(really only useful for FP HMs)

and you still retain the same DoT as assault spec as Gut tics for just as much as incen round when fully specd

 

I have tested your spec, full assault spec and other hybrid specs in HM ops and none of them do nearly as much dmg as Tactics

 

You do have some valid points my friend, but one thing you have to note, is that much of assault's damage is ALSO unaffected by armor.

high impact bolt is 90% armor piercing, and hits MUCH harder than in tactics and is refreshed more often.

Incendiary round is pure elemental damage

Plasma Cell does a SIGNIFICANT portion of our damage, which is also unaffected by armor

 

 

The tactics vs assault debate is still ongoing, but from what i've read, most of it leans in favor of assault.

 

The pro/cons are mostly as follows:

Gut vs Incendiary Round. Incendiary is more expensive, but is definitely the superior ability as far as damage, especially considering gut's initial damage is kinetic

 

HIB in tactics vs. assault. - High impact bolt is by far the vanguards hardest hitting ability. With tactics, the only advantage HIB gains is 25% chance to garuntee a crit. Whereas in Assault, HIB is used over 2-3 times more, does 9% more base damage, has 30% more armor-piercing value, crits 30% harder, and restores 1 energy instead of spending 2, making it 3 ammo cheaper.

 

Fire pulse: Its a great ability, but the damage really isn't all that amazing. Usually in the 15 second window, you can use 1 fire pulse, and 1 HIB. In tactics, in the same 15 second window, you can usually get in at least 2 HIB's. With its armor piercing value, 2x HIB would definitely do more damage than a fire pulse and a HIB. Its a great ability, but not enough to warrent an advantage.

 

High Energy Cell vs. Plasma Cell. High energy cell is definitely easier on the ammo than plasma cell, but there is no doubt that plasma cell equates to more damage. in my current level of gear, it does 1,200 damage over 6 seconds. With HIB refreshing it, ion pulse putting it on 100% of the time, and a 12% chance to proc off ANY damage, its pretty much got almost 100% uptime on most of my targets, and is a HUGE dps boost over high energy cell, at the cost of not being able to regenerate ammo.

 

That leaves the advantages of tactics, which is that you use stockstrike more often, and ion pulse crits 30% harder. This is certainly good, but given that stockstrike and ion pulse do 9% more base damage in assault, the advantage is kind of further diminished.

 

The problem with tactics, is that ALOT of the points are wasted in utility. 8 points must be put into talents which are more utility, and really dont have anything to do with damage on a raid boss. This is great, but when you're talking about pure damage numbers, its sort of makes tactics less appealing for the numbers, where assault only spends 4 points in survival/utility.

 

when you list only the advantages of tactics, and you dont compare them with something else, you risk creating the illusion that one has all of these bonuses, while the other has nothing.

 

When comparing the pro/cons of both side by side, you can kind of get the idea that as far as pure damage, assault definitely wins out, although you could note that the ammo usage for tactics is much less restricting than assault. Another thing to consider, would be that for aoe, tactics would definitely win out, since pulse cannon in tactics is far superior than assault.

 

In short, tactics is certainly much more ammo-friendly, but as far as pure damage output, it seems inferior to assault. Couple that with the fact that generally have to be in melee at all times, makes it much less appealing than assault, where you only have to be in melee every 9 seconds for stockstrike.

 

Thank you for your input however, and as i've said, with bioware failing to provide us with combat logs, the most we can do is speculate and debate.

[Hirokinae]

I have tested your spec, full assault spec and other hybrid specs in HM ops and none of them do nearly as much dmg as Tactics

 

Also, when you say something like that, you're already putting yourself in a hole and a rather... common fallacy.

 

Unless you're sitting there writing down each and every number as you do the rotation perfectly, we dont really have a way of saying "this spec definitely does more damage because i've tested and used them both."

I have tested and used many many specs as well, but I can only still offer what i "feel" does more damage, before going through later on and trying to work a formula to try and compare them.

 

I am definitely not 100% correct, I am only offering data, and solid calculations on speculations. When you start speaking in absolutes, "This definitely does more damage" based off... a whim, its a bit rough to take it as fact.

[spizzard]

Burst spec versus sustained damage.

 

You also have no possible way to account for HIB refreshes, which changes around the priority based system.

 

Interesting regardless.

[Broxxx]

You do have some valid points my friend, but one thing you have to note, is that much of assault's damage is ALSO unaffected by armor.

high impact bolt is 90% armor piercing, and hits MUCH harder than in tactics and is refreshed more often.

Incendiary round is pure elemental damage

Plasma Cell does a SIGNIFICANT portion of our damage, which is also unaffected by armor

 

 

The tactics vs assault debate is still ongoing, but from what i've read, most of it leans in favor of assault.

 

The pro/cons are mostly as follows:

Gut vs Incendiary Round. Incendiary is more expensive, but is definitely the superior ability as far as damage, especially considering gut's initial damage is kinetic

 

HIB in tactics vs. assault. - High impact bolt is by far the vanguards hardest hitting ability. With tactics, the only advantage HIB gains is 25% chance to garuntee a crit. Whereas in Assault, HIB is used over 2-3 times more, does 9% more base damage, has 30% more armor-piercing value, crits 30% harder, and restores 1 energy instead of spending 2, making it 3 ammo cheaper.

 

Fire pulse: Its a great ability, but the damage really isn't all that amazing. Usually in the 15 second window, you can use 1 fire pulse, and 1 HIB. In tactics, in the same 15 second window, you can usually get in at least 2 HIB's. With its armor piercing value, 2x HIB would definitely do more damage than a fire pulse and a HIB. Its a great ability, but not enough to warrent an advantage.

 

High Energy Cell vs. Plasma Cell. High energy cell is definitely easier on the ammo than plasma cell, but there is no doubt that plasma cell equates to more damage. in my current level of gear, it does 1,200 damage over 6 seconds. With HIB refreshing it, ion pulse putting it on 100% of the time, and a 12% chance to proc off ANY damage, its pretty much got almost 100% uptime on most of my targets, and is a HUGE dps boost over high energy cell, at the cost of not being able to regenerate ammo.

 

That leaves the advantages of tactics, which is that you use stockstrike more often, and ion pulse crits 30% harder. This is certainly good, but given that stockstrike and ion pulse do 9% more base damage in assault, the advantage is kind of further diminished.

 

The problem with tactics, is that ALOT of the points are wasted in utility. 8 points must be put into talents which are more utility, and really dont have anything to do with damage on a raid boss. This is great, but when you're talking about pure damage numbers, its sort of makes tactics less appealing for the numbers, where assault only spends 4 points in survival/utility.

 

when you list only the advantages of tactics, and you dont compare them with something else, you risk creating the illusion that one has all of these bonuses, while the other has nothing.

 

When comparing the pro/cons of both side by side, you can kind of get the idea that as far as pure damage, assault definitely wins out, although you could note that the ammo usage for tactics is much less restricting than assault. Another thing to consider, would be that for aoe, tactics would definitely win out, since pulse cannon in tactics is far superior than assault.

 

In short, tactics is certainly much more ammo-friendly, but as far as pure damage output, it seems inferior to assault. Couple that with the fact that generally have to be in melee at all times, makes it much less appealing than assault, where you only have to be in melee every 9 seconds for stockstrike.

 

Thank you for your input however, and as i've said, with bioware failing to provide us with combat logs, the most we can do is speculate and debate.

 

I feel like people are consistently forgetting to mention pulse cannon as a primary damage component in the tactics dps rotation. With the talent Tactical Tools reducing it's cooldown, Pulse Generator greatly increasing it's damage and Tactics' superior ammo regeneration, plasma cannon becomes the hardest hitting damage ability. If you are comparing the damage between tactics and assault and not accounting for plasma cannon in the tactics rotation, then the comparison is invalid. Also, the channeled portion of plasma cannon is of no concern in an OPS raiding environment. Yes, alot of the fights are very movement heavy, but I have found throwing in plasma cannon when off cooldown to be no problem what so ever. Of course this debate will continue until combat logs are made available, but I feel tactics puts out massive damage in a raid environment. However, this is not conclusive by any means, and I look forward to combat logs being made available in order to have concrete evidence about the damage capability between the specs.

[Hirokinae]

I feel like people are consistently forgetting to mention pulse cannon as a primary damage component in the tactics dps rotation. With the talent Tactical Tools reducing it's cooldown, Pulse Generator greatly increasing it's damage and Tactics' superior ammo regeneration, plasma cannon becomes the hardest hitting damage ability. If you are comparing the damage between tactics and assault and not accounting for plasma cannon in the tactics rotation, then the comparison is invalid. Also, the channeled portion of plasma cannon is of no concern in an OPS raiding environment. Yes, alot of the fights are very movement heavy, but I have found throwing in plasma cannon when off cooldown to be no problem what so ever. Of course this debate will continue until combat logs are made available, but I feel tactics puts out massive damage in a raid environment. However, this is not conclusive by any means, and I look forward to combat logs being made available in order to have concrete evidence about the damage capability between the specs.

 

Very valid point. You can add that to the list of tactics bonuses. with a 3sec channel, my pulse cannon can average to around 1800damage per GCD, definitely nothing to scoff at. I certainly do not wish to imply that tactics isn't viable. It is very viable, and the difference in damage between the two specs is probably not too far off. I would like to note that I am only saying that when i look at all of the pros/cons of assault vs tactics, to me it "seems" that assault edges out tactics, though by no mean am I absolutely right. Healthy discussion of the topic is good, and as we gather more information, and people like you add more layers to the topic, we can begin to form a more clear, concise picture.

[solister]

Along a similar vein, thoughts about something like this for PVP while running Ion Cell? Sure there might be a few wasted points, but you still get the damage and defense...thoughts?

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRMZMsMZbIbbdGhM.1

[va_wanderer]

Very valid point. You can add that to the list of tactics bonuses. with a 3sec channel, my pulse cannon can average to around 1800damage per GCD, definitely nothing to scoff at. I certainly do not wish to imply that tactics isn't viable. It is very viable, and the difference in damage between the two specs is probably not too far off. I would like to note that I am only saying that when i look at all of the pros/cons of assault vs tactics, to me it "seems" that assault edges out tactics, though by no mean am I absolutely right. Healthy discussion of the topic is good, and as we gather more information, and people like you add more layers to the topic, we can begin to form a more clear, concise picture.

 

Honestly, Pulse Cannon seems to be the attempt to be Vanguard's grav round -> demo round rotation for Commandos. Just doesn't feel like you want to spam Ion Pulse -> Pulse Cannon like Commandos do.

 

0/23/18 with Plasma doesn't feel like it's got bad flow to it, though. You get a lot of chances to proc freebie Stockstrike/HiB's while firing off those Ion Pulses (and SS can proc HIB), and can just toss in a Pulse Cannon when you're fully stacked. You're not hitting quite as hard with HIB, but you probably consume less ammo and can drop something else in, like Pulse Cannon.

[Koopababy]

Ive used every spec there is avail. I did really well using Ironfist for a long time, but i gotta say nothing compares to the Carolina parakeet spec. Not only is your dmg really good with the nonstop Hib procs you have the tank survivabilty to go with it. Im using the BM combat tech set, and theres no one i cannot dominate with this build. All out assault was good dmg but the survivabilty wasnt great.

[mykaelmjr]

Ive used every spec there is avail. I did really well using Ironfist for a long time, but i gotta say nothing compares to the Carolina parakeet spec. Not only is your dmg really good with the nonstop Hib procs you have the tank survivabilty to go with it. Im using the BM combat tech set, and theres no one i cannot dominate with this build. All out assault was good dmg but the survivabilty wasnt great.

 

Isn't parakeet a pvp spec though?

[Hirokinae]

Ah, i'd like to note to everyone that this is strictly a PVE RAIDING spec, as i believe the 4/6/31 or variations with assault plastique are much stronger for pvp, and would definitely do a variation of the "iron fist" if i were to pvp. So remember, this spec is a PVE, and not a PVP spec, meaning as dps, our survivability comes from following mechanics, and having decent healers, so we're worried about absolutely maximizing our dps.

[mykaelmjr]

As a follower of this thread I wanted to say great work Hiro!

[Hirokinae]

Ive used every spec there is avail. I did really well using Ironfist for a long time, but i gotta say nothing compares to the Carolina parakeet spec. Not only is your dmg really good with the nonstop Hib procs you have the tank survivabilty to go with it. Im using the BM combat tech set, and theres no one i cannot dominate with this build. All out assault was good dmg but the survivabilty wasnt great.

 

thank you for the input, however as I pointed out in the first part of the thread, I see this as a predominately PVE dps build. For pvp, the iron fist and parakeet could probably be better specs, and in general a 31 assault build would probably be better because of the burst.