Very strong Vanguard dps hybrid

[Hirokinae]

First of all thanks for all the informations and the work you're doing Hirokinae, reading your posts is a real pleasure for the rest of the DPS vanguards.

 

Recently I've been wondering more or less where the raw dps of the vanguard lies, in order to have a full picture and compare it with the rest of the dps classes. So looking at your little experiment in page 7, where you calculated the damage along 150 seconds for the assault spec, we can derive the dps 131000/150 = 873 dps. Plasma cell wasn't included in that calculation but i remember reading in another post of yours that it does 1200 damage every 6 seconds which is 200dps more. So adding the two number together we have that an assault vanguard full rakata does 1073 dps (in the ideal case where no hammershots where necessary, which is never possible).

 

This number seems rather low when you compare it with the average dps for scoundrels/hybrid sages which is know to be around 1300/1400. Are we that low in comparison with other classes?

 

I apologize for my late reply, been very busy lately. You had a very good idea in trying to calculate the rough dps output for vanguards, however i'd like to note that my little comparison was simply to compare one spec vs. another. You had a great idea in trying to use it to get a rough dps estimate, but there are several factors which are not included which would boost the dps numbers significantly. First and more important are crits. Second are cooldowns. Our relics/battlefocus are huge dps increases if timed right. It non-crit values might be lower as well because of course, you do have to rotate hammershot in a practical rotation in order to keep ammo values above 60%. But essentially crits are a huge part of our dps, especially considering that most of our main abilities have a 30% increased crit damage buff on top of our surge.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Hirokinae

[Hirokinae]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMhZMsMZfhrbzGhM.1

 

 

Why not this?

 

The 3% endurance does zero for actual dps. While Parralactic Combat Stims has the potential to give you more ammo for more Ion Pulse spam.

 

Sweltering heat I feel is just a good utility for trash mobs.

 

I guess the 3% endurance is just useless imo.

 

I love this spec though, I wish we had an aggro dump ability though.

 

You're very right. In order to absolutely maximize damage, parallectic combat stims would be an increase. Essentially, the 4 points in the first 3 teirs of assault are preference points. I choose the endurance for the extra survivability and found that parallectic stims was beneficial but only affects for 3 bosses. For my group I end up dps offtanking most of the time so I choose the extra survivability.

[Hirokinae]

@Hiro

 

In regards to HIB, are you using it every single time it's up or are you only using it on proc?

 

HIB should be used on cooldown, proc or not. =)

[va_wanderer]

I apologize for my late reply, been very busy lately. You had a very good idea in trying to calculate the rough dps output for vanguards, however i'd like to note that my little comparison was simply to compare one spec vs. another. You had a great idea in trying to use it to get a rough dps estimate, but there are several factors which are not included which would boost the dps numbers significantly. First and more important are crits. Second are cooldowns. Our relics/battlefocus are huge dps increases if timed right. It non-crit values might be lower as well because of course, you do have to rotate hammershot in a practical rotation in order to keep ammo values above 60%. But essentially crits are a huge part of our dps, especially considering that most of our main abilities have a 30% increased crit damage buff on top of our surge.

 

And speaking of crits, remember that DOT tics can (and do) also crit, and that Assault Trooper boosts this as well by 30%. Raw, untalented plasma cell deals about 1200-1300 over 6 seconds at 50. Anyone in Assault should have that increased 30% with Superheated Plasma, then have each crit get an extra 30% on top of your normal crit damage bonuses.

 

There's your missing DPS vs. other classes. And since it's DOT damage, it's "free" ammowise since you're going to have them on fire constantly from Ion Pulse anyway.

[Frogggystyle]

I took the original 8/8/25 build and made some mods to it for my PvP spec. I'll explain the changes I made to make sense of it. This is a 7/6/28 build variant of the 8/8/25 (which is a very solid DPS build) that exchanges a bit of Aim and Endurance benefit for some key PvP abilities and a bit more DPS when a traget's health goes below 30%:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMbZMsZfhMrzGhMc.1

 

What I dropped:

 

1 point from Steely Resolve

2 points from Frontline Offense

3 Points from Soldier's Endurance

1 Point from Nightvision Scope

 

Where I put those points:

 

2 Points into Sweltering Heat

2 Points Degauss

3 Points Burnout

 

Why?

 

1) Minus 1 point from Steely Resolve - The difference in adding 3% to Aim is negligible in the grand scheme of things and can be made up by higher-end gear/mods/buffs.

 

2) Minus 2 points from Frontline Offense - A 6% increase in Ion Pulse damage is nice, but I think these points can be better used in Burnout's benefits, especially in PvP environments where you are going 1v1 and both of you are close to death.

 

3) Minus 3 Points from Soldier's Endurance - A 3% boost in Endurance will not make a difference when you are being gang-effed in PvP, where your 15K health disappears in a matter of 3-4 seconds as you take it from all sides. As with #1, that 3% can be made up by higher-end gear/mods/buffs. Plus, at 15000 helath, is that 450 health *really* going to save your butt? I can count the number of times that I've survived a fight with under 450 health on one hand (your mileage may vary), so (again) big picture-wise, that 3% isn't going to be as useful as having more DPS to elimate the target(s) that you get below 30% in health.

 

4) Sweltering Heat - Since this is a Plamsa Cell-reliant spec, and this is the build I use for PvP, that chance to slow an opponent’s ability to run away is invaluable when you are trying to finish them off.

 

5) Degauss - A secondary snare debuff. I can't tell you how many times having a secondary debuff has come in handy and saved my backside.

 

This build gives you all the DPS as the original spec does, and adds a bit more as the target's health slides below 30%. While the survivability may appear to be lower, unless you are a pure tank where every point of health matters, it is better to put points in DPS abilities and forsake that ~450 point health gain (if you have 15K health) in favor of doing more damage to your opponent (since this is, afterall, a DPS build).

 

Fire away.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Frogggystyle

[Jachen]

Problem is with this last version is that it's very close to a full assault dps 4,6,31 build , personally i would rather have full reflexive shield and assault plastique than the 3 extra points in shield. Edited February 27, 2012 by Jachen

[Panodarl]

I have been following this thread from the very beginning and I must say that you do a very great job by comparing all the speccs available and calculating the numbers on HIB.

With my lvl 50 Vanguard I play with the following specc which was inspired by your first post but with some slight modifications, where I spend 3 points in Burnout for the bonuscrit and the ability to "execute" a boss, whereas I lose 1 point in Steely Resolve and 2 in Frontline Offense.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMbZMsZfhbbdGhMc.1

 

Now my question is, would my build produce more dmg if I reinvested these 3 points from burnout into more aim and 6% dmg on ion pulse?

[Winguardian]

Why do I need to get 100% accuracy? Does this really benifit our overall dps alot by having a few less misses instead of alot higher crits / overall damage on when they do hit?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Lokits]

this is probably the best pve spec atm been using it for a long time , my guild is on nightmare modes Edited March 17, 2012 by Lokits

[RogeAce]

Iooked at your first build on this thread and wondered how I could get more ammo regain so did some thinking and got this. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMhrZ0MZfhrrzGhM.1

[meester]

Bump because this is really useful for someone about to start his first Trooper!

[Mithar]

Iooked at your first build on this thread and wondered how I could get more ammo regain so did some thinking and got this. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMhrZ0MZfhrrzGhM.1

 

I have noticed a couple of builds, like the one quoted above, using Shield Cycler (http://www.torhead.com/ability/7D5zeMs/shield-cycler). I thought it was worth pointing out that, unless you are using a shield generator (and therefore losing out on a lot of dps stats), this will do nothing at all to help your ammo regen. With a power generator you cannot proc a shield and therefore cannot regenerate ammo when an attack is shielded.

 

On an unrelated note, I take Assault Plastique in my build because it is another 30m attack. It is one more thing I can throw at a boss when hiding under a shield generator, running from grenades at the end of lost island, or keeping plasma grenades away from the tank during the droid fight in lost island. Just my 2 cents.

[Arancha]

I found this to be a very interesting thread. I come from tactics and as you mentioned in your first post, I am very dissappointed with the damage output, and looking for alternatives. But I haven't been able to read the skill point distribution because links take me to a non-distributed spec. Could you please refresh the link with the actual 8/8/25 distribution?. Much appreciated.

[Mutsie]

I think there is a problem with torhead. All the links are bugged.