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Quarterly Producer Letter for Q2 2024 ×

Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

Xcore

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Xcore

Xcore

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I completely agree with your (and the other guys' you were quoting) sentiment, I think it will probably be ftp within a year... have you seen any videos on youtube for Guild Wars 2? That game looks so innovative and it's free to play... how is this game gonna compete with that?? Apparently it's already confirmed too that GW2 doesn't have this UI ability lag...

 

Really it's just so inexcusable this game was rushed and released in such a condition.. This bug was discussed during beta too so if Bioware was able to fix it they probably would have by now (it would have been in their best interest to anyway)... even beyond the sunk cost of buying the game, it sucks to see potential not realized...

 

Yes it is confirmed, ArenaNet has put a lot of thought into this issue we're discussing here. There is a BlogPost on their website (link in OP) that I recommend you check out. This alone gives me confidence in their product.

 

Can we say with certainty that GW2 is decent/good? No... of course not, it'll have to survive that same scrutiny that SW:TOR has to now (and is failing to do so). However, something tells me ArenaNet know a little bit better what they're doing...

 

EA/Bioware have no idea what an MMO is or needs. Of course, unless they actually do simply want to re-create KOTOR Online which I guess they've succeeded in somewhat...

 

 

I currently by default have full confidence in Blizzard, this is a sad statement as I believe them to have ruined WoW... still that says something in and of itself that I still believe their A Team to be amazing and able to create amazing MMOs.

 

ArenaNet and CCP have my absolute respect, I would buy their product with confidence though not as much as Blizzard. ArenaNet appear to be incredibly intelligent and passionate, gamers themselves. CCP has bar none, the absolute best playerbase relations of the industry... on top of that very technically capable and ambitious/innovative.

 

Bioware, naive, inexperienced as gamers themselves. Non-gamers, imo cannot make good games (Thus non-MMOers cannot make good MMOs). I can almost assure that if they had Top100 Raiders in their team that this game would have been a hundred times better.

 

EA, want money, will do anything to get it... completely misguided to the point that they themselves prevent all the potential success to ever flourishing. EA is where development teams go to die... RIP Westwood (great talent)... Mythic etc.

 

Very saddened that Bioware is on its way out as well...

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monjiay

monjiay

Posted
Posted
They closed my other thread so i guess we should watch this here.

A great example of the ......well.

 

Well the rhino defecation video didn't last long, but yours is still here so maybe you're ok. Great video, the music is awesome.

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myrmexaw

myrmexaw

Posted
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EA, want money, will do anything to get it... completely misguided to the point that they themselves prevent all the potential success to ever flourishing. EA is where development teams go to die... RIP Westwood (great talent)... Mythic etc.

 

you know ... you're right if you think about all the small studio EA bought only to ruin ... The gaming market would be so much diverse if it wasn't for that one company.

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myrmexaw

myrmexaw

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Just thought I would share a few videos I was posting about gunslinger bugs. Some show ability lag/responsiveness.

 

This shows a channeled ability doing the animation, cast bar, and triggers the GCD but does 0 damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z2HYPDezMQ

 

This shows an ability going to 100% and never actually going off. The ability should have been instant cast but was not. Then after a full cast of it, nothing happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA-0vxN05sw

 

This is just shows how bad the server/client are at communicating with each other about what is going on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUmHL2BQiug

 

They seem to be in the same realm as this thread. The channel thing seems to be with all channels as I have had the problem with speed shot and wounding shot. I am assuming other classes are feeling the same pain.

 

Yep i can concur all of wich that happens to you also happen to me on my trooper as well as my jedi shadow ( stunning someone in hutball fire and seeing them get out of it unscattered is a giant red flag in my opinion.... fail mechanic is fail).

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Dire-Wolf

Dire-Wolf

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Issues I've had with abilties:

 

1: Abilities not working immediately when I activate them. I guess this is the ability delay most people are talking about.

 

2: Animations resetting. Often on my Marauder an animation for my attack will start and half way through will reset and start to play all over again. This means attacks take a lot longer then they should. It happens most with Ravage but it also happens with my other abilties.

 

3: The global cooldown restarting itself half way through. That is to say I'll use an ability, the global cooldown will start to countdown and then half way through it will reset and start the countdown all over again meaning I have to wait longer before I can use my attacks again.

 

4: Abilities just straight up not working when I hit my hotkeys causing my to have to mash a button multiple times to get the ability to fire off.

 

5: This one doesn't relate to ability delay but it does relate to combat so I'll post it here. Companions not attacking when I engage in combat and then teleporting ontop of whatever it is I'm fighting. I don't know if this happens because I use Charge to open my attacks in solo play or what but it's quite annoying.

 

These problems don't make the game unplayable but they do make it less fun. Hopefully BioWare will get around to fixing all these issues soon.

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Xelosu

Xelosu

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Posted (edited)

Beyond any doubt there is some kind of problem with abilities and client - server sync.

 

Easiest way for anyone(pro or casual player) to experience it first hand is by using a mount.

If you use your mount ability and then as soon as casting time is over (bar fills) try to move forward, you will get dismounted.

This is only one example but it's easy to reproduce by anyone with character above 25.

 

I guess similar problem is generating "can't do that while moving" if you try to target AOE spell and your character turn in place to face the spot. It appears that animations somehow interfere with ability commands.

 

I wouldn't call that "ability delay", cause it's only happening to abilities that have cast, channel, long animations or are fallowing one of those.

 

For example I have never experienced this problem simply spamming "affliction" on a target.

On the other hand "Lightning strike" seems to generate some kind of problem when "Forked Lightning" proc. It seem to somehow interfere with ability queue.

 

So yes, problem do exist.

 

But is it game breaking?

I Would like to refer to someone's analogy to cars. He created a division of players to tree categories: 1) Casuals (mom driving SUV), 2) Wannabe pro (people driving sports car for fun), 3) Pros (self explanatory).

This was great analogy to explain people reasons in this post.

But it also shows other thing.

 

BioWare is company. Company primary goal is to make profit.

The way they make profit is to collect subs.

And here comes a simple mathematics that explains why this issue have not been fixed yet.

 

Number of subscribers:

Casual players >> Wannabe pro + pro

 

Like you have noticed already Casual players are now around level 20-30. They are enjoying the game and even if they noticed this problem is not their main concern.

Thus why BioWare can't redirect ALL resources to fix this problem making it top priority..

For the general game population it is not.

 

Reading this topic I saw many extremists, people that have bought new PC just to be able to run this game as smooth as possible. Well, can anyone please show me where BioWare made a statement prior to game release that they will support Hard Core competitive game play?

I know many game developers do announce stuff like this (for example Blizzard and his SC2 league and upcoming DOTA2). So on what ground do any of you claim that game is broken because it has some issues with 'competitive' play?

 

And again.

I am not saying that you are wrong, problem exist. And yes, it affects gameplay not only for pros and not only for PVP). I also believe that this have to be fixed before BioWare can think of starting any kind of competitive part of the game.

But there is non at the moment, so calling this game breaking at this point in time is exaggeration. And I see how someone not interested in competitive play can see some of the posts in here offensive. Some (self named pros.) are using very offensive language towards casual players.

 

Summary

By submitting this post in here I am joining all those who ask for this problem to be fixed.

But I also ask more passionate people in here, to refrain from releasing their frustration on casual players.

Edited by Xelosu
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fishy_jester

fishy_jester

Posted
Posted

This is actually the single one time I've logged in here to write something, and it's not something I usually do, in any game. But this is a huge let down for me and I'd like to see this thread on the first page all the time so devs and other players realize the problem.

 

I consider myself a casual player, my char is atm lvl 32 and Im enjoying the game so far, mostly because of it's exelent story and single player experiance. But that's about it. The combat feels clumsy and delayed, abilitys not firing when i tell them too ect. The diagram in the first post explains it pretty well imo.

For someone who's been playing WoW some years ago, also casual, you notice the difference right away. And concidering how many of the SW:TOR players are actually coming from WoW this is a huge letdown. I am ready to agree with the OP that this will break SW:TOR if not fixed in the near future. Ofc there will always be people playing just because it's a SW game, but the more elite players and many of the former WoW players (= a huge amount) will not be satisfied with the current situation and leave tha game in a couple months.

 

The PvP is a total disaster. And I've come to the point where I just wount que for it anymore.

 

Anyway, I know most of what I've said here has already been said, just wanted to add my voice to the masses. Fix it, prioritize it before other stupid small bugs and new content or there wount be many left to play that content anyway.

 

Otherwise: great game, you sure know how to make a good story. Cheers.

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Kooriyoukai

Kooriyoukai

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm normally not a forum poster or even the type to hit a 'reply' button after having found the information I'm looking for, but in this instance I have to make an exception to help support how severe an issue I feel this is becoming. I'm a casual player with a capital C, but that hasn't stopped me from playing WoW for 3 years or sinking hundreds of dollars into expansions and subscriptions. SWtOR has been a breath of fresh air and a fun game for me to play and pay for on every count... except for this issue.

 

Like so many others, I had difficulty putting my finger on the issue of what was feeling so "off" about my gameplay on my Sith Marauder. Once I'd gotten into the 20's, and now 30's, I began to notice more and more of a strange delay with certain abilities in combat, which only became more frustrating as these would occur without (seemingly) explanation or reproducibility. It wasn't until during several encounters I found myself mashing my "Battering Assault" ability over and over and watching the GCD trigger but not the ability go off, that I realized this was more than just latency or user error going on.

 

A brief Google search later brought me here, and I'm honestly flabbergasted by the sheer number of people who have come forward to explain their own problems with this issue. I suppose I'm a little late to the party, thanks to not purchasing my subscription until two weeks ago, but I feel that I MUST convey that even for me, Casual Player that I am, this is problem that I know will eventually drive me away from wanting to play this game through the end-content. Once I'm done leveling an alt for every class and have labored through the different craft skills, what will be left for me to do if the idea of taking my Warrior into a raid is just a joke? If the frustration over combat responsiveness is already this bad at level 30, I shudder to even think of attempting to play the character after hitting 50.

 

Big thanks to Xcore for bringing up the issue and bringing together all the different pieces to help explain the bigger picture. Even having experienced the problem myself, I got some big eyeopeners just by reading the threads and watching the videos you were helpful enough to include on the opening post. I can only cross my fingers that Bioware is listening and looking into solutions.

Edited by Kooriyoukai
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Tukat

Tukat

Posted
Posted
Beyond any doubt there is some kind of problem with abilities and client - server sync.

 

Easiest way for anyone(pro or casual player) to experience it first hand is by using a mount.

If you use your mount ability and then as soon as casting time is over (bar fills) try to move forward, you will get dismounted.

This is only one example but it's easy to reproduce by anyone with character above 25.

 

I guess similar problem is generating "can't do that while moving" if you try to target AOE spell and your character turn in place to face the spot. It appears that animations somehow interfere with ability commands.

 

I wouldn't call that "ability delay", cause it's only happening to abilities that have cast, channel, long animations or are fallowing one of those.

 

For example I have never experienced this problem simply spamming "affliction" on a target.

On the other hand "Lightning strike" seems to generate some kind of problem when "Forked Lightning" proc. It seem to somehow interfere with ability queue.

 

So yes, problem do exist.

 

But is it game breaking?

I Would like to refer to someone's analogy to cars. He created a division of players to tree categories: 1) Casuals (mom driving SUV), 2) Wannabe pro (people driving sports car for fun), 3) Pros (self explanatory).

This was great analogy to explain people reasons in this post.

But it also shows other thing.

 

BioWare is company. Company primary goal is to make profit.

The way they make profit is to collect subs.

And here comes a simple mathematics that explains why this issue have not been fixed yet.

 

Number of subscribers:

Casual players >> Wannabe pro + pro

 

Like you have noticed already Casual players are now around level 20-30. They are enjoying the game and even if they noticed this problem is not their main concern.

Thus why BioWare can't redirect ALL resources to fix this problem making it top priority..

For the general game population it is not.

 

Reading this topic I saw many extremists, people that have bought new PC just to be able to run this game as smooth as possible. Well, can anyone please show me where BioWare made a statement prior to game release that they will support Hard Core competitive game play?

I know many game developers do announce stuff like this (for example Blizzard and his SC2 league and upcoming DOTA2). So on what ground do any of you claim that game is broken because it has some issues with 'competitive' play?

 

And again.

I am not saying that you are wrong, problem exist. And yes, it affects gameplay not only for pros and not only for PVP). I also believe that this have to be fixed before BioWare can think of starting any kind of competitive part of the game.

But there is non at the moment, so calling this game breaking at this point in time is exaggeration. And I see how someone not interested in competitive play can see some of the posts in here offensive. Some (self named pros.) are using very offensive language towards casual players.

 

Summary

By submitting this post in here I am joining all those who ask for this problem to be fixed.

But I also ask more passionate people in here, to refrain from releasing their frustration on casual players.

 

 

 

 

you dont need to be a pro gamer/super/imba/elite/programer type of ting to know som ting is not right if you cant get you spells to go off.

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Drahkor

Drahkor

Posted
Posted (edited)
Issues I've had with abilties:

 

1: Abilities not working immediately when I activate them. I guess this is the ability delay most people are talking about.

 

2: Animations resetting. Often on my Marauder an animation for my attack will start and half way through will reset and start to play all over again. This means attacks take a lot longer then they should. It happens most with Ravage but it also happens with my other abilties.

 

3: The global cooldown restarting itself half way through. That is to say I'll use an ability, the global cooldown will start to countdown and then half way through it will reset and start the countdown all over again meaning I have to wait longer before I can use my attacks again.

 

4: Abilities just straight up not working when I hit my hotkeys causing my to have to mash a button multiple times to get the ability to fire off.

 

5: This one doesn't relate to ability delay but it does relate to combat so I'll post it here. Companions not attacking when I engage in combat and then teleporting ontop of whatever it is I'm fighting. I don't know if this happens because I use Charge to open my attacks in solo play or what but it's quite annoying.

 

These problems don't make the game unplayable but they do make it less fun. Hopefully BioWare will get around to fixing all these issues soon.

 

As someone who just started leveling a Sentinel I can confirm all those problems.

 

I won't however agree on the "just make it less fun" part, aside from point 5 everything else to me is a step-by-step guide on how to cripple a class on PvE and specially PvP combat. IMO, if you simply don't have control over your character actions then you have a gamebreaking issue.

Edited by Drahkor
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Khynnea

Khynnea

Posted
Posted

Words fail me really, but at least it's not "just me" and at least I don't have to try to explain my situation in a bug report as to why in combat skills won't respond when I press the corresponding keys, why they always seem to be on cooldown even if I never used them, and why my tanking cd's won't proc no matter how many times I hit the buttons. I half wonder if I'm going to break my keyboard at some point trying to get a taunt off or resilience used on my kinetic shadow.

 

I -am- spoiled by 'bad' animation with instant gratification of pressing a button and seeing immediate response. For many years. Progression raiding in this environment is impossible, and quite honestly it makes me glad that I haven't pvp'd.

 

But a Bioware response that says 'we are going to fix "it"' does little to reassure me after struggling with this for a month and rebuilding my computer when I thought -that- was the problem. (Which it was not.) When I am soloing content sure I can sit around and wait a .5 or a whole second before doing another action, but I sure can't afford to do that when I'm grouped with anyone or fighting a caster. Tired of having to get a friend to come with me if I have to interrupt something just because even if it is off CD and I am standing there WAITING for the cast, I can whack the interrupt constantly during the entire 2 second cast but it won't go through.

 

Bad enough being the tank in this situation. I can't imagine being the healer responsible for keeping people alive. Or removing a debuff. Oh wait, I know what it is like to be stuck in the lava and unable to get the remove incapacitation ability to go off.

 

All I want is to be able to hit a button and have the ability go off when I hit it. Have it take as long as it says for cast time, and know that when it cools down it is available again. Unless it got locked out somehow, but I shouldn't be having to mouse over all my commands during a fight, see them ALL greyed out and say 2m cooldown.

 

Meh.

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Isgarot

Isgarot

Posted
Posted
. I can't imagine being the healer responsible for keeping people alive. Or removing a debuff. Oh wait, I know what it is like to be stuck in the lava and unable to get the remove incapacitation ability to go off.

 

Its orrible be a healer in this game... just think at heal that do the animation and dont fire up .. UI castbar that dont show.. or dont tell you that the cast is interrupted (In pvp its so frustating) ecc..

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Powerhowse

Powerhowse

Posted
Posted

My biggest problems are:

Mirror classes not doing damage at the same time as the other mirror's abilities cause of the animations.

Animations for abilities playing after the channel for that abilities requiring the abilities to take longer than the supposed time for the channel

Miss firing of abilities.

Abilities needed to be pressed multiple times and the abilities still won't cast.

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Godsfear

Godsfear

Posted
Posted

I've had a problem for the last week that abilities simply won't fire.

 

I was sitting on the fleet the other day and just watching abilities fire after clicking them both with hotkey's and screen clicking. I watched as abilities would fire at different times with no obvious pattern as to why they would fire sometimes quickly and sometimes after 5 or 7 key presses.

 

This has been frustrating me in pvp to no end. Smashing my buttons watching as they click yet never fire off is super frustrating.

 

I also canceled last week. I hope they can fix this so I can justify paying for this game.

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