Why oh why can I hurt other players if I am not PvP flagged?

[GBscientist]

I'd like to add my voice to those complaining about this issue.

 

I was trying to complete 'The Thing that Czerka Found' on Tatooine and kept running into Republic players in the tunnels. The best attacks for my Bounty Hunter class being AoE, I used these on mobs to clear them out, but accidentally caught a yellow-tagged player in the blast. This sent me into PvP mode and I got swarmed by the other Republic players. Later on, my Companion automatically started shooting the Companion of another Republic player, so the player in question (a Jedi 5 levels above my own) ripped me to bits.

 

I would really like a way to avoid being sucked into PvP play when all I want is to complete what is supposed to be a PvE mission.

 

Have complaints about this been officially logged? How may I go about adding my own complaint?

[VorpalK]

hmm need one of those "not sure if you are being serious" pics

 

But for the sake of argument I will answer it seriously with a simple no its not within the game rules or at least as shown on Bioware's own support section about server types. (I have posted the link several times so feel free to look it up.) Just because it is possible to do it in game does not make it valid, as the people who exploited Illium found out.

 

Bioware you need to address this issue as people are confused, official support pages say one thing while actual game experience shows something completely different. Exploit or not? Fix coming or not? Silence is not an acceptable answer

 

Can't be said enough

[ScarletBlaze]

you rolled on a pve server so you can strike up a conversation with the other side out in the the field? lame.

 

Ever heard of roleplay or friends on opposite sides still wanting to talk but disliking pvp.

 

You comment is lame.

[Amarinth]

Rift.

 

If you set the option, you cannot perform any action on a PvP flagged player (friendly or enemy) without toggling the option.

 

I REALLY liked that setting in Rift and would love to see it here as I think it's a very simply way to prevent accidental flagging and the griefing that can result from it.

 

It could function something like this:

 

Short of entering open PvP areas, no action can automatically flag you for PvP while the anti-flagging setting is enabled. However as long as you have it turned on and aren't flagged for PvP already you cannot heal, buff, damage or otherwise affect anyone who IS flagged for PvP.

 

Like the OP I specifically stick to PvE servers and stay out of open PvP areas because world PvP in MMORPG's just isn't my thing.

 

What annoys me the most at the moment isn't even getting flagged for PvP the first place, but rather how awkward it is to get rid of it again. It seems companions interfere with the de-flagging timer (probably due to the way buffs are synced between the player and companion) and also the timer doesn't seem to run down unless I'm in a licensed safe zone, like a cantina, as apparently heavily defended outposts aren't safe enough.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Amarinth

[Grammarye]

Rift's design sounds by far the most sensible, if we must have flagging at all (because on a PvP server it's not necessary). If you want to engage in PvP at all, you must have the flag on, otherwise no action at all will cause PvP to become possible. Simple & effective.

 

I'm a proponent of PvP, but that doesn't include mechanisms that just let people grief others for no good reason. It gives PvP a bad name and detracts from the gameplay style.

 

Whilst we're on the subject, why the heck when you enter a given opposing area (not a PvP area, just the other side's territory) on Alderaan are you automatically flagged for PvP? Makes no sense to me. I popped in just to uncover the map, for crying out loud.

[Turelus]

I can understand the OP's annoyance at the issue. The other day I was on Ilum just trying to kill some trash while I waited for friends and had to stop using AOE because two Republic players were sitting waiting for me to do it again, just to fly into it and flag me.

 

Unfortunately that's the way the game mechanics are ATM so unless they change it due to complaints from people, those of us not looking to PVP should just try to be more vigilant.

 

On the note of resurrecting players flagged and becoming flagged it would be nice to have a small pop up before the skill activates saying "this player is flagged for PVP, continuing this action will flag you. Continue? YES / NO"

[Valperion]

Let me start by saying I hate PvP - So I play on a PvE server to avoid it. I am also not flagged for PvP.

 

So why on earth can I accidentally catch a wandering enemy player in my AoE and automatically get set into PvP mode?

 

Not only do I not want this (Hence finding a PvE server!) but it takes me by surprise and I am dead before I even realise what is going on! Then I have to wait 5 minutes for the flag to wear off, during which time I can't go and quest because I know there are invisible enemy players around?

 

How did this feature make it live?

 

Even worse I hear is that if a PvP flagged friendly walks into your heal patch then you are flagged for PvP automatically! This is absurd and needs changing quickly because as I am getting higher in level I am seeing more and more PvP flagged players and I do not want to be restricted to single target attacks for fear of accidentally hitting someone.

 

I can forgive the bugs but this is going to ruin the game for me if it isn't changed soon.

 

Its a exploit used ever since the beta.

* As early as last June.

 

Its been reported VERY often.

 

But you can thank bioware for ignoring the beta testers.

[LeComte]

I'd even go a step further...I don't think there should be any auto-flagging areas on a PvE server.

 

I really don't care if a PvPer gets butthurt over not having anyone to open world PvP with on a PvE server...there is a simple soloution to that problem, and strangely enough, it's the same damn soloution that PvPers like to throw in everyones face. "don't roll on a PvE server. That is what the PvP servers are for...go play there if you just gotta have your PvP fun.

 

I don't want to see PvP neglected, or gotten rid of, or not have it made into the best possible system it can be. Exactly the opposite, I hope it is everything that people come to expect from a good PvP system with lots of options and varieties.

 

I just, very simply feel there should be absoloutly ZERO non-concentual PvP on a PvE server. There is no forced raiding on a PvP server, no forced flashpoints...etc.

Edited January 14, 2012 by LeComte

[lollie]

Its a exploit used ever since the beta.

* As early as last June.

 

Its been reported VERY often.

 

But you can thank bioware for ignoring the beta testers.

 

If they stay silent on this, I suggest we do as I said earlier ---

 

If this issue isn't fixed within the next patch or so I suggest everyone exploit this mechanic as much as possible (grief the low levels by stealthing and hiding in their mob patches) until the outcry in the forums and tickets received is so huge they can't possibly ignore it.

Edited January 14, 2012 by lollie

[VorpalK]

If they stay silent on this, I suggest we do as I said earlier ---

 

If this issue isn't fixed within the next patch or so I suggest everyone exploit this mechanic as much as possible (grief the low levels by stealthing and hiding in their mob patches) until the outcry in the forums and tickets received is so huge they can't possibly ignore it.

 

If they stay silent on this, I wont resubscribe. I suggest that method.

Edited January 14, 2012 by VorpalK

[Zorvan]

If you see flagged players you should be paying attention and acting appropriately. I see no issue with this. If you start casting AoE's with them around, you're making a bad decision. They're hanging around flagged because they want PvP. If you don't, then don't hit them. Simple. I'm sorry but it's PvP and he's free to flag if he wants to, just as you're free to pay attention to what the heck you're doing and smartly avoid him.

 

I'm sorry, but that's a bunch of bullcrap.

 

Real PvP'ers are on the PvP servers. Those "hanging around" hoping to get yo surprise flagged are nothing but the baddie wannabe gankers that can't hack it on a real PvP server. He may be free to flag, but unless I flag myself as well, he should just be standing their looking like an idiot while I kill mobs because my attacks shouldn't even be hurting him.

 

PvE servers are for consensual PvP, meaning both parties agree to it.

 

Having some ******* standing there waiting for you to catch him in an AoE is not consensual.

 

No attacks should be able to hit another player unless BOTH players are flagged.

 

I'd even go a step further...I don't think there should be any auto-flagging areas on a PvE server.

 

I really don't care if a PvPer gets butthurt over not having anyone to open world PvP with on a PvE server...there is a simple soloution to that problem, and strangely enough, it's the same damn soloution that PvPers like to throw in everyones face. "don't roll on a PvE server. That is what the PvP servers are for...go play there if you just gotta have your PvP fun.

 

I don't want to see PvP neglected, or gotten rid of, or not have it made into the best possible system it can be. Exactly the opposite, I hope it is everything that people come to expect from a good PvP system with lots of options and varieties.

 

I just, very simply feel there should be absoloutly ZERO non-concentual PvP on a PvE server. There is no forced raiding on a PvP server, no forced flashpoints...etc.

 

Damn straight.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Zorvan

[Valperion]

If they stay silent on this, I wont resubscribe. I suggest that method.

 

I've already un-subscribed, for numerous reasons.

* Primarily for bioware doing nothing to inform the community that these issues are being worked on.

* Its sad and pathetic to see that this pvp exploit is still working on pve servers.

 

Instead of focusing the entire department on fixing the game-breaking issues.

 

Lets whip out a rakghoul/zombie apocalypse flash point.

 

and before some biodrone says, : "Give them time" or "That they can do both."

 

I am sorry, but as a beta tester.

I am telling you, they can't.

 

This exploit has been known and been in the beta forums since "JUNE".

 

 

----

 

Btw biodrone beta testers, remember when you can telling the beta community that we would have color matching armor at launch.

 

O wait... where is it?

Edited January 14, 2012 by Valperion

[KnightFireX]

Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead.

 

That's just how it works. If they're flagged, anyone and anything can and will do damage to them. If you do damage to someone, you become flagged.

 

WoW and DCUO just to name two off the top of my head. Tried to do it in WoW last night and nothing happened and DCUO has never allowed you to do it.

[jimmybob]

I'd even go a step further...I don't think there should be any auto-flagging areas on a PvE server.

 

I really don't care if a PvPer gets butthurt over not having anyone to open world PvP with on a PvE server...there is a simple soloution to that problem, and strangely enough, it's the same damn soloution that PvPers like to throw in everyones face. "don't roll on a PvE server. That is what the PvP servers are for...go play there if you just gotta have your PvP fun.

 

I don't want to see PvP neglected, or gotten rid of, or not have it made into the best possible system it can be. Exactly the opposite, I hope it is everything that people come to expect from a good PvP system with lots of options and varieties.

 

I just, very simply feel there should be absoloutly ZERO non-concentual PvP on a PvE server. There is no forced raiding on a PvP server, no forced flashpoints...etc.

 

Here here

[Triss]

If they stay silent on this, I suggest we do as I said earlier ---

 

If this issue isn't fixed within the next patch or so I suggest everyone exploit this mechanic as much as possible (grief the low levels by stealthing and hiding in their mob patches) until the outcry in the forums and tickets received is so huge they can't possibly ignore it.

 

We shouldn't have to do this to be heard. They are listening.

[emartell]

I didn't read many responses but I agree with OP. this feature is crap and I'd like it fixed

[Noviru]

Hello Everyone,

 

This is a notice that we recently had to remove several posts from this thread. Please do not make posts intended to bash certain playstyles, as this is considered rude and inappropriate for our forums. A reminder that regardless of the topic, it is part of our Rules of Conduct that:

• 
  
• Never insult another member of the community.
  
• Respect other community members, whether they agree with you or not.
  
• Flag, don't fight. Use the "flag" feature to report posts to our Community Team if you see someone breaking the rules – don't respond to them!
  
• Make constructive, on-topic posts that add to the discussion.
  

Thank you for understanding.

[monjiay]

In every thread that I see people complain about something, there is always someone who jumps in and says, "This is not a game breaking problem, let them fix everything else first".

 

Well, THIS is a game breaking problem. It will turn off any new player to MMOs that buys this game and gets ganked. It will turn off PVE people who want to roll alts. If you aren't safe to quest on a PVE server, that information will get a lot of notice and a lot of press.

 

"SWTOR, low level new players being slaughtered on PVE servers and nothing can be done!", doesn't look good on paper.

 

It is just unbelievably bad design, especially considering every single MMO that has come out since WoW has had to deal with this and every single one that I consider AAA (Warhammer, Aion, Conan, Rift) all had their solutions. Did no one that designed this game ever play an MMO before? Unbelievable.

 

I still can't get over no chat bubble and now this.

[Ateius]

Hello Everyone,

 

This is a notice that we recently had to remove several posts from this thread. Please do not make posts intended to bash certain playstyles, as this is considered rude and inappropriate for our forums. A reminder that regardless of the topic, it is part of our Rules of Conduct that:

• 
  
• Never insult another member of the community.
  
• Respect other community members, whether they agree with you or not.
  
• Flag, don't fight. Use the "flag" feature to report posts to our Community Team if you see someone breaking the rules – don't respond to them!
  
• Make constructive, on-topic posts that add to the discussion.
  

Thank you for understanding.

 

We get that. Throwing out noxious AoE into the forums is bad. Now, how about a response concerning the issue of the thread.

[DeathDiciple]

Yep I had this too, guy was following me around for 15 minutes until he finally managed to get caught into aoe effect... It's on the edge of griefing, and it sure as hell does not make you a great pvp-er if you beat me with 10 mobs helping but eh.

 

Guess I can understand BW taking either stance here, I'd just like an official response is it appropriate behavior or not (no, trolls don't count as official response). I have enough of dark side in me to make my own fun if that is how its meant to be, not whining by any means.

[ArkhamNative]

This has not happened to me (yet?), but I also consider it a serious bug (perhaps technically, design flaw). If I don't intentionally flag for PvP, I shouldn't be allowed deal damage to another player, whether via AoE or even single-target.

 

The potential for abuse of the current system is one-sided, and it sounds like it could already be happening. As others have said, it is unreasonable for the developers to expect PvE players to look around 360° for sneaky or even stealthed other players every time before firing off an AoE ability.

[Toweleeeie]

Let me start off by saying I was forced to play on a PvE server by my RL friends. There is like 9 of us and some of them refused to play on a PvP server.

 

So this tactic is my only open world PvP outlet. I love doing this to people. If I see a Sith, Ill do this every time. Its fun, its funny, and you know he's pissed.

 

I am against removing it from the game.

[archifikoss]

Let me start off by saying I was forced to play on a PvE server by my RL friends. There is like 9 of us and some of them refused to play on a PvP server.

 

So this tactic is my only open world PvP outlet. I love doing this to people. If I see a Sith, Ill do this every time. Its fun, its funny, and you know he's pissed.

 

I am against removing it from the game.

 

Or you could simply search for guilds that actively do PvP instead of griefing others. Or even, go to Outlaws Den or Ilum. Why not even search for flagged people? I saw 3 in a matter of 5 minutes on Tat - on an RPPvE server.

 

And BTW... Now you understand how certain non PvPers on PvP realms feel when you gank them. Same thing, only inverted.

Edited January 15, 2012 by archifikoss

[CharagonIGN]

It's not a bug. It's just half-assed game design.

[Rahl_Windsong]

I buffed an Empire player once and got flagged.....lol The thing is they should make it so that we can change name colors so that we can set enemy players to a different color, even when they are flagged. That way it becomes easier to avoid.