GalacticKegger Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Glad we could see eye-to-eye. Anyway, I will be taking my leave from this discussion (been at work and should really start working, lol). My final suggestion lies a few posts up. That is my stance on the issue. Good day!Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nytak Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You know an open combat log just lets you parse and do the same thing with another, outside, application? That being said, I only support a DPS meter for yourself only that is uncopyable to chat and can never be seen by others. I like it as a diagnostic tool. I hate having every other person ask how I do so much dps. Yes I am fully aware of that, however the question was do I support an in game version of recount, and my answer is still no.. regardless of any additional information you wish to provide me that I am already 100% aware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aryzyra Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I believe we've been pretty much on the same page there. Combat logs are good for both dev and end gamers as both learn from the information without its live use affecting gameplay. As long as addons like DBM (i.e. cheats) don't become a defining element of the game's combat mechanics I believe they have intrinsic value. Yes indeed. DBM is an abomination in many ways. Logging and parsing observed events, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happylol Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yes indeed. DBM is an abomination in many ways. Logging and parsing observed events, not so much. 100% agree. After raiding top 10 US in WoW as a healer, I feel like all I did was pay attention to both DBM and Healbot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It's simple really.. there are two sides: the ones who enjoy to be competitive and get a kill before everyone else does, and the ones who enjoy casually playing the game, setting own personal goals. To play the game competitively, you need to have all the information to min-max and get the most out of your character. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you remember that getting there first in a game does not mean others are less and are clueless. To play the game 'casually' dps meters are not needed since it's more about playing together, achieving your own personal goals and having fun with what comes your way. Which is also okay, as long as you remember that being competitive does not equal being elitist. Both sides should have what they want to enjoy the game. BUT the problem is if they mix and people who want to play casually get the 'elitist/competitive' **** forced down their throat and the people who want to raid competitively cannot figure out how to improve their raid-wide performance. How to solve it? The way the wow community ended up using recount is not what I would call a fitting solution for both sides. I liked the suggestion of only making a dps meter available between people in the same guild or only in a raid environment. So one side cheats and the other is casual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushia Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) So one side cheats and the other is casual. That is totally your opinion. Not sure why you reply this to my post. Edited January 13, 2012 by hushia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 That is totally your opinion. Not sure why you reply this to my text. You posted that there were 2 sides? The Raiders needing to get server first and casuals? People getting server firsts using meters and such are cheating. Just saying.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushia Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You posted that there were 2 sides? The Raiders needing to get server first and casuals? People getting server firsts using meters and such are cheating. Just saying.. Interesting. So you're saying that if people analyze a combat log and use it to improve their raid performance, it's cheating? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Interesting. So you're saying that if people analyze a combat log and use it to improve their raid performance, it's cheating? Why? Because; You these people are stacking the dice in their favor so as to ensure a win every time. Now, you take yourself to vagas and go into any casino and play a game. Lets's pick blackjack. Now attempt to look at the dealers cards.. Federal gaming law calls that cheating.. And that's exactly what these number crunchers are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushia Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Because; You these people are stacking the dice in their favor so as to ensure a win every time. Now, you take yourself to vagas and go into any casino and play a game. Lets's pick blackjack. Now attempt to look at the dealers cards.. Federal gaming law calls that cheating.. And that's exactly what these number crunchers are doing. Counting cards to improve your chances to win, is not the same as analyzing what you did and learn from your mistakes. If someone enjoys crunching numbers, he or she can be my guest.. I do not feel threatened by that or think it's unfair. I'm not a number cruncher myself, but that's why I play casual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happylol Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Because; You these people are stacking the dice in their favor so as to ensure a win every time. Now, you take yourself to vagas and go into any casino and play a game. Lets's pick blackjack. Now attempt to look at the dealers cards.. Federal gaming law calls that cheating.. And that's exactly what these number crunchers are doing. My IQ just went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyar Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Counting cards to improve your chances to win, is not the same as analyzing what you did and learn from your mistakes. If someone enjoys crunching numbers, he or she can be my guest.. I do not feel threatened by that or think it's unfair. I'm not a number cruncher myself, but that's why I play casual They can crunch their own numbers, but they shouldn't get mine. It's none of their damn business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Counting cards to improve your chances to win, is not the same as analyzing what you did and learn from your mistakes. If someone enjoys crunching numbers, he or she can be my guest.. I do not feel threatened by that or think it's unfair. I'm not a number cruncher myself, but that's why I play casual Aha! But, right now you cannot crunch the numbers right? So, everyone is against the content they were given. How-ever, as soon as you add logs, you are now stacking in your favor as you can see a lot more and stack in favor of a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ichikitsune Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Because; You these people are stacking the dice in their favor so as to ensure a win every time. Now, you take yourself to vagas and go into any casino and play a game. Lets's pick blackjack. Now attempt to look at the dealers cards.. Federal gaming law calls that cheating.. And that's exactly what these number crunchers are doing. You're thinking of DBM that tells you everytime when a boss is going to do something, the ability and whether to stack, spread or hit a button. What meters and combat logs are going to tell you is what happened, more akin to a football team analyzing a game tape the next morning to see what happened right and what went wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 My IQ just went down. I'd go to the doctor immediately, you can't afford to be losing whatever IQ you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You're thinking of DBM that tells you everytime when a boss is going to do something, the ability and whether to stack, spread or hit a button. What meters and combat logs are going to tell you is what happened, more akin to a football team analyzing a game tape the next morning to see what happened right and what went wrong. That's a fair point.. Now.. Can that same football team go back to the winners and ask for the game to be re-played so they ensure they win the next time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happylol Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You're thinking of DBM that tells you everytime when a boss is going to do something, the ability and whether to stack, spread or hit a button. What meters and combat logs are going to tell you is what happened, more akin to a football team analyzing a game tape the next morning to see what happened right and what went wrong. ^^this. DPS meter is exactly the same thing as looking at a replay of a starcraft game or a replay of a sports game. They allow you to analyze what happened and improve if you want. They don't make the game easier, they just allow you to know if you have room to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltuvion Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Because; You these people are stacking the dice in their favor so as to ensure a win every time. Now, you take yourself to vagas and go into any casino and play a game. Lets's pick blackjack. Now attempt to look at the dealers cards.. Federal gaming law calls that cheating.. And that's exactly what these number crunchers are doing. Oh dear... I think the doomsday clock just went up to two minutes to midnight. This quote is a monument to the stupidity of humanity. On topic... don't confuse parsers with dbm/bigwigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happylol Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 That's a fair point.. Now.. Can that same football team go back to the winners and ask for the game to be re-played so they ensure they win the next time? You realize this is exactly what happens in football right? The coaches will keep reports on each player, and they will tell you exactly what the player did last time. It is probably more prevalent in Baseball, where a pitcher is given exact details on how the last X amount of at bats went with the hitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Oh dear... I think the doomsday clock just went up to two minutes to midnight. This quote is a monument to the stupidity of humanity. On topic... don't confuse parsers with dbm/bigwigs. It's so simple to post "monument to the stupidity of humanity". Now what would be awesome is if you could post something to add some form of credibly to the statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ichikitsune Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 That's a fair point.. Now.. Can that same football team go back to the winners and ask for the game to be re-played so they ensure they win the next time? There are rematches all the time, LSU vs Bama, Conference rivals in the NFL play each other twice in a season..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You realize this is exactly what happens in football right? The coaches will keep reports on each player, and they will tell you exactly what the player did last time. It is probably more prevalent in Baseball, where a pitcher is given exact details on how the last X amount of at bats went with the hitter. Meanwhile the other team is also learning... In the case of meters or add-ons, you are stacking in your favor because the raid encounter does not change and you get a second go at it, now, with all the info you need to ensure a win. Simple cheating in any man's book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hy_C Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 100% agree. After raiding top 10 US in WoW as a healer, I feel like all I did was pay attention to both DBM and Healbot. Going to call ******** on top 10 US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 There are rematches all the time, LSU vs Bama, Conference rivals in the NFL play each other twice in a season..... See my other reply, but in short.. If LSU lose, LSU watch tapes and see where they need to improve. At the same time, Bama are looking at how LSU played and changing accordingly. The raid encounter stays the same, you are stacking in your favor all the time to ensure a win == cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happylol Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) It's so simple to post "monument to the stupidity of humanity". Now what would be awesome is if you could post something to add some form of credibly to the statement. Setanian, you really should just stop. Edited January 13, 2012 by Happylol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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