You think addons were the reason people left WoW? Honestly, WoW is vastly superior to SWTOR in almost every aspect of the game, aside from storyline and questing(both of which end at lvl 50). This is pretty much proven due to the fact that they copied almost 100% of the game from WoW(which yes was copied from the earlier MMO's). WoW is an amazing game, but after 7+ years of being out people get bored. It had nothing to do with addons. I hope SWTOR becomes a great game because it definitely has the foundation to do so, however I feel they launched about 2 months too early, which I think will eventually end up ruining the game.

I know guilds that are using DPS tanks because the bosses hit way too slow and for too small amounts. It seems the overall damage is coming from spells or raid damage.

According to your above mechanics, the current bosses only have - DPS burst - DPS overall - movement mechanics (stack/spreadout) Possible - healing throughput There are 0 interrupts necesarry, tanks are not even required, there is no mob control required aside from somebody moving SoA under the pylon. As a sorc healer I have time to DPS, that is how easy it is to heal the current content.

Setanion, Somebody a few posts above who claimed to be at the top of the EQ game, explained that the EQ fights were strat based, which would 100% be possible by trial and error. The current fights in SWTOR are DPS based, and trial and error does not eventually equal a boss kill. Does this make sense?

No and that is not even the fight I am really worried about. Going back and forth with 20 different people is such a waste of time.

Whether or not you played WoW really doesn't matter, the point is that most WoW Heroic bosses are designed around enrage timers which is also the case in SWTOR.

Ok thats what I thought. The SWTOR fights right now are 100% DPS based. The first boss in EV is basically DPS as hard as possible, heal a 15-17k burst, and stack when he missile barrages. The 2nd is basically tank and spank with movement every minute. 4th is 100% 1v1 DPS solo boss. (2 minute enrage solo) 5th is basically see if you can DPS the boss in order to beat the enrage(which ATM is mathematically impossible) I would love nothing more than to worry more about boss mechanics than DPS, but it is not possible ATM.

Awesome post man. I appreciate logical on topic posts. I WANT this game to succeed. I played WoW for 7 years at every level, and I am looking for something different. The operations so far are entertaining, but I am getting frustrated not knowing how to improve my group because of a lack of meter.

Oh god, setanian is posting again. This is the guy that said meters were cheating and using an analogy that every professional sport has been using for 30 years! To whoever said they played EQ and were top 3- Were there super tight enrage timers in EQ? I did not play so I am being serious here. In all honestly, I don't even care about having a meter or not. What I care about is the fact that the operations are being tuned around enrage timers instead of being tuned for boss mechanics, and the former pretty much requires you to know your overall group DPS output.

I don't want it to point fingers... I want it to be able to point a finger. Without knowing who is holding us back, it is impossible as a group to improve. I am a healer, so although I could be the one holding us back, I can virtually guarantee I am not.

Thanks for the suggestion, however this does not solve any issue. Some classes have incredibly higher burst damage than others, some classes perform better in raid situations, and some classes are just overall better than others. It would be useless to attack strong mobs.

What does this even mean? I was referring to top in WoW, which obviously does not 100% transfer over to this game. However, I feel like if we performed at that level in WoW and other past games, it should not be difficult to do here. As to your second point, I am really not sure how to properly reply to something like this? If you are asking us if we have Real life dates with the opposite sex, I can answer yes. How this has absolutely any reference to anything game related, I am not sure. P.S. People can be married, engaged, or single and still be amazing players.

oh my.

TheSkate, I care first of all. Second, what is 3 months going to change? Third, how would you recommend fixing a problem that you can't put a finger on. Our DPS is behind? Yes. Why? No *********** clue. Maybe we should just randomly rotate people out one by one until we eventually come up with a group capable of killing the boss? Sounds like a GREAT idea.

There are definitely people that think you can not beat a boss without a DPS meter. There are also people that can beat the boss without a DPS meter. There are finally people that can't beat a boss without a DPS meter, because they don't know who is holding them back.(this is my issue) I am having trouble beating NM bosses because I have no way to judge who is holding us back. If you know a way I can fix this please let me know.

Mr. Titanten, Have you killed any bosses currently on Nightmare modes? By the way, I agree with your point on DPS does not matter if you kill the boss. If player A is pulling 3k DPS, and player B is pulling 1k, and you end up killing the boss great! The problem lies when you don't kill the boss. Also, I have been playing with some of these peolpe for 4 years in a top 100 world/top10US guild. I doubt any of them have troubles and say things like, "omg I keep dying to this quest". I am not sure why you think I am playing with incompetent players, but I can assure you I am not.

TheSkate, Would you have fun wiping on a boss for 3 months straight, with no new content for 3 months, and with no way of knowing what is keeping you back? A lot of us have fun wiping and raiding, but when you have no way of knowing what is holding you back, it becomes quite frustrating and eventually not fun at all. If SWTOR raiding was designed on having fun I could understand, but the fact of the matter is the enrage timers on Nightmare modes are so tight that DPS is the #1 issue.

^^ thanks for this. It is so frustrating to read 96 pages of posts from people that think meters are not needed. I can NOT imagine what WoW would have been like without a meter. Not only did it showcase who was slacking, but it also showcased who was performing really well. I don't think I have seen one logical reason as to why meters should not be implemented aside from people abusing them, and the fact that we have to suffer because of these idiotic people is beyond me.

Mr. Titanten, How do you know who is good? How do you judge this? How do you know which DPS is better than the other? If I played with my WoW guild with no meters, I would not be able to tell you who is top DPS and who is last.

Mr. Titanten, #3a- what happens if the boss does not eventually die? Could it be that somebody in this group sucks compared to the rest? How does one go about solving the mystery of who is holding us back without a meter?

All Operation stuff is dead for the week Flashpoints that provide no gear are 100% worthless Dailies that provide no real upgrades is not fun Crafting anything is a huge waste of time Warzones with low levels are a waste(fix is coming I know) Leveling alts gets old fast There is definitely STUFF to do, but its boring as ****. WoW was just as boring, so I am not going to go crying a river, but at least I felt like I should log onto my character.

Yes it is very valuable. That is why every major sports team, poker player, and almost anybody that competes in everything uses it.

LMAO holy ****.

I am sorry. Go look up Incite on Youtube, look at the Professor putricide kill, and look at my name there. Top10 US guild at one point and ~ top 100 world for a LONG time. I would love to be in a guild that just focused on doing the mechanics(if this was possible) but the fact is both WoW and SWTOR have strict enrage timers that force DPS to the edge. This means needing DPS meters in order to see who is cutting it. Tanking meters(non issue), healing meters(is healing even an issue on ANY fight right now)? I don't feel it is as a healer right now. I have yet to not complete a boss because I was just too under geared to heal.

I played WoW for 7 + years... not sure where you are getting the first bit from. The numbers are a COMPLETE guess from my experience, and could be off. The point of them still stands though. I am not talking about the encounter being difficult... My point was that all the top 10000 guilds(this is not correct) in WoW have the same gear and DPS meters, yet only 300 of them can complete it. This basically means two things. Either the other guilds have more time, or they are better players.