ferroz Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Holy crap is it really that important? 60 pages? And don't say many people want it because I been watching the same people post over and over again. Yes its a hot topic but doesn't mean we need it.They've actually split this thread due to size more than once: Previous (128 pages): http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=149604Original thread (106 pages): http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=5025 so... more like 294 pages, not 60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think this is more damaging than any meter can be. A threat meter that gives you information already NOT available is making the game easier, and I think is actually opposite of what most people in this thread want.Most likely this is going to be derivable once we have combat logs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trublmaker Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 eq had damage meters (real time parsers) before it's first expansion. Maybe no one in that guild used them... I'm a bit skeptical though. More likely you just didn't know. Nice straw man fallacy. There were no meters in the GUI; never once did I make such a claim regarding parsers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aryzyra Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think the best option would be for each person to be able to turn their ability to be tracked on and off. This way guilds will require it to be tracked, while pugs and FP's have the option. Yep. Puggers hiding their activities from one another is completely irrelevant imo. Let it be so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happylol Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yep. Puggers hiding their activities from one another is completely irrelevant imo. Let it be so. What does this even mean O_o. So much contradiction I can't comprehend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ichikitsune Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Honestly, this is fine minus the fact that pug raids with friends not guilded would probably want meters. I think the best option would be for each person to be able to turn their ability to be tracked on and off. This way guilds will require it to be tracked, while pugs and FP's have the option. The main problem I see with, is that some people(the same people that would cause meters to have issues) would probably require meters on in order to join their group. As to your threat meter point- I think this is more damaging than any meter can be. A threat meter that gives you information already NOT available is making the game easier, and I think is actually opposite of what most people in this thread want. Maybe on the threat plate/meters never thought about it, thanks =D. It will give me something to really think about, I appreciate it . Yeah, as far as the skada/recount camps I can see both sides of the issues because I have been on both ends of it. Getting kicked in 5 man regs unless I do x amount while in there to get the gear to do x amount and I'll admit I gotten caught up looking at the meter and wanting to kick people when if I took the time to inspect I would understand they were in the same boat I was in 2 months ago. I'm not saying everyone should just get along but if we as a playerbase in this thread can come up with a compromise then the devs would more likely take a closer look and try something out then we as a playerbase would help make this game more enjoyable and I don't mean stuff like "x is op fix nao" type of stuff. Personally I am enjoying the game cause of the freedom of meters, worrying about this and that, making sure DBM is up to date, etc. but then again I'm a level 40 Juggernaut tanking for really the first time (was a melee dps in all other games). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohlar Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 No tools to make the game easier please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aryzyra Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 What does this even mean O_o. So much contradiction I can't comprehend. Means if pug players want other pug players to not see what they're doing, that's perfectly fine with me. I don't care if they do or don't, because I don't anticipate ever pugging. So I support the "opt out" option. I just want the option for group in-game stats among consenting adults. Or at the very least a group-wide log. Would be a total hassle to require every player to upload personal logs to an outside parser just to see basic information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happylol Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Means if pug players want other pug players to not see what they're doing, that's perfectly fine with me. I don't care if they do or don't, because I don't anticipate ever pugging. So I support the "opt out" option. I just want the option for group in-game stats among consenting adults. Or at the very least a group-wide log. Would be a total hassle to require every player to upload personal logs to an outside parser just to see basic information. Gotcha. I think the biggest argument I see is people do not want to be judge based on meters, and I feel like this would give them the option to avoid this while also allowing it for the players that want it. I am actually going to make a new thread about it and see what kind of responses I get, in order to not derail this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skevich Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I use to run without recount during Vanilla WoW and never had a problem with knowing who was slacking. All I had to do is pay attention to who was doing what and what abilities were being used. Keep recount out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guided_by_voices Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I didn't make a blanket generalization like you did. I'll try to do better at emulating you: The people crying the loudest against combat logs are people who want to be involved in group play, but have no intention of contributing to group play. did you even read the last few pages? look at Galatickegger (sp) last few posts before you make such broad in inaccurate assumptions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happylol Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I use to run without recount during Vanilla WoW and never had a problem with knowing who was slacking. All I had to do is pay attention to who was doing what and what abilities were being used. Keep recount out of this. So you are telling me you cleared the hardest content available, did not have recount, and could tell peoples DPS by the animations they were using? Can I please have your brain? In all seriousness, the only way I see this working is if the group was collectively pulling their weight, in which case you do not need a meter. I think the people that want meters, are more concerned with knowing who is or who is NOT pulling their weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushia Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) It's simple really.. there are two sides: the ones who enjoy to be competitive and get a kill before everyone else does, and the ones who enjoy casually playing the game, setting own personal goals. To play the game competitively, you need to have all the information to min-max and get the most out of your character. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you remember that getting there first in a game does not mean others are less and are clueless. To play the game 'casually' dps meters are not needed since it's more about playing together, achieving your own personal goals and having fun with what comes your way. Which is also okay, as long as you remember that being competitive does not equal being elitist. Both sides should have what they want to enjoy the game. BUT the problem is if they mix and people who want to play casually get the 'elitist/competitive' **** forced down their throat and the people who want to raid competitively cannot figure out how to improve their raid-wide performance. How to solve it? The way the wow community ended up using recount is not what I would call a fitting solution for both sides. I liked the suggestion of only making a dps meter available between people in the same guild or only in a raid environment. Edited January 13, 2012 by hushia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapitaFK Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 All of this can be tweaked on the back end once dev becomes aware (if they aren't already) and makes time for it. Hopefully they'll read your post. Thus, we come to a conundrum. Either make fights easier to remove the need for addons, or make fights harder to offset the use of addons. I have not yet encountered a more diverse set of boss mechanics than are present in WoW. I'd be hard-pressed to find any, and I've played endgame in too many MMO's to count. Aside from that, general addons aren't even the topic here. Personally, I don't care much for addons as I'm perfectly capable of stepping out of the fire. But the topic is a raid-wide parser, which I am in full support of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teslamatic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I´d love a recount. It has helped us raid better. Period. Says the raid leader: "You died in fire, you died to dot, he didn´t get a heal in time, you need to do more damage..." Let´s focus on those problems next try. We all improve. If you´re in a decent guild, you get opportunity to improve. If not, well... not the recount´s fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aryzyra Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) did you even read the last few pages? look at Galatickegger (sp) last few posts before you make such broad in inaccurate assumptions Did you read the post I was responding to? Or even the post you quoted? It was intended to be broad and inaccurate. The level of discussion over several hundred pages of nearly exactly the same points repeating ad nauseam needs the blanket statements. It's like a heartbeat. I have no intention of ever belittling some random player for their dps. I only play with friends. I want a group combat log. I'm also perfectly fine with players I don't and won't ever know hiding their stats from the random bogeymen they meet during play. Edited January 13, 2012 by Aryzyra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nytak Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Nope, don't support it. All I want is a combat log. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TItanten Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Nope, don't support it. All I want is a combat log. You know an open combat log just lets you parse and do the same thing with another, outside, application? That being said, I only support a DPS meter for yourself only that is uncopyable to chat and can never be seen by others. I like it as a diagnostic tool. I hate having every other person ask how I do so much dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushia Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You know an open combat log just lets you parse and do the same thing with another, outside, application? That being said, I only support a DPS meter for yourself only that is uncopyable to chat and can never be seen by others. I like it as a diagnostic tool. I hate having every other person ask how I do so much dps. I love you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharmakon Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Nah. I'm having lots of fun without recount and without a combat meter. No support from me on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guided_by_voices Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Did you read the post I was responding to? Or even the post you quoted? It was intended to be broad and inaccurate. The level of discussion over several hundred pages of nearly exactly the same points repeating ad nauseam needs the blanket statements. It's like a heartbeat. I have no intention of ever belittling some random player for their dps. I only play with friends. I want a group combat log. I'm also perfectly fine with players I don't and won't ever know hiding their stats from the random bogeymen they meet during play. my apologies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapitaFK Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Honestly, there are a few solutions to this to please both camps, and two stick out in my mind. 1. Guild-only raid meter // Personal damage meter-- Tracks stats for guild raids ONLY, and can only be toggled on by Guild Master or Officers. Personal meters enabled for all other things. 2. Raid-wide combat log with the ability to turn logging on and off per fight, as well as save each log to a text file // Personal damage meter -- This way, people can only see their own performance immediately in a raid, but guilds can parse the combat log using a third-party program after the raid to review performance by each member. Edited January 13, 2012 by CapitaFK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aryzyra Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I'm having fun without a monitor. This game doesn't even need graphics. That's how amazing it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Thus, we come to a conundrum. Either make fights easier to remove the need for addons, or make fights harder to offset the use of addons. I have not yet encountered a more diverse set of boss mechanics than are present in WoW. I'd be hard-pressed to find any, and I've played endgame in too many MMO's to count. Aside from that, general addons aren't even the topic here. Personally, I don't care much for addons as I'm perfectly capable of stepping out of the fire. But the topic is a raid-wide parser, which I am in full support of.I believe we've been pretty much on the same page there. Combat logs are good for both dev and end gamers as both learn from the information without its live use affecting gameplay. As long as addons like DBM (i.e. cheats) don't become a defining element of the game's combat mechanics I feel they have intrinsic value. Edited January 13, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapitaFK Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I believe we've been pretty much on the same page there. Combat logs are good for both dev and end gamers as both learn from the information without its live use affecting gameplay. As long as addons like DBM (i.e. cheats) don't become a defining element of the game's combat mechanics I feel they have intrinsic value. Glad we could see eye-to-eye. Anyway, I will be taking my leave from this discussion (been at work and should really start working, lol). My final suggestion lies a few posts up. That is my stance on the issue. Good day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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