LFG Tool is NOT Needed

[Szazi]

WoW community was dead BEFORE lfg tool- lfg tool had nothing to do with it- your view is skewered!

 

lfg is NOT NEEDED in this game due to heavy instancing of EVERYTHING

 

Correction to your post

[Taroen]

Everyone, no. Most people, yes.

 

You don't know that. I highly disagree that everyone is stuck spamming the general chat for groups. There's a minority that just can't imagine any other way to get a group. And a good chunk of them are posting on this thread. Most of the rest are playing the game and running the content.

 

There are exceptions to every rule, and as of now your choices are limited to spamming Fleet general or finding 3 other people who'll actually use the /who tool.

 

Only if you have purposefully ignored the myriad of other suggestions that have been provided for you.

 

Some people get in just fine, yes. Either they were in a large guild from the start, or they got lucky.

 

THAT'S TOTAL CRAP. Lucky my ***!

 

They must be really lucky then, since they can do it over and over. Or maybe they're doing something other than spamming the general..? Their method works, your's does not... Take a tip from them.

 

The first few days of early access, I got a group in less than a few minutes. Since then, however, haven't had the same luck. And it seems plenty of people are skipping flashpoints or avoiding group content and experiencing the same reasons.

 

By your metric. What metric is that again..? You can't get a group yourself and you see a few people crying about it on the forums, so that amounts to a consensus?

 

Running content is how most of us make contacts in this game. That's more or less why cooperative content is there in the first place. What did you think it's purpose was, gear?

 

When I ran into people early in the game, I would see people near that heroic 4, or that heroic 2+ and actually TALK to them. I know that concept is so foreign. And when it turned out that we both had the same missions, we'd run together. I would put that person in my friends list. Later, when I was going to run a flashpoint and I wanted to form a group, I would get that guy and a couple others like him to go with me.

 

That snowballed, and now I don't have any problem at all running content.

 

If I can do it so can you.

[Liathan]

Sorry but you are wrong there buddy. I played from beta/release on, LFG tool put the nail in the coffin for World of Warcraft.

 

So your saying that WoW was already dead by the time LFG came out?

[gtmach]

To be honest, I too would support an LFG tool.

 

My main reason why deals with my leveling.

 

When I quest in this game - I'm really immersed in the story. I occasionally talk to a friend but that's it. Chat bothers me in this game. It didn't in WoW because WoW didn't immerse me like this game does.

 

When trolls start ranting in general chat while I'm in dialogue w/ a quest giver, it really takes me out of the experience.

 

Hence I do like the idea of just queuing up for an instance (just like we do for pvp at the moment) and going about my questing until the Join pops up.

[Liathan]

Just because you see spamming doesn't mean that it's how people form groups. Obviously they aren't having the greatest success with that method. Meanwhile, others are actually running the content. They did it without spamming over and over.

 

Gee, I wonder how..?

 

I don't know, why don't you tell me how?

[LordAposno]

Yeah, but not so much ease of responding...

 

Accessible and winnable are two different things. You want the content to be able to be plodded through by any uncoordinated group of random people. I don't. That's boring as all hell.

 

I didn't make anything up. You keep coming back to the notion that I'm trying to keep you from getting your purples, and then you claim that I just want to be sure that I have better gear than you. But I've already said I would GIVE you my gear if you would just see that there is a better way than to turn this into a lobby game... and even help you get more.

 

Several times.

 

But it somehow sticks in your head that I don't want you to have that gear, which leads me to believe that gear is your primary concern. You think I'm trying to hold you back from it.

 

I'm not the one coming to the forums crying because I can't get a group instead of actually spending that time to... well I dunno... GET A GROUP. I love the game the way it is. I'm not crying over anything. You guys are.

 

I agree with you on the pre-50 tool, but that isn't what these other people want. They want the same faceroll experience they got trained on in WoW. Most of them literally know of no other way.

 

 

 

Taroen,

 

I only bring up gear because your arguments end the same way, the nerfing of End game heroics, so people face roll to purples. My gear is not bad for my playstyle. I have been lucky and have won most of my gear from FP's. For my level and gear it works fine. I only want ,as stated before, a pre 50 LFG tool. I do not see BW nerfing content because of a pre 50 LFG tool. What happens later I dont know. At 50 with the big guild I belong to, I see no issues running anything I want. Unless the time I log in might be an issue.

 

 

People are not crying, they just have a different opinion than you. They came to the forums to express their need and want of a LFG tool. If you listen they have valid arguments and points. I understand your fear, but I think at this stage in the game, that fear is misplaced. Nerfing content is not even on the radar yet. All of the groups I have been in have managed to clear content. Some of had wipes yes, but you try again and we win. Its challenging yet not impossible. No need to adjust or nerf it in any way. I can only speak for pre 50 content.

[gurugeorge]

LFG would be cool if people used it. On my server it simply doesn't get used.

 

Yea, that's because of stupid things like LFD tools, and people getting used to them.

 

Using a standard LFG and ACTUALLY TALKING TO PEOPLE BEFORE TEAMING WITH THEM seems to be beyond the capacity of some players.

 

If half the people spending time here moaning about LFD spent that time instead learning to use the LFG that exists, they'd soon find there is little need for an LFD.

 

(I think there's some validity in the argument for a cross-server tool in the wee small hours - but it still shouldn't be auto, it should still require conversation before teaming, and the act of choosing your team, or choosing who you're going to team with.)

 

This should all be obvious, but the whole idea of virtual worlds and virtual communities has fallen so by the wayside in the chase for convenient lobby games, that it's like talking ancient greek to people.

Edited January 11, 2012 by gurugeorge

[Liathan]

You don't know that. I highly disagree that everyone is stuck spamming the general chat for groups. There's a minority that just can't imagine any other way to get a group. And a good chunk of them are posting on this thread. Most of the rest are playing the game and running the content.

 

 

 

Only if you have purposefully ignored the myriad of other suggestions that have been provided for you.

 

 

 

THAT'S TOTAL CRAP. Lucky my ***!

 

They must be really lucky then, since they can do it over and over. Or maybe they're doing something other than spamming the general..? Their method works, your's does not... Take a tip from them.

 

 

 

By your metric. What metric is that again..? You can't get a group yourself and you see a few people crying about it on the forums, so that amounts to a consensus?

 

 

 

When I ran into people early in the game, I would see people near that heroic 4, or that heroic 2+ and actually TALK to them. I know that concept is so foreign. And when it turned out that we both had the same missions, we'd run together. I would put that person in my friends list. Later, when I was going to run a flashpoint and I wanted to form a group, I would get that guy and a couple others like him to go with me.

 

That snowballed, and now I don't have any problem at all running content.

 

If I can do it so can you.

 

 

 

Are you ignoring my question every time I ask it because you can't actually answer it?

[HoneyBoy]

Yea, that's because of stupid things like LFD tools, and people getting used to them.

 

Using a standard LFG and ACTUALLY TALKING TO PEOPLE BEFORE TEAMING WITH THEM seems to be beyond the capacity of some players.

 

If half the people spending time here moaning about LFD spent that time instead learning to use the LFG that exists, they'd soon find there is little need for an LFD.

 

(I think there's some validity in the argument for a cross-server tool in the wee small hours - but it still shouldn't be auto, it should still require conversation before teaming, and the act of choosing your team, or choosing who you're going to team with.)

 

This should all be obvious, but the whole idea of virtual worlds and virtual communities has fallen so by the wayside in the chase for convenient lobby games, that it's like talking ancient greek to people.

 

If people aren't using the tool for whatever reason then it's a design failure.

 

I'm sure everyone here in this thread knows about the current LFG function. I don't see how they can "learn that it exists" and what good that will do them if people who aren't here or who don't visit these forums will never use it.

[Liathan]

Yea, that's because of stupid things like LFD tools, and people getting used to them.

 

Using a standard LFG and ACTUALLY TALKING TO PEOPLE BEFORE TEAMING WITH THEM seems to be beyond the capacity of some players.

 

If half the people spending time here moaning about LFD spent that time instead learning to use the LFG that exists, they'd soon find there is little need for an LFD.

 

(I think there's some validity in the argument for a cross-server tool in the wee small hours - but it still shouldn't be auto, it should still require conversation before teaming, and the act of choosing your team, or choosing who you're going to team with.)

 

This should all be obvious, but the whole idea of virtual worlds and virtual communities has fallen so by the wayside in the chase for convenient lobby games, that it's like talking ancient greek to people.

 

How much talking is there? There's nothing in the current system that forces me to talk to people when I'm grouped with them or waiting for a group to fill up. And how much talking was ever done before the introduction of LFG tools? Beyond finding out someones spec, none.

 

How much choice is there in sending a tell to someone spamming a chat channel? You need a group and they need one more... It's not like I'm sending them a resume or running a background check before grouping with them.

[Taroen]

And he doesn't represent everyone, though you'll probably continue to argue that he is in fact what every person that likes LFD should be. Thus, strawman.

 

I never said that he DID represent everyone. I replied to him directly. What I may do in your mind at some point in the future does not exist in reality. I never constructed a strawman. It was all in your head.

 

When it's cross-server, yes. When it's same-server, there still remains quite a lot of accountability for your actions. And faceroll has nothing to do with LFD. This game has no LFD, and a whole lot of the content outside of nightmare modes is faceroll.

 

I agree about the accountability part, but the rest isn't true. When the auto-tool exists, the content gets tuned for random groups with no coordination. It's faceroll, and I don't know how to make that any more clear to you.

 

Please go a bit more into 'get yourself involved with people'. Specifically, how do you initiate talking to them in the first place, especially since you continue to say that spamming general isn't the only way to talk to people, but have been hazy on how you initiate getting to know people otherwise.

 

I've already told you that, in the other reply. We seem to have two seperate discussions going here, so don't get upset if I condese them into one at some point. Hell, one guy I ended up running with just because I asked him about his mount, and he asked me later if I had a certain heroic. Just talk to people.

 

I just don't see how a same-server lfd ruins socialization. If anything, it means it's quicker to form groups, which means I'm seeing more people, which means I have more people to add to my friends list and talk to.

 

It doesn't, and I've already said many times that I think a same-server tool for pre-50 content would be greatly beneficial to the game. But post-50 it is bad, for multiple reasons.

 

Many people have proven it can indeed be hard. I'm interested in doing Athiss, I ask around in general, and no one else at that time wants to run it. Trouble is, showing any further interest on that subject constitutes as spamming general, which you continue to insist isn't neccessary.

 

You say it's too hard. I tell you how to do it. You ignore me. You say it's too hard. It keeps going in a circle.

 

So.... why the heck are you arguing so much with people who agree with you on that? I have no problem with lfg not being an option for harder content. Why do you continually insist that people who like lfg are anti-social, horrible people when you are one of those people that would like an lfg tool?

 

Because apart from what you may want, many others here want the same experience that WoW trained them for. Easymode random groups with boring content that doesn't require any cooperation.

 

Many of those people ARE anti-social and want a lobby game. And though I don't recall calling any person horrible, that gaming style sure is.

[RocNessMonster]

A single player game does not need a LFG tool. But this MMO, that I pay for does. Yes I am entitled, my monthly $15 gives me that entitlement. I never said instant group, but I do need something that makes grouping easier.

 

No, the only thing your subscription entitles you to is access to the servers. Read the EULA.

[LordAposno]

No, the only thing your subscription entitles you to is access to the servers. Read the EULA.

 

 

 

You took the time to post that? Really? Let me put it different so you can understand. Grouping is not easy. It it was this thread would have died on page one. In order to keep the customer base happy and able to access the content that has been worked on, an easier method of grouping needs to be available.

 

 

Easy grouping+ happy players=$$$$ for Bioware.

[gurugeorge]

Are you ignoring my question every time I ask it because you can't actually answer it?

 

Question has been answered numerous times. Use the search function in the LFG that exists intelligently (i.e. type LFG for all-server LFG-ers, or clear and return for random all-server selection), and politely whisper those who are in range. If you can't get a team from the Purple people, widen the net to people who aren't flagged (lots of people forget - thats why it should retain memory of its last state).

 

Be polite and courteous, make some effort, TALK TO PEOPLE. Engage people in micro conversations.

 

And meanwhile, yes - don't spam General (because that will only annoy people who might be potential teammates), but put a message up at decent intervals, maybe once very minute or two. AND MAKE THE MESSAGE INFORMATIVE, think what it's like from a team leader's point of view, or from the point of view of someone wavering about whether to team at that moment. What level are you? What class? Any quirks people need to be aware of? It's pretty easy to draw up very short messages with a lot of info packed in them (e.g. "lvl 32 DPS JKGuardian LFG any, but esp. Alderaan Heroics")

 

Of course, you will get a few refusals, but that's only to be expected. Also, you might come across people who don't want to team and are annoyed by your whisper, but that's rarer than you'd think. (It's also why the LFG tool needs a "DND" flag as well as an LFG flag - and of course both those should remember their state between logins.)

 

If you do this, you will find, not only that it's not all that hard to find teams (except perhaps roundabout 3 or 4 am till morning), but also the quality of the players you attract by conversation will be better than players you could pick up by randomcly spamming General and nothing else. And not only that, but if you form a PUG this way, it's likely to stick through a few missions because of the team spirit you create by forming the team this way - as opposed to dissolving in embarrassment after one mission because there's no sense of camaraderie.

 

Forming teams this way is better than auto LFD - it's less convenient for a certain type of player, sure, but it's better all-round for the health fo the game.

 

Bear in mind that Blizzard RESISTED it for a long time. It's not because they were being mean, or because they didn't see some golden opportunity to make money.

[MasterSaucy]

Agree with OP, LFG tool isn't needed. BUT a LFG channel is; so the LFG spam can stop in the general chat (our server have their LFG channel up, I think the command is /cjoin <CHANNEL>).

[Taroen]

I don't know, why don't you tell me how?

 

Asked and answered... many, many times. Normally I would think that you were trolling, but I'm going to assume that you honestly didn't see it and tell you.

 

Talk to people. That's all it really amounts to. It snowballs from there. In the early game I was mostly alone because my guidlies didn't have access yet or were way ahead of me. I'd see someone ask a question in general and I would help them. I would see someone almost dead from pulling too much and help them, too. I would ask people questions of my own.

 

When I saw someone close to a heroic 4 or 2+ I would talk to them and see if they wanted to run it. Friends lists are built in this way. By the time I was on Alderaan, there was only 3 or 4 other people on the planet, because I play a lot and got ahead of the levelling curve. Unfortunately I had outlevelled most of the people I had met previously.

 

I talked to the new ones. They talked back. We ran content together.

 

Never one time have I ever stood around spamming the general chat for a group. Not once. I did miss a bit of the group content, but that's just because there is more levelling content in the game than you can do without it going grey on you. I'm not really into doing grey stuff. I will get those on my alt.

[Kurnea]

Are you ignoring my question every time I ask it because you can't actually answer it?

 

I think he finally did answer it. Seems his myriad of suggestions is 'Make small talk with random people, and then maybe they might have the same heroic quests as you and do them, and sometime later they might want to do a flashpoint with you.'

 

Course, that presumes that with all of that small talk you're able to find both a tank and healer who stay at near your level and want to do that flashpoint. Personally I've always found it more polite to make small talk after forming a group, and not making small talk for the specific purpose of getting someone on your good side.

[HoneyBoy]

If you do this, you will find, not only that it's not all that hard to find teams (except perhaps roundabout 3 or 4 am till morning), but also the quality of the players you attract by conversation will be better than players you could pick up by randomcly spamming General and nothing else. And not only that, but if you form a PUG this way, it's likely to stick through a few missions because of the team spirit you create by forming the team this way - as opposed to dissolving in embarrassment after one mission because there's no sense of camaraderie.

 

There is absolutely zero factual basis for any of this.

[maradigamer]

I better not find any of you terrified-of-easymode crowd in any of the threads complaining about the lack of macros and UI addons because if I do, you're so going to get ragged on.

[gurugeorge]

There is absolutely zero factual basis for any of this.

 

It's based on my experience leading teams in MMOs. Try it, you might like it.

[HoneyBoy]

It's based on my experience leading teams in MMOs. Try it, you might like it.

 

Like I said zero factual basis:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic

 

 

"Where an anecdote ("I know a Brazilian man who...") is used to "prove" an entire proposition or to support a bias, the availability heuristic is in play. In these instances the ease of imagining an example or the vividness and emotional impact of that example becomes more credible than actual statistical probability. Because an example is easily brought to mind or mentally "available," the single example is considered as representative of the whole rather than as just a single example in a range of data."

 

I'm not trying to be condescending, but your counter argument to LFD is literally

 

"My experiences were X therefore everyones will be X!".

Edited January 11, 2012 by HoneyBoy

[xRydisx]

yes, simple reason: So I can do other things then sit in 1 location and spam for an hour. LFG allows people to do other things while waiting. Sitting here spamming is completely retarted

[Taroen]

Taroen,

 

I only bring up gear because your arguments end the same way, the nerfing of End game heroics, so people face roll to purples. My gear is not bad for my playstyle. I have been lucky and have won most of my gear from FP's. For my level and gear it works fine. I only want ,as stated before, a pre 50 LFG tool. I do not see BW nerfing content because of a pre 50 LFG tool. What happens later I dont know. At 50 with the big guild I belong to, I see no issues running anything I want. Unless the time I log in might be an issue.

 

 

People are not crying, they just have a different opinion than you. They came to the forums to express their need and want of a LFG tool. If you listen they have valid arguments and points. I understand your fear, but I think at this stage in the game, that fear is misplaced. Nerfing content is not even on the radar yet. All of the groups I have been in have managed to clear content. Some of had wipes yes, but you try again and we win. Its challenging yet not impossible. No need to adjust or nerf it in any way. I can only speak for pre 50 content.

 

Right, but if I have a different opinion than them, then *I'm the one crying..? You don't see a contradiction, here..?

 

Yes, they're crying on the forums because they want Big Daddy Bioware to form their groups for them. I'm not going to apologize for saying that. Before 50 there aren't any hardmodes, so, you're right... The content doesn't need to be nerfed for a random group to have success doing it. But they won't be able to faceroll the hardmodes with random people who are barely paying attention, and many of them want EXACTLY that.

 

You want a pre-50 tool... Fine... I actually do too.

 

Let's just leave it at that.

[sithlordcip]

Then you will not use it when it will be released. Rest of us won't have to waste time to "socialize" by spamming /1

 

Then your playing the wrong game, this is an MMO

[Taroen]

I better not find any of you terrified-of-easymode crowd in any of the threads complaining about the lack of macros and UI addons because if I do, you're so going to get ragged on.

 

LMAO!!! Actually the UI is one of my biggest complaints. =P