Moricthian Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 How do you know...? Just because a group of people are crying the loudest doesn't mean they're in the majority. If people here spent as much time making contacts in the game as they spend whining about how they can't get groups, then they might actually... you know... Get groups Torean, did you just dimiss a claim because it lacked evidence to support it? Okay, so you understand the concept...goood...we are making progress. Earlier in the thread you claimed that 99% of the groups put together by LFG are full of uncoordinated bad players so I will ask you the same question you just asked. How do you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Torean, did you just dimiss a claim because it lacked evidence to support it? Okay, so you understand the concept...goood...we are making progress. Earlier in the thread you claimed that 99% of the groups put together by LFG are full of uncoordinated bad players so I will ask you the same question you just asked. How do you know? No, I didn't. I think you need to learn how to read. Go back and check again. I'll wait for ya. Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krookie Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 How do you know...? Just because a group of people are crying the loudest doesn't mean they're in the majority. If people here spent as much time making contacts in the game as they spend whining about how they can't get groups, then they might actually... you know... Get groups. Kind of hard to make contacts or even communicate with people in general when chat is full of: Player1: LFG Athiss RDPS Player2: LFM HS need healer and tank Player3: LF1M Mando raiders need tank Player4: I used to LFG then I took an arrow in the knee. Player1: LFG Athiss RDPS Player2: LFM HS need healer and tank Player3: LF1M Mando raiders need tank Player5: go back 2 WoW troll! Player1: LFG Athiss RDPS Player1: LFG Athiss RDPS Player1: LFG Athiss RDPS Player3: LF1M Mando raiders need tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrandaa Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 PUGs always have a high chance of sucking. The introduction of a DF isn't going to make people magically play worse. Not that it matters anyway. You can do Warzones to get Columi gear. Flashpoints are utterly pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 If they were getting groups, they wouldn't be here. They'd be playing the game. Last time I checked, it isnt very possible to get a group for ANYONE if you aren't even in the game. Not even for me. Well... Maybe for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Kind of hard to make contacts or even communicate with people in general when chat is full of: Player1: LFG Athiss RDPS Player2: LFM HS need healer and tank Player3: LF1M Mando raiders need tank Player4: I used to LFG then I took an arrow in the knee. Player1: LFG Athiss RDPS Player2: LFM HS need healer and tank Player3: LF1M Mando raiders need tank Player5: go back 2 WoW troll! Player1: LFG Athiss RDPS Player1: LFG Athiss RDPS Player1: LFG Athiss RDPS Player3: LF1M Mando raiders need tank If your idea of socializing and making contacts starts with a /1 you're doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FallenKnightGX Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) WARNING LONG POST This debate has gone on for 100 something pages.... Having played WoW before / after the LFG / LFR system and having played FFXI (the ultimate form your own group game where you could spend literally all day making a group and that group usually stayed together for HOURS), I just want to bring up some points that are either buried at this point or just missed. For this I want to start a Pro / Con list. Please feel free to add onto it. Pros of No LFG / LFR Systems: -You meet more people on your server. -You end up being with the people in your group longer (through wipes and such as mentioned before). -People are generally more kind to one another knowing that they may have to deal with the consequences of their actions later on (reputation with the server community). Cons of No LFG / LFR Systems: -Re-building a group involves going out to look for another player back in the general area. Depending on the content this could take seconds to minutes or longer. With LFG / LFR it means waiting a max of 5 minutes (in WoW at least) for a new player to take their place. On average (based off personal experience) it's anywhere from seconds to 3 minutes. -Kicking a player becomes a larger issue. A much larger issue without the LFG/LFR system. Bad players / Griefers / Ninjas exist in MMOs. People are more reluctant to kick such players when it's harder to find replacements (that being said both with AND without this system good players are still victims of being kicked by a group). -Need to actively seek other players to group with. The opposite of this is with the system in place a player can be questing / chatting / afking / crafting / reading forums / etc until their LFG queue pops. -This con goes with the one above it. Poor reputations can be formed from forming groups with players only on your server. Good players being black listed doesn't happen often, but it can. Worse, some servers become obsessed with bad players to the point those players quit the game. Many people who play the game are disabled or are children ~ People who I don't expect to be good to begin with yet are still enjoyable to play with as they are kind / respectable in the game. Unfortunately, MMO players are harsh when it comes to others - too often players assume everyone is like them when in reality they're not which results in an otherwise nice people being black listed off an entire server. I've seen this far to much in WoW pre LFR / LFG and in FFXI in general. With these systems in place, these players can have a new start with each group and not have to worry about being remembered negatively. -Allows the General Channel to be used for things other than LFG. This was a problem that plagued WoW and FFXI for quite some time. With LFG / LFR WoW's Trade chat has seen a reduction in it being used as a LFG tool (more an actual tool for trading / guild searching and some minor raid searching). -(Edited Addtion) One of the main reasons the LFG tool exists in WoW is a reason many people in this thread are over looking. As the game progresses both in age and content, the older content will be less played as a result. The regular players will have more and more end game characters with little reason to go back and experience older content (especially with newer content always being released in MMOs). That being said, SW:TOR is a ways from that but with no LFG system, lower level players will eventually find themselves without a way to gain groups for the lower level content or certain areas which aren't as appreciated as others may be harder to find content for (i.e. Occulas in WoW) without the aid of a tool to get people from other servers. In short, yes there are enough players to make it easy to group anywhere in the game right now (it's a new game so of course) but give it months / years. It's best to put this system into place while there aren't expansions worth of content to worry about adjusting to the system. I am sure there are other Pros to not having the LFG / LFR system in place and other Cons. Again, please feel free to add to this list. I feel this is the most productive way of going about this instead of arguing about semantics. If you feel one of my Pros or Cons doesn't deserve the spot it is in, then please put it as a Pro / Con else where with a notation as to why. Happy Debating! Edited January 12, 2012 by FallenKnightGX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChannelledAnger Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I am sorry but your crazy to not want a DF * thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeoHTime Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I'm a player who loves socialising and playing with other people in game, which is why i'm playing an MMO, not a single player game. I also like to be frequently challenged by hard group content, and demonstrate my ability to play well with a group of people, instead of mindlessly grinding through faceroll solo content. For those reasons, i think a LFG tool is a great idea, because it would help bring people together and encourage people to socialise and run group content together for a challenge. Since this is obviously a very popular feature and has been demonstrated to work well by the most succesful and best designed MMO in the history of the genre, i think it would be ridiculous for bioware to listen to this tiny minority (Taroen) of forum crusaders who want to feel special by rebelling against obvious wisdom. With that being said, lets get this tool sorted post-haste, in order to improve the server community and encourage social activities such as grouping and clearing challenging content, instead of everyone grinding solo in instanced worlds or sitting in fleet spamming /1. Thanks. *****es. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayaleith Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 There should not be a debate since this would be an optional feature. This game needs LFG for sure but it needs so many other things in order to be decent that one cannot even make a priority list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moricthian Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Last time I checked, it isnt very possible to get a group for ANYONE if you aren't even in the game. Not even for me. Well... Maybe for me. You absolutely did: You can claim it all you want to but if they put up a random instance finder tool, and then 99% of the people can't complete it because they've never learned to cooperate with other people, or even how to play their own class, then the content will get nerfed to hell and back to make it more to their level. Seriously, learn how to provide support and evidence before you say things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartrt Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 LFG is needed. For those that don't want it then don't use it The Original OP has their view of not wanting it, but then when the majority of replies came back as wanting it they get all defensive. LFG let's you get on with questing whilst still being able to do flashpoints or heroics. I don't want to spam all day long for groups. Also a lot of guilds are small on swtor so there's not always enough people on with the necessary classes or levels to group with IMHO no LFG is a major oversight, it's not like they had to invent something new, just implement something similar to WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrandaa Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 PUGs always have a high chance of sucking. The introduction of a DF isn't going to make people magically play worse. Not that it matters anyway. You can do Warzones to get Columi gear. Flashpoints are utterly pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevid Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Not to mention the fact that the who window only displays like 10 chars for the LFG comment. Seriously?! I can't believe someone actually designed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 You absolutely did: Seriously, learn how to provide support and evidence before you say things. I absolutely did NOT. You seriously need to learn to read. I will quote it again for you. You can claim it all you want to but if they put up a random instance finder tool, and then 99% of the people can't complete it because they've never learned to cooperate with other people, or even how to play their own class, then the content will get nerfed to hell and back to make it more to their level. See those words there...? Read them again and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 LFG is needed. For those that don't want it then don't use it The Original OP has their view of not wanting it, but then when the majority of replies came back as wanting it they get all defensive. LFG let's you get on with questing whilst still being able to do flashpoints or heroics. I don't want to spam all day long for groups. Also a lot of guilds are small on swtor so there's not always enough people on with the necessary classes or levels to group with IMHO no LFG is a major oversight, it's not like they had to invent something new, just implement something similar to WoW. Which is the EXACT system that many people don't want, because it dumbs down the game content beyond all reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moricthian Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I absolutely did NOT. You seriously need to learn to read. I will quote it again for you. See those words there...? Read them again and again. Here's the point. Why do you assume 99% of groups will be uncoordinated bad players? There is literally no evidence what so ever for your comment. The fact that your post was in hypothetical language doesn't change the fact that your arguments are nothing but a giant biased assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moricthian Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Which is the EXACT system that many people don't want, because it dumbs down the game content beyond all reason. ^ evidence plz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeoHTime Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 You can claim it all you want to but IF THEY DONT put up a random instance finder tool, AND THEN 99% of the people can't complete dungeons because they've never learned to cooperate with other people, or even how to play their own class, DUE TO NEVER GETTING A GROUP, then the content will get nerfed to hell and back to make it more to their level. Do we see how this argument works now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krookie Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) If your idea of socializing and making contacts starts with a /1 you're doing it wrong. Where should it start? Here? The nonexistent realm forums? Some people are fortunate enough to play with family members and real life friends, some are in a nice guild. Judging by the constant LFG spam I see in fleet, most people aren't. Edit: Oh and lol at the "LFG tool dumbs down content" claim. If that's not an argument pulled out of a certain orifice, I don't know what is. Edited January 12, 2012 by krookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyonel Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Here is why.... I played WoW for 7 years. Groups used to be great. Then an LFG tool was introduced. After that it was hard to keep a group together because the first time everyone died people would drop group for a new one. After the LFG tool was introduced people in groups also turned into asses about jsut about everything that didn't go their way. So in regards to an LFG tool, I say hell no. EDIT: I NEVER have a hard time find a group, and I'm not in a guild. you're right we can just stand there shouting "LvL 50 JK Tank LFG" repeatedly, so much better than a LFG tool/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrandaa Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 you're right we can just stand there shouting "LvL 50 JK Tank LFG" repeatedly, so much better than a LFG tool/ That's community, bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Here's the point. Why do you assume 99% of groups will be uncoordinated bad players? There is literally no evidence what so ever for your comment. The fact that your post was in hypothetical language doesn't change the fact that your arguments are nothing but a giant biased assumption. Random groups dropped in by the finder are inherently not going to be as good, because even if they all know their class, they have likely never played with each other and don't know each other's tendencies and style. Also given the fact that a good portion of the people getting dropped into groups really don't play very well or cooperate with others, that puts the LFG people at a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage when running content. And when that content gets failed too much (and it will) the nerf bats come a-swinging. And then it results with all the LFG people knowing how to do is faceroll through stuff, because that's what it has been tuned to, and that's all they end up doing. Even good players develop bad tendencies when they get involved. People that get involved in all that faceroll crap end up coming to raids and doing stupid things then didn't usually do before. Keep the content as hard as it is or make it harder (because it should have been harder in the first place) and I will be fine with a tool like the one you want, but I don't see that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkloves Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Here is why.... I played WoW for 7 years. Groups used to be great. Then an LFG tool was introduced. After that it was hard to keep a group together because the first time everyone died people would drop group for a new one. After the LFG tool was introduced people in groups also turned into asses about jsut about everything that didn't go their way. So in regards to an LFG tool, I say hell no. EDIT: I NEVER have a hard time find a group, and I'm not in a guild. I've played WoW since closed beta, and I disagree with you. For starters, this isn't WoW. This game has just alittle over 1 million people, not 14 million, not 10 million, and not 3 million like that launched with WoW. Even blizzard had only set up enough server capacity and servers for 1 million. The first week was terrible, and people were lucky to log in, let alone find a group. Here is why the LFG tool is a good thing: 1. This isn't WoW, swtor is far different. There is social ranking some care about and some don't. Some people have came to this group with friends and done ALOT of social ranking so far and not even 50 yet. It doesn't really hurt to make this tool for social ranking puposes. 2. I've played both jedi and sith side, sith have a FAR easier time finding people by simply typing in general. Jedi well... pvp statistics already show a landslide against the jedi side. We have far less people, that means harder to get things done. 3. The LFG can only be done near the place in question right now. The Tool allows the ability to LFG for things in and around whatever you are doing. So I can't get the people for a FP I'm doing and I've tried in general. Wouldn't it be logical to go quest or something while in a LFG tool? I've used enough logic today... I'll move on to dinner and I'm sure the trolls will strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meluna Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Hello, all! This thread has gone over 1,000 posts and has been restarted. You can find the new version linked below. Thank you! http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=165027 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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