wifeaggro Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Why did they choose a engine that is so heavily instanced instead of building their own like Blizzard did? Im just wondering because I keep hearing about all the money they spent and the heart of this game the main engine seems very cheap. Any reason for this? The hero engine was a military application used for Mil spec sims. Bioware thought the engine woould be a good pick. I think the engine today is a good solid MMO engine. in 2006 when they leased it then rewrote it. well not so much. its why your seeing all these issues with grpahics and performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abishe Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 *shudder* ewwwwwwwww eehh, Gamebryo is a versitle engine wich can do many thing's, sure aint the best compare to Graphical engine (Unreal Engine). Fallout 3 is also Gamebryo engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 eehh, Gamebryo is a versitle engine wich can do many thing's, sure aint the best compare to Graphical engine (Unreal Engine). Fallout 3 is also Gamebryo engine So is Skyrim, Bethesda just thought they could get around the "bad blood" surrounding Gamebryo by renaming it Creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avrose Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Why did they choose a engine that is so heavily instanced instead of building their own like Blizzard did? Im just wondering because I keep hearing about all the money they spent and the heart of this game the main engine seems very cheap. Any reason for this? COMMON FALLACIES IN REASONING 1. FAULTY CAUSE: (post hoc ergo propter hoc) mistakes correlation or association for causation, by assuming that because one thing follows another it was caused by the other. example: A black cat crossed Babbs' path yesterday and, sure enough, she was involved in an automobile accident later that same afternoon. example: The introduction of sex education courses at the high school level has resulted in increased promiscuity among teens. A recent study revealed that the number of reported cases of STDs (sexually transmitted diseases) was significantly higher for high schools that offered courses in sex education than for high schools that did not. 2. SWEEPING GENERALIZATION: (dicto simpliciter) assumes that what is true of the whole will also be true of the part, or that what is true in most instances will be true in all instances. example: Muffin must be rich or have rich parents, because she belongs to ZXQ, and ZXQ is the richest sorority on campus. example: I'd like to hire you, but you're an ex-felon and statistics show that 80% of ex-felons recidivate. 3. HASTY GENERALIZATION: bases an inference on too small a sample, or on an unrepresentative sample. Often, a single example or instance is used as the basis for a broader generalization. example: All of those movie stars are really rude. I asked Kevin Costner for his autograph in a restaurant in Westwood the other evening, and he told me to get lost. example: Pit Bulls are actually gentle, sweet dogs. My next door neighbor has one and his dog loves to romp and play with all the kids in the neighborhood! I hope this isn't too much to shut some peoples question about the hero engine up who do not have all the facts and do the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhazesx Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 It actually runs a system trick to function as mutl threaded by running two .exe's at once, but yes, the lack of native multi threading is a weakness. As for games over the last 6 years? Multi core systems were really only popular the last 4-5 years, so most folks weren't writing a ton od multi threaded games previously. Thank you I was wondering why I seen 2 SWTOr exes running. I thought it was a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrmexaw Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/heroengine-meets-starwars/ First quote is from article, second quote is from Heroengine dev in comment section of article. This article read like a denial of responsibility from hero engine crew about how bioware handled their product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerandar Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Thank you I was wondering why I seen 2 SWTOr exes running. I thought it was a bug. pretty sure it also has to do with the remoterender.dll in the retailclient folder, notice how we dont have the models on our computers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trublmaker Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 This thread must be wonderful comic relief for Bioware Engineers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrmexaw Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 pretty sure it also has to do with the remoterender.dll in the retailclient folder, notice how we dont have the models on our computers? yes you have the models on your computer they are embedded in the .tor files inside the assets folder.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 This article read like a denial of responsibility from hero engine crew about how bioware handled their product. Wouldn't you in the same situation? You also won't find EAware denying any of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) This thread must be wonderful comic relief for Bioware Engineers. Like any of them could understand half of it. pretty sure it also has to do with the remoterender.dll in the retailclient folder, notice how we dont have the models on our computers? Remote render issue has been debunked, the models are on the computer, and EAware even had Reid make a statement to fully deny the remote render theory. Also, it was a pretty sketchy theory at best to begin with, as we would have all had astronomical bandwidth usage issues. Edited January 15, 2012 by Zorvan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twixted Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I dont know much about the engine except what i read from their brochure. I am betting it was used for low development costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 They used hero engine because it was cheap and because it allowed them to make content faster aka cheaper. Its all about the money not the quality. If they wanted quality they would have used cry engine, unreal, etc etc. But they would have had to spent alot more developing those engines and content would have taken longer for each content update. So they took the fast content bad engine route. And yes hero engine is a bad engine when lined up with the other engines out there being used to create new mmo's. Go look at mmo's in developement like bland and soul, tera, gw2... all of those use modern engines and they look like it. Swtor well they missed the modern graphics and smooth gameplay boat. But hey they got a bunch of famous people to voice act! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevid Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I guarantee you, whatever complaints you have with SWTOR, it has absolutely nothing to do with the Hero Engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTijger Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 They used hero engine because it was cheap and because it allowed them to make content faster aka cheaper. Its all about the money not the quality. If they wanted quality they would have used cry engine, unreal, etc etc. But they would have had to spent alot more developing those engines and content would have taken longer for each content update. So they took the fast content bad engine route. And yes hero engine is a bad engine when lined up with the other engines out there being used to create new mmo's. Go look at mmo's in developement like bland and soul, tera, gw2... all of those use modern engines and they look like it. Swtor well they missed the modern graphics and smooth gameplay boat. But hey they got a bunch of famous people to voice act! You're making stuff up, cryengine 1 was used by one game, Aion, and they had to severly dumb it down to get it to work, Cryengine 3 is not used by any MMO in release, GW2 is in closed beta so you have no clue what the final will look like and the same applies to the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTijger Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I dont know much about the engine except what i read from their brochure. I am betting it was used for low development costs. Ofcourse, after all they spent peanuts on developing this game and I am sure the price of any other engine was tens of millions, right...right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianoia Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 You're making stuff up, cryengine 1 was used by one game, Aion, and they had to severly dumb it down to get it to work, Cryengine 3 is not used by any MMO in release, GW2 is in closed beta so you have no clue what the final will look like and the same applies to the others. Everyone who bashes or complains about the game engine is making stuff up. Unless you had access to the code, you wouldn't know what the engine's limitations and strength are. I hear disseminating lies and fabrications based on assumptions and speculation is the knew truth, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) You're making stuff up, cryengine 1 was used by one game, Aion, and they had to severly dumb it down to get it to work, Cryengine 3 is not used by any MMO in release, GW2 is in closed beta so you have no clue what the final will look like and the same applies to the others. Entropia Universe currently use CryEngine 2. Archeage uses CryEngine 3. Not released true, but plenty of closed beta footage Start at the 2:30 mark and you'll see an ingame, REAL gameplay, castle siege. Edited January 15, 2012 by Zorvan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) You're making stuff up, cryengine 1 was used by one game, Aion, and they had to severly dumb it down to get it to work, Cryengine 3 is not used by any MMO in release, GW2 is in closed beta so you have no clue what the final will look like and the same applies to the others. I am not making stuff up lol. Tera = unreal engine. Aion (better graphics then swtor and its 4 years old) = cryengine regardless of what they did to it. For the record they have evolved their version of cry 1 into something much closer to cry 2. With dof effects, HDRI lighting and shadowing and things of that nature. Blade and soul = unreal engine as well GW2 = A game engine soley developed by arena net for the games art direction and uses the havok physics engine. I didn't make anything up I said if they wanted to develop the game on a good engine they could have they chose the faster cheaper route. Tell me where I made anything up. People in the heroengine forums were even skeptical about what they were doing with the engine and swtor.... those threads have mysteriously disappeared gee I wonder why lol. Edited January 15, 2012 by Barracudastr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincethejedi Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 This thread must be wonderful comic relief for Bioware Engineers. True. BTW, I would guess that in a typical game with proprietary physics engine, about 99.9% of resources must go to engine development. I find it hilarious when people say things like "Oh, just make your own engine" like it's buying milk at the grocery store. I don't claim to be a computer scientist, but I can promise that most people could not even comprehend what goes into a physics engine, let alone make opinions on BWs business decisions to use Hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomag Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 lol it's not instanced because of the hero engine. It's instanced because that's how they designed the game. Have you ever used the Hero developers kit? Have you ever wrote your own 3d engine? Have you ever ran a multi-million dollar company? Sorry to put this so bluntly, call it tough love. If you haven't done these things *** do you know? Lol, ok, how about this ? Devs, your engine and graphics are awesome. Too bad the game sucks. I don't have to be a computer wizard to realize the engine is bad. I'm sure the devs had their reasons but, since they are trying to sell this game to me, it is MY impression that matters in the end, not the efforts of the devs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) True. BTW, I would guess that in a typical game with proprietary physics engine, about 99.9% of resources must go to engine development. I find it hilarious when people say things like "Oh, just make your own engine" like it's buying milk at the grocery store. I don't claim to be a computer scientist, but I can promise that most people could not even comprehend what goes into a physics engine, let alone make opinions on BWs business decisions to use Hero. When even the engines own developers were telling them it wasn't ready in any way, shape, or form to be used and EAware bought it anyway, it's pretty easy to form opinions why they bought it. Greed ( cheapness ) being the top one. I'd also add a not insignificant amount of stupidity in the decision making process as well. Edited January 15, 2012 by Zorvan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decampo Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) I guarantee you, whatever complaints you have with SWTOR, it has absolutely nothing to do with the Hero Engine. If it's nothing to do with engine, and that could well be the case, are we assume then that it has been poorly coded by the developers? Some games perform better than expected when you consider how good they look, such as BF3. This doesn't look great (and damn right awful in terms of shadows and armor textures) and the performance is average at best. For me it is absolutely the engine that it to blame. Having said that, there's no doubt improvements will be made over the coming months. The problem is it needs to improve substantially to be competitive long term in my opinion, because I'd be very surprised if Guild Wars 2 suffers from some of the problems this game has. For example, the well known ability delay, graphical issues as above plus grass textures popping up all over the place (particularly bad on Belsavis), huge performance drop on the Fleet and Warzones. Also, I was running Fraps earlier and the game has a tendency to hitch or stutter very slightly even when the frames are high (above 50FPS). At least it does for me yet games like BF3 on high settings are super smooth. I want this game to be epic, as I'm sure other members do who have posted negative comments, but I just don't feel it's anywhere near that as a complete package currently. Edited January 15, 2012 by decampo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 They chose it because their sales people really pulled one over on BioWare. They convinced them they could turn this thing out quicker and cheaper than if they developed their own. It ended up taking longer and costing more IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Whats funny is swtor took 80 mil to make and the graphics and feeling of it are meh. Nothing up to date if you will. While mmo's like Aion and others cost 15-25 million. And they look better and play better. Why is it a company with a 80 mil budget cant make a engine with updated graphics and gameplay thats smooth? Very poor business and developement swtor basically wasted millions for a subpar game with its story and questing w/ VA being its only saving grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts