Dirty Fighting Scoundrel Useless

[Vicid]

The tree is useless.

 

Bottom line. What's the point of making a medium range tree if you're only upper hand generator is a melee ability. Can't kill anything without wounding shots, and its hard as hell to use.

 

Yep. No way to get upper hand unless you get in melee range. At all. Totally.

 

Maybe it is better this way... keep playing scrapper.

[Cycloptichorn]

Yep. No way to get upper hand unless you get in melee range. At all. Totally.

 

Maybe it is better this way... keep playing scrapper.

 

Well, he forgot that it procs when you kill someone. But, that's a highly unreliable method for getting UH. My blaster whip does it every single time.

[torhent]

I'm not sure what your point is here. Dirty Fighting meshes better with Sawbones than Scrapper does. Your hots crit more often and you can kite, not to mention that you have a lot more utility on the dirty fighting line.

 

And as to 'get into warzones with a really good scrapper' argument goes... well.. that's a little odd. If they die four times they're doing it wrong? Shall I keep trying to compare myself with scrappers until one of them has more DPS then me and only THEN have I found a good comparison?

 

*Shrug*

 

Its called finding someone who can play scrapper. A lot of clickers and back pedallers are in the game. Playing a stealther actually requires good reflexes and the ability to play the game. A good way to judge a scrapper is to measure how often they die in a warzone. A well played Scrapper is going to be in the 200K to 300K range and few if any deaths in a warzone once they hit 40+.

 

Got me man, you say you can beat a scrapper, I say you can't. Most other scoundrels who play DPS are going to agree that Dirty Fighting is gimp as hell. We aren't on the same server so I can't simply log into a warzone and beat you myself, or else I would. Just look on your server for a well played scoundrel and then look at their damage. Most likely they are going to be playing as a scrapper.

 

Good luck playing Dirty Fighting, keep milking that stone. If you are as good as you write you are, then swtich to Scrapper, learn how to play stealther, and you'll increase your warzone damage by 30% easily.

[Turtlebread]

Its called finding someone who can play scrapper. A lot of clickers and back pedallers are in the game. Playing a stealther actually requires good reflexes and the ability to play the game. A good way to judge a scrapper is to measure how often they die in a warzone. A well played Scrapper is going to be in the 200K to 300K range and few if any deaths in a warzone once they hit 40+.

 

Got me man, you say you can beat a scrapper, I say you can't. Most other scoundrels who play DPS are going to agree that Dirty Fighting is gimp as hell. We aren't on the same server so I can't simply log into a warzone and beat you myself, or else I would. Just look on your server for a well played scoundrel and then look at their damage. Most likely they are going to be playing as a scrapper.

 

Good luck playing Dirty Fighting, keep milking that stone. If you are as good as you write you are, then swtich to Scrapper, learn how to play stealther, and you'll increase your warzone damage by 30% easily.

 

 

Don't listen to this guy. I don't even know why he's looking at these boards, he said he has already unsubbed.

 

This Lethality-specced operative (mirror of DF tree) seems to have NO problems doing really good damage in WZs, and even broke 600k in a game with a ton of healing:

 

Ive been playing Lethality since i hit 50, i dont have full champ (so much bad luck with bags) and i dont have biochem (overpowered). Still, the numbers im putting out dwarf yours.

 

Nothing out of the ordinary for me here...

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/3/score1q.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/440/score2l.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/46/score3a.jpg/

 

Loldmg game against a premade that dominated us with tanks and healers...

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/407/score4w.jpg/

 

A "better than average" game contribution wise...

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/535/score5.jpg/

 

People will come around to Lethality, it might just not happen till Conceal is nerfed (and it will be).

 

Came from this thread here:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=190692

[Auxili]

Gunslinger synergises with this tree, scoundrel does not. Period

[Gelich]

Well, he forgot that it procs when you kill someone. But, that's a highly unreliable method for getting UH. My blaster whip does it every single time.

 

You can spec into Exploratory Surgery. In fact, I think it's a must.

[MaglorArcanist]

You can spec into Exploratory Surgery. In fact, I think it's a must.

 

Healing when catching someone to regen UH?

Are you serius? i do this only to prepare on a pugnacy before enter the fight, but it's a patch non a solution.

Someone need to watch the scoundrel part of dirty fight and give us a better chance to generate upper hand.

A upper hand on emorralging blast can be a choice, or a 50% chance on wounding shoots.

[CommandoPower]

I beat Dirty Fighting specced scoundrels in warzones by 100K damage as a scrapper. Whenever I see a scoundrel using that spec, I LMFAO.

 

Shrap Grenade is the only benefit to using the ability and to maximize your DPS you have to hit groups preferably of three people. While the grenade is ticking you can't stealth. So you are essentially fighting in the open for people to completely destroy you. You have a 3 second delay to apply vital shot, sharp grenade and hemorrhaging blast before you can apply your main damage wounding shot. During that time you are taking at least 3 seconds of damage. You are going to have to apply 2 wounding shots to get a kill. AND you are going to need the energy to do it.

 

Sharp = 20 energy

Vital Shot = 20 energy

Hemorrhaging blast = 10 energy

Pistol whip (to get upper hand proc to do wounding shot) = 15 energy

75 energy spent in 4 seconds

 

Now you apply your main damage:

Wounding Shot = 25 energy

 

Congratulations, in 5 seconds you just spent 100 energy to get 1 kill assuming you didn't get CC'd. Most likely you are at 30 to 40 energy now and you are trying to find someone to pistol whip to try to use pugnacity again, UNSTEALTHED and waiting to be killed.

 

Dirty Fighting for Scoundrel is one of the most horridly designed skill trees I've ever seen.

 

note: If my energy numbers are off, sorry I uninstalled SWTOR a few weeks back so I don't have all of the numbers up I'm doing this off memory.

 

Honestly you should have pugilism running and your DOT's on other people should be returning you a good amount of energy if your built for a decent amount of crit. Energy management shouldn't be an issue for a decent player. The occasional time you insane burst yourself to zero and need energy NAO, cool head is available.

 

With 2 points in healing tree you can have pugnacity running before most fights AND enter the fight with 0-2 upperhands depending on the time you had to prepare.

 

If your talking about solo fights? Ya, guess what, we are better are team fights. It's what we are built for. A general weakening and pressure damage while still being able to squish somebody.

 

Dirty Fighting is a crap spec, there is no way around it. Its for people who can't play as a stealther.

 

It's not supposed to be a stealther spec but stealth and a stealth escape button (after cleanse) works perfectly with our spec as well. Allowing us to lay down the DOTs and get the heck out of dodge if things get HOT, by the time we get distance or pop or anything our energy is back up from DOT crits.

 

I played with no energy management abilities outside of the random pugilism and cool head till end game specifically to hone my own personal energy management skills BEFORE I picked up the nifty extras. It didn't stop me from topping damage and kill charts, or being horribly effective, even when 50's around (barring the really well geared ones).

 

Everyone has to learn energy management, except for maybe sorcs/sages lol.

[CommandoPower]

I was never topped by Dirty Fighting in a Warzone nor did I ever see Dirty Fighting top any Warzone Chart. Before I unsubscribed, I was at 62 Valor. Could you reliably break at least 300K damage AND have zero deaths? I was able to with Scrapper.

 

The only reason you were able to accomplish that is being well geared picking on lower geared players while simultaneously abusing an imbalanced spec for PVP. Even equally geared you can do significant damage to every player before they can even react UNLESS they pop their CC break. Even then you can escape or vanish if you know they can actually FIGHT you.

 

Furthermore scrapper damage values are highly inflated. They wander around in stealth and look for the people with low hp totals, squishes they know they can flatten, or people already being attacked. It's quite easy to farm damage when you can pick the targets least likely to survive or even be able to attack you once.

 

You know how a DF scoundrel beats that scrapper? By limiting their effectiveness. Your disappearing act and cleanse can not be up all the time. If there is a lame scrapper in the WZ I simply make sure if they are nearby ever that I dedicate most of my attention to making their life a living heck. Can I fully stop you? Nah. Can I shut you down from ownage and make you die to people alot more? Yes, yes I can.

 

In fact I'm one of the best classes at being able to passively counter you. Guess what, I'm also smart enough to blaster volley you after you cleanse. Always, always, ALWAYS save an UH for that when at all possible (unless kill is garaunteed) vs a vanisher your in closer range to. It's on my side mouse button for a reason. It's not garaunteed, but I'm already going to be making you use your vanish a good bit more, every one I can pop you out of is just bonus .

 

Gunslinger synergises with this tree, scoundrel does not. Period

 

I find scoundrel has more utility, objective control, the ability to backup heal and keep your main healers up, good energy management, etc. Nice little panic button doesn't hurt either.