Why are Imperials so much stronger than Repubs?

[Rancorzealot]

Don't let the Sith Troll you, it's obviously not balanced or mirrored correctly. Republic have animations that take longer to cast or have to be standing still where sith can move at their will. Also look at Cooldowns you will see that Sith sided moves with have shorter than ours. (There is a post on here regarding all the indifferences)

[Abanoth]

They're not impossible to beat, they just work together more than Republic players. I pug warzones as Republic and when we get rofl-stomped it's usually because no one does anything but ***** in the ops channel about how bad the group/faction is. All the times we won were when the team was communcating and working together to prioritze objectives over kills.

 

That's not to say we don't lose when we're communicating, but it's usually still pretty close compared to when nobody talks and just runs around aimlessly trying to farm kills.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Abanoth

[Hypernetic]

Don't let the Sith Troll you, it's obviously not balanced or mirrored correctly. Republic have animations that take longer to cast or have to be standing still where sith can move at their will. Also look at Cooldowns you will see that Sith sided moves with have shorter than ours. (There is a post on here regarding all the indifferences)

 

The opposite is also true. Tracer missile has a much longer travel time than grav round, for example.

[Kengaro]

I might have miscounted

 

But basically what I meant to say is, you have one door being heavily guarded and the other left practically wide open.

that's actually the the best tactic on voidstar, you plant your whole defender group in mid, and acculerate it to the side with more opponents than the other....

in the end you ll have at each side at least 1-2 guys, while the biggest part of the group's constantlly running from door a to door b while killing the attackers (well healers tend to run more....)

 

A split would be a better tactic, but a split is quite hard to play and with a random group its most of the time just useless... (coz as split you should be able to play 4v6 and hold your ground till you get backup)

 

@topic:

....

I'm fine atm... - as republic player

[greenmartin]

They are cloned but badly

 

Freezing Force : Chilling Scream

 

JK Blade Storm has a wind up time (the jedi visibly pulls his hand back) and a travel time (both moves are 10m), SW Force Scream deals damage immediately regardless of range

 

Jedi Consular / Sith Inquisitor:

 

Project (Cons) doesn't damage until projectile hits, SI Shock does damage instantly.

 

Smuggler / Imperial Agent:

 

The talent Accomplished Sawbones (Scoundrel) provides a 5%/10%/15% crit healing bonus opposed to Accomplished Doctor (Op) 10%/20%/30%.

 

Accomplished Sawbones / Ingame : Accomplished Doctor

 

Flash Bang (IA) has a 60 sec CD, Flash Grenade (Smuggler) has a 90 sec CD.

 

Flash Bang : Flash Grenade / Ingame

 

Debilitate can be used while moving, Dirty kick forces the player to stop.

 

Smuggler Sab Charge takes time to get to the target, IA Explosive Probe hits target instantly

 

 

That is just a few of the issues we have right now. Things need fixed.

 

 

 

Yeah that's definitely not all of them.

 

Trooper Mortar Volley and Full Auto is also gimped relative to the Bounty Hunter "mirror" skills. In that they either do not activate properly or are interruptable unlike the "mirror"

Tho I believe in that case it is at least a bug and not designed to be unequal.

 

Funny to hear all the Empire bandwagon jumpers try to shame OP when they have no clue what is going on.

 

Yeah you picked Imp because they look "cool"..

Because the black leather gay bar look is so in right now among the kids...

No.

[Alcarinn]

just learn to play simple...

 

yesterday on republic side i had 10/18 wins.... try and talk to people what to do at the start....

 

if you want to play solo play 1v1 duels... pvp is team sport

[Repefe]

They are not stronger ... they have higher levels.

[dannythefool]

Yes, the abilities aren't mirrored 100% perfectly.

 

Yet, when my side loses, I usually see why we lost, and I don't think I ever thought "why he must have been waiting for a longer cooldown than his mirror opponent has on the same ability, or we would have won this match". Usually, I think something along the lines of "why you no shoot the guy at the door" or "why you no guard the turrets" or "why is everybody standing at spawn so their ball carrier can force jump right to the finish line". Yeah, sometimes it's clearly because their team has more higher level players, too. But most of the time it's lack of experience, not balancing. In fact, focusing on some individual, seemingly overpowered abilities clearly shows the problem. None of the warzones are about winning 1v1 fights, even though you get a medal for it.

[Kesal]

Yes, the abilities aren't mirrored 100% perfectly.

 

Yet, when my side loses, I usually see why we lost, and I don't think I ever thought "why he must have been waiting for a longer cooldown than his mirror opponent has on the same ability, or we would have won this match". Usually, I think something along the lines of "why you no shoot the guy at the door" or "why you no guard the turrets" or "why is everybody standing at spawn so their ball carrier can force jump right to the finish line". Yeah, sometimes it's clearly because their team has more higher level players, too. But most of the time it's lack of experience, not balancing. In fact, focusing on some individual, seemingly overpowered abilities clearly shows the problem. None of the warzones are about winning 1v1 fights, even though you get a medal for it.

 

This is wisdom in the form of text, thank you

[Nikodeamas]

Yes, the abilities aren't mirrored 100% perfectly.

 

Yet, when my side loses, I usually see why we lost, and I don't think I ever thought "why he must have been waiting for a longer cooldown than his mirror opponent has on the same ability, or we would have won this match". Usually, I think something along the lines of "why you no shoot the guy at the door" or "why you no guard the turrets" or "why is everybody standing at spawn so their ball carrier can force jump right to the finish line". Yeah, sometimes it's clearly because their team has more higher level players, too. But most of the time it's lack of experience, not balancing. In fact, focusing on some individual, seemingly overpowered abilities clearly shows the problem. None of the warzones are about winning 1v1 fights, even though you get a medal for it.

 

 

I agree with this as well.

 

Although, on the other hand.. as a die hard republic player (very unfortunate ) i would like to see these issues looked at and possibly fixed. I would even rather see the exact same spells with the exact same graphic if need be, than any inequality. /shrug

[Cameirus]

You realize that every class is a clone, right?

 

The Jedi Sages have an attack that is exactly identical to Force Lightning, just with a different animation (think it throws lots of small rocks).

 

There's no stronger side. Everything is mirrored.

 

not quite true.

 

 

Roll a trooper and a bounty hunter and then tell me they are mirrored.

 

Sure they appear to be, but look at how long trooper abilities take to go off compared to bounty hunter equivalents and how trooper moves suffer more pushback and are impacted by ability delay from animations to the point where intsants can be interrupted.

 

I've got both BH and Trooper characters, and BH is just so much smoother.

 

Its also true, to a less extent for consulars/inquisitors and smugglers/Agents. Not sure about JK/SW as I find the mechanics of the class awful to play.

[Orangerascal]

It's because republics are the more casual players. Oh get a premade, you'll win more.

[DarkestDaemon]

that's actually the the best tactic on voidstar, you plant your whole defender group in mid, and acculerate it to the side with more opponents than the other....

in the end you ll have at each side at least 1-2 guys, while the biggest part of the group's constantlly running from door a to door b while killing the attackers (well healers tend to run more....)

 

A split would be a better tactic, but a split is quite hard to play and with a random group its most of the time just useless... (coz as split you should be able to play 4v6 and hold your ground till you get backup

 

If that is what had been happening, I'd agree. In fact, the roving defense has generally been the best tactic for holding them off.

 

But this, sadly, wasn't the above. It was a large group of the team defending one door, leaving myself and two others I think it was to hold the other door. This basically meant the Pubs could throw a fake assault on the heavily defended door while they focused down the three of us on the other side.

 

And it worked. Three times in a row.

[Soazak]

They are cloned but badly

 

Freezing Force : Chilling Scream

 

JK Blade Storm has a wind up time (the jedi visibly pulls his hand back) and a travel time (both moves are 10m), SW Force Scream deals damage immediately regardless of range

 

Jedi Consular / Sith Inquisitor:

 

Project (Cons) doesn't damage until projectile hits, SI Shock does damage instantly.

 

Smuggler / Imperial Agent:

 

The talent Accomplished Sawbones (Scoundrel) provides a 5%/10%/15% crit healing bonus opposed to Accomplished Doctor (Op) 10%/20%/30%.

 

Accomplished Sawbones / Ingame : Accomplished Doctor

 

Flash Bang (IA) has a 60 sec CD, Flash Grenade (Smuggler) has a 90 sec CD.

 

Flash Bang : Flash Grenade / Ingame

 

Debilitate can be used while moving, Dirty kick forces the player to stop.

 

Smuggler Sab Charge takes time to get to the target, IA Explosive Probe hits target instantly

 

 

That is just a few of the issues we have right now. Things need fixed.

 

And the level 31 healing talent...despite the descriptions being the same, the Sage version has an upfront heal for around 2k, and the hot ticks for twice the value of the Sorc version, the sorc version just seems to be a ****** AE HoT for 300/tick.

[Barakus]

Aside from a few inconsistencies with the mirroring (Republic getting shafted with animation delays), The Empire has no real advantage over the Republic. The problem is that such a huge number of people rolled empire and created an imbalance which lead to their being more level 50 Empire players faster. These level 50 players proceeded to curbstomp random pubbers in Warzones and get their PvP gear much more quickly which made the problem even worse.

 

I imagine that once some of the Empire get tired of Huttball and switch over to Republic, the perceived imbalance will start to disappear.

[ChrisJSY]

As mentioned,

This is but one, of many differences, they are not 100% mirrored.

 

If anything, not only does the population outweigh the republic, skills lean towards being better for the empire, for now anyway. Also for new people only, black talon is rediculously easy compared to Esseles, not that I care, it's just a simple observation.

 

If I had a 50 of each class and AC, I would make a video of them all to prove once and for all, to all these nay sayers that they are wrong. I already did with that video, I'll do it again if I had the chance.

 

But no, I'm not leveling 16 times to 50.

[drakhla]

The problem is that such a huge number of people rolled empire and created an imbalance which lead to their being more level 50 Empire players faster. These level 50 players proceeded to curbstomp random pubbers in Warzones and get their PvP gear much more quickly which made the problem even worse.

 

Logical fallacy.

 

If the argument is the empire has more players across the board, then they not only have a larger distribution of level 50s but all levels. And since the PvP queues are random depending on who is ready to play at any time, that means the distribution of the levels in a match is random. So while the empire has more level 50s, they will not on average have more level 50s in an 8 man group sample.

 

The only argument I'm willing to entertain is the more hardcore guilds/players went to play empire side, and even that is quite weak. A 53% win ratio for imperial over such a short amount of time (when they posted that) is not statistically conclusive in any way.

[GrandMike]

Aside from a few inconsistencies with the mirroring (Republic getting shafted with animation delays), The Empire has no real advantage over the Republic. The problem is that such a huge number of people rolled empire and created an imbalance which lead to their being more level 50 Empire players faster. These level 50 players proceeded to curbstomp random pubbers in Warzones and get their PvP gear much more quickly which made the problem even worse.

 

I imagine that once some of the Empire get tired of Huttball and switch over to Republic, the perceived imbalance will start to disappear.

 

So aside an advantage, Empire doesnt have an advantage. Bravo.

 

Animation delays impact is quite noticable, to the point where if there are 2 equally skilled teams empire will win just beacuse of this. When it takes 1 second dealy just to get skill off and opposing team "mirrored" skill gets off of instantly its not just "fluff".

Edited January 10, 2012 by GrandMike

[Chiricahua]

Simple law of averages. Most servers I think have a 70/30 ratio of imperial to republic. If there is more of one type, there is bound to be more of everthing else. That includes lvl 50's with great expertise gear.

[Barakus]

So aside an advantage, Empire doesnt have an advantage. Bravo.

 

Animation delays impact is quite noticeable, to the point where if there are 2 equally skilled teams empire will win just because of this. When it takes 1 second delay just to get skill off and opposing team "mirrored" skill gets off of instantly its not just "fluff".

 

Except that PvP is not played in a vacuum. On paper they may have a slight advantage with some classes but I've never had any problems beating Bounty Hunter's 1v1 on my Commando because of some 0.04 second longer delay in Mortar Volley over Death from Above.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Barakus

[Passioninfinte]

I'm sure everyone has read the same complaints, but it's ridiculous. PvP is simply put unenjoyable from the Republic's side. I argue that not just the Sith Inquiz, but the entire Empire's side needs to be nerfed down. Force lightning is obvious - it's the primary attack for any inquiz. "Oh but you can interrupt it," yeah, and then they cast it again, meanwhile I have another minute until I can use an interrupt again, AFTER I've already used all 3 (Smuggler). And what about the Bounty Hunter? Yeah homing missile is outlandishly strong, but my complaint is the flamethrower. It does massive damage, more with burns, AND as far as I've noticed it isn't channeled so it can't be interrupted.

 

It's stupid when I go into a PvP and 6/8 of the Empire players are inquizitors spamming force lightning, with a few bounty hunters to get their back when someone who knows what they're doing starts destroying them.

 

If you've read this, thanks for letting me vent.

 

Jansolo

 

 

QQ republic is QQ.

[Shmn]

Logical fallacy.

 

If the argument is the empire has more players across the board, then they not only have a larger distribution of level 50s but all levels. And since the PvP queues are random depending on who is ready to play at any time, that means the distribution of the levels in a match is random. So while the empire has more level 50s, they will not on average have more level 50s in an 8 man group sample.

 

The only argument I'm willing to entertain is the more hardcore guilds/players went to play empire side, and even that is quite weak. A 53% win ratio for imperial over such a short amount of time (when they posted that) is not statistically conclusive in any way.

 

However, it is reasonable to assume that higher levels engage in pvp on average more than lower levels. There are several supporting reasons:

 

• Slower level progression makes people look for variety, e.g. to alleviate boredom

• Slower level progression leaves more quest gaps for exp that PvP can supplement

• Players who enjoy PvP are more likely to PvP. Players enjoy winning. Therefore those who win more often play more often. Higher levels win more often, therefore higher levels PvP more often

 

Also, there are other factors to consider:

 

• Huttball is the fastest warzone for exp. It is also the only one that can reliably be exploited with a premade (fast 6 caps are much faster than premade farming voidstar/alderaan).

• Empire plays mostly huttball, therefore their level progression is faster. This problem is amplified for the premade farming which republic simply cannot do to the same degree.

• Advantage begets advantage. The same way that money comes to money those who have better gear will have an easier time of getting even better gear.

-> Imbalances are magnified over time

 

But the statistics don't lie, I'll give you that. However they also say little of the mechanisms at play. It's not a simple issue where one thing is causing the result, despite the overwhelming need for people to find a singular reason for everything. Rather, there are processes at work that work in parallel both ways, and their combined result is what we witness.

 

To me, consider the processes outlined above, it is remarkable that Republic is still winning 47% of the time (considering in addition the class mirroring discrepancies). This suggests that something is favouring republic as well; it could be that more of experienced pvp'ers rolled republic for instance. That is pure conjecture, however, but a possibility nonetheless. Other reasons may lie in for instance class distribution.

 

Whatever the reasons at work here, empire still has an advantage. Whether that will change in the coming weeks is left to be seen.

[Soazak]

To me, consider the processes outlined above, it is remarkable that Republic is still winning 47% of the time (considering in addition the class mirroring discrepancies). This suggests that something is favouring republic as well; it could be that more of experienced pvp'ers rolled republic for instance. That is pure conjecture, however, but a possibility nonetheless. Other reasons may lie in for instance class distribution.

 

Or it could be that your statistics are all based on assumptions, and everything is nearly equal.

 

Sure, there is a small difference in some abilities, but how many Warzones have come down to a loss due to a delayed Telekenetic throw? Or because some Smugglers CD was 90s instead of 60s?

 

The majority of the games I've played have been a win/loss by quite a few points. 53/47 suggests only that...that Empire have won slightly more than Republic.

[NinjaScroll]

You realize Assassin's are inquisitor's also right? I am an assassin. I do not use force lightning like ever.

 

but you could and also should use it.

(Only with reckless something, don't remember the exact name but it makes Force lightning range increase to 30m which can be a good thing.)

[Shmn]

Or it could be that your statistics are all based on assumptions, and everything is nearly equal.

 

Sure, there is a small difference in some abilities, but how many Warzones have come down to a loss due to a delayed Telekenetic throw? Or because some Smugglers CD was 90s instead of 60s?

 

The majority of the games I've played have been a win/loss by quite a few points. 53/47 suggests only that...that Empire have won slightly more than Republic.

 

I think you missed my point. We are in agreement on the fact that the small differences in skills are just that: small. They are a small statistical favouring that most likely fall within any margin of error if you attempt to measure it. Furthermore, with random variation on what players roll, how they play etc. it's not necessary for the statistics to be 50/50 even if perfect balance existed, that's just not how probabilities work.

 

So what you missed is that the numbers don't prove balance or imbalance. Like I said, there are most likely processes working both ways, and I've speculated on some above. If you want to criticize them, then please address them separately.