Fixing Melee

[DarthMacsimus]

It seems that Melee characters are at a noticable disadvantage in this game. The sheer amounts of cc in this game makes melee rather kiteable, so much for jedi deflection abilities. How could they make playing melee more balanced without the nerf bat?

 

Two Quick Ideas;

 

1. Melee already deflect bolts when they succesfully defend, could make a % of those as damage reflect back to the attacker.

 

or

 

2. In Kotor 1/2 when a melee did get close to an enemy all ranged attacks became less effective often prompting npc's to swith to a blade. Since this game really is the unofficial kotor 3, why not keep all the cc and kiteabilty but if a melee does manage to close ground against a ranged give them (Ranged) a damage penalty or (Melee) a damage buff.

[DarthMacsimus]

Wow dropped to the third page after one minute refresh after post, at least the forums are active.

[Surgin]

Main problem with melee is the amount of knockbacks. I cannot stand playing my sent in pvp, goes something like this....force leap almost immediately followed by a knock back with a snare from somewhere over and over again.

[Svest]

IMO the Guard/Jugg talent Unremitting/Unstoppable should be automatically given to all "charge-like" abilities for all classes that get one (the CC immunity part at least, the damage reducton part is not necessary). This would go a very long way and probably solve this problem IMO.

[Bauschh]

A very big problem is they clearly took the Eastern MMO model of class balancing, with ops/scoundrels being an exception.

 

In every asian mmo, at launch the ranged classes are overpowered, ALWAYS. Perhaps the ops/scound was just some naruto fan on the dev team.

 

This is a severe problem and is NEVER successful, and is NEVER kept. It is always corrected months, sometimes years after launch.

Question is, how long before Bioware wakes up?

 

Key hint to the devs:::

 

1. In PVP Burst Damage and Burst Healing win the day

 

2.Melee have to get into AND stay in Melee range to do DAMAGE

 

3.Ranged get to do damage from RANGE already giving them a clear advantage

 

4.A PVP system, that has melee classes and ranged classes but no auto attack. Gives Ranged classes the ADVANTAGE again

 

5. The foundation of balance in such situation is to add auto attack (extremely simple implimentation)

 

6. Currently RANGED classes are doing way more ON DEMAND (non RNG) Bust damage than Melee (OP/scound exception) which brings me to #7

 

7. Next step to fixing balance after auto attack is reverse polarity on burst damage. Ranged classes should have highest dps, moderate burst damage but less than melee and it should be more RNG/combo/setup, and less ON DEMAND. Melee should have more ON DEMAND burst.

 

8. In a game with the norm diversity of classes (Rogues/Melee dps, Tanks, Healers, Ranged DPS, and Hyrbids). Melee DPS should generally have more tools than other types to give them an advantage over Ranged DPS. Ranged DPS should have more tools to give them an advantage over Tanks. Tanks should have more tools than any other type to give them an advantage over Melee DPS. Hybrids and Healers, being such. Should have some tools effective against everyone.

 

9. World PVP success REQUIRES population balance. At this point you pretty much screwed the pooch. With such an imbalance favoring empire, and with so many class imbalances, and with abilities supposed to be mirrored, having animations favor empire. It comes to obvious conclusion that with such a drastic population imbalance, empire will also have the most players of an overpowered class (obviously with more pop), therefore wins are easier. With more players, getting groups together is easier, therefore premade wins are easier. This list gos on and on but it basically means they get easier PVP gear.

 

At this point the only way you can even band-aid the population situation is consolidate (merge) some servers. Have the ques based only on the overpopulated side. (so atm if the server is full a republic player wouldnt have to wait in a que, an imp would). You have to give free Champ bags, tokens, and comms to Republic players already 40+. In addition an xp/valor/credit bonus until the population is more like 40/60 or 50/50

[yukirshiro]

Melee is just fine except in huttball. The map systematically favors ranged classes. Something needs to be changed. Probably they need to put in some elevators to get you back up from the bottom level more quickly, or they need to put in LOS-blocking walls on the upper levels that block LOS to below them (but not to one level below). Being able to knock someone down and then chain cast on them from above creates too many imbalances.

[blackcerberus]

IMO the Guard/Jugg talent Unremitting/Unstoppable should be automatically given to all "charge-like" abilities for all classes that get one (the CC immunity part at least, the damage reducton part is not necessary). This would go a very long way and probably solve this problem IMO.

 

that would create the opposite problem. light armored rangeds would never be able to take the meleers off of them.

[Svest]

that would create the opposite problem. light armored rangeds would never be able to take the meleers off of them.

 

It only lasts for 4 seconds. They would just have to be smart enough not to blow their KB as soon as the melee jumps in. But it would give the meleers at least some time to get an attack or 2 in.

[tonpu]

Melee is just fine except in huttball. The map systematically favors ranged classes. Something needs to be changed. Probably they need to put in some elevators to get you back up from the bottom level more quickly, or they need to put in LOS-blocking walls on the upper levels that block LOS to below them (but not to one level below). Being able to knock someone down and then chain cast on them from above creates too many imbalances.

 

Melee is fine in Huttball.

[Rimiserk]

Melee is fine in Huttball.

Melee is more then fine, if it doesnt have stealth it has a low level leap/jump charge or whatever its called and on top for that melee has snare and more CC then ranged classes. in what parallel universe is melee underpowered?

On top of everything melee out damages ranged by far (yes, it takes skill to circle around ranged class).

[Bauschh]

Melee is more then fine, if it doesnt have stealth it has a low level leap/jump charge or whatever its called and on top for that melee has snare and more CC then ranged classes. in what parallel universe is melee underpowered?

On top of everything melee out damages ranged by far (yes, it takes skill to circle around ranged class).

 

You are clearly on the forums for a different game then the one you are playing.

[necropsyalpha]

you guys are complaining about the hutball map not game ballance issues

 

range vs mele is pritty ballanced

[Svest]

Melee is more then fine, if it doesnt have stealth it has a low level leap/jump charge or whatever its called and on top for that melee has snare and more CC then ranged classes. in what parallel universe is melee underpowered?

On top of everything melee out damages ranged by far (yes, it takes skill to circle around ranged class).

 

In what parallel universe does melee have more CC than ranged?

[GIGAR]

you guys are complaining about the hutball map not game ballance issues

 

range vs mele is pritty ballanced

 

Tbh... This.

Huttball is just the result of some designer taking every single psychedelic and then creating a map.

 

Also, autoattack in SWTOR would be completely pointless. It also wouldn't make any sense.

[yukirshiro]

Melee is not fine in huttball. Classes with a charge are slightly less gimp than melee classes without a charge. And SA are fine in huttball despite being melee because they have force speed cheese. Edited January 9, 2012 by yukirshiro

[Bauschh]

 

Also, autoattack in SWTOR would be completely pointless. It also wouldn't make any sense.

 

Whilst your opinion is important, you have no evidence to back this up and couldn't have any anyway since EVERY successful mmo TO DATE has auto attack.

 

It is not broke, don't fix it

Edited January 9, 2012 by Bauschh

[GIGAR]

Whilst your opinion is important, you have no evidence to back this up and couldn't have any anyway since EVERY successful mmo TO DATE has auto attack.

 

It is not broke, don't fix it

 

1. Would make the Assault abilities of the Sith Warrior/Jedi Knight pointless.

2. Would break animations totally. While not super important, it's still a massive change.

3. It would require a complete/very, very large rework of almost all the melee talent trees and abilities.

[neocoma]

You have to differ between melee and jedi knight/sentinel

 

scoundrels are fine, even more than that. stealth, stun, bam, down.

Almost same goes for shadows ...stealth, speed, pewpew, proc, down.

[Rheinguard]

Well I saw that Troopers Tactics tree gets a perma 30% speed boost while using high energy cell. And I was wondering why I kept getting kited to blivion by most ranges classes, what if they also get movement speed boosts?

 

Fix: Remove the movement speed boosts from Ranged classes and add some movement speed boost for all pure melee classes. Kiting should be harder to cheeze from now on.

[GIGAR]

You have to differ between melee and jedi knight/sentinel

 

scoundrels are fine, even more than that. stealth, stun, bam, down.

Almost same goes for shadows ...stealth, speed, pewpew, proc, down.

 

It would still dumb down the game, and give an advantage for HAVING PEOPLE TARGETED, even without pressing any buttons.

Furthermore, I don't always wish to attack the enemies that I target. Say, if I want to CC them.

 

Furthermore, WoW still have occasional bugs with autoattack. I'm not saying it's huge, but it happens, and that game have been out for over half a decade now - SWTOR implementing such a system would cause more annoying bugs.

[necropsyalpha]

There should be 2v2 arena

 

then everyone would be able to tell what classes are ballenced or not

[Svest]

It would still dumb down the game, and give an advantage for HAVING PEOPLE TARGETED, even without pressing any buttons.

Furthermore, I don't always wish to attack the enemies that I target. Say, if I want to CC them.

 

Furthermore, WoW still have occasional bugs with autoattack. I'm not saying it's huge, but it happens, and that game have been out for over half a decade now - SWTOR implementing such a system would cause more annoying bugs.

 

I agree. Autoattack is a lame, outdated concept and it was a very good decision to not include it in SWTOR.

[xVexillex]

Well I saw that Troopers Tactics tree gets a perma 30% speed boost while using high energy cell. And I was wondering why I kept getting kited to blivion by most ranges classes, what if they also get movement speed boosts?

 

Fix: Remove the movement speed boosts from Ranged classes and add some movement speed boost for all pure melee classes. Kiting should be harder to cheeze from now on.

 

you do realize that the trooper "Tactics" tree is a melee/ less then 10m range class right?

 

obviously not as you wouldnt have made this retarded post if you did

[Bauschh]

1. Would make the Assault abilities of the Sith Warrior/Jedi Knight pointless.

2. Would break animations totally. While not super important, it's still a massive change.

3. It would require a complete/very, very large rework of almost all the melee talent trees and abilities.

 

Wrong, and still opinion, NOT evidence but I will bite.

 

Every class has a "filler ability" that costs no resources, this would just but automated. Bam easy implementation.

 

Op/Scound are extremely overpowered, and the only defenders they have are either A. playing one as their main or B. rerolled "to" play one.

 

Shadows/Sins are no where overpowered and they are 70% RNG 30% cooldown. This is a formula that is ONLY successful on a RANGED class. A melee class should be 70% cooldown, 30% RNG.

The game also lacks a very basic element that every successful MMO has applied in the past 5-10 years, and that is a melee class or melee classes with a combo system/ attack chain system for building attacks. The Attack chain system is the ONLY reasonable formula that even comes close to being possible when auto attack is not present. (like the attack chain system in AION even tho there is auto attack)

Edited January 10, 2012 by Bauschh

[DarthMacsimus]

A very big problem is they clearly took the Eastern MMO model of class balancing, with ops/scoundrels being an exception.

 

In every asian mmo, at launch the ranged classes are overpowered, ALWAYS. Perhaps the ops/scound was just some naruto fan on the dev team.

 

This is a severe problem and is NEVER successful, and is NEVER kept. It is always corrected months, sometimes years after launch.

Question is, how long before Bioware wakes up?

 

Key hint to the devs:::

 

1. In PVP Burst Damage and Burst Healing win the day

 

2.Melee have to get into AND stay in Melee range to do DAMAGE

 

3.Ranged get to do damage from RANGE already giving them a clear advantage

 

4.A PVP system, that has melee classes and ranged classes but no auto attack. Gives Ranged classes the ADVANTAGE again

 

5. The foundation of balance in such situation is to add auto attack (extremely simple implimentation)

 

6. Currently RANGED classes are doing way more ON DEMAND (non RNG) Bust damage than Melee (OP/scound exception) which brings me to #7

 

7. Next step to fixing balance after auto attack is reverse polarity on burst damage. Ranged classes should have highest dps, moderate burst damage but less than melee and it should be more RNG/combo/setup, and less ON DEMAND. Melee should have more ON DEMAND burst.

 

8. In a game with the norm diversity of classes (Rogues/Melee dps, Tanks, Healers, Ranged DPS, and Hyrbids). Melee DPS should generally have more tools than other types to give them an advantage over Ranged DPS. Ranged DPS should have more tools to give them an advantage over Tanks. Tanks should have more tools than any other type to give them an advantage over Melee DPS. Hybrids and Healers, being such. Should have some tools effective against everyone.

 

9. World PVP success REQUIRES population balance. At this point you pretty much screwed the pooch. With such an imbalance favoring empire, and with so many class imbalances, and with abilities supposed to be mirrored, having animations favor empire. It comes to obvious conclusion that with such a drastic population imbalance, empire will also have the most players of an overpowered class (obviously with more pop), therefore wins are easier. With more players, getting groups together is easier, therefore premade wins are easier. This list gos on and on but it basically means they get easier PVP gear.

 

At this point the only way you can even band-aid the population situation is consolidate (merge) some servers. Have the ques based only on the overpopulated side. (so atm if the server is full a republic player wouldnt have to wait in a que, an imp would). You have to give free Champ bags, tokens, and comms to Republic players already 40+. In addition an xp/valor/credit bonus until the population is more like 40/60 or 50/50

 

/Signed 10/10