Lawrichai Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 That SIS / Double Agent quest line was awesome! I loved it! The hardest part for me was NOT getting confused at why I was there and who I was really working for. ^^ I let everybody live but Ardun Kothe, since he admitted he "needed" to kill me. Chance was just being too cute, ending up using the codeword without really wanting to, Wheel and Saber were just doing their job and weren't aware of the full plan anyway... ... and I too got a bit obsessed with Hunter ... Here's a thought I had while playing: Since I was allowed to side up with Jadus and then become "The Hand of Jadus", it would be really nice to be able to join Hunter's side and become part of the Star Cabbal..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumenadducere Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 The only person I was really after that whole chapter was Hunter. Hunter was obviously a complete jerk, did nothing to hide it, and took pleasure in acting that way. My agent (and I, to an extent) tries to be logical and pragmatic - given a reversal of position, it's likely that he'd have done the same thing. Scared for his life and bleeding on the ground, with your only potential backup a new double-agent who may actually be working to betray you? And you have something which guarantees them saving your life? Could I, bleeding out with death looming on the horizon, really not use that to save myself? Would I stick to my principles and keep them free of the brainwashing? It saddens me to say it, but the simple answer is that I don't know...though I have the sneaking suspicion that I wouldn't be that resolute when faced with death. I'd feel horrible about it and seek to make amends after the fact, but in the moment? No promises. Kothe at the same time was doing the pragmatic thing to protect his team. He even says it himself - he was preparing this major operation and just when he needed it a cipher agent shows up, looking to change sides? Too convenient, but also too tempting to refuse. And again, you're given the ability to end a war with minimal bloodshed while guaranteeing that your team is unharmed by this new person who very likely is an enemy mole (which, let's face it, you are). Given the same situation and given something that can guarantee your team's safety and let you end a brutal and bloody galactic war with trillions of lives on the line, can anyone honestly say that they wouldn't? That they'd simply trust the all-too-convenient enemy that's dropped in their lap and risk their entire team being killed and the operation dismantled? Again, I don't know what I'd do, but I likely would wind up using it. Maybe that makes me a terrible person, to sacrifice one individual's free will for the safety of my comrades and for the ensured success of my objective to end a war, but I can't honestly blame him for using it. Anyone who can't admit that it isn't the sensible and pragmatic thing to do given his situation is turning a blind eye. And for what it's worth he makes it clear that he regrets doing it. But Hunter? Yeah, Hunter was going down. There was sadism in Hunter, a creepy enjoyment of having power over me. Whereas others expressed remorse, Hunter expressed a smug sense of joy. I feel sympathy for the others, but for Hunter I never felt anything other than anger. Even at the end with the revelations, I had nothing other than a sense of "you are an incredibly messed up individual" for Hunter. It makes sense given the brief description you get of Hunter's backstory, but it makes sense in the same way that a paranoid schizophrenic who murders people makes sense. You get why they're doing what they're doing, but it still doesn't make it right, and it doesn't make it okay for them to take such pleasure at another person's pain. I felt that it was sucked for Hunter to have been put into that situation, but there was no real sympathy on my end. I really have no idea how people grow so attached to Hunter or what it is about the character that makes them like or want to romance him. Is it the dominating personality? Is it the back-and-forth between the IA and Hunter? I'm just utterly at a total loss as to how anyone could like Hunter given the way he treats the IA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzoong Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 (edited) I killed the whole sis team including Kothe, that was the sole reason why I was sent there in the first place, my agent is immune to the "stockholm syndrome". Hunter was the most competent adversary and a really well written character, hated "him" almost as much as Kothe from the first time we met. Kothe has an awesome voice actor, very good job, Sir, you made me "hate" a toon with your voice. To the poster above: Hunter is your mirror image, your anima so to speak (regardless of your chars gender) "he" is you in a sense, "his" actions only are a mirror of yours, that is one reason why the IA story is so awesome. Edited April 27, 2012 by Bazzoong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrichai Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 (edited) Hunter is your mirror image, your anima so to speak (regardless of your chars gender) "he" is you in a sense, "his" actions only are a mirror of yours, that is one reason why the IA story is so awesome. Well analyzed ^^ /nodding in agreement And that's what makes the end of our class story so interesting. Kind of makes you realize that there is no "good or bad" sides, but rather one way to see things, .. and the other way around. Edited April 27, 2012 by Lawrichai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirdthestrill Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I felt kind of bad about killing Chance, he was really just a scared kid, but he messed with my head. Anyone who messes with my head dies. As I played through this, I said to my bf: This was just a job, but they made it PERSONAL when they played with my head. Now I'm killing all of them. I'm light side and usually let people live, but they had to die for doing that to me. Kind of the same thing here. I always do what I think is best for the empire, no matter if its light side or dark side, but this was different. They can torture me until I'm not even recognizable as human, but my mind is my sanctum. They don't mess with it, unless they have a death wish. Apparently they did. I felt just a tiny twinge of guilt about killing chance, but I did learn a lesson. Never make your mind-control codeword difficult to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 (edited) Codeword: Iconoclasm. You all will bow down to my superiority and worship my pinky toes and send me all your credits. Kaliyo wants to go barhopping again and that can be expensive. So yeah, I didn't kill any of Kothe's team... I even gave him the option to live, but he chose to close the shield and let the turrets go crazy on him. They may have messed with Willaani to the point it was almost driving her mad as to how it happened, but she knew it wasn't them that did it and it had to be someone in Intelligence. Kothe's team was given a tool to use, they used it and Kothe chose to end his life as payment for doing so. I like Hunter in the fact that "he" was very playful (at least the way I RP'd the conversations) and while the enemy, he had a great amount of respect for Willaani and I played it in the reverse as well. I chose to let "him" live after the last confrontation and as we all know what happens, I was kind of disappointed. I think it could have been great to have Hunter live with some kind of "You have 1 day to run before I come after you starting..... NOW!" cat and mouse chase for a future expansion/story opportunity. That's the problem with Bioware's decision tree though. There are too many results of "shoot him/her in the face" making it tough to revisit any of those plot characters (like Thana Vesh... I'd so love to have to break her out of some prison again on another world she got too cocky on). Edited April 30, 2012 by Primal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronSalamander Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 (edited) Every single one of them used me with the brainwash thing, they all died, period. This exactly. Chance was the only I didn't relish killing, but die he did. My biggest regret with these bastards was that: We only got to shoot that waste of carbon Hunter. I wanted to drive my vibro-knife into her skull and watch her corpse twitch for some time. Revenge needs to be savored and my hatred of this puke rivals my hatred of Jadus and Zhorrid. I loved the scene with Kothe where I gave him that evil look as he dies that is extra cold thanks to the monochromatic Chiss eyes. Lokin made a comment about me being the forgiving kind since I was all light until these bastards, but I replied perfectly: "Death's too good for him." This fits all these code-word using scumbags. Edited April 27, 2012 by IronSalamander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celacia Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Again, I don't know what I'd do, but I likely would wind up using it. Maybe that makes me a terrible person, to sacrifice one individual's free will for the safety of my comrades and for the ensured success of my objective to end a war, but I can't honestly blame him for using it. Anyone who can't admit that it isn't the sensible and pragmatic thing to do given his situation is turning a blind eye. And for what it's worth he makes it clear that he regrets doing it. I understand that it's the logical thing for him to do. It was still unforgivable. He admitted it was unforgivable. And my agent had no mercy or softness or forgiveness in her heart for him. It was too violating, taking her control from her like that, even if he was not responsible for the mechanisms which allowed him to do so being in place. (And it ended up being a really hard thing personally, for me, as well. I had unresolved issues that I wasn't really aware of prior to this.) So, yeah he died. She'd probably have violated his corpse too, if she had been able to. She let Chance go - he was kind to her when she needed it, and she liked him. She could understand his use of it in a moment of panic, even though he was against using it on principle. Saber and Wheels did nothing to her, so she let them go. Not even sure if they were in the know about the situation - Hunter knew because he acquired the info, Kothe was in charge, and Chance was his second in command, so they all had reasons for knowing, and Saber and Wheels really didn't. Hunter... now, Hunter and my agent had a complicated hate-love-hate relationship. So much hate for that sadistic bastard, and yet, like Bazzoong said... Hunter is your mirror image, your anima so to speak (regardless of your chars gender) "he" is you in a sense, "his" actions only are a mirror of yours, that is one reason why the IA story is so awesome. and she was caught in a very magnetic kind of attraction to him. My agent totally would have done him too, if it had been possible, male or female. My only problem with the 'big reveal' was that my husband's agent, being male got to end things with her gently and with love, and mine, being female, did not, even though the two of them had had a much more intense relationship. (Also, that mHunter was much better looking than fHunter. *sigh*) Honestly, he was the only person who might possibly have managed to pry her away from Vector, to whom she is fairly devoted in her own way. But with Hunter it was like a moth to a flame, or again, opposite magnetic poles, and there was just no getting away from it. When he called her a liar and said she had loved their 'game' brainwashing, torture, and all? He was right. She is going to miss him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellyria Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I let Chance, Saber, and Wheels live, killed Kothe and Hunter. Saber and Wheels never used the codeword. Chance did, but he didn't want to die, so I could fault him for it, but I don't want to. it's too bad that they don't give you an opportunity to pay him a visit in the hospital afterwards I said that to my friend, and he's like, "You mean you'd try to jump him while he's in the hospital" to which I replied, "Don't judge me!" XD He's just too cute. Good thing Vector's pheromones keep my Agent in check. I let Chance live and regretted it, all I got from him was a letter It's been a while since I finished the Agent storyline, but you got a letter?! I don't remember getting a letter. *sadface* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Yeah, I remember the letter....just basically saying "Hey I'm recovering at the hospital, you're really a good guy, I should buy you a drink one of these days" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frokid Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) They all used the brainwashing They are all dead now And yea, when you closed the shield on him and went face to face as he was about to die. Just made me nice and warm inside. Try and exploit me? YOU DIE ***** The only one i hated killing, was hunter. I played my agent to a point where he allmost mirrored me exacly. When he revealed herself as someone who lost it from being anonymos, i just thought about how that could be me in future dlc. Plotting the downfall of the major forces of the galaxy Edited April 28, 2012 by Frokid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialLoyalist Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I'm making decent progress through chapter 3, and my biggest hope is that it can live up to what chapter 2 was. That ds ending with Kothe and the epic pistol saber duel was perhaps the tied for best scene in this whole game (the other one being when you finally free the Dread Masters on Belsavis) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethyriel Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 It was funny for me - when I played Double Agent I was actually thinking about staying a DA if possible - until they did this **** with the codeword - exactly what I told that idiot before he refused to just walk away which made me redo the conversatiuon and let him be killed by the turrets. I also let Chance die, he didn't even give me a chance to help him and sprung the codeword on me, it was SO satisfying to hear my agent say "aaaw, you can't say it... can you?". The other two I tricked into leaving and giving me some stuff, they didn't use the codeword afaik, no need to kill innocent bystanders (I played mostly light during all missions, for class story.. probably neutral, maybe even more darkside). I do understand why Kothe did what he did but toying with people like that - too far gone, it's simply wrong from a moral point of view and, as we are all working for intelligence in one way or another, it's just such a lame way to control things - only thing I didn't like about hunter, everything else... like my agent said.. he was a worthy enemy and I did enjoy her challenge, wanted to help her, she wanted to die.... kept the codex for myself btw, why the hell would I give that thing to anyone?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celacia Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 It was funny for me - when I played Double Agent I was actually thinking about staying a DA if possible - until they did this **** with the codeword - exactly what I told that idiot before he refused to just walk away which made me redo the conversatiuon and let him be killed by the turrets. Exactly. After the end of Chapter 1 my agent was completely disgusted with the Sith and their games and was at least willing to consider honestly working with the SIS if they could convince her that the Republic would be better for the people of the Empire. It was a huge risk for Intelligence to send her to them. (She still would have stopped Kothe's shadow arsenal plan though, because she was firmly convinced that it was at best stupid and at worst completely disastrous - he would have been forced to use it (because the Sith wouldn't take him seriously or care about it anyway) and then it would have just served to ensure that there was no chance for peace at all, ever.) She was already halfway there, and Kothe's treatment of her instead served to make her as disgusted by the Republic as she was by the Sith, if not more so, because at least the Sith don't pretend to be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalhazar Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Codeword: Iconoclast. You all will bow down to my superiority and worship my pinky toes and send me all your credits. Kaliyo wants to go barhopping again and that can be expensive. It's a funny thing, but that isn't quite the codeword. And those of us who picked the freedom option wouldn't be affected anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) It's a funny thing, but that isn't quite the codeword. And those of us who picked the freedom option wouldn't be affected anyway. Yeah, oops. One letter off. It's changed now, so start worshiping my pinky toes! Keyword: Iconoclasm And you're only free from the keyword: Onomatophobia... the reprogramming gave you a new keyword, Iconoclasm. That isn't gone. Edited April 30, 2012 by Primal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalhazar Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Yeah, oops. One letter off. It's changed now, so start worshiping my pinky toes! Keyword: Iconoclasm And you're only free from the keyword: Onomatophobia... the reprogramming gave you a new keyword, Iconoclasm. That isn't gone. That's an interesting assertion, and not the way I took it at all. "Watcher X" very clearly said to close the command interface and accept no further commands. That seems pretty straightforward. The choice of keyword reflects that, to some extent, although it wouldn't apply to the other choices. I'm actually curious to see if, in the future, the freedom choice grants some kind of key resistance to a mind-control effect. How does everyone else feel about this? If you chose freedom, are you now uncontrollable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erei Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 How does everyone else feel about this? If you chose freedom, are you now uncontrollable? I'm not a tool anymore. Not for the Sith, the Empire, or anyone else. I'm a human being, an agent. And my final choices made me more "rogue", and powerful, but my loyalty are with the Empire. about Kothe I didnt killed the kid on taris, chance I think it was. Not by mercy, but as a way to better infiltrate the SiS team. The others, I killed them. It wasn't easy, but it was the job. I knew they would die from day 1, but it didn't make the whole task more easy. I asked Kothe to surrender, and he committed suicide. I had respect for the man. It was a nemesis, a great adversary you respect, and feel when he die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celacia Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 That's an interesting assertion, and not the way I took it at all. "Watcher X" very clearly said to close the command interface and accept no further commands. That seems pretty straightforward. The choice of keyword reflects that, to some extent, although it wouldn't apply to the other choices. I'm actually curious to see if, in the future, the freedom choice grants some kind of key resistance to a mind-control effect. How does everyone else feel about this? If you chose freedom, are you now uncontrollable? That was kind of the point of choosing freedom. My feeling is that at this point my agent's mind would self-destruct rather than accept further instructions if it was unable to simply ignore them. Maker knows it was difficult enough for her to get the second set to overwrite the first. What I am curious about is whether the choice taken there affect what happens when SCORPIO gasses your party on Belsavis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzoong Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) Yeah, oops. One letter off. It's changed now, so start worshiping my pinky toes! Keyword: Iconoclasm And you're only free from the keyword: Onomatophobia... the reprogramming gave you a new keyword, Iconoclasm. That isn't gone. You can not override the initial command with the new keyword with the same keyword, that initial command is" accept no further commands" if you chose the freedom option. I do not know if this has effects on the story development, but when you meet scorpio she fails to control you with mind control techniques and comments on you being immune as odd since that tech should not exist, yet. Edited April 30, 2012 by Bazzoong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 You guys are such party poopers... can't even have a little fun. Instead, you have to dissect every little thing and pull it to pieces. Yes, if you chose freedom (which Willaani did), even the Watcher X chip "dies" as you are no longer subject to any mind control, thanks to the final reprogramming. The keyword is still there, just doesn't do anything anymore. Seriously... learn how to have a little fun though. Life's too short to be picking everything apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celacia Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 You guys are such party poopers... can't even have a little fun. Instead, you have to dissect every little thing and pull it to pieces. Yes, if you chose freedom (which Willaani did), even the Watcher X chip "dies" as you are no longer subject to any mind control, thanks to the final reprogramming. The keyword is still there, just doesn't do anything anymore. Seriously... learn how to have a little fun though. Life's too short to be picking everything apart. To each their own, I guess. Considering this kind of thing is fun for some of us. Also, I am not sure about the chip. Mind control wasn't its point, or really what it did (in this context, I mean, not the one for which you had it put in, we know what it did there) so it may or may not be affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalhazar Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Seriously... learn how to have a little fun though. Life's too short to be picking everything apart. Have you seen the 347-page debates about lightsaber crystal colors in the Lore forum? This is Star Wars. Joking aside, I don't partake in the canonicity debates, but it's fun to ponder the implications of the Agent storyline, just 'cause it's a cool story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardim Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) I hated being brainwashed so therefore I killed everyone that used me. I was going to save Chance... Then he brainwashed me to save him when I was going to anyways which pissed me off and I ended up killing him. Edited May 1, 2012 by Ardim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agonisis Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 by blade or blaster they all died. I left no loose ends. Didn't know if it woulod come back to bite me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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