Sofiero Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Every single one of them used me with the brainwash thing, they all died, period. Why do people saying it was SiS brainwashing you...it was the sith council who planted in your brains because they fear you after the darth jadus-incident and Hunter got information from imperial intelligence which he/she gave to the jedi Ardun Kothe. The SiS team had nothing to do with your brainwashing. To people who reading this thread before ever complete the IA story, why do you come here? You will lose 99% of the fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celacia Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Why do people saying it was SiS brainwashing you...it was the sith council who planted in your brains because they fear you after the darth jadus-incident and Hunter got information from imperial intelligence which he/she gave to the jedi Ardun Kothe. The SiS team had nothing to do with your brainwashing. To people who reading this thread before ever complete the IA story, why do you come here? You will lose 99% of the fun. The fact that they were not responsible for it's origin does not mean that they are free from blame for taking advantage of the fact that it was there. You expect the Sith to act like that. You expect the Republic to be better, and they are not. And yeah, it's a bad idea to read this thread without having finished the story, given things that have been said about the end of Ch. 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andronicos Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Anyone care to share their experience dealing with him and his team? Personally, as a Dark Side IA, I couldn't wait to give this guy his comeuppance, and the scene where I actually got to do just that was among the coolest scenes I've ever witnessed in a game! "Yeah, I see your fancy Soresu form blocking my pistol shots, but what's this? Look at that, you're behind a barrier now... Time to say goodnight, nurse." That's one of my favourite cutscenes in the game! As for the team, my mission was to terminate Arden so that's the only one I killed, wisely the twi'lek and the droid got out of my way so they got to live, not that I would give it a second thought if they would have tried anything, I only have one rule when playing my Agent and that is "Can't jeopardize the mission", though that only applies to Intelligence operations (both story and side quests) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejadavidson Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) My agent is more LS but with some DS points. He's not a wanton murderer. Bodies leave too many clues and he's a spy not an assassin. That being said, II let them all live because one of the reason I rolled an IA was the option to defect to the republic. I really wanted to see how that played out in the story. However, if you think about this, who is ultimately responsible for the mind control? It's the Sith, and to a lesser degree Keeper 1. Oh he saved you, so he says, but he really could have done more, like uh... warned you? Somehow get an incoded message to you? Sabotaged the process? He was a spymaster for heaven's sake, there was nothing he could do? I don't by that. Ultimately, he cowtowed to the Sith, he's nothing but a tool. When Kothe and Hunter got word that a high level Cypher agent was defecting, they played it safe and used the mind control (I think Hunter hacked the imperial intelligence database, after all, one of the last things she told my agent was that the Star Cabal trained her in all manners of subversive techniques). Wouldn't you have done the same thing in Kothe's place? And, come to find out, you are a mole and they were absolutely correct in using the mind control. Don't blame him for being smart, blame the Sith for treating you like a rabid dog that needs a leash. My anger was directed toward the people who were suppose to have my back. You were a patriot and the Empire screwed you, which is why I had no issue defecting at the end. Oh, and I actually liked Kothe and even Hunter. Too bad she had to die, she would have made a more fitting companion to the IA than Kaliyo or Temple. Edited June 11, 2012 by ejadavidson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) Oh, and I actually liked Kothe and even Hunter. Too bad she had to die, she would have made a more fitting companion to the IA than Kaliyo or Temple. The agents companions are like the Island of Misfit Toys... with the exception of Kaliyo. Temple - Force Sensitive who never trained, would be dead if found out - Misfit SCORPIO - Insanely genius droid that wants to kill you but cannot, so hangs out to learn how to kill you - Misfit Lokin - Rakghul... 'Nuff said - Misfit Vector - Creepy bug dude with an identity problem - Misfit Kaliyo - party girl who gets in over her head way too often - Normal Hunter - Star Cabal extremist with no personal identity or home - Misfit Yeah, I can agree that Kaliyo can be easily replaced and Hunter would be a better fit in the agents crew. Temple is awesomesauce and stays on the team though. Don't you dare diss her again Edited June 11, 2012 by Primal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutive Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 , I was kind of disappointed. I think it could have been great to have Hunter live with some kind of "You have 1 day to run before I come after you starting..... NOW!" cat and mouse chase for a future expansion/story opportunity. That's the problem with Bioware's decision tree though. There are too many results of "shoot him/her in the face" making it tough to revisit any of those plot characters (like Thana Vesh... I'd so love to have to break her out of some prison again on another world she got too cocky on). I felt the same way. I'm really upset that I won't get to chase Thana around forever, trying to free her from jail and having her snark at me. (Oh, love. Or something.) And I'm honestly having a hard time imagining a better enemy than Hunter. I want to think that somewhere, "he" is out there, waiting for my agent to screw up, and being like, "Oh, you thought I was dead, did you? Well, fortunately you've got more looks than brains..." Then either save the agent or antagonize him/her. Hunter was such an awesome villain. I keep vaguely hoping for med droids. Like...those dumb things can revive anyone. Maybe there is still hope? (Yes, I know there isn't, but I so want to believe...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutive Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 That's an interesting assertion, and not the way I took it at all. "Watcher X" very clearly said to close the command interface and accept no further commands. That seems pretty straightforward. Supposedly Castellan restraints only work short term, so it seems entirely plausible that you're still programmable. Just with a new word. that hopefully Watcher X doesn't know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Supposedly Castellan restraints only work short term, so it seems entirely plausible that you're still programmable. Just with a new word. that hopefully Watcher X doesn't know... Well, here's the codex entry for Castellan Mind control: CLASSIFIED REPORT / DO NOT REMOVE FROM INTELLIGENCE ARCHIVES Summary: The Castellan restraints are designed for limited behavior modification in a high-risk subject. In effect, the subject is programmed to react to a keyword with total obedience. Long-term commands can be implanted, but with lowered effectiveness. Once programming is activated, the subject will be aware of his inability to control his actions but unable to revolt. Procedure: Subject must first be primed with a dosage of the IX serum; the serum can be applied to the subject discreetly (e.g., during a routine medcenter visit) but should be formulated based on a detailed accounting of physical and psychological factors. The serum circulates over a period of between three and thirty days, effectively altering the subject’s brain chemistry. Once the serum is fully absorbed and the subject is primed, subject must be imprinted over the course of several hours. A trained handler will designate a permanent keyword that will activate the subject’s programming and open him to commands. Long-term commands, if desired, can be implemented at this time. No way to reverse the treatment has been developed. Theoretically, one could repeat the cycle and apply a new keyword–overwriting old programming–but the physical side effects of repeated IX serum usage could prove inhibiting. Notes: The Minister of Intelligence disapproves of widespread use of Castellan restraints on Imperial Intelligence personnel, but has agreed that limited trials are appropriate. Cross-reference: SLV serum series, IX serum, Quesh, dimalium-6 So.... Long term commands are possible, but limited in effectiveness. But I tend to believe on the side of your new keyword overwriting the old one entirely, as this paragraph suggests. It seems that once you are through with that initial programming to that keyword during that window of time, you're done. So unless Watcher X snuck something else in that we don't know about (some kind of long-term secret command?) what's done is done and we can't be programmed to obey any new commands. I wonder what happens if you got injected with a THIRD serum though.... Would you be immune, or will your brain explode? Anyway... Also wanted to say one other thing, I know it was posted a month ago, but yes, the Republic DID certainly have something to do with your brainwashing other than just using it for their purpose. The Empire injected you with the serum, Ardun Kothe activated its effects and programmed you with the codeword. It's a two-part process. Edited June 12, 2012 by chuixupu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celacia Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Also wanted to say one other thing, I know it was posted a month ago, but yes, the Republic DID certainly have something to do with your brainwashing other than just using it for their purpose. The Empire injected you with the serum, Ardun Kothe activated its effects and programmed you with the codeword. It's a two-part process. I don't think so. I think it had already been 'set' and conditioned, and the codeword primed, but no actual commands had been given yet - which was probably the best the Minister could do for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) We might both be right....they may have created the codeword, but I got the distinct impression that the actual conditioning happened with Kothe....it fits in with the blacking out/loss of time (which also happens with Watcher X). Guess I'll have to watch more closely when I get to that part of the story yet again, lol Edited June 12, 2012 by chuixupu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejadavidson Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I like Hunter in the fact that "he" was very playful (at least the way I RP'd the conversations) and while the enemy, he had a great amount of respect for Willaani and I played it in the reverse as well. I chose to let "him" live after the last confrontation and as we all know what happens, I was kind of disappointed. I think it could have been great to have Hunter live with some kind of "You have 1 day to run before I come after you starting..... NOW!" cat and mouse chase for a future expansion/story opportunity. That's the problem with Bioware's decision tree though. There are too many results of "shoot him/her in the face" making it tough to revisit any of those plot characters (like Thana Vesh... I'd so love to have to break her out of some prison again on another world she got too cocky on). There was a lot of respect between my agent and Hunter, like two adversaries who appreciate each others skills and who are actually enjoying the chase. Like a really great game of chess. But yeah, I was SOOOO disappointed when Hunter died. My agent kissed her. Loved that. I think my agent realized "Oh crap, no wonder I liked you, that you're female is even better." LOL. But the "You have 1 day to run" would have been epic. After all, when you complete chapter 3, the next story heading is "interlude" meaning this is just a lull in the action and chapter 4 is to come. Maybe one of the remnants of the Star Cabal retreived Hunter and put her in a koltoy tank? Maybe she will be a new IA companion? Same gender for the female IAs (when/if that comes out). We can hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejadavidson Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 That's an interesting assertion, and not the way I took it at all. "Watcher X" very clearly said to close the command interface and accept no further commands. That seems pretty straightforward. The choice of keyword reflects that, to some extent, although it wouldn't apply to the other choices. I'm actually curious to see if, in the future, the freedom choice grants some kind of key resistance to a mind-control effect. How does everyone else feel about this? If you chose freedom, are you now uncontrollable? You were immuned to any further mind control. Remember on Belsavis when SCORPIO used a drug to cause everyone to become agressive and attack each other? You were immuned to that and she even made an observation of the fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celacia Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 You were immuned to any further mind control. Remember on Belsavis when SCORPIO used a drug to cause everyone to become agressive and attack each other? You were immuned to that and she even made an observation of the fact.I still wonder how that scenario plays out for people who didn't pick the 'freedom' option at the end of Ch. 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I would guess it doesn't change....I feel like those options are more about stating your personal philosophy on life and not actually change what is done to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutive Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I still wonder how that scenario plays out for people who didn't pick the 'freedom' option at the end of Ch. 2. It doesn't change, in case you were wondering. (I think I picked "I want to push my body as hard as it can", and got the exact same response.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branosaros Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I played a LS Agent, but Kothe was incredibly unreasonable when it came to fighting him. So, I gave him an ultimatum: Surrender himself into Imperial Intelligence custody, or die. He chose the latter, to my surprise. I like to think my character had a grudging respect for him, but in the end I was an Imperial loyalist, and I knew that it was hardly practical to let him leave. Little upset that I wasn't given the option of defection at the end, but then again, I wouldn't have taken it. I liked Keeper's option. Keeper was like a father to my character, anyway. I admired him for all he was worth. I ultimately understood him, though sometimes disagreed with him. When he offered me the option of going dark, I felt as if he wanted to save something from Imperial Intelligence, and chose Cipher as symbol of what it represented. He was ultimately presented with the option to either kill you or restrain you, and later states that he will not reveal that you've broken free. He's started sending me messages in the post, and now I wish there was a function so I could meet up and have a game of dejerik in my stronghold with him. Yeah, I was quite upset when Hunter died. I did sort of want her to stay alive. She was the ultimate rival, and I loved how she admires you, and falls in love with you through seeing a reflection of herself (In an incredibly handsome, suave Imperial, if I might add.) So yeah, I'm a Light Side Imperial Loyalist, what of it? Someone has to make sure that we have a more appealing side, as well as sweep all the beautiful women and handsome men off their feet... Besides, under Darth Marr, I feel I will have a lot more opportunity to do so, as he seems to regard me as an equal, which shocked me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirdDementor Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) I was lightside, but I killed them all. Nothing personal - just being practical. They're SIS agents, and letting them live directly impedes the Imperial war effort. Edited October 4, 2014 by ThirdDementor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSStember Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I was neutral but a loyal Chiss agent...until 1: Watcher 2 rejected me because I was Chiss 2: The Empire brainwashed me. 3: I saw how other Chiss were treated on Hoth. So that led me to side with the SIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaineOs Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 So that led me to side with the SIS You probably had the same little addition to the final mission on yavin that I did then was good to see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSStember Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 You probably had the same little addition to the final mission on yavin that I did then was good to see it So far I've been very pleased with all the class specific missions on Rishii/Yavin 4. It was nice to see they didn't forget the choices we made. The only thing I felt was lacking was companion input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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