Staggered launch is not the problem, its Bioware

[Ezren]

I don't believe they do. As they say, it's a moving target. They want to remain flexible and the best way to do that, is not to plan too much ahead...

 

- Its a well known fact they have groups working in 24h shifts to ensure the best launch possible (or at least thats what they say). Heres even a quote from Stephen Reid.

''The Live Services team is working in shifts (24 hours a day, 7 days a week) for the next month to ensure that servers stay up, player population is well managed, issues are triaged, problems are communicated and bugs are fixed as fast as possible.

 

After that, we're on-call 24/7 for the life of the game.''

 

 

 

Because they need to analyze the data from the previous day and make decisions from there.

Also, while they might have several teams in place to take care of the servers in case it goes wrong, those teams likely don't have the managers that decide when and how many people to let in, in each wave.

Basically technician guys are working shifts, they make the reports etc

Then the managers come in during regular working hours and decide from there.

 

 

 

They specifically said that the purpose of EGA is that, Early Game Access, and that alone.

The goal is not to stress out the servers.

They know the servers can handle that much, they don't want too many people in at one time and make the experience unbearable, leading to other people crying for more servers.

 

 

 

All I see is you not agreeing with their decisions. Whether their decisions are good or not, I don't think you're in a position to criticize them.

 

If we were months from launch, and this was beta invites, I would agree with you.

 

However, we are one week away from the servers being WIDE OPEN. There is just no way to rationally or logically argue they need time to measure this or that, or gauge this or that this close to a full on launch.

 

If they need 18 hours between waves of invites for technical reasons, we have a HUGE DISASTROUS problems to expect on the 20th. Either the servers are ready or they aren't.

[Gauvi]

If they need 18 hours between waves of invites for technical reasons, we have a HUGE DISASTROUS problems to expect on the 20th. Either the servers are ready or they aren't.

 

I believe the servers are ready but they are just being over-cautious (which is a good thing IMO because despite all the goodwill and testing you may have done, you possibly cannot have covered all 100% of cases)

 

Last night, one server crashed. I don't remember which one but it certainly did.

Imagine if that wasn't just one but several. The number of people affected would have been much greater if not for this staggered access.

[Ezren]

I believe the servers are ready but they are just being over-cautious (which is a good thing IMO because despite all the goodwill and testing you may have done, you possibly cannot have covered all 100% of cases)

 

Last night, one server crashed. I don't remember which one but it certainly did.

Imagine if that wasn't just one but several. The number of people affected would have been much greater if not for this staggered access.

 

But your missing the point.

 

If the servers are going to crash I want them to crash NOW.

 

A steady, slow stream of invites would be smarter than 18 hour breaks between them. It ramps up slow, which is what they wanted.

 

Honestly I never thought they would do it this way. Based on what they said before hand, I and a lot of people thought, rolling waves of invites 24/7.

 

If no servers crash at all doing this very slow measured invites, whats going to happen when they go down on the 19th and EVERYONE can log in at once on 20th at midnight? Stop and consider that.

 

You want the beating to happen now, during early access, because its more expected. Come launch a server blowing up will be worse....trust me.

[_Skyanne_]

Drama Queens.

 

Yeah it sucks that we're not in, I really want to play too...but Bioware isn't 'the problem'. The problem is the game is really awesome and we don't want to wait.

[Tectonics]

To be honest, the only thing i would like to know is "rough guide" as to when we will get our EGA, i mean as a December pre-orderer i will be extremely lucky to get in today (i know that) but i would still like a rough idea of when im getting in, will stop all the anxious waiting.

 

In essence i don't mind waiting (we have all been waiting ages) i would just like to know how much longer.

[Aucifer]

All i see is poor desicion making on Biowares part.

 

All I see is someone who can't wait to get their fix. Breath deep and try to relax:rolleyes:

[Gauvi]

But your missing the point.

 

If the servers are going to crash I want them to crash NOW.

 

A steady, slow stream of invites would be smarter than 18 hour breaks between them. It ramps up slow, which is what they wanted.

 

Honestly I never thought they would do it this way. Based on what they said before hand, I and a lot of people thought, rolling waves of invites 24/7.

 

If no servers crash at all doing this very slow measured invites, whats going to happen when they go down on the 19th and EVERYONE can log in at once on 20th at midnight? Stop and consider that.

 

You want the beating to happen now, during early access, because its more expected. Come launch a server blowing up will be worse....trust me.

 

The way I see it, what they are doing is that indeed: ramping up slowly the number of people who get in.

Then, they let the servers stabilize and crunch some data at that fixed number of people.

The next day, they can analyze the data and decide whether it is a good idea to add more people, add more servers, delay some waves a little bit or not, take down servers that can't handle it, fix issues etc

 

However, if they just let the number increase steadily even overnight, should something crash, they won't be fully prepared to deal with it because not everyone is working at that time (technicians are on shift, managers are not I believe...and technicians can't take decisions without their managers)

 

What I believe this will lead to is that they are likely to let everyone in by Monday or even this week-end. That way, they will get some good feedback on how the servers will do on the 20th.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Gauvi

[Lasica]

Oh, was it you who performed the stress tests some weeks ago... hm, wasn't it?

 

Then stop being such a selfentiteling person! No crashes, no competition for kills, no lag etc. Bioware is winning.

 

Winning what exactly? Prize for most ******** way to launch a major MMO title?

[SnakeCL]

The way I see it, what they are doing is that indeed: ramping up slowly the number of people who get in.

Then, they let the servers stabilize and crunch some data at that fixed number of people.

The next day, they can analyze the data and decide whether it is a good idea to add more people, add more servers, delay some waves a little bit or not, take down servers that can't handle it, fix issues etc

 

However, if they just let the number increase steadily even overnight, should something crash, they won't be fully prepared to deal with it because not everyone is working at that time (technicians are on shift, managers are not I believe...and technicians can't take decisions without their managers)

 

What I believe this will lead to is that they are likely to let everyone in by Monday or even this week-end. That way, they will get some good feedback on how the servers will do on the 20th.

 

But they don't know how the servers will do on the 20th since they never got the numbers for everything working at full load, since they slowly let everyone in, and never had a load peak like they're looking at for launch.

 

If they're watching a low-load server for stability to see how it acts, how are they going to be able to fix a high-load server if they don't see how that reacts until launch day?

 

As an aside, (this isn't directed at you Gauvi), I do like how many of the main points the OP brought up, are pretty much ignored by people in replies.

 

"BioWare should have communicated more" is replied with "Don't be so self-entitled! You lazy jerk! Stop whining!" etc.

 

BioWare absolutely, 100% could've communicated better. They could have given rough estimates as to what dates were to be sent today. Transparency is something that could have really helped the process here, and quelled a lot of the anger.

 

Unfortunately, claiming otherwise is not going to make BioWare a better company. Of course, BioWare previously had issues dealing with criticism (see the DA2 debacle). But please, actually listen to a valid argument for once, instead of everyone sticking their fingers in their ears and pretending that no wrong can be done and its those filthy rotten complainers with a sense of entitlement. Those darn kids.

Edited December 14, 2011 by SnakeCL

[Beemerchick]

However, if they just let the number increase steadily even overnight, should something crash, they won't be fully prepared to deal with it because not everyone is working at that time (technicians are on shift, managers are not I believe...and technicians can't take decisions without their managers)

 

Why shouldn't managers work overnight - at least right around launch? They would know far enough in advance to adjust their schedules as necessary.

 

I am not saying you are wrong. (I don't know if there are managers working overnight or not.) I'm just saying that if BW's thinking is "we won't do 24/7 invites because managers work normal business hours," there is something wrong.

[Rajhiim]

If today was the 15th... I'd agree, but since we're still early on the early access = bonus. I suspect it'll pick up steam as we press towards the 15th and 20th.

 

Yes, Captain Obvious is Obvious.

[Gauvi]

But they don't know how the servers will do on the 20th since they never got the numbers for everything working at full load, since they slowly let everyone in, and never had a load peak like they're looking at for launch.

 

If they're watching a low-load server for stability to see how it acts, how are they going to be able to fix a high-load server if they don't see how that reacts until launch day?

 

They already have a pretty good estimation of how the servers will do on the 20th.

That's what the beta week-ends and stress tests were for.

 

And again, I think they might let all pre-orders in by Saturday. This way, they have a few days left to take care of unforeseen problems.

 

Why shouldn't managers work overnight - at least right around launch? They would know far enough in advance to adjust their schedules as necessary.

 

I am not saying you are wrong. (I don't know if there are managers working overnight or not.) I'm just saying that if BW's thinking is "we won't do 24/7 invites because managers work normal business hours," there is something wrong.

 

I agree that managers not coming to work while technicians do, that's a bit unfair.

However, you can't really separate the higher ups in several teams and have them decide separately.

This is a big ramp up for a big game, being cautious and having several people decide on important decisions makes much more sense.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Gauvi

[lukeoda]

I foresee a future where staggered early access becomes the norm and early access is awarded on a first come, first serve pre-order basis.

 

Upon getting accustomed to this system the gaming community creates such a huge demand for 1st minute pre-orders that online supplier's sites crash, & retailers fail to deliver sufficient orders and pre-order codes.

 

Thus staggered early access for purchasing your pre-order gets implemented. This staggered early access is obviously on a first come first serve basis based on when you registered your pre-order to pre-order code.

 

Total efficiency will have then been achieved.

[Daeborn]

Having a staggered launch isnt necessarily a problem, its how Bioware is managing things that is.

 

Complaining about how "Early Access" is being done months after "Everyone" knew how it was to be implemented is the high of crybabbyness.

 

Get over it or don't play, either way works for me.

 

Early Access is a privilege, not a right. You and everyone else who bought the game knew how it was being done. If you didn't read the terms on Early Access then you're lazy or lacking foresight.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Daeborn

[Novius]

The real problem here is Speculation. Not only does it add to the fear mongering that is going on but adding stress and anxiety on top of it. People need to let Bioware do their thing and not get so over worked for a game. Don't you have Skyrim to finish btw?

[Turando]

Here is the problem. BW could invite you inside of their HQ and you could get the grand reveal that everything BW is hiding, all its dirty little secrets, conspiracies, mistakes, etc. AND YOU WOULD STILL ***** and MOAN. Griefers will always be griefers, there is no appeasing you except to provide you with a forum to vent.

 

It doesn't make any sense for BW us to promise specific time slots given the goals of the EGA. Could imagine the tears if we were promised specific times and they were 2 seconds late? They are not that stupid. They are gradually rolling it out to maintain stability and level populations.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/devtracker.php

 

READ.

[SnakeCL]

They already have a pretty good estimation of how the servers will do on the 20th.

That's what the beta week-ends and stress tests were for.

 

And again, I think they might let all pre-orders in by Saturday. This way, they have a few days left to take care of unforeseen problems.

 

Ah, but if they had that data, then they'd also have the low-pop data for long-term stability. Which is supposedly the reason they've had the servers at low-pop for hours now.

 

Even if they did let all pre-orders in on Saturday, its not going to be accurate, since they've spent 5 days letting people in spaced across that. Having 3 million people playing, but spreading out character creation and auth server login is quite different from having 3 million people at the same time slamming the login server on launch morning, cold turkey.

 

That's the crux of the issue I'm having. They postponed the "bang" to have a good pre-launch, and made the launch something that they're going to have to guess at.

 

And by their own admission, they don't have the proper data on long-term server stability, something they should have from all that beta testa and stress testing they did. If they can't use that data from beta, why would stress-testing info be of any use to them?

[SnakeCL]

Complaining about how "Early Access" is being done months after "Everyone" knew how it was to be implemented is the high of crybabbyness.

 

Get over it or don't play, either way works for me.

 

Early Access is a privilege, not a right. You and everyone else who bought the game knew how it was being done. If you didn't read the terms on Early Access then you're lazy or lacking foresight.

 

These are the exact types of replies I mentioned earlier. They have nothing to do with the subject, and don't answer any issues. They simply resort to a personal attack, call someone a crybaby, and add nothing to the discussion.

 

The issue is, we did not know how "Early Access" was going to be implemented. How many waves a day? How many people in each wave? What dates are being going to be allowed to enter?

 

All of these questions could have been answered, easily, even in non-absolute terms (% of preorders for instance), and it would have done much to stop the whining and complaining on the forums. A simple "only the first 10% will get in today, followed by another 25% the next day) would have sufficed. There still would have been a horde of whining, but a minute amount compared the what went on yesterday.

Edited December 14, 2011 by SnakeCL
whoops meant to tag this onto the last post, instead of making a new reply, apologies for the double-post

[ExiledOne]

Yet people wonder why developers have open betas for their games.

 

Precisely to test situations LIKE "gold release day mass log in" to adjust their software to expect and compensate for it.

 

Limited number inviting in a highly anticipated mmorpg is not very forward thinking, at least not total big picture, they even admitted they have no idea how the severs will act with large population over a week.

 

Well maybe if you had an open beta for a month you'd have gathered that metric data now wouldn't you?

 

 

I was upset, I don't really care anymore, I just find the logic in doing things differently versus things that have worked in the past to be a bit foolhardy.

 

The whole point of testing is to break the product in every way conceivable, and some you would never think of that testers come up with, so that when you get to this point (pre-release to launch) you don't HAVE to stagger anything.

 

Why buck the system when it works?

[Ezren]

They already have a pretty good estimation of how the servers will do on the 20th.

That's what the beta week-ends and stress tests were for.

 

And again, I think they might let all pre-orders in by Saturday. This way, they have a few days left to take care of unforeseen problems.

 

 

 

I agree that managers not coming to work while technicians do, that's a bit unfair.

However, you can't really separate the higher ups in several teams and have them decide separately.

This is a big ramp up for a big game, being cautious and having several people decide on important decisions makes much more sense.

 

See right here your entering into a loop in logic.

 

If they know the servers can handle the load on the 20th based on the beta, then why the need for the slow ramping up to see how the servers handle things.

 

Its akin to someone having a pre-grand opening weekend for a restaurant that seats 500, filling it up and it going smoothly, then on opening night limiting reservations to 50. It makes NO LOGICAL SENSE. It should be done in the REVERSE order if the goal is to accurately test how you handle the pressure of a full load.

[Darth_Conan]

Having a staggered launch isnt necessarily a problem, its how Bioware is managing things that is.

 

Heres a few nice examples why.

 

- They know damn well when they will invite us yet they refuse to inform us as to roughly when we can expect our invite.

 

- Its a well known fact they have groups working in 24h shifts to ensure the best launch possible (or at least thats what they say). Heres even a quote from Stephen Reid.

''The Live Services team is working in shifts (24 hours a day, 7 days a week) for the next month to ensure that servers stay up, player population is well managed, issues are triaged, problems are communicated and bugs are fixed as fast as possible.

 

After that, we're on-call 24/7 for the life of the game.''

 

So why exactly do we get a 18h gap between every 4 or 5 waves?

 

- Not to mention the servers have been sitting on low pop for hours upon hours (check out the server status http://www.swtor.com/server-status). If you look around youll even see plenty of people that have come forward about how theres barely anybody to group with in-game or how some are exploiting the low pop (BGs powerleveling?)

And even if the servers do get filled up we had an open beta just weeks ago where Bioware had some nice stress testing done. On top of that they even have a zone instancing system in place to ensure that the zones dont become overpopulated.

 

All i see is poor desicion making on Biowares part.

 

Truth. If they were really working 24/7 there wouldn't be 18hr gaps with no one playing and such low server pops. Obviously they aren't fixing bugs and dealing with exploits, as we all know about the pvp exploit at this point. And they aren't letting more waves in during that 18hr gap. So what are they doing? Congratulating themselves on making a lot of money off pre-orders. Tonight they'll be wasting time putting on shows to congratulate themselves, as if we gave a flying f***. We just want our promised access.

 

And for all you in-game and out of game trolls talking about entitlement...we PAID FOR THIS WITH MONEY! THAT ENTITLES US TO IT! PERIOD! AUGUST TENTH PRE-ORDER! I SHOULD BE PLAYING! SO S*** IT!

[Herik]

So far the customer service sucks, the communication is nil and the entire experience leaves a bad taste.

 

 

I am glad we did not sign up for second account yet despite how much the beta was good.

 

 

Unless I can start on a completely new server, this is a waste for me.

[Gauvi]

Even if they did let all pre-orders in on Saturday, its not going to be accurate, since they've spent 5 days letting people in spaced across that. Having 3 million people playing, but spreading out character creation and auth server login is quite different from having 3 million people at the same time slamming the login server on launch morning, cold turkey.

 

That's true but I don't think everyone will be there on the 20th hammering the login server.

With the EGA, people that got in on the 13th and throughout EGA are less likely to be there trying to log in on the 20th (at least much less than those who did not get pre-orders). By spreading out the load throughout the days before actual launch, I'm fairly confident this will lead to less people on launch day because many people have started enjoying the game already.

 

That's the crux of the issue I'm having. They postponed the "bang" to have a good pre-launch, and made the launch something that they're going to have to guess at.

 

This is only a guess on their part but nothing says it will be a bang on launch day. EGA might have lessened that to a certain extent.

 

And by their own admission, they don't have the proper data on long-term server stability, something they should have from all that beta testa and stress testing they did. If they can't use that data from beta, why would stress-testing info be of any use to them?

 

With the stress test, they know how much they can handle at one point in time.

Then you can scale that data up, in time, to see how much you can fare in the long run.

This is only an estimated guess but there is no real way to test unless you have millions of people on your server.

All in all, I think they have enough data, at least to handle a few million people for a few days.

This is also why there are scheduled maintenance: about the time they have the feeling that servers are not going to make it, schedule a maintenance and voila

 

See right here your entering into a loop in logic.

If they know the servers can handle the load on the 20th based on the beta, then why the need for the slow ramping up to see how the servers handle things.

 

Because stress testing (one big load at one point in time) and slow ramp up over time, are two different things.

With both, you can start guessing how the servers will do with tons of people in the long run. Otherwise, they would have had to make a beta stress week (month?), with millions of people involved etc

That's not really practical (because they can't open the game one full week/month for free, to millions of people, bad for business you know...) unless you're already on launch day, with paying customers.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Gauvi

[kikleon]

Complaining about how "Early Access" is being done months after "Everyone" knew how it was to be implemented is the high of crybabbyness.

 

Get over it or don't play, either way works for me.

 

Early Access is a privilege, not a right. You and everyone else who bought the game knew how it was being done. If you didn't read the terms on Early Access then you're lazy or lacking foresight.

 

Don't believe it was ever explicitly mentioned that they wouldn't tell people ahead of time when they were going to be let in. I pre-ordered back in august and assumed that a day or so before EGA started they would have the data to say "Ok 20% of players will be let in each day, and that means everyone who registered before Month/Date/Time will be in on day one, Month/Date/Time will be in on day two...."

 

Yes some people are complaining that bioware is doing exactly what they said they would do, some people are complaining about a supposed pvp leveling 'exploit' in purposefully causing games to load without enough people (if it was only a population issue then the games wouldn't be starting. It has to be co-ordinated enough to atleast have the # of people required to start a game Q up, and then just not join.), but this isn't a complaint about the idea behind a staggered launch. It's a complaint about the specific way BW is handling it.

[TexKSAH]

But your missing the point.

 

If the servers are going to crash I want them to crash NOW.

 

A steady, slow stream of invites would be smarter than 18 hour breaks between them. It ramps up slow, which is what they wanted.

 

Honestly I never thought they would do it this way. Based on what they said before hand, I and a lot of people thought, rolling waves of invites 24/7.

 

If no servers crash at all doing this very slow measured invites, whats going to happen when they go down on the 19th and EVERYONE can log in at once on 20th at midnight? Stop and consider that.

 

You want the beating to happen now, during early access, because its more expected. Come launch a server blowing up will be worse....trust me.

 

I think it's you that is missing the point. Is it your $180M investment in this game? Is it your servers? Is it your CS reps on the phone ramping up? Is it your developers that want to load up 300,000 users at a time and monitor it for 18-20 hours? Is it your DECISION?

 

NO. It's not. At some point in your life you will need to accept that the world does not revolve around you and some people or companies will make decisions you do not like and you cannot change that. Learn to live with it, or die young of stress induced issues.