maradigamer Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 No responses from the legion of sith sorc's? Uh huh. Here's a response: Maybe it's because I'm low level, but damage is the last thing on my mind when I play my sorc. I like the utility the class brings, the ability to 'bubble' other players, the ability to cc and to some extent, the healing ability. The class is so much more than dps and I hope it stays that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izini Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Sorcs crying for commando/merc nerfs. Mercs/commandos crying for scoundrel/sin burst nerf. Scoundrels/sins crying for sorc nerfs. It never ends. Stop QQing, learn to play. Game is more or less well balanced, at most, some classes need some minor (and I repeat, MINOR tweaks). Nuff said! balance is pretty good. I agree there needs to be some tweaks but only minor ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Here's a response: Maybe it's because I'm low level, but damage is the last thing on my mind when I play my sorc. I like the utility the class brings, the ability to 'bubble' other players, the ability to cc and to some extent, the healing ability. The class is so much more than dps and I hope it stays that way. My favorite class in EQ2 that i played and raided with for years was a Illusionist,utility is fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlamorel Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 In my opinion these are the strongest pvp classes in the game. No one should talk about any other classes till Sorc/sage are brought in line with other classes. Look at WZ stats you will see Sorc/sage at the top of the list. I've played matches where I see these classes with over 400k heals and 200k damage from the same toon. Not to mention it's the fastest class in the game, can knock you back and off of platforms, can bubble and heal itself to the point where you can't kill them. Oh, I forgot to mention that they are the only class in the game that never seems to run out of force/energy or what ever you want to call it. BW this is the class that needs to be looked at over all others. Until you get these balanced pvp will be a problem. After this class next on the list is BH/commando then backstabbing op/scoundrel. As a sage, I completely agree with your post regarding our ability to do great dmg AND heals in a single warzone. This deserves investigation. I don't feel your issue with knockback holds much weight, though. To my understanding, Sentinel/Marauder (or whatever Sith's is called) "force charge" ability is on a 15 second cooldown, whereas our knockback is on a 20 second cooldown. In other words, the counterability to our knockback refreshes faster than our knockback. I think this is very balanced, personally. This is just one example, of course, but my point is that while your're right regarding our DPS/Healing combination, some other things you mentioned seemed to be effortlessly tacked on to make us seem more OP than we really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drin-King Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 In my opinion these are the strongest pvp classes in the game. No one should talk about any other classes till Sorc/sage are brought in line with other classes. Look at WZ stats you will see Sorc/sage at the top of the list. I've played matches where I see these classes with over 400k heals and 200k damage from the same toon. Not to mention it's the fastest class in the game, can knock you back and off of platforms, can bubble and heal itself to the point where you can't kill them. Oh, I forgot to mention that they are the only class in the game that never seems to run out of force/energy or what ever you want to call it. BW this is the class that needs to be looked at over all others. Until you get these balanced pvp will be a problem. After this class next on the list is BH/commando then backstabbing op/scoundrel. It's empty damage. DoT's you can heal through. We do run out. We just run round a corner and Seethe. Knockback is same as 'Sin knockback. We need the speed boost, or we'd die to every single melee class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jellOfish Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 As a sage, I completely agree with your post regarding our ability to do great dmg AND heals in a single warzone. This deserves investigation. I don't feel your issue with knockback holds much weight, though. To my understanding, Sentinel/Marauder (or whatever Sith's is called) "force charge" ability is on a 15 second cooldown, whereas our knockback is on a 20 second cooldown. In other words, the counterability to our knockback refreshes faster than our knockback. I think this is very balanced, personally. This is just one example, of course, but my point is that while your're right regarding our DPS/Healing combination, some other things you mentioned seemed to be effortlessly tacked on to make us seem more OP than we really are. Yeah, but the problem then becomes the snares and knockbacks from other sorcs as there are usually 2-4. It should be single target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlamorel Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Yeah, but the problem then becomes the snares and knockbacks from other sorcs as there are usually 2-4. It should be single target. Fair enough. My best tip for you in the meantime is to make sure you stay in the very middle of the grates/platforms, because if you're on the middle knockback won't knock you off. Also, don't put your back to fire/acid pools in Huttball and that will help you not get knocked in. Hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbathius Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Sorc/Sage DOES need to be nerfed. And yes, I play one. The main reason is that they're the only class that really doesn't need to worry about resource management. As an Operative, I have to watch energy and tactical advantage count.As a Marauder, I have to watch action points and rage counter.As a Bounty Hunter (have both PT and Merc), I have to watch my heat.Etc., etc. But as Sorcerer I never even look at my resource bar. I have 700 force when the fight starts, and in PvP either I am dead or whatever I am fighting is dead LOOONG before that force is depleted. That is completely unfair, and totally unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheldrake Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I am a sage, and Im sorry I cant pull off the insta *** omg youre dead crap that the operatives are doing at even very low levels. We are starting to see whole teams of operatives exploiting this broken class. The only way I can *** PWN whole groups of people at a time is when they let me stand off and fire nuke after nuke after nuke, and yea you will eventually die if you dont have a healer, but it takes 1 lvl 14'ish Operative to plant me in the ground. Any other class gets a fight if hes close in to me but I generally have to try very hard regardles of level to fend off a melee class, or BH on my own. So I see some balance in the game. Healers cannot always keep me up because I am so squishy even at level 50. But holy $$$$ getting hit for 3500 three times in a row from an operative with what seems like no cooldown is just not cool. I routinely kill Sages and Sorcerers, and it rare that one *** owns me like even the low level operative can. A level 50 geard operative is insane. There was one in our battleground last night that we couldnt kill. And he would kill most people in a few seconds. Does this stop me form PVP'ing? No? Am I going to quit the game because of this? No Are operatives going to be primaried and hopefully get some serious payback in the future. Hell yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBloom Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I don't get it, what aren't we in balance with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soazak Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 As a sage, I completely agree with your post regarding our ability to do great dmg AND heals in a single warzone. This deserves investigation. I don't feel your issue with knockback holds much weight, though. To my understanding, Sentinel/Marauder (or whatever Sith's is called) "force charge" ability is on a 15 second cooldown, whereas our knockback is on a 20 second cooldown. In other words, the counterability to our knockback refreshes faster than our knockback. I think this is very balanced, personally. This is just one example, of course, but my point is that while your're right regarding our DPS/Healing combination, some other things you mentioned seemed to be effortlessly tacked on to make us seem more OP than we really are. They cannot DPS and Heal effectively. It's an either/or situation. You obviously don't play a Sage, or understand their skill trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheldrake Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Another thing that I have noticed being a new level 50 is that my stats are being lowered in battlegrounds. I swear I used to have MORE hitpoints than I have now so my experience will most likely change once I can gear up. So if you are complaining about a LvlL 50 sorc or sage in full battlemaster gear vs one wearing lvl 47-49 gear just know that there is a night and day difference between the two. A sage can do both dps and heal but it is a severly gimped build with serious resource issues. He would have to regain mana via dps, or healing, but cant do it both ways. If he goes to far up in the healing tree he gimps his DPS, and same for the DPS tree. Again if youre looking at Sages in full battlemaster gear topping the DPS and heal charts then that is totally another issue. I can attest any class with that gear is nuts. Edited January 9, 2012 by Wheldrake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felene Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Sorc/Sage DOES need to be nerfed. And yes, I play one. The main reason is that they're the only class that really doesn't need to worry about resource management. As an Operative, I have to watch energy and tactical advantage count. As a Marauder, I have to watch action points and rage counter. As a Bounty Hunter (have both PT and Merc), I have to watch my heat. Etc., etc. But as Sorcerer I never even look at my resource bar. I have 700 force when the fight starts, and in PvP either I am dead or whatever I am fighting is dead LOOONG before that force is depleted. That is completely unfair, and totally unacceptable. 700 force! Where is that talent I must have miss it, dame that is OP. /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBloom Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 They cannot DPS and Heal effectively. It's an either/or situation. You obviously don't play a Sage, or understand their skill trees. This is true, it requires a large sacrifice of one to be truly effective in the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRISGG Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 dying to a DPS sorc/sage in group combat is frankly embarrassing and you're just outing yourself by posting as such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soazak Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Sorc/Sage DOES need to be nerfed. And yes, I play one. The main reason is that they're the only class that really doesn't need to worry about resource management. As an Operative, I have to watch energy and tactical advantage count. As a Marauder, I have to watch action points and rage counter. As a Bounty Hunter (have both PT and Merc), I have to watch my heat. Etc., etc. But as Sorcerer I never even look at my resource bar. I have 700 force when the fight starts, and in PvP either I am dead or whatever I am fighting is dead LOOONG before that force is depleted. That is completely unfair, and totally unacceptable. Of course they need to manage their resource. They may not have tiers of regeneration but the 600 force they have still runs out fast. Proper use of Force Bending is neccesary if you want to heal properly. If you're not using this, your team mates are simply not staying alive long enough for resource to be an issue, or your team is not taking enough damage to warrant healing and at that point any/no healer is sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRISGG Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) As an Operative, I have to watch energy and tactical advantage count. As a Marauder, I have to watch action points and rage counter. As a Bounty Hunter (have both PT and Merc), I have to watch my heat. Etc., etc. The only one of these thats true is Marauder. Operatives effectively have infinite energy due to 0 cost backstab and fully talented stim boost. Mercenaries can't cap heat realistically in a pvp situation unless they're really dumb and use horrible spells like Missile Blast due to a couple of arsenal talents. PT's can't cap heat because their filler is rapid shots since ion pulse sucks so they have plenty of free time to regen. I run out of force all the time. If you don't, you're just slow and not using all of your gcds, period. Edited January 9, 2012 by CHRISGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KorwinOfAmber Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Sorc/Sage is a weakest class as far i am concerned - its DPSer (but its sustained DPS not burst). Its good healer, but not really great 1on1 char (apart from escaping) or burster compared to other classes. The only reason he is high in damage charts at warzones (which mean litterally nothing of its effectivity) - is because he can swiftly land affinity dots on the crowd of people (which are generally speaking useless combat wise, but contribute A LOT to the total DPS done) and can shoot lightnings and aoe from 30 meters away. Dont be mistaken however to think that those lightnings are what kills you... the damage is pathetic compared to burst classes. Ended todays last warzone with 51 kill on my sorc and i dont even know where those numbers come from - most people i only able to shoot two three spells barely scratching them (Exception being crowd of people fighting melee and me AOEing them from safe spot until someone notices me) - its not like melee or BH where they basically sit on you till you die - contributing to your death from when they encounter you to the end. Whenever Sorc gets noticed - he runs away, fighting would be stupid. Thus its a sustained DPS class that can deal a lot of total damage, that on practice however means little (except for well landed AoEs) as most of it is healed, not fatal e.t.c. Why i like sorc is utility though - slow, jolt, shield, aoe knockback, stun: it have lots of tools to help team mates. However i repeat - in most cases, Sorc is not the class that does actual killing (unless you for some reason ignore him while he casts at you for like 20 seconds...) Sorc shield is great, but theres little thing about it - it can be spammable and cast at all your team mates, thus benefiting whole team a lot. Its "unfair" when Sorc has a shield but "fair" when same shield is cast by sorc on you, giving you same benefits? Crying about shield is stupid - its a team ability. Its just most sorcs in pugs are too centured on damage to even think about casting it on someone else (healer sorcs do though, can spam it indifenetely). Next point would be sorc "healing". People tend to talk about a uber DPS machine, with superb healing and survivibility. Which is simply not true. DPS Sorcs heals are useless - point, end. The only heal he get is 2.5 second cast Dark heal thats impossible to use in combat and heals only moderate amount of hp. So if sorc output insane damage on you, he cant outheal your damage - if you met a sorc that heals for a lot, its healer - his damage is even more gimped than normal sorc. In opposite of what people tend to say, pug teams with lots of sorcs SUCKS. Its like the worst combination - sorcerrer is in essense support class and relyes on others doing the tanking, charging and actual killing while he delivers constant range DPS from a far or heals allies. About the only class that should have troubles with sorc (not troubles chasing and killing sorc, its hard. But troubles killing him if he decides to stay on place and accept the fight) is Juggernaut/Guardian. Than again, its also the hardest for sorc class to kill because of their survivibility so its a stale mate. Edited January 9, 2012 by KorwinOfAmber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surgin Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Sorc/Sage is a weakest class as far i am concerned I got that far, laughed then stopped. tl:dr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zantul Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 lol dont be silly BH merc is the most op class then the sage . Sorc gets eaten up by the sagwe everytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KorwinOfAmber Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 When you are claiming Sorc and Sage are overpowered, please keep in mind that the HEALING spec sorc and sage are NOT the problem. The problem you are seeing is from DPS spec'd sorcs & sages, because they still get Force Armor making them quite a bit tougher then a regular DPS class. I am sure there are other things contributing too. I just do not want to see the healing sorc/sages get nerfed because the DPS ones are ridiculous. Force Shield is a team buff. Any decent sorc will also cast it at team mates and yourself, healer sorc would cast it on everyone by default. How can you complain about an ability thats used to protect EVERYONE in team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jellOfish Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Fair enough. My best tip for you in the meantime is to make sure you stay in the very middle of the grates/platforms, because if you're on the middle knockback won't knock you off. Also, don't put your back to fire/acid pools in Huttball and that will help you not get knocked in. Hope that helps It's easier said then done, trust me Watching rage/fury, maintaining CD's, making sure you are in melee range, etc. it is sometimes hard to watch also positioning While all the sorc has to do is nuke from distance and if something gets close just press one button. If it gets close again, pop snare and the absorb shield and off you go. I don't mean to whine, I enjoy my marauder. But some classes should really try to play melee in PvP before saying their class is "fine". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KorwinOfAmber Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I got that far, laughed then stopped. tl:dr Good thing it amused you. However fact stays the fact, in team pvp with limited slots some classes are just useless as other are much more effective. This means DPS sorc is out from any decent team - he is useless compared to other classes that could do same job. Only needed Sorc is Healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zantul Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Good thing it amused you. However fact stays the fact, in team pvp with limited slots some classes are just useless as other are much more effective. This means DPS sorc is out from any decent team - he is useless compared to other classes that could do same job. Only needed Sorc is Healer. I agree sorc dmg is great for sustained damage but no where near the real DPS classes. Sorcx is not a DPS class they just can keep the dps up for a time. Hence sustained DPS Anyone calling the sorceror a DPS class and calling for a nerf is just nuts.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muradi Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 As a guardian my easiest targets are sorcs.Their dmg is fluff even in dps spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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