Vilda Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 According to this http://www.swtor.com/blog/some-clarifications-item-modifications post, we should be able to pick our look from orange items and through mods make it viable for all our gameplay. But according to my knowledge, this is not true, for several reasons. - set bonuses - for 2 and 4 items, still it provide bonus orange gear will not- augment slot - critically crafted gear will contain slot for augmet, but there is yet to be proved, that orange items can even be critically crafted. No one was yet able to produce proof of orange item with augment slot. Now, I really hope someone will contradict me about orange gear, but set bonuses are not compeatable. It just a little bit of disappointment, I had hoped, that we'll not all look like a clones at endgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGreenGames Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 It doesn't have to be orange to be moddable. All the endgame sets have set bonuses and mod slots. Why do you need them to have an orange background to be cooler than the others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psylos Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 It doesn't have to be orange to be moddable. All the endgame sets have set bonuses and mod slots. Why do you need them to have an orange background to be cooler than the others? That doesn't solve the "clone" problem the OP was refering to. What we really need is cosmetic slots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilda Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 It doesn't have to be orange to be moddable. All the endgame sets have set bonuses and mod slots. Why do you need them to have an orange background to be cooler than the others? Because orange gear has ALL slots open, other items have armoring slot locked. That doesn't solve the "clone" problem the OP was refering to. What we really need is cosmetic slots... I agree, that vanity slots are possible solution (and I've heard through grapevine that they are in development), but they solve only that custom look part. There was certain "promise", that modable gear will be on par with top level items and viable way to be on top. At current build and if I am not mistaken, it is not so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isnotrachel Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Either cosmetic slots or they take the step which would make their version of appearance customization work as intended by both: 1) Unlocking the armoring mod in endgame loot like it was originally designed. 2) Bind any mod coming out of endgame loot to the item slot it was removed from. Looking at the dev's own example, instead of someone looting the same boots over and over and placing the mods throughout their armor set, when they remove those mods from the boots they can ONLY go into a pair of boots. Users all over this forum and the beta forum prelaunch all see this as the best solution, but since breaking their own system BioWare seems to be ignoring the issue. Heck, to take it further if they wanted they could make the set bonus come via the mod set instead of the armor itself. Yes, when they broke it there was some improvement by simplifying the total number of mod options, but instead they destroyed the promise of their armor customization and almost any piece becoming end game viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilda Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 1) Unlocking the armoring mod in endgame loot like it was originally designed. I don't agree, reason why armoring slot was locked is very much valid and to the point. But set bonus coming from armoring mod is actually quite a good idea. Locking mods to specific armor slots would create all sorts of problems, starting with programming ones. Its just not viable to store all that information about piece of mod. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wisz_Rethon Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 taking a purple end game loot, make ir reverse engineerable and have it keep it's set bonus once re'd into a orange item.. sound outlandish doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandzibar Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) I want to use X orange peices as its a custom look im happy with. Unfortunately im forced to use Z PvP gear as it has both:a) armour rating / expertise locked to a mod that cannot be removed.b) A set bonus that also cannot be transfered. Both these points make using my beloved Orange set unfeasible, if i want to remain competitve. Orange items now only useful for leveling 1-49 Once the majority of people hit level 50, all crafting - save for biochem - becomes seemingly redundant. The custom crafting / moddable items was a really nice idea.. being able to tailor the look and stats of your gear as you see fit. Its just a massive shame that the devs then do the lazy thing, and copy the terrible "set bonus/resiliance" mechanic from that other game - thus negating all the hard work they put in creating this crafting system. The mind boggles. Edited January 9, 2012 by Sandzibar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilda Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Once the majority of people hit level 50, all crafting - save for biochem - becomes seemingly redundant. I keep hearing this and I have to wonder, if people just don't look at their future schematics or my Synthweaving is only exception. I can craft RAKATA armor. And because it can be crafted critical, it is THE best gear currently available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rheia Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Yep. Orange gear is sadly only viable up to the point where you stop levelling and start end game. 4 piece sets + critted purple drop schematic craft for select pieces are the way to go for the rest. I've ranted enough about how both pvp and pve sets look like UTTER GARBAGE, but I suppose I'll say that once again. They look like utter garbage. And the only way to be effective endgame, one must disregard any sense of aethetics and subscribe to one designer's questionable artistic vision. =(. I realize that I will sound childish when I'll say this, but I will not be resuming my subscription if the situation is not remedied. I refuse to pay to play the game where my character is forced to be ugly in order to enjoy post story content. Edited January 9, 2012 by rheia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tufy Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) But according to my knowledge, this is not true, for several reasons. - set bonuses - for 2 and 4 items, still it provide bonus orange gear will not - augment slot - critically crafted gear will contain slot for augmet, but there is yet to be proved, that orange items can even be critically crafted. No one was yet able to produce proof of orange item with augment slot. While I don't directly disagree with you, there are two things to note: 1. set bonuses are relatively weak and will in most cases be ignoreable if we can get better gear together from random pieces. 2. Custom armor is not equal to bonuses in "normal" raid gear. For instance, Mastercraft Resolve Armoring 25 (crit version of cybertech-made armor that requires raid drops) has 49 endurance/68 willpower, while the built-in "normal" raid armor has either 41 endurance/61 willpower or 55 endurance/51 willpower. Long story short, stat-wise, you'll be better off with orange gear and custom armoring. If orange gear can be crit upon on top of this, then it's no contest - purple items will be easier to come by, but orange items will be the superior ones in the long run. Edited January 9, 2012 by tufy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilda Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 1. set bonuses are relatively weak and will in most cases be ignoreable if we can get better gear together from random pieces. Which we can't. 2. Custom armor is not equal to bonuses in "normal" raid gear. For instance, Mastercraft Resolve Armoring 25 (crit version of cybertech-made armor that requires raid drops) has 49 endurance/68 willpower, while the built-in "normal" raid armor has either 41 endurance/61 willpower or 55 endurance/51 willpower. Long story short, stat-wise, you'll be better off with orange gear and custom armoring. I believe this is database only information? Because ingame, there are no craftable mods higher than level 49. If somebody dropped some better schematics from operation, he's not telling. Also, I can be wrong, but all highlevel crafted purple items are Bind on Pickup. (Which is something I cant understand with crafting skill). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MareLooke Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) I don't agree, reason why armoring slot was locked is very much valid and to the point. But set bonus coming from armoring mod is actually quite a good idea. Locking mods to specific armor slots would create all sorts of problems, starting with programming ones. Its just not viable to store all that information about piece of mod. . You must know a lot more than me about SWToR's code, because storing that information is perfectly viable from a purely technical point of view. In fact they would only need to store as much information as they do know, just different information. The easiest way is to just make an epic mod, say a boots mod, BoP and only usable on Boots and unlock the armor slot. They already store this information for other gear (othewise you'd be able to wear your helmet on your feet...) and I assume they store mods together with the rest of the gear, so the option to store this information should already be there. That and moving the setbonuses to the armor mods would solve most of the orange gear issues except the lack of an augment slot which I think is also reather easily remedied. Edited January 9, 2012 by MareLooke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilda Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 You must know a lot more than me about SWToR's code, because storing that information is perfectly viable from a purely technical point of view. In fact they would only need to store as much information as they do know, just different information. More about coding in general, it would seem. Lets use Enhancement as an example. Any enhancement can now be used in any place. With your proposed change every enhancement would have to in addition store information which piece of gear it can be insert into (and also affect ALL enhancement currently ingame), checking this variable during every modification attempt, creating confusion on market place and to players in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stillnotking Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) 1. set bonuses are relatively weak and will in most cases be ignoreable if we can get better gear together from random pieces. That isn't true across the board. Operative Medics get +15% crit to one of our primary heals and a 20% cost reduction on our AOE heal. Those aren't trivial bonuses. 2. Custom armor is not equal to bonuses in "normal" raid gear. For instance, Mastercraft Resolve Armoring 25 (crit version of cybertech-made armor that requires raid drops) has 49 endurance/68 willpower, while the built-in "normal" raid armor has either 41 endurance/61 willpower or 55 endurance/51 willpower. Long story short, stat-wise, you'll be better off with orange gear and custom armoring. If orange gear can be crit upon on top of this, then it's no contest - purple items will be easier to come by, but orange items will be the superior ones in the long run. Orange gear can't be crit crafted. There are crafted Armoring mods that are about equal to Columi gear, but they are extremely difficult to come by (they require Rakata Energy Nodes which only drop from hard mode/nightmare mode Soa, while Columi can be obtained from flashpoints/normal mode ops), and Rakata gear is still better anyway. Long story short, we will be seeing Attack of the Clones very shortly as people start gearing up. It's already happening, in fact. Edited January 9, 2012 by Stillnotking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MareLooke Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) More about coding in general, it would seem. This discussion has very little to do with programming and everything with databases, so your petty insult is pretty much invalid. Lets use Enhancement as an example. Any enhancement can now be used in any place. With your proposed change every enhancement would have to in addition store information which piece of gear it can be insert into (and also affect ALL enhancement currently ingame), checking this variable during every modification attempt, creating confusion on market place and to players in general. You started by failing at reading, for starters I was proposing this change ONLY for locked mods (so raid/pvp mods that are currently locked, so only barrel/hilt/armor on those types of gear) which wouldn't be much more than 100 items currently which, if you knew anything about databases, you'd realized is as good as nothing. They already have to store that information for other items, iow there is nothing extra to be stored (depending on how their database is structured, which you won't know any better than me I would think), all they have to do is add that property to the item (a capability they should already have given other features in the game). Also there were many more different mod types during beta linked to different gear types etc, so the capability is/was already there. If only done for mods that would otherwise be locked there would be very little confusion and certainly raiders should be able to figure out this kind of stuff: you take it out of an item and are able to put it back into a same type item. (not that this has anything to do with the technical feasibility of the proposal). There also won't be any confusion in the marketplace as those raid mods are BoP anyway, so they can't be traded. tl;dr next time read a bit of what people write before you start posting insults, it helps if you know what they are talking about. Edited January 9, 2012 by MareLooke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glarsaahl Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 i actually love this idea of the currently locked mod slots being opened up but only being able to be moved into items of the same type (boots to boots etc). it wouldnt affect any of the other mods ingame and would allow me to use my orange gear that i spent some time getting together with an appearance i liked. i really hope this could be implimented in the near future as i think the mod system is a great idea just, imo, needs a few tweaks, such as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambros Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Persoanlly think how BW went with upgradeable gear is utter crap. They should have went the route that many companies did and that was transfer stats route. Make Cybertech mods function just like the JCer in WoW that allows a bit of customization of gear and put in mod slots on regular gear, think sockets, pertaining to blue quality and above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthis Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Also, I can be wrong, but all highlevel crafted purple items are Bind on Pickup. (Which is something I cant understand with crafting skill). That's the reward for spending the time/money on leveling the profession. Artifice gives nice relics for example.. it's been that way in MMOs for a long time, there is always something exclusive to the crafter. Otherwise why bother crafting.. just farm cash a wait for some other mug to spend all their cash on leveling a profession and buy it off them at just above material costs (which is where stuff always settles out eventually). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drebble Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 That's the reward for spending the time/money on leveling the profession. Artifice gives nice relics for example.. it's been that way in MMOs for a long time, there is always something exclusive to the crafter. Otherwise why bother crafting.. just farm cash a wait for some other mug to spend all their cash on leveling a profession and buy it off them at just above material costs (which is where stuff always settles out eventually). Thats wierd, I thought the reward for mastering a crafting profession would be making money selling my products to other players. If crafting is only about BoPs then why have crafting at all - just make it a system where you pay 1,000,000 credits, wait two weeks and then get the bop items mailed to you. I mean the difference between farming credits and grinding crafting is negligeble in principle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macheath Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) The bottom line is, BioWare could restrict the mods found in "purple" items to that type of item, IE. chest/legs/feet/hands/head, and tie set bonuses to those mods. Not only could they do that (it's actually not that many items when you think about it, since purple items only make an appearance at end-game) but it would give the players almost exactly what they want (it would be exactly what the players want, if BioWare also increased the total number of modifiable items in the game, so we had more options as we leveled, specifically more modifiable legs/hands/feet/head options.) But then, people suggested this back in beta and it was basically ignored. They just did whatever they wanted with the mod system, seemingly without paying much attention to the feedback of the testers. -Macheath. Edited January 9, 2012 by Macheath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malphas Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I think the real discussion here should be that people who care this much about wearing their Twi'lek slave dancer outfit to a raid probably couldn't finish said raid with or without a couple of set bonuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racheakt Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 There was quite a bit of Tester feed back in the beta, mostly ignored. On topic, what we have is the statement from BW that Orange gear is their answer for an appearance tab. Endgame gear form raids and PvP have set bonuses that are not obtainable by maintaining an orange set. The endgame mods and enhancements are removable, just not the armoring mod. IF endgame raids and PvP drops the mods (or they are obtainable) that are equal to the "locked" armoring mod in "purple" gear then you can maintain a set close to endgame due to the lack of set bonuses. Two ideas come to mind to fix what maintaining "orange as an appearance solution": 1. Allow Orange Craftables to crit, augment slots to offset the loss of the set bonuses. 2. Unlock the the epic armoring mod on endgame gear, put the set bonus on that, and make it unique equip (because of the set bonus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilda Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 This discussion has very little to do with programming and everything with databases, so your petty insult is pretty much invalid. There was no insult there. Just valid observation based on your (limited) post which suggest, you don't know how object programming works. Mods are different objects then gear that are included in. They don't share information which character slot they are in because they dont need it. Also, all use the same model, therefore you CAN NOT make differences between PvP/PvE/raid mods. It contradicts very basis of object programming. Disclaimer: All assumptions made in general on basis and generals of OOP, not actual TOR code as I respect professional courtesy and EULA. And as I am moving to OT of my own topic, I stop here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilda Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 That's the reward for spending the time/money on leveling the profession. Artifice gives nice relics for example.. it's been that way in MMOs for a long time, there is always something exclusive to the crafter. Otherwise why bother crafting.. just farm cash a wait for some other mug to spend all their cash on leveling a profession and buy it off them at just above material costs (which is where stuff always settles out eventually). I would think, that reward from crafting is money I get by selling my uber crafted items to other players. With my ego stamp on it. And then buy other uber items from other crafters. Not switching professions to craft all by myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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