Cowflab Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) I have been running Deception in PvE as I usually roll with my 3 other friends and we have a pretty perfect group setup Tank, Healer and 2 DPS. But PvP is a pretty big part of replayability IMO and I just seem to not be able to do much with my build. I can win 1 on 1s pretty consistantly, but survivability is almost non existant in any other situation. I haven't played too much and I could probably make it work, but unlimited huttball makes running around in stealth (which is what I need to do to survive anything at all) rather pointless because you are slower and generally always trying to catch up to the action. I guess my question is, is the 31-0-10 spec viable in PvE as a dps with dps gear? Not doing serious endgame raids or anything really, just random flashpoints and such. But I am level 47 and I haven't even bought 1 PvP bag because of how bad I seem to do in huttball, which makes me not want to PvP. Camp the opponent's goal line in one of the corners while in stealth having 2 of your teammates pass the ball up the field and you won't feel so pointless. You'll be up 3-0 before the other team has to waste 1/3 their team scouring their goal line trying to find you. At least that's what I did when I was deception. Edited January 12, 2012 by Cowflab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight_Malice Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Well thets what I try to do, hang out by thier goalline stealthed and come out of stealth when the ballcarrier can pass, even say in ops chat that im going to do that, nobody seems to know how to pass, in any game I have ever played.... I don't know if it is bad luck or what... but in the 30 or so games Ive played ive been on the winning side maybe 3-4 times. Most of the time my team cant even get control of the ball.... and yeah as a deception sin I know that is my job, get past thier defense and wait for a pass.... the pass never comes If I'm having to play defense bacause my team never gets control I stand in the middle and electrocute the ballcarrier when they run across the firetrap... or if they get past that, I electrocute and start casting wirlwind hoping they burn thier break on the 1st one... thats about all im good for it seems like. Part of it (and probably a pretty big part) is me still getting uesd to PC gaming in general, basically just getting comfortable with keyboard and mouse (I think I said that already in my other post), my reaction time is still pretty slow cause I have to think about some of my key presses still. Edited January 12, 2012 by Midnight_Malice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowflab Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Well thets what I try to do, hang out by thier goalline stealthed and come out of stealth when the ballcarrier can pass, even say in ops chat that im going to do that, nobody seems to know how to pass, in any game I have ever played.... I don't know if it is bad luck or what... but in the 30 or so games Ive played ive been on the winning side maybe 3-4 times. Most of the time my team cant even get control of the ball.... and yeah as a deception sin I know that is my job, get past thier defense and wait for a pass.... the pass never comes If you're solo queueing I know exactly what you mean. Your best bet is to try and find a couple of buddies to play with and use voice chat for easier communication. When I solo queued as deception if I was playing with an incompetent team I'd usually just try to lock up the other teams healers and or ball carrier. Its really your only other option unless you don't care about winning. In which case you can just search around for stragglers and pick them off in 1v1s. Edited January 12, 2012 by Cowflab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight_Malice Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 In which case you can just search around for stragglers and pick them off in 1v1s. Thats usually what I end up doing after we go down 3-0 in like 2 minutes with no sign of teamwork whatsoever. PvE is my main focus, which is why I'm still deception, but I may respec if I find that I can still do decent damage in PvE with the Darkness PvP spec. Wouldn't be a bad idea to have a backup tank available in my group. They don't want to PvP as much, so yeah I'm usually Queing solo.... I do pretty awesome though in the other gametypes though just huttball.... and thats all I have gotten in like a week... Thinking of rolling republic to PvP also so less huttball, but I love my Twi'lek Assassin.... and before I get flammed yes I know part of it for me is L2P so shhh I'm working on it. Been using a keyboard to game for like 2 weeks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collivant Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I use this same build at 50. I just started pvp so I only have 4 pieces of gear and no set bonuses yet, but which pieces did you pick for your survivor and stalker when it comes to set bonus pieces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowflab Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I use this same build at 50. I just started pvp so I only have 4 pieces of gear and no set bonuses yet, but which pieces did you pick for your survivor and stalker when it comes to set bonus pieces? You should be going all stalker with survivor shield generator until PvP mitigation is fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waclawczyk Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Can you use a double bladed LS with a shield generator? I know I'm only level 13 right now, but it won't let me equip a shield generator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I don't even use a shield generator in darkness spec since I have no absorb/shield equipment and shield seems to only work on the weak attacks which I don't really care about. Stealthing at the enemy goal line is a very bad idea in Huttball. It's basically playing 5 on 8 and if the other team is any good, you'll never get the ball past the mid field. The side with the ball can be considered down 2 guys (ball carrier + at least one guy dedicated to protecting him) against any opposition that can provide pressure, and now you've an extra passer who is presumably never engaged by the enemy. A lot of people think they're cute or cool when they pull this but really all that means is your team could play 5 on 8 to pass you the ball at the end, and of course in that case they could've simply killed their way to the enemy goal as well. When it's all said and done, an Assassin still contributes the most by killing guys on the other side compared to any other role he can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowflab Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Can you use a double bladed LS with a shield generator? I know I'm only level 13 right now, but it won't let me equip a shield generator. Yes. It may just be a level restricted item. I never had a problem equipping mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waclawczyk Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I don't even use a shield generator in darkness spec since I have no absorb/shield equipment and shield seems to only work on the weak attacks which I don't really care about. Stealthing at the enemy goal line is a very bad idea in Huttball. It's basically playing 5 on 8 and if the other team is any good, you'll never get the ball past the mid field. The side with the ball can be considered down 2 guys (ball carrier + at least one guy dedicated to protecting him) against any opposition that can provide pressure, and now you've an extra passer who is presumably never engaged by the enemy. A lot of people think they're cute or cool when they pull this but really all that means is your team could play 5 on 8 to pass you the ball at the end, and of course in that case they could've simply killed their way to the enemy goal as well. When it's all said and done, an Assassin still contributes the most by killing guys on the other side compared to any other role he can do. That's nice and all, but I'm more inclined to follow the OPs strats, and he uses one..that's why I was asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waclawczyk Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Yes. It may just be a level restricted item. I never had a problem equipping mine. Thanks. Actually I think I was trying to equip the one my companion uses..which is restricted to him I think..lol. I'm a noob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oktaine Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Nice tips in here guys thanks a lot. I'll be hitting 30 soon, solo que warzones a lot and have been rolling deception. I was thinking of flipping to tank and this may be the answer I've been looking for. Edited January 12, 2012 by Oktaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitterbr Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 I have been running Deception in PvE as I usually roll with my 3 other friends and we have a pretty perfect group setup Tank, Healer and 2 DPS. But PvP is a pretty big part of replayability IMO and I just seem to not be able to do much with my build. I can win 1 on 1s pretty consistantly, but survivability is almost non existant in any other situation. I haven't played too much and I could probably make it work, but unlimited huttball makes running around in stealth (which is what I need to do to survive anything at all) rather pointless because you are slower and generally always trying to catch up to the action. I guess my question is, is the 31-0-10 spec viable in PvE as a dps with dps gear? Not doing serious endgame raids or anything really, just random flashpoints and such. But I am level 47 and I haven't even bought 1 PvP bag because of how bad I seem to do in huttball, which makes me not want to PvP. To answer your last question, you are not a dps by any stretch of the imagination but I have played this setup in heroic flashpoints in the role of a dps (someone else tanking) and we haven't hit the enrage timers so for flashpoints I'd say it is fine. Don't try to pull it off in a raid though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayaleith Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Is this viable as I level up? Or is it a 40+ build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 The real danger with doing DPS in a darkness heavy built is that Energize requires Dark Charge but it's dangerous to use Dark Charge if you're not tanking since you might pull aggro. I guess you'd have to have whoever is tanking shield you to get around the problem, but it's still kind of painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GruulTapul Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You should be going all stalker with survivor shield generator until PvP mitigation is fixed. So does the Armor Part of Expertise not work? I'd really like to know . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowflab Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) So does the Armor Part of Expertise not work? I'd really like to know . Most of the damage in PvP bypasses armor, so I would guess the difference is trivial. Edited January 13, 2012 by Cowflab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowflab Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The real danger with doing DPS in a darkness heavy built is that Energize requires Dark Charge but it's dangerous to use Dark Charge if you're not tanking since you might pull aggro. I guess you'd have to have whoever is tanking shield you to get around the problem, but it's still kind of painful. Yeah, have him guard you, and you guard the healer. As long as you stay away from a threat heavy rotation you should be fine. That is unless the other tank stinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GruulTapul Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Most of the damage in PvP bypasses armor, so I would guess the difference is trivial. From the wording given by the Expertise stat I would have guessed that it absorbs X % from every attack in PvP, but it insteads works like + armor (and thus the two frequent damage types ignore it)? I have no experience with this, since I've only gotten my first Champion Piece today . Anyway, good to know if this is the case . Edited January 13, 2012 by GruulTapul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yeah, have him guard you, and you guard the healer. As long as you stay away from a threat heavy rotation you should be fine. That is unless the other tank stinks. Can't guard another guy while you're being guarded, otherwise that'd be the obvious solution. I assume if you could it can create a situation where two tanks guarded each other and become borderline indestructible in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Most of the damage in PvP bypasses armor, so I would guess the difference is trivial. Armor works fine on PvP damage. Internal/elemental attacks bypass armor, but there are actually relatively few attacks of that element. People tend to forget that lightning is energy, not elemental. PvP Expertise reduction presumably works on everything too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowflab Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Can't guard another guy while you're being guarded, otherwise that'd be the obvious solution. I assume if you could it can create a situation where two tanks guarded each other and become borderline indestructible in PvP. LOL not really, they would be taking add damage from one another and dealing with threat issues, but I digress. I could've sworn that I ran a flashpoint doing this but I may have been tired or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowflab Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Armor works fine on PvP damage. Internal/elemental attacks bypass armor, but there are actually relatively few attacks of that element. People tend to forget that lightning is energy, not elemental. PvP Expertise reduction presumably works on everything too. Doesn't kinetic bypass armor as well? There is an entire AC *cough*operatives*cough* that revolves around that damage type. There is a really good thread written up on it in the PvP section here. You're correct, armor does fine mitigating weapon damage, but there is so little of that type in the PvP metagame that it is in fact trivial. Meaning that a reduction of X% from expertise is a flat reduction of X% regardless of armor rating. Edited January 13, 2012 by Cowflab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paganini Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Interesting spec, it looks like it has a lot of potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitterbr Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Doesn't kinetic bypass armor as well? There is an entire AC *cough*operatives*cough* that revolves around that damage type. There is a really good thread written up on it in the PvP section here. You're correct, armor does fine mitigating weapon damage, but there is so little of that type in the PvP metagame that it is in fact trivial. Meaning that a reduction of X% from expertise is a flat reduction of X% regardless of armor rating. Kinetic does NOT bypass armor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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