Can you address our concerns?

[EcrirTwyLar]

I also don't feel like a guy that can deflect blasters at the guy that's trying to make me dead. Figured I'd throw that in there, too.

 

This is why I was originally against Knights wearing heavy armor. I felt that their 'armor' should have been a good lightsaber deflection ability.

[FobManX]

The only hard thing about PVE is the final class quest, which BW has already admitted is way overtuned.

[eimi]

If the Knight (specifically Guardians) are supposed to be tanks, they should be pretty hard to kill. Their damage should be low, but the damage they do should be very high threat, and not so abysmally low that they can't kill something, but it should take them a bit.

 

I feel that Guardians are lacking most in the defense and survivability department. The damge they do would be just fine, if they didn't lose 1/2 their HP in the process.

 

Just um posting against this, Guardians are no more tanks than vanguards or shadows are. Just because one of our three specs is a tanking spec does not mean the class is a tank class. The stated design of the game is that your spec more so than your class dictates your role, while class just is the set of tools. DPS specs are supposed to be equivalent. My Vigilance guard is as much a dps as your sentinel is. And as DPS we do suck and have the issues you pointed out. Just saying we are not naturally a tank.

[EcrirTwyLar]

Just um posting against this, Guardians are no more tanks than vanguards or shadows are. Just because one of our three specs is a tanking spec does not mean the class is a tank class. The stated design of the game is that your spec more so than your class dictates your role, while class just is the set of tools. DPS specs are supposed to be equivalent. My Vigilance guard is as much a dps as your sentinel is. And as DPS we do suck and have the issues you pointed out. Just saying we are not naturally a tank.

 

I don't think they meant to shoe horn the entire class into the tanking role. I think they were referring to the fact that the Guardian AC has a tanking spec and as such, that spec should be more difficult to kill.

[Mikori]

Just um posting against this, Guardians are no more tanks than vanguards or shadows are. Just because one of our three specs is a tanking spec does not mean the class is a tank class. The stated design of the game is that your spec more so than your class dictates your role, while class just is the set of tools. DPS specs are supposed to be equivalent. My Vigilance guard is as much a dps as your sentinel is. And as DPS we do suck and have the issues you pointed out. Just saying we are not naturally a tank.

 

Yeah. I've been playing a Guardian and I feel pretty much the same way. I am not a hard core MMO player, and I suspect some of the people here who are might be having a hard time unlearning some of what they've learned from, say, WoW - that being a certain class means you MUST be a tank, or DPS, etc.

[eimi]

I don't think they meant to shoe horn the entire class into the tanking role. I think they were referring to the fact that the Guardian AC has a tanking spec and as such, that spec should be more difficult to kill.

 

True. And I haven't played as it but Vigilance certainly doesn't have anything tanky about it. We are /squishy/.

[jdela]

I struggled a bit with Kira's brother, but only because I was still learning. The Sith Harrowers caused me issues as well. I died 3 times killing them. The first was that I was caught completely unaware at how powerful they were. Then I killed two in a row and then the third one killed me twice (more my fault, I got a bit confident and didn't wait for cooldowns).

 

This class requires you to use every single skill. I look at my two bottom hotbars and I struggle to find a single skill that I can remove. They all come in handy in certain situations. My big problem is lack of dexterity to hit the keybinds, but then again I have never had to have so many keybinds to use. Considering I last played Rift with my 2 button macro of doom, hitting 20 different keys is a bit of a change.

 

The other thing that kills me in general is cut scene to combat. Maybe it is my computer, but there is a slight delay and enemies that start off with a channeled efffect that does tons of damage really puts you behind early cause you can't interupt it quickly enough.

 

I think I do pretty well though. I don't die often unless I am not paying attention or not setting up properly. Not getting killed a lot is a great way to make money Repairs are in the hundreds of credits instead of thousands.

[SynisterOne]

Too much for me to catch up and read, so I'll just stick with stating my feelings on the class I've been playing since early access.

 

I started on the Ven'Zallow server roughly 8 hours after it was launched.

Was the first on the server to hit 50.

I NEVER had problems with PvE content.(I actually helped my guardian buddy with his)

Soon as my guardian buddy and I hit 30 we were duoing flashpoints at our level with only my companion Kira and I as damage.

 

As far as PvP is concerned, it wasn't so bad. In combat spec I was in the top 5 more often that not.

As soon as I specced to watchman though...I'm never not in first place except against VERY specific empire guild teams(Divas(Select members))

I easily top 300k damage and 75k healing every round.

 

My list of complaints is actually rather short.

First is that I only have 1 interrupt, and, as watchmen 0 immobilizes, 0 stuns. So if I encounter a healer in anything higher than light armor, it is nearly impossible for me to kill them between being knocked back(with 6 second root) and straight up rooted or stunned....<_< It would be hard enough if they couldn't heal.

 

As for the 2nd issue it's just the animation/stutter bug on my skills. It has gotten a LOT worse in the past week, to the extent that I'm absolutely refusing to play until it has been patched. As a sentinel I have to get 1 of 3 skills to go off for me to even start a fight.

Force Leap/Strike/Zealous Strike. Lately every one of these skills seems to have an 80% chance to do absolutely nothing but start swinging or moving and then stop.(This may solve ALL the sentinel balance issues, therefore anything else may very well make us overpowered)

 

My 3rd complaint is that my damage, however equal and perfectly balanced makes me sad. The fact that I have no choice but spec into damage and coupled with the difficulty of the class makes me want more even though I know it would completely unbalance the game. Average level sentinel players would actually be able to compete, but if you ran into a good sentinel, you would NEVER stand a chance. Most players don't as the sentinel is now.

 

4th. Why in the world is our focus tree(Shared)The overall most damaging.....I mean, it's nearly impossible to break 5k damage without it.(Pick up expertise buff + expertise consumable + battlemaster gear + Power Adrenal + Strength stim + Crit/Surge relic + 35% chance to crit on your hardest hitting skill)......It shouldn't be that hard for a DPS ONLY class to hit for 5k.....

 

And the final issue is a very minor one. As watchman spec, nearly all my damage and healing comes from burns. And Unless I intentionally wait 5 seconds between skill use it is impossible for me to keep a burn on someone. All I want is that my burn on hit skill be made passive, like Ataru strike. That way, I don't have to drop 3 focus every 15 seconds for 3 on hit effects that wear off way before anything actually happens unless I purposely don't use skills.

 

 

EDIT:

Having gone back and read numerous posts in this thread it made me come to the realization that It is rather difficult to enjoy the class.

I only get my enjoyment at the end of warzones when I see the scores. But during the actual combat, I'm 80% focused on looking at my skillbar for cooldowns 18% look at enemies to stay in melee range and 2% looking at things going on around me. I have no time to look at the mini map and watch my teamates leave me alone to fight 3 players.

 

 

 

TL : DR

I'm a pro.(Humbleness, what's that? If you've got it, flaunt it!)

The sentinel is a hard mode class, it will NEVER be easy.

Very minor tweaks could fix Sentinel or throw it way off the deep end in terms of balance.

Skill stutter/animation bug makes it impossible to play on a high level.

Make watchman burn effects on hit instead of a temporary 3-hit buff.

I want more damage but know I shouldn't have it.

I need cooler looking skill icons as that is really all I ever see in a hectic fight.

Edited January 13, 2012 by SynisterOne

[HeroMystic]

Read through every page in this thread.

 

All I can say is I'm glad most of the things I noticed about Jedi Knight has been raised here, most noticeably the underwhelming performance it brings and how much tougher content is as said class. The one thing I personally disagree with though is the complexity.

 

To be honest, the complexity is the main reason why I love this class so much. On my Vanguard I didn't even know what to do with its interrupt equivalent, I just kept shooting at the boss till it died. But Guardian? I use it every chance I get, because it's such a valuable tool, using Riposte as a reflex tool adds even more to it, and burning through my focus with rotations while staying completely focused just to go "OH NO YOU DON'T!" is totally empowering.

 

But at this point, it's pretty much a fact that Jedi Knight is a very underwhelming class, and the sad fact is there's no single answer to why. It could be that we lack utility, or we lack DPS, or we lack ranged attacks, or we lack resilience. It could even be all of the above.

 

And despite all I said, being a "Hard Mode" class is not an achievement, it's a flaw that needs to be fixed. I should not have to gear Kira or myself in all Purple/Blue just to get through everything. I should not have to respec to Defense because I didn't notice that mob is an Elite and while I could faceroll it as Vanguard, I can barely live as a DPS Guardian, if I live at all, because I didn't send Kira in first to act as Meatshield. It should not be a requirement to have Biochem skill so I can freely make medpacks and stims just to be an even match for the upcoming content, even if I am 3+ levels above the planet. This is not skill. This is to statistically allow you to complete the storyline.

 

I could say much more, but I think this much will suffice for my two cents.

[LlamacusMaximus]

The Merciless buff is too unforgiving. It seems that you have to be ready to use merciless slash the second it is off CD in order to keep the buff up. there are just too many situations where this is not possible making this buff extremely frustrating to keep up unless you are standing still and doing nothing but focusing on straight dps.

[Ghosthunterz]

Jedi Sentinels remind me of Retribution Paladins before World of Warcraft's first expansion lol, so sad

[Patizor]

I'm starting to see what people mean. As a Jedi Guardian, I feel like if I attack some enemies and anything goes wrong--I see 3 but there are 4, a walker stumbles upon me, something spawns on me, etc.--I'm screwed. I could see if I were a DPS class that has more damage than survivability, but my damage isn't good either. If I attack a group of enemies and get lag during the battle, I'm done. Then Mr Smuggler comes along and kills 4 enemies with 1 grenade.

 

Maybe once in a while I could finish a battle without having to recuperate?

 

I don't feel like a tank. I feel like a DPS who left his weapon at home.

[BJSilec]

I'm a DPS guardian and i must say it's pretty hard aswell. I find the Jedi/Sith warriors to be a shadow of all the other classes. Other classes have easily spammable attacks which demolish anything, shields, and just outstanding ways to get away. As a warrior i feel like i should be on top of someone at all times! I shouldn't be chasing someone at 30% speed while they're maintaining a crazy amount of damage or be CC'd all the time. PvE is really hard too... When i barely get out of a fight alive and realize that most if not all my cd's are down i start to doubt my class and get the feeling of rerolling into something else but i never do because i want to be a JEDI. I think i should be doing great without popping CD's and absolutely demolish if i do. I'm only level 28 and i've read a couple threads telling me to hold on till endgame because the class is a late bloomer. If i get to 50 and realize that this class still isn't paying off i'm going to trip!

[Strayth]

I'm a DPS guardian and i must say it's pretty hard aswell. I find the Jedi/Sith warriors to be a shadow of all the other classes. Other classes have easily spammable attacks which demolish anything, shields, and just outstanding ways to get away. As a warrior i feel like i should be on top of someone at all times! I shouldn't be chasing someone at 30% speed while they're maintaining a crazy amount of damage or be CC'd all the time. PvE is really hard too... When i barely get out of a fight alive and realize that most if not all my cd's are down i start to doubt my class and get the feeling of rerolling into something else but i never do because i want to be a JEDI. I think i should be doing great without popping CD's and absolutely demolish if i do. I'm only level 28 and i've read a couple threads telling me to hold on till endgame because the class is a late bloomer. If i get to 50 and realize that this class still isn't paying off i'm going to trip!

 

First of all, know that even though you can do "ok" or "great" with the class, in no way it outshines the other classes.

 

So why would you have to endure such horrible experience (along with face hidden and being bald, with a fat butt) till end game, while all the other classes are having so much FUN from start to finish ?

 

That's just wrong.

[peanutcandy]

My comment to this thread is I AGREE JK stink .... IT SUCKS TO BE A SENTINEL ..... and for all you other sents out there, feel your pain. At lvl 43 and it has been a tough sled . Silly me, I thought games where supposed to be fun (Sarcasm) I just got thru with my class quest DESCENT and died like 10 times just to get to the throne room and I have blue and purp uptodate mods my guy. IMHO this class is broken because you have to be at least 2 to 3 levels above the content or you are toast .... wait I am having a vision .... wait for it ... wait

 

nvm ...... No one loves me , everybody hates , maybe I should go eat some worms

 

 

Oh yeah , what its like to be me .... If you see a Sith inquisitor , even 4 levels below you in a contested zone you better run because you are dead meat and then tea bagged .... LOL

[Xiseron]

I can't say that I agree with the original post. This class as well as the Marauder class has a skill requirement to playing it. Using every GCD in a smart combination is key to being competitive. Your complaint of too many skills really isn't all that valid in my opinion. Each spec has a different priority of skills to be used the rest are optional, situational, and overall wouldn't very harshly affect your gameplay if you didn't use them. How can you call the class underpowered when there are those of us who can prove you wrong? It's not the class it is the player. Look all over the marauder forums this has become the agreeable conclusion. If you are only complaining about the class because you can't do well with it then maybe you should think about playing something else. Your pvp complaints are the complaints of everyone in the game at the moment. There is a very definite input lag problem that is being looked at. The fact that we cannot break an animation during the middle of it, given it has glitched, is a problem that several classes with these types of animations are having not just ours. You are complaining about running around and trying to maintain rage. Honestly I think this just isn't the class for you. It is a melee class. This is our resource and how it works. It's not a problem it's a uniqueness that allows for a different play style than other classes. If you don't like the mechanics don't play the class. While I agree there is quite a bit of CC at the moment that can become very frustrating don't forget just how tough of a class we are. By using saber ward and cloak of pain at the same time you are effectively removing 70% of your current damage intake, and especially do not disregard undying rage which pretty much turns the player immortal for a few seconds. If all else fails and you can't blind, choke, or slow your foe to break away there is always the force camouflage which I use nearly every time it is available. I'm not even going to comment on your complaint about utility because honestly I feel that I've already pointed out plenty of the classes utility and that I shouldn't have to point out the rest.

 

In conclusion just don't play it if you don't enjoy it. From how your post reads there isn't a problem with the class, there is a problem with you. You don't enjoy the class mechanics down to even the resource so just don't play it. It's as simple as that. There are plenty of other classes that you can go play and complain about in their forums. Nothing is wrong with the marauder/sentinel class.

[HeroMystic]

How can you call the class underpowered when there are those of us who can prove you wrong?

 

The developers already agreed that Jedi Knight is underpowered.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Nothing is wrong with the marauder/sentinel class.

 

Yes. There is. Even BioWare admits that the class is more difficult than intended and pointed out that there are problems with the class. Just because some people can make it work doesn't make it not-busted.

 

These are the Jedi Knights, the flagship of Star Wars, this is the class that should be THE MOST accessible to players of all skill levels. Not just the "super elite" as it were.

[cwilsonafr]

What's most frustrating is that after 20 pages of this thread, we have yet to get a single reply from anyone from BioWare on the issue while other threads get replies on cosmetic and UI issues that don't actually affect gameplay. Edited January 13, 2012 by cwilsonafr

[DivisionBell]

As a level 50 guardian (tank) I thought I’d add my opinion to this thread. I agree with some of the points raised but not all.

 

This class (as a tank) really did feel underpowered pre lvl 25, especially with the lack of any taunts early on. Since that I have been having a blast and quite frankly, have enjoyed the challenge that the class quest have provided. I really don’t want to go through all the content without any road blocks at all! I just don’t understand at lot of the people in this thread who want to face-roll through everything. There were only a couple of elietes that took a few goes and you can always get a friend or pick up some stims and med packs.

 

The defence tree I find a bit disappointing in its design....there is nothing to get excited about after tier 4. I like the class but they may need a slight buff where damage is concerned. There are a lot of abilities but, after practice you get the hang of them all and, you can find a rhythm to get into without too much button watching. As for interrupts, I personally think that they should require skilled timing to use (the focus cost on force kick can catch you out though).

 

As for PvP I have found the guardian pretty good. The taunts in warzones are great and we can take a pounding. Pair up with a healer and you can be unstoppable with guard in play. The only time I have had an issue is with open world PvP. Classes like bounty hunters can just CC my companion and that it for me. If they don’t do that, I haven’t found myself underpowered.

 

I will say though that, I consider myself an experienced MMO player and, anyone picking this up as their first would find this class difficult to play. However, being British...I like playing the underdog. 

Edited January 13, 2012 by DivisionBell

[Bamboulaa]

I don´t know if it was already mentioned but we are the only class which gets divided into two armor types and i think the medium armor protection is not enough. Maybe the class quests were designed for a guardians protection value.

I can´t wait for my rebuke to come off cd for every group. The Dmg as a sentinel seems quite good (40+ as Focus) but our Offhand Dmg is a real joke (10% of my Mainhand).

 

My solutions for soloing and the class quests:

 

1. Buff the armor value of medium armor

OR

2. Let us wear heavy armor (looks much better

 

3. Buff our Offhand Dmg so that it makes a difference to a guardian and feels like a real DPS class

 

4. Buff the Dmg of Strike and let it give us 3 Focus ( i really hate it to pump 3 strikes for 6 focus with nearly no dmg effect)

 

 

P.S. Plz let me switch my sentinel to a guardian ( I am 45 now, it´s too late for a reroll )

[Vincire]

I can only agree with the points presented by the OP. I play a Defense Guardian and so I have a few extra tools (at level 43) but that far from makes up the disconnect betwen the Jedi Knight's performance in any aspect of the the game and any other class (sans Sith Warrior).

 

In fact, the one thing that has made this class playable for me up to this point was taking BioChem and liberally using the infinite medpacks available from the skill especially considering how late we get our much valued healer companion.

[Tamas]

After taking my sentinel to operations I have to say - it's too painful to continue - the amount of melee aoe from trash to bosses is quite past teh point of simple annoyance. Boss mechanics favor ranged class far more - you can dps for longer and without fear of dying instantly if you miss a mechanic.

[Jonlo]

What's most frustrating is that after 20 pages of this thread, we have yet to get a single reply from anyone from BioWare on the issue while other threads get replies on cosmetic and UI issues that don't actually affect gameplay.

 

They don't have to reply to tell you they're reading it. No response isn't the same as being ignored. I wish people would understand that.

[Patjoew]

best example how i dont like JK guardian as tank.. we had a gunslinger dpser. Flashpoint esseles Hardmode. The very first boss like character (which isnt a boss).

Spawns allot of ranged adds. And the boss itself does closeranged a fare amount of damage.

 

I eventually had to manage add while the dpser (gunslinger) just took the main mob.

He takes 0 damage..(as he can take cover) and kills the boss with no probleme.

when i go in as guardian (undergeared but still the gunslinger was undergeared 2) he hitted me with his best attack almost 25% of my HP. still not a probleme with a good healer but it shows.

we take allot of damage much more easy and do less damage.

Have allot harder aggro control especially with all the ranged mobs running around. and he just stand on 1 spot.. aoe the **** out of everyone (4k crits all the time).

I do like challanges but if a ranged tank or dpser in this case holds the aggro so much more easy has much better cc as he doesnt have to jump and run around to get aggro back.

Why would anyone want to take a guardian in there hardmodes when ranged tanks are so much better...

The only time im invited with my guardian is because they feel sorry for me...

Thus i rerolled and hope i will get the learning curve under control.

Also i probably have to work with a macro mouse because of the attacks i need as guardian to hold aggro.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Patjoew