Dungeon Finder Needed Badly.

[Halbe]

I am of the opinion that cross server LFD ruined WoW. There's no sense of community anymore. To me, that's a big deal in an MMO.

 

Seriously, I want someone to explain this "community" thing to me, and how it's destroyed by a server LFG tool.

 

I honestly want to hear what makes the forcing of players to FIND a group (not participate in, not converse in, but FIND) so much more community building than putting players into a group that are looking to accomplish the same goal.

 

Jesus. It's like if I'm at work and my boss wants me to attend a meeting with some other developers. If he schedules a brainstorming with me and 3 other developers, does that mean we'd have less of a communicative meeting than if I went around asking other developers if they could show up?

 

And no, don't even attempt the "Well you can pick the best developers if you do it yourself" bullcrap. That's not community, that's party optimization. Two TOTALLY different topics. I can learn whose good or bad based on the meeting, not how it's set-up.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Halbe

[Anizev]

Oh, and yea, it totally ruined the social aspect in WoW. It made it so everyone could just sit in one place, do their tradeskills there, get to their instances from there. PvP from there. There wasn't any reason to leave there after you did your dailies, if you even wanted to do them. It turned one major hub into what amounts to a chatroom with vendors and trainers.

 

can you explain that to me? because I don't get it at all.

 

pre-LFG, you had to stand around in your respective capital cities and spam trade chat trying to find a group.

 

post-LFG, you can queue up and then go about the world doing whatever you want while waiting.

 

the only real change is that you don't have to run to the instance entrance with LFG, but that's a non-factor in SWTOR since all the instances are in the same place already.

 

last night, someone was spamming the republic fleet channel for an hour looking for a healer... just, "LF1M healer for (I forget)" every 30 seconds. there was absolutely no socializing going on until I took the opportunity to make fun of him pointing out that with all the time he spent spamming, he could have just leveled a healer to 50.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Anizev

[Halbe]

can you explain that to me? because I don't get it at all.

 

pre-LFG, you had to stand around in your respective capital cities and spam trade chat trying to find a group.

 

post-LFG, you can queue up and then go about the world doing whatever you want while waiting.

 

the only real change is that you don't have to run to the instance entrance with LFG, but that's a non-factor in SWTOR since all the instances are in the same place already.

 

last night, someone was spamming the republic fleet channel for an hour looking for a healer... just, "LF1M healer for (I forget)" every 30 seconds. there was absolutely no socializing going on until I took the opportunity to make fun of him pointing out that with all the time he spent spamming, he could have just leveled a healer to 50.

 

The argument with the LFD tool in WoW, from my understanding of those against it, was that it basically turned WoW into a Chatroom. There was no reason to go beyond the gates of your capital/current expasion hub if you didn't want. All of your resources to continue were there.

 

Now look at SWToR. It is basically this scenario without the LFD finder. In your capital fleet, you go to your instances. You send your compaions to tradeskill. You queue for PvP. You train/purchase stuff on the GTN (if it works), ect.. Everything is there.

 

Now, I'd like for you to further explain the socializing point you've made. What further "socializing" could he have done? Does he go person by person in his level range and ask "Hey, do you want to do X?". That's socializing? To me, that's annoying, unnecessary, and just a hinderance.

 

In any case, am I too understand that your definition of "socializing" amounts to one question per person, asking them if they can run the instance? What could this person have benefited from in this scenario that a LFD tool could not have provided.

 

And on a side not, your last paragraph actually made me smile. I'd LOVE to be able to continue my adventures, you know, socializing while leveling, if I didn't have to sit in a capital city looking for a group.

 

I guess it boils down to community building being removing someone from their leveling gruop of players, forcing them to sit in the capital fleet asking for a group, and apparently getting no reponse. That's community building?

[ferroz]

The argument with the LFD tool in WoW, from my understanding of those against it, was that it basically turned WoW into a Chatroom. There was no reason to go beyond the gates of your capital/current expasion hub if you didn't want. All of your resources to continue were there.

If anything, it did the opposite.

 

before lfd: sit in dalaran, look for people doing the daily heroic or daily regular. You can't leave, or you'll likely miss your chance at a group

 

after lfd: Queue, go do dailies, or whatever. Or sit in dalaran. But you have a choice.

 

so it's less of a chat room.

 

None of this has anything to do with the community dieing in modern games. Really, it's about the fact that modern games are soloable by everyone (instead of a fairly small minority) and that the game is instanced. The fact that you form a group and then go into your own little world is more detrimental than any lfd system could ever be.

Edited January 10, 2012 by ferroz

[Canuk]

Still havent done most of the flashpoints and trying to find a group is not only painful but almost impossible on most nights.

I can not even fathom not having one for at least level 50 hard modes etc, and at the very least for same server. I simply cannot find groups even sitting in fleet spamming trade or putting notes in "who" channel.

Bioware i beg you please do something. Sitting in fleet for 3 hours doing nothing is not fun, and if it isnt fixed i see no room for the game to get past the growing pains..

Please let us enjoy your game and not sit in fleet trying to see your content.

[Halbe]

If anything, it did the opposite.

 

before lfd: sit in dalaran, look for people doing the daily heroic or daily regular. You can't leave, or you'll likely miss your chance at a group

 

after lfd: Queue, go do dailies, or whatever. Or sit in dalaran. But you have a choice.

 

so it's less of a chat room.

 

None of this has anything to do with the community dieing in modern games. Really, it's about the fact that modern games are soloable by everyone (instead of a fairly small minority) and that the game is instanced. The fact that you form a group and then go into your own little world is more detrimental than any lfd system could ever be.

 

At max level, yes. I agree for the most part, but in other faucets I don't. However, we could go back and forth about this and WoW's community, but the point is moot (as you pointed out).

 

The main take-away being that a LFD finder does not somehow foster a decline in "community". That happens on it's own.

[ryanvward]

At max level, yes. I agree for the most part, but in other faucets I don't. However, we could go back and forth about this and WoW's community, but the point is moot (as you pointed out).

 

The main take-away being that a LFD finder does not somehow foster a decline in "community". That happens on it's own.

 

I think the ruins of a community can be found in these threads, people constantly slamming each other.

[Radiatonia]

I think the ruins of a community can be found in these threads, people constantly slamming each other.

 

That, and a lack of ability to research statements before insulting others.

 

For instance, all the pro-LFD people who slammed my post could have spent some time googling the issue I posted about. You'd have realized that they already said cross server queues are no go prior to release, and are off the table. They know what it does to a server community.

 

 

But then, it's easier to say "HAHA! Have fun when you're playing alone, loser!" then it is to display critical thinking and reading skills.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Radiatonia

[Umbral]

That, and a lack of ability to research statements before insulting others.

 

For instance, all the pro-LFD people who slammed my post could have spent some time googling the issue I posted about. You'd have realized that they already said cross server queues are no go prior to release, and are off the table. They know what it does to a server community.

 

 

But then, it's easier to say "HAHA! Have fun when you're playing alone, loser!" then it is to display critical thinking and reading skills.

Maybe you had better do some googling on the subject. As far as a cross server LFG tool for PvP it's something the development team WANTS to do, but it won't be in the game for awhile, and what they've said regarding a PvE LFD tool is not at the moment, but they've not closed their minds to the idea.

 

What people are trying to tell BW is that we'd like them to open those minds wide to the idea by announcing it's in the works for the good of the game's health sooner rather than later. Real soon. As in before the subs start dropping off once the free month is over soon.

 

Edit: By the way, if there is actually a BW representative reading these threads, just take a look at the anti-LFD tool "community builders" and you decide what kind of community those types are going to build. You know the ones telling everyone that disagrees with them to just shut up and/or leave SWTOR? Ya ...... maybe just mull that over a bit, and maybe just consider through no real fault of your own, you were led down the garden path by the pre-release "community" here on these forums.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Umbral

[Edstonx]

First I am against any LFD system. But for the sake of being reasonable. If they ever add a LFD tool it should NOT be automated in any way. It should NOT teleport you to the FP, you need to get there yourself. It should also NOT be cross server. The loot rules should NOT be any different from a standard group.

 

It SHOULD be a consolidated listing of all those who are interested in a group. It SHOULD be able to be sorted by which group quest or DO you are searching for. It SHOULD require someone to willingly start and lead the group. It SHOULD require the leader to have to invite people to the group.

 

It would be nice to have an LFG channel that is server wide only while using the LFD system, a channel that can be turned off if some who are in LFD still don't want it.

 

TL:DR Automated cross server LFD=bad, let's meet partway.

[Sooper]

First I am against any LFD system. But for the sake of being reasonable. If they ever add a LFD tool it should NOT be automated in any way. It should NOT teleport you to the FP, you need to get there yourself. It should also NOT be cross server. The loot rules should NOT be any different from a standard group.

 

It SHOULD be a consolidated listing of all those who are interested in a group. It SHOULD be able to be sorted by which group quest or DO you are searching for. It SHOULD require someone to willingly start and lead the group. It SHOULD require the leader to have to invite people to the group.

 

It would be nice to have an LFG channel that is server wide only while using the LFD system, a channel that can be turned off if some who are in LFD still don't want it.

 

TL:DR Automated cross server LFD=bad, let's meet partway.

 

server only is only good for SOME server. why implement something that doesn't GO the extra mile. WoW had something similar to what you want, it didnt pan out. It turned into a IF YOU WANT ME TO TANK YOU BETTER SUMMON ME OR IM LEAVING. People DONT want to walk anywhere if they dont have to.

[dargor-]

It's needed so bad i wouldn't mind getting just the same-server version if it means we get it faster.

 

They can add cross-shard later.

[Zabonam]

It would be nice to have an LFG channel that is server wide only while using the LFD system, a channel that can be turned off if some who are in LFD still don't want it.

 

That is a fair compromise for the people who don't want it.

 

I am FOR the LFG tool, but I'd settle for that. I usually have more success for flashpoints when travelling to each planet to ask in General chat. The ability to ask across a server in chat would be very welcome.

 

I have no objections to having to manually travel to the entrace of the flashpoint either. In WoW before the cross server lfg tool I was usually the sucker who had to go and help summon everyone anyway.

[dargor-]

The compromise is already there, just don't use it.

 

There's no excuse to give us an half-azzed version just because a handful of anti-progress idiots keep getting their panties in a bunch at the mere thought of a dungeon finder, mods and/or macros.

[ryathal]

First I am against any LFD system. But for the sake of being reasonable. If they ever add a LFD tool it should NOT be automated in any way. It should NOT teleport you to the FP, you need to get there yourself. It should also NOT be cross server. The loot rules should NOT be any different from a standard group.

 

It SHOULD be a consolidated listing of all those who are interested in a group. It SHOULD be able to be sorted by which group quest or DO you are searching for. It SHOULD require someone to willingly start and lead the group. It SHOULD require the leader to have to invite people to the group.

 

It would be nice to have an LFG channel that is server wide only while using the LFD system, a channel that can be turned off if some who are in LFD still don't want it.

 

TL:DR Automated cross server LFD=bad, let's meet partway.

 

 

 

are you not aware that wow had a server wide lfg channel for a while? its a great idea for everything except actually finding a group

 

wow's LFD = best option in existence

[Chosenxeno]

just posting to Rate this 5 stars.

[Umbral]

It's needed so bad i wouldn't mind getting just the same-server version if it means we get it faster.

 

It really is getting worse now that the bulk of the release day people are getting nearer to max. It's mind boggling they haven't announced that they'll be adding a LFD tool as soon as they can already. Jan. 20th is looming. It's like BW is holding a gun to their own head and looking at everyone with crazy eye yelling "I'll do it! I'm crazy enough to do it! See I didn't put it in at release! See how nuts I am!"

 

Frankly, after having watched these forums from day one, it is really shouldn't be a surprise for me. BW has been fooled all along by the "community" that hung around here. The most vocal and bullying were these anti-progress types, and it would appear that BW never actually did their due diligence to see if that bunch actually represented the players that would come to play their game. Or it might be that a biased CM team didn't "want" to. Now we have a game where how we play it is getting dictated by a comparative handful occupying a small number of "specialty servers".

Edited January 11, 2012 by Umbral

[Umbral]

That is a fair compromise for the people who don't want it.

 

I am FOR the LFG tool, but I'd settle for that. I usually have more success for flashpoints when travelling to each planet to ask in General chat. The ability to ask across a server in chat would be very welcome.

 

I have no objections to having to manually travel to the entrace of the flashpoint either. In WoW before the cross server lfg tool I was usually the sucker who had to go and help summon everyone anyway.

There are already a number of servers with global LFG channels. They're proving even more useless than the other ways of finding groups.

[HydraShok]

I agree...a dungeon finder type system is needed!

[Kurnea]

There are already a number of servers with global LFG channels. They're proving even more useless than the other ways of finding groups.

 

Are you talking about global lfg channels that you have to optionally join? Then of course they're going to be useless. Typically only the default channels are often used.

[GarbonzotheDude]

There are already a number of servers with global LFG channels. They're proving even more useless than the other ways of finding groups.

 

Probably because most don't know about them. I couldn't tell you if my server does. How the hell would I know? Not like there is a server forum for it to be stickied or posted.

 

The lack of group mechanics in this game is very disconcerting. I wouldn't say the game needs a dungeon finder per se but it could use some more mechanics in place to help with grouping. The little this game does have is very subpar by today's standards.

Edited January 11, 2012 by GarbonzotheDude

[Hihowru]

Been wanting to do a particular Flashpoint for three days now, but after spamming for a hour + each day I've just been giving up and going questing. I figured I was going to be way over level for a regular group very soon and experience the content as it was meant to be first experienced, so today I told myself I would get a group or die trying heh.

 

First 45 minutes to get in a group to do the Flashpoint today as a healer, then another 30 minutes to find a tank. Then before we even got started the tank had to bail for RL issues, so then 35 minutes before finding another tank. We get in and are fighting for awhile when the tank and one of the dps start arguing because the dps was rolling need on everything, but nothing the player could use. So the dps rage quits, and their guildmate follows right after, both of them spewing profanities before they go. Then the tank says they can't wait for us to get two more and start again, so the group is over. Another 70 minutes before I got a group again. With everyone that I was grouped with there was never ONE word spoken except when the arguing started. This despite me making several attempts to start convos.

 

Ya no LFG/LFD tool is working great, and not having one is building such a wonderful community!!

 

I thought I was the only one lol, I've been lfg for particular fp for 4-5 days now and nothing. In the beginning it worked pretty good, I would use the "who" tab and put comment up as well and sometimes I didn't even have to use /General spam I would get invites really fast, but I've been struggling of late. I guess being a dps makes it harder too, I've got lots of competition..

Edited January 13, 2012 by Hihowru

[Umbral]

I thought I was the only one lol, I've been lfg for particular fp for 4-5 days now and nothing. In the beginning it worked pretty good, I would use the "who" tab and put comment up as well and sometimes I didn't even have to use /General spam I would get invites really fast, but I've been struggling of late. I guess being a dps makes it harder too, I've got lots of competition.

Yes, my experience with getting a group for Heroics and Flashpoints has gone from bad to worse since I started playing in early release. I've had one occasion where I got in a group in less than a half an hour, and the group fell apart after we wiped and were all disconnected when we clicked to rez at the start of the zone.

 

It's getting very disheartening, and instead of giving us some hope with an announcement that they'll get something in-game soon, they start talking about going to conventions.

[Zabonam]

Been wanting to do a particular Flashpoint for three days now, but after spamming for a hour + each day I've just been giving up and going questing. I figured I was going to be way over level for a regular group very soon and experience the content as it was meant to be first experienced, so today I told myself I would get a group or die trying heh.

 

First 45 minutes to get in a group to do the Flashpoint today as a healer, then another 30 minutes to find a tank. Then before we even got started the tank had to bail for RL issues, so then 35 minutes before finding another tank. We get in and are fighting for awhile when the tank and one of the dps start arguing because the dps was rolling need on everything, but nothing the player could use. So the dps rage quits, and their guildmate follows right after, both of them spewing profanities before they go. Then the tank says they can't wait for us to get two more and start again, so the group is over. Another 70 minutes before I got a group again. With everyone that I was grouped with there was never ONE word spoken except when the arguing started. This despite me making several attempts to start convos.

 

Ya no LFG/LFD tool is working great, and not having one is building such a wonderful community!!

 

That happened to me recently. I gave up in the end too. Spend so long asking to find a group.

[Sooper]

Hopefully BW is watching this thread and taking it into consideration. Hopefully they ignore the WoW hating hipsters that only hate the improvement because WoW did it.

 

For all those who say that it makes content too easy, the days of "Hardcore" MMOs are gone there will be no more wiping to a boss for 12 hours in a normal. Companies are realizing at if they want their game to have any impact on the MMO genre they need to have content that is at least accessible to the average player. Thats why there are difficulty modes, so people can at least see the content.

 

I saw a graph the other day about WoW and the LFR, it showed that like 35% of the population of 85s has done DS on LFR mode, a HUGE increase from other tiers. So LFR is successful even with the looting issues it currently has. It allows me to just log on go mining while i wait in the que for maybe 10 minutes and bam in a raid.