Why do people consider TOR a single player experience? I don't understand.

[Quillium]

once you get your ship you can do the same thing in swtor, WoW and swtor are still not sandboxes, freedom of travel does not equal sandbox.

 

A sandbox is a game which provides you a consistant world(an economy with a non-instanced base world) and allows you to muck around in it and interact with others and the environment as you see fit. There can still be a linear storyline involved, the Grand Theft Auto series are good examples.. but you aren't tied to it.

 

World of Warcraft is the pre-emminent sandbox MMO. Calling it anything but is just being stupid. If you want, you can sit there with your character and decide to farm linen/copper and in turn make the whole game about turning a profit. Or you could expand what you can do by opening up areas through levelling both the player and the skill. You aren't constrained in what you can do or where you can go. At the same time, you have consistent home cities where people congregate so that as time goes on, you start to learn the major players on your server.

 

ToR is in no way a sandbox and its why it will never have the staying power of a real MMO. I agree with the above that it is definately its own take on a MMORPG and I do applaud them for trying something new. But trying something new isn't the same thing as making that next evolutionary step foreward in MMORPG game design. If anything, its a signficant step backwards.

 

There have been two major leaps in MMO game design. The first was Everquest and that really popularized the use of true 3D in conjunction with really introducing modern guilds and modern endgame design. Its still played today 12 years later but its hayday was 1999-2004. The second was World of Warcraft and that game took everything Everquest did, streamlined it, and made it a lot more user-friendly with a modern interface.

 

People tend to forget, but that game nearly bankrupted Blizzard and at the time they were Hoping that MMO's could find a game that could reach the unheard of 1 million subscriber base. That that game did what it did is a testament to their design team and really changed the industry forever. You simply don't get The Old Republic without a WoW and you don't get a WoW without an EQ. Simple as that.

 

As per The Old Republic, as i said.. not a gamechanger. I have a sneaking suspicion that this will join the line of games that had a good 2 months, flush most of the sub base, and then scramble to F2P and claim that was their plan all along. Either way, WoW is still king and will continue to be until we get that next big gamechanger. This, will fade away quickly.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Quillium

[Sulfurblade]

once you get your ship you can do the same thing in swtor, WoW and swtor are still not sandboxes, freedom of travel does not equal sandbox.

 

Thats exactly the problem once I get my ship I have saved a planet from a Fallen Jedi and I have exposed a curropt senetor and I have saved coruscant from the Evil Black Sun.... My character has this long impossed history that I had to play out to get to that point!

 

I am a damned Merchant and Crafter I didnt want to save a planet or Save the capital or do any of that stuff! I like to RP my character is a drunk old man not the savior of the universe as The game has forced me to be!

 

I want freedom! to Craft at lvl 1 I want freedom to have a merchant character thats not force sensative or in the army or some sorta smuggler!

 

I want freedom to go where I want at lvl 1 and start my business of making credits and crafting merchandise!!!!

 

This doesnt exist in this game because its NOT a Sandbox its not even an MMO its a Single Player RPG with global chat!!!

[Sulfurblade]

A sandbox is a game which provides you a consistant world(an economy with a non-instanced base world) and allows you to muck around in it and interact with others and the environment as you see fit. There can still be a linear storyline involved, the Grand Theft Auto series are good examples.. but you aren't tied to it.

 

World of Warcraft is the pre-emminent sandbox MMO. Calling it anything but is just being stupid. If you want, you can sit there with your character and decide to farm linen/copper and in turn make the whole game about turning a profit. Or you could expand what you can do by opening up areas through levelling both the player and the skill. You aren't constrained in what you can do or where you can go. At the same time, you have consistent home cities where people congregate so that as time goes on, you start to learn the major players on your server.

 

ToR is in no way a sandbox and its why it will never have the staying power of a real MMO. I agree with the above that it is definately its own take on a MMORPG and I do applaud them for trying something new. But trying something new isn't the same thing as making that next evolutionary step foreward in MMORPG game design. If anything, its a signficant step backwards.

 

There have been two major leaps in MMO game design. The first was Everquest and that really popularized the use of true 3D in conjunction with really introducing modern guilds and modern endgame design. Its still played today 12 years later but its hayday was 1999-2004. The second was World of Warcraft and that game took everything Everquest did, streamlined it, and made it a lot more user-friendly with a modern interface.

 

People tend to forget, but that game nearly bankrupted Blizzard and at the time they were Hoping that MMO's could find a game that could reach the unheard of 1 million subscriber base. That that game did what it did is a testament to their design team and really changed the industry forever. You simply don't get The Old Republic without a WoW and you don't get a WoW without an EQ. Simple as that.

 

As per The Old Republic, as i said.. not a gamechanger. I have a sneaking suspicion that this will join the line of games that had a good 2 months, flush most of the sub base, and then scramble to F2P and claim that was their plan all along. Either way, WoW is still king and will continue to be until we get that next big gamechanger. This, will fade away quickly.

 

Agree 100% except Ultima Online was the First great MMO not Everquest

[Jahl]

Having played through two planets now (Coruscant & Balmora) with other people I can honestly say that, while it is possible to solo SWtOR to 50, the game really comes to life when you play through it with someone else....class quests included.

[Quillium]

Agree 100% except Ultima Online was the First great MMO not Everquest

 

No, not really. Everquest was an evolutionary jump over UO and all other MMO's into full 3D Game Design and we started talking about hundreds of thousands of concurrent players as opposed to thousands or tens of thousands. Not that Ultima Online wasn't successful in its own right.. but it wasn't an evolutionary leap forward and explosion in players that Everquest was. Its direct mirror would be say EQ2. EQ2 is similar in style and even predated World of Warcraft, but WoW simply blew the industry up with its take on the genre and remade it in its own image. Was EQ2 successful? Ya, but it wasn't the evolutionary leap forward of WoW.

 

People forget, its 12 years later and Everquest 1 is still being developed for and maintained and just got its latest expansion in November.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Quillium

[Cutiecat]

Having played through two planets now (Coruscant & Balmora) with other people I can honestly say that, while it is possible to solo SWtOR to 50, the game really comes to life when you play through it with someone else....class quests included.

 

Killing 25 droids is radically different with another player!

[GalacticKegger]

Having played through two planets now (Coruscant & Balmora) with other people I can honestly say that, while it is possible to solo SWtOR to 50, the game really comes to life when you play through it with someone else....class quests included.

Cool! And if others flame you for enjoying the game it's their problem - not yours.

[Jahl]

No, not really. Everquest was an evolutionary jump over UO and all other MMO's into full 3D Game Design and we started talking about hundreds of thousands of concurrent players as opposed to thousands or tens of thousands. Not that Ultima Online wasn't successful in its own right.. but it wasn't an evolutionary leap forward and explosion in players that Everquest was. Its direct mirror would be say EQ2. EQ2 is similar in style and even predated World of Warcraft, but WoW simply blew the industry up with its take on the genre and remade it in its own image. Was EQ2 successful? Ya, but it wasn't the evolutionary leap forward of WoW.

 

There was not one single evolutionary leap in WoW, apart from the fact that it made the mmo playable by people with just two braincells or less.

 

Ultima Online preceeded Everquest by two years, and WAS the first really succesful mmo. Everquest took upwards of a year to overtake the number of subscribers that UO had.

[BrolPraetor]

I don't hate that the game is single player. I do hate that it's nearly impossible to find groups for Heroics.

 

When I play with my friends, this game is still a blast as long as we're on the same missions/planet.

 

I really really hate LFG in this game. 5% chance of finding a group at all on the middle-high level planets.

[Sulfurblade]

No, not really. Everquest was an evolutionary jump over UO and all other MMO's into full 3D Game Design and we started talking about hundreds of thousands of concurrent players as opposed to thousands or tens of thousands. Not that Ultima Online wasn't successful in its own right.. but it wasn't an evolutionary leap forward and explosion in players that Everquest was. Its direct mirror would be say EQ2. EQ2 is similar in style and even predated World of Warcraft, but WoW simply blew the industry up with its take on the genre and remade it in its own image. Was EQ2 successful? Ya, but it wasn't the evolutionary leap forward of WoW.

 

People forget, its 12 years later and Everquest 1 is still being developed for and maintained and just got its latest expansion in November.

 

Ultima Online

 

Had the first Robust Crafting system

Had the first player housing

Had the first vendors

 

It made just as many evolutionary leaps as Evercrack did and it was way more fun! With a larger playerbase!

[Damia-Eden]

Well, I only speak for myself, but I dislike the group quests with a passion. They are hard for everyone to get to, it's extremely easy to get confused about who's in your group (especially to those of us who are, um, directionally impaired) and it can even be hard to follow your objectives since you're so busy doing other things.

 

Putting that aside, I am playing solo and when I reach 50, I'm done. I'll reroll several times but the two months my friend bought me as an x-mass present will likely see me done with the game. Of course, I will get an urge to replay and you can be I'll be back, perhaps deleting my 50 and doing the journey again.

 

I point out this *is* the game's strength and weakness: I feel like a powerful sith when I follow the questlines. Trying to make me do the same missions every week will break the sense of storyline which is already fairly thin because I see 999 other Sith around me outdoors. I would prefer an entire instance outdoor to myself and then maybe some of the extremely stupid respawns would go away and things would stay dead when I kill them.

 

I can't see grinding this every week like WoW precisely because I view my character with more emotion than I do my WoW mage. It's an impressive achievement but one which carries a price: I cannot imagine being one of a party of ten. I just would lose the sense of awe my character inspires in me.

 

Listen, if this game fails as an MMO they can release a single-player version and I would be first in line to scarf it up.

 

The biggest danger, from my perspective, is that they make the expansions require raid gear and destroy my sense of being a big, powerful sith. That's the reason I wouldn't buy and play for a few months. I cannot see continuously subscribing to this game but I will be on and off it for years to come if they don't destroy the solo-player feel of it.

[Quillium]

There was not one single evolutionary leap in WoW, apart from the fact that it made the mmo playable by people with just two braincells or less.

 

It was a single evolutionary leap. On that, there is no question. There have been few games as successful out of the gate as World of Warcraft. It made everything before it look like chumps and everything after(including this game) strived to be it. Don't think when they took the idea for this to investors that World of Warcraft wasn't brought up. It is the 10 ton gorilla of the industry and everyone wants a piece of that action.

 

You can't even have a modern development meeting for new game ideas without someone trying to compare/contrast it to something in WoW. And when WoW was being developed, don't think they didn't strive to be EQ.. but better. As per Ultima Online, as i've said.. it was a successful game, but nowhere near the evolutionary leap of EQ. Its like comparing Grand Theft Auto(Ultima Online) to Grand Theft Auto 3+(Everquest).

 

Most of you probably never played the original GTA tho.

[Tahana]

World of Warcraft is the pre-emminent sandbox MMO.

 

I hate to disagree with you, but I'm going to.. While WoW may be the preeminent MMO, it is definitely NOT a sandbox. Eastern Kingdoms is instances from Kalimdor, from Northrend, from the Outlands, from some of the Cataclysm areas.

 

If WoW was a true sandbox game, I would be able to quest in Stranglethorn Veil or Plague lands as a level one avatar and the content would scale with me. I could be killing the scourge with my mighty dagger, slashing them to shreds, while a level 50 next to me attacking the same mobs would scale to his level.

 

Neither of these games, SWTOR or WOW can be considered a sandbox in any true sense.

[Quillium]

I hate to disagree with you, but I'm going to.. While WoW may be the preeminent MMO, it is definitely NOT a sandbox. Eastern Kingdoms is instances from Kalimdor, from Northrend, from the Outlands, from some of the Cataclysm areas.

 

If WoW was a true sandbox game, I would be able to quest in Stranglethorn Veil or Plague lands as a level one avatar and the content would scale with me. I could be killing the scourge with my mighty dagger, slashing them to shreds, while a level 50 next to me attacking the same mobs would scale to his level.

 

Neither of these games, SWTOR or WOW can be considered a sandbox in any true sense.

 

Lol don't be silly. Whichever end you pulled that definition out of, put it back. I've never heard of such a stupid idea for sandbox definition. The whole point of levels and expanding the areas you can play in is that you expand the sandbox and the things you can do with it. Wherever you got this polymorphing thing where every area has to be level 1 or level 10 or level 30 or whatever your level is just doesn't exist in any form of practicality. Learn the industry, don't try to make up whole new definitions for it.

[Sulfurblade]

I hate to disagree with you, but I'm going to.. While WoW may be the preeminent MMO, it is definitely NOT a sandbox. Eastern Kingdoms is instances from Kalimdor, from Northrend, from the Outlands, from some of the Cataclysm areas.

 

If WoW was a true sandbox game, I would be able to quest in Stranglethorn Veil or Plague lands as a level one avatar and the content would scale with me. I could be killing the scourge with my mighty dagger, slashing them to shreds, while a level 50 next to me attacking the same mobs would scale to his level.

 

Neither of these games, SWTOR or WOW can be considered a sandbox in any true sense.

 

Uhm what???!!!

 

Scaling levels of mobs.... I cant even think of a MMO that does this and it definately has absolutely ZERO to do with being a sandbox!!!

[Lord_Ixigan]

Short answer: Because they're stupid.

 

 

Long answer: Because they're stupid and they don't think anything through. You can solo to max level in most mmos, but nobody seems to think about that. If you wanted to you can group up with someone else for the majority of the game.

 

You get rewarded for grouping by getting social points.

 

Social points unlock items and stuff you can buy.

 

The game actually promotes grouping in this way.

[Lord_Ixigan]

Uhm what???!!!

 

Scaling levels of mobs.... I cant even think of a MMO that does this and it definately has absolutely ZERO to do with being a sandbox!!!

 

That's not sandbox, that's....that's just level scaling.

[Sulfurblade]

Short answer: Because they're stupid.

 

 

Long answer: Because they're stupid and they don't think anything through. You can solo to max level in most mmos, but nobody seems to think about that. If you wanted to you can group up with someone else for the majority of the game.

 

You get rewarded for grouping by getting social points.

 

Social points unlock items and stuff you can buy.

 

The game actually promotes grouping in this way.

 

Wow the game promotes grouping.... Listen to that statement, the game is so linear and RPG like that THEY promote grouping because they desperately want to create a community in a game that doesnt have a reason for a community!!! Everything about the game revolves around you and your questline!!! So they have to Promote socializing!!!

 

There is no need to promote socializing in True Sandbox MMO's ..... It comes naturally with the game.....

 

For any of you that are old enough to remember the ORC clans that roleplayed as orcs in Ultima Online or the Pirates that lived outside of Skara Brae or Even the mobsters that controlled the cross roads! That was REAL community REAL RP real player vrs player interaction in a game from 1997 almost 20 years ealier then this!

 

Can you name a guild on your server? If you can name one because you happen to be in it can you name two? probally not!

 

Have you ever had a player repair your armor! Ofcourse not thats what NPC's are for! This game is so lacking in community and social features that dont stem from bribery its not funny!

 

Just face the facts a Theme Park MMO really isnt an MMO at all its just an RPG with Global Chat!

[GalacticKegger]

Wow the game promotes grouping.... Listen to that statement, the game is so linear and RPG like that THEY promote grouping because they desperately want to create a community in a game that doesnt have a reason for a community!!! Everything about the game revolves around you and your questline!!! So they have to Promote socializing!!!

People who want to socialize will socialize. People who don't want to socialize won't - regardless of the tools given them. Edited January 8, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Aleryan]

Whoever said Wow is sandbox is horribly, horribly wrong. It's the most preeminent ThemePark MMO in the world at the moment. The content is provided by Blizzard, you choose to play it or you don't, you can't create your own. Everything from pvp, crafting and end game raiding is done per Blizzard created content. It's as far as you get from sandbox.

 

The sandbox MMOs are EVE, SWG, and UO.

[Baaddare]

As the title suggests, I don't really understand. I'm a little new to MMOs, but certainly not single players. Am I missing something?

 

I understand that people are considering it a single player because the game I guess, is linear? But, I don't really think that. If you do every quest in an area, your space missions and a pvp daily, you'll out level your planet, letting you hop to different ones.

 

I guess it's because the planets are one after another though?

 

The questing doesn't feel single player, either... Take Skyrim. Skyrim is an awesome single player game, I love it. When I compare that to TOR, I don't see a comparison.

 

I've never seen a single player game where you're given a quest to kill 20 guys, or collect 20 things... for every single quest as the side quests go.

 

The main story quests are really cool and interesting, but otherwise - the side quests feel like, aside from the voice acting lore, repetitive and redundant. This makes me think of a normal MMO grind that doesn't give it a single player feel.

 

Could some one explain it to me, please?

 

 

Becasue some of the people who have played other MMORPG's and are not really into the RPG part do not like the RPG part. They tend to also be some of the same people screaming

that swtor is no different from other MMORPG's while qqing about what makes it different. Myself i have met alot of people already in game and have a healthy friends list of new people.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Baaddare

[Thaonnor]

I hate to disagree with you, but I'm going to.. While WoW may be the preeminent MMO, it is definitely NOT a sandbox. Eastern Kingdoms is instances from Kalimdor, from Northrend, from the Outlands, from some of the Cataclysm areas.

 

If WoW was a true sandbox game, I would be able to quest in Stranglethorn Veil or Plague lands as a level one avatar and the content would scale with me. I could be killing the scourge with my mighty dagger, slashing them to shreds, while a level 50 next to me attacking the same mobs would scale to his level.

 

Neither of these games, SWTOR or WOW can be considered a sandbox in any true sense.

 

I disagree with your definition of Sandbox as well.

 

SWG was a very well known sandbox game... levels did not exist, but there were in fact barriers to planets. Being able to go anywhere at the very start of the game is not necessarily a requirement for a sandbox game.

[uruz]

As the title suggests, I don't really understand. I'm a little new to MMOs, but certainly not single players. Am I missing something?

 

I understand that people are considering it a single player because the game I guess, is linear? But, I don't really think that. If you do every quest in an area, your space missions and a pvp daily, you'll out level your planet, letting you hop to different ones.

 

I guess it's because the planets are one after another though?

 

The questing doesn't feel single player, either... Take Skyrim. Skyrim is an awesome single player game, I love it. When I compare that to TOR, I don't see a comparison.

 

I've never seen a single player game where you're given a quest to kill 20 guys, or collect 20 things... for every single quest as the side quests go.

 

The main story quests are really cool and interesting, but otherwise - the side quests feel like, aside from the voice acting lore, repetitive and redundant. This makes me think of a normal MMO grind that doesn't give it a single player feel.

 

Could some one explain it to me, please?

 

Skyrim has "go get me 10 bear pelts" side quest

 

I think SWTOR is KOTOR in a multiplayer world. You really don't need to group up with anyone else for anything up until about level 45-47 - then you might need help with heroic 4's and flashpoints.

[Sulfurblade]

Skyrim has "go get me 10 bear pelts" side quest

 

I think SWTOR is KOTOR in a multiplayer world. You really don't need to group up with anyone else for anything up until about level 45-47 - then you might need help with heroic 4's and flashpoints.

 

your exactly right SWTOR IS KOTOR with GLOBAL CHAT......

 

Problem is KOTOR was Linear and thus so is SWTOR......

 

Now if Skyrim would only make and MMO now that would be a fun Sandbox!!!

[KoranHorn]

As the title suggests, I don't really understand. I'm a little new to MMOs, but certainly not single players. Am I missing something?

 

I understand that people are considering it a single player because the game I guess, is linear? But, I don't really think that. If you do every quest in an area, your space missions and a pvp daily, you'll out level your planet, letting you hop to different ones.

 

I guess it's because the planets are one after another though?

 

The questing doesn't feel single player, either... Take Skyrim. Skyrim is an awesome single player game, I love it. When I compare that to TOR, I don't see a comparison.

 

I've never seen a single player game where you're given a quest to kill 20 guys, or collect 20 things... for every single quest as the side quests go.

 

The main story quests are really cool and interesting, but otherwise - the side quests feel like, aside from the voice acting lore, repetitive and redundant. This makes me think of a normal MMO grind that doesn't give it a single player feel.

 

Could some one explain it to me, please?

 

The game is not a single player game, of course, but the FOCUS of BW's efforts is very clearly on the single player story aspect (which is pretty darn good imo). The lack of multiplayer aspect (imo) comes in when you have no convenient way to do your quests AND get groups for the FP's. Yes I am VERY pro- LFG Que tool, but Im leaving that argument in the proper channels.

 

My point again, is that people find it fun and easy to enjoy the single player aspects, but not fun and often quite a pain in the butt to get started on the multiplayer aspects. As a result there is a lot less multiplayer action and much more single player action.

 

The people who say chat is dead must be playing at crazy odd hours of the day....I play on swiftsure, and people are always yacking about something....usually how much they want to change the AC system (so you can reset it) or the LFG system verses those who want them left as is.