I feel cheated.

[KippTabor]

I read it once. Since your post lacks any indication of intelligence, there's no need for me to reread it.

 

Yes because intelligence = omg BW kicked mah dawg!

 

Keep dodging!

[Finerva]

bioware paid over 2 billion just to make sure all reviews even from places like Canadian tribune were good!

 

I think the reviews make sense, but what difference does it make.

 

It's like if you were dating a super hot girl for like 5 years and all of a sudden you meet the new girl at work. She's almost as attractive as your gf and for the sake of argument she has an identical personality EXCEPT she totally loves Star Wars.

 

Maybe some of us would jump ship on the old gf, but for me personally I'm thinking about those awkward first dates, meeting the parents, moving in together, etc etc. That's a lot of work for some Star Wars love...

 

Surprise, Wow is that old gf you've had for years that you cheat on and always go back to.

 

SWTOR is Star Wars girl.

[deejayplox]

Wall of text crits for over 9k!

[Adam_Nox]

Its a genre, not much they can do different to make a good mmo.

 

diaf.

[archifikoss]

So many promises yet this is just another reskinned default MMO. To be honest, this game made me resubscribe World of Warcraft. If I'm going to pay for a copy I might as well just play the original.

 

So you unsubbed the game because it is a default MMO (and was never marketed as anything different), only to go back to another default MMO?

 

Hmmm.

[Avrose]

I think the reviews make sense, but what difference does it make.

 

It's like if you were dating a super hot girl for like 5 years and all of a sudden you meet the new girl at work. She's almost as attractive as your gf and for the sake of argument she has an identical personality EXCEPT she totally loves Star Wars.

 

Maybe some of us would jump ship on the old gf, but for me personally I'm thinking about those awkward first dates, meeting the parents, moving in together, etc etc. That's a lot of work for some Star Wars love...

 

Surprise, Wow is that old gf you've had for years that you cheat on and always go back to.

 

SWTOR is Star Wars girl.

 

Instead of gf's lets use new jobs/companies because lets be honest no one finds a gf who loves starwars and this analogy total goes over the heads of everyone here.

[Finerva]

Instead of gf's lets use new jobs/companies because lets be honest no one finds a gf who loves starwars and this analogy total goes over the heads of everyone here.

 

Good points, I did meet a girl once who loved Star Wars, but I wouldn't date her lol

[Bionixx]

I like how the OP expected Bioware to reinvent the wheel. If you want to play an MMO and you buy an MMO, you shouldn't be mad that you got an MMO.

[freepy]

+1 couldn't agree more

[archifikoss]

I like how the OP expected Bioware to reinvent the wheel. If you want to play an MMO and you buy an MMO, you shouldn't be mad that you got an MMO.

 

This is not a good argument IMO. It's an MMORPG. There are so many different types of RPGs out there, from turn based to action RPGs, from Japanese to European style, from sci fi to fantasy...

 

Still, I agree with you that it's the OPs fault since Bioware never marketed it their game as "reinventing the wheel", and made it clear they were not trying to break the mold.

[Ishikur]

Funny, it's WoW in space with a VO-gimmick. You must be blind.

 

Id say it's more age of conan in space ^^

[vemontaq]

you have cheated enough and making huge profits, now starting fixing the game and make it f2p.

[Terko_Koslah]

I leveled up a Bounty Hunter in a PvP server. I had to say, the first two planets were a blast until I realized what was going on. The gameplay is trying to be the the same as World of Warcraft. Sure the new resource system says otherwise, but you still have a 1-5 rotation and the same cooldowns. I specced Bodyguard to heal some FlashPoints and it's exactly the same as playing my Resto Shaman. Seriously, even Earth Shield and Tidal Waves are there. Not cool.

 

That's my problem right there, but I'm trying to forget it and just enjoy the game.

[Hitomo_x]

well, if you feel like an 7 year old crappy patch work MMO like WoW

brings you more fun, ok ...

 

but in reality, animations alone makes swtor so much better and

enjoyable then any other MMO outhere ...

 

you know, WoW is nothing, its the lowest common factor ...

its everything-under-the-fantasy-sun ripped together and

labeled as a world ...

 

sophisticated products like swtor can not do that, they are bound

to quality and determination ...

 

if you think WoW is something great your are just an addict ...

 

swtor only brings the realm of single and multi player games

closer to gether ...

 

greetz

[saybut]

Nice post zardosbacon. I agree with most of you are writing. I remeber when AOC was released parts of it was really polished but beneath the surface it was obvious that the game was shipped knowlingly unfinished and I also felt cheated like you do.

 

I dont understand why MMO game companies make this desiscion. It just makes a real bad first impression and stick with the title for entire lifespan.

 

I find this game to be very entertaining from a leveling stand point. I really like the story quests for each class and it is really well done. But things like removing combat text from the chat log, non-userfirnedly interface just makes it feel rushed and I once again feel cheated like I felt in AOC. Look how that game turned out.

 

I really hope they can get their stuff together and sort out theese things fast. Remving "beta" code like hardcoded bugreport keybinings etc would be a start.

[saybut]

Id say it's more age of conan in space ^^

 

This.

[soldenal]

Very long but OP does have quite some good points.

 

For example, like the OP said, the time to travel to and from your questing planet and the fleet is super annoying. I have to plan my day well, either spend quite a few hours doing quests, or spend a few hours at the fleet to go do flash points. Very restricting.

[hammarus]

A well thought out post. I agree with pretty much everything you said.

 

And there are plenty of options to fix it. Item destruction would help the crafting part.

 

Pvp gear should be good only for pvp.

 

All gear should have a limited amount of repair, perhaps 3 tiers of repair ability, but ultimately it all breaks and you have to buy new. Thats for raid, pvp, and pve gear. All of it.

Edited January 7, 2012 by hammarus

[gnarkilli]

I just dunno what people expected.

 

This was the highly anticipated MMO from the makers of KOTOR and Mass Effect, and guess what?

 

 

We got a game that is like a multiplayer version of a hybrid between KOTOR and Mass Effect.

 

 

 

 

 

I jsut hope all these posts stop soon. It seems the people that make them expect those that read the post (I only got half way through) to suddenly wake up and go 'this guy is right, I WILL stop playing this game.'

 

Not going to happen Im afraid, not on the official forum, where the majority love it.

 

 

 

So just go somewhere else and moan about beng cheated you laughable goon.

 

 

 

I feel cheated waaaaaaa

 

 

good god give it a rest.

[sheeldon]

So many promises yet this is just another reskinned default MMO. To be honest, this game made me resubscribe World of Warcraft. If I'm going to pay for a copy I might as well just play the original.

 

Anyway, here's my rant.

 

I leveled up a Bounty Hunter in a PvP server. I had to say, the first two planets were a blast until I realized what was going on. The gameplay is trying to be the the same as World of Warcraft. Sure the new resource system says otherwise, but you still have a 1-5 rotation and the same cooldowns. I specced Bodyguard to heal some FlashPoints and it's exactly the same as playing my Resto Shaman. Seriously, even Earth Shield and Tidal Waves are there. Not cool.

 

The story is just so bland. I feel like they tried to accomplish something, but after the first two planets, the decline is obvious. As a Bounty Hunter, I thought I was going after big targets, for the Empire and the Republic. I thought I was going to kill influential people for money and only money. That's almost what I got. What I got was a revenge driven story where I participate in something called the Great Hunt. In this "Battle Royale-esque" hunt where we hunt for targets first then we hunt hunters, there are no cheap tricks and you're still looking for revenge. Of course, you win the hunt and you're the saviour of the day. It may sound cool from my synopses, but in-game, it looks just as shallow as like any other story on fanfiction, classic Mary Sue. There's no gray-ground in TOR, you're either a Mary Sue or less than nobody.

 

Since we're still talking about the story, let's talk about how a "story-driven" MMO like TOR works. It was sold as one, but it doesn't deliver. The dialogue options are just badly written. It seems to me that BioWare doesn't know what are the dark and light sides. For example, one of the first quests on Smuggler. Medicine was stolen by refugees. As you go to get the medicine back, the refugee says she needed it for a child and the rebel forces took it from her. You go kill the rebel soldiers and when you come back to her you have the option to give her the medicine or just ignore her. Giving her the medicine awards you with Light Points while ignoring her and giving the medicine back to Republic soldiers awards you Dark Points. Serisouly. There isn't a neutral ground. In The Told Republic, the Dark Side choices are either "kill because I want to see you die lol" or "suffer! so dark&edgy xD" while Light Points are the classical White Knight, spare everybody, no harm allowed. If Luke Skywalker destroyed the Death Star on this game, he was going to receive Dark Points for that. Oh, and you can't be neutral in this game or you're going to lose gear. Some gear may only be equipped if you have Light x or Dark y. If you're neutral, that is, above Dark or below Light, you will miss on some pieces of gear. In that 2h podcast TotalBiscuit did praising TOR, Jesse Cox said that he was only picking dark choices because of the gear.

 

Oh, choices. What choices do we have again on this game? Extreme rudeness, I don't care or Polite. Three choices that doesn't change anything at all. The only choices that matter are the dialogue options that awards you with Dark or Light side points. In the end, this is just another mechanic that makes you think you're different from the other player but it's not. You're doing the same missions and the choices you make doesn't change a thing in your story. There is no personal story as the game was telling us that was going to be. It's not there and probably never will. This was a major letdown.

 

On questing, I need to say that this is exactly like World of Warcraft... with a 3 minute cinematic for every kill-and-fetch quest. They said it was going to be different but it isn't. Instead of killing 10 boars and finding Mankrik's wife you have to find a slicer and as a bonus quest, kill 30 thugs. How is this any different? To break it down, you have a major chain quest, the acts. In each act, you're have to go through different planets and to "complete" that planet, you have to so side quests for either the Empire or the Republic. Some side quests have bonus quests. They're usually grind the some NPCs type of quests. This is exactly the same as World of Warcraft: Go to Hyjal, do the major quest line. Good boy. Now I heard that the Warchief wants you in Deepholme, go do that zone now.

 

About zones... Oh, where do I start? I'm not trying to compare here, but it's impossible not to. I have two major complaints about zones. The first one is about instancing. Everything is instanced. While I thought this was amazing in the first days, it got pretty annoying later on. The zones can't handle a lot of people on it at the same time, so you have the same zone but in different phases. For example, to do a Heroic 4+ in Dromund Kass, I had to change phases to see my group. This isn't warned anytime in the game. This is also one of the reasons you always feel like there's nobody in the zone, even though there are over 200+ people in that planet. My second complaint is the art direction. For a game that had over $300mi invested, the art direction is lackluster. You can say whatever you want about Blizzard, that they're jews, that they suck and can't do a decent game, but don't you dare say that they can't do scenarios. BioWare zones makes old Tanaris look like paraside. You can say that this is my opinion and that "art direction" is subjective, but seriously, there's not a zone where I can drool over. Even the fleets are the same. The Impearl Fleet and the Republic Fleet have the same design. C'mon BioWare. World of Warcraft at launch had major cities, and I mean major and gosh darn different. Stormwind was huge, Thunder Bluff was amazing, Undercity has one of the best city designs I have ever seen. What are you guys offering here? A copy of Ironforge for both factions? Another huge letdown. This one actually pisses me off.

 

Also, to get to the fleet, I have to leave my planet to a spaceport. From the planet to the spaceport, I have a 10s loading screen. From that spaceport, that adds nothing in-game, there are no vendors and nothing except my ship, I have to take another "port" to get inside my ship. Another 10s loading screen. Inside my ship, I can travel to the fleet. This takes another 10-30s, easily. After that, I have to leave my ship to get inside the fleet. Another 10s loading screen. I waste more time on loading screens and useless spaceports than actually travelling. This is an example of how much thought BioWare put into this game. No, this isn't immersion because loading screens and filler spaceports are not immersion. Having to get inside my ship just to go to a fleet isn't immersion. Ironically, in Hutta, I can just go to the planet and get a port straight to the fleet. Amazing.

 

Let's talk about classes, shall we? The Told Repubic has 4 starter classes. On level 10, you can choose an advanced class. So, in theory, this game has 8 classes. One may argue that this game has 16 classes, but the Republic classes are the same as the Empire classes, with different names and animations. And this is bad. If you think about yourself, this sounds cool, of course. It wouldn't make sense if a Bounty Hunter has the same moves and animations as a Trooper. Now, if you think about PvP, that's a whole different story. Classic example is the Jedi Sage vs. the Sith Sorcerer. While the Sedi Sage has to wait for the projectile to hit the target to deal damage, the Sith Sorcerer doesn't. While this seems minimal, this can make or break a battle. The originality in class design is just despicable. Bodyguard is copy and paste Resto Shaman. Earth Shield? There. Riptide? There. Tidal Waves mechanic? There. It's doesn't look like a Resto Shaman, it's the same. One may argue that it isn't the same because you don't use mana. I would say he's right and wrong at the same time. It might not look like I don't have a restriction, but it's the same. If you spam your fast and expensive heal, you will run out of mana and you won't be able to heal, right? Well, in TOR, if you spam your fast and expensive heal, you will overheat / run out of force / etc and you won't be able to heal. You are still restricted, just like in World of Warcraft. I'm not saying that doesn't make sense, it does: if you do stupid things, you should get punished for it. What I want to say is that this isn't any different from World of Warcraft like BioWare says it is. To be honest, it's worse. We had a huge mana pool in World of Warcraft, so we could "afford" doing "stupid" things like spamming Chain Heal because we had to cover for a healer dc. In TOR, you can't. Also, healing isn't dynamic as some people say it is in this game. Healing "rotation" is still there. To be honest, It's the same thing we're tired of playing... without mouseover heals. The fact that EA had the audacity to ship a game without macros is unbelievable. We are in 2012 and every f2p in the gosh darn MMO market has macros. Get your **** together, Tyrone.

 

The Auction House... Even fanboys have to agree that this is the most terrible designed Auction House ever. Comparing to World of Warcraft's default Auction House (because this game doesn't support addons so we have to compare default vs. default), TOR's AH is clunky and not user-friendly, thus driving new users away from it. To buy something, you have to choose a category. You can't just put "cobalt" there and press enter. The number of items per page is also ridiculous. If I remember correctly, it's 10 per page. On the other hand, they almost hit the spot when it's about selling. You can just move your item to the AH and it will give you a pre-set price on that item. Notice I said almost, because that's the only thing they did right in the entire system. Major flaws with this Auction House are: 1, you can only post 50 items on the AH. That's ridiculous, why would you do something like that? This caps players that actually use the AH to get some money. I usually sell every BoE I get on the AH for some extra cash. of course, if I sold it, somebody is going to use that BoE for something, either for alts or for Reverse Engineering, it doesn't matter, money was traded. That won't happen in The Old Republic because of the bad design of the Auction House and because of that cap. You are obliged to sell the "important" items. The second major flaw is that the default listing price. In WoW, the cost to list an item is part of the vendor price of said item. In TOR, the cost to list an item is a percentage of the listing price. That's insane. Players just list items for the default price because raising the price for an item it's bad by default. If you list an item for 1000 credits, the AH takes 100c away from you for 2d. If you list it for 100000, it takes you 10000c away. And by listing by the default price, you don't have an undercut market. It just doesn't work BioWare, it's first grade economics for gods sake. This leads me to the final point on this topic: you can't buy low, sell high. Do that and you're warned. Welcome to The Old Republic, comrade. All hail Darth Stalin and the glorious Socialist Empire. Seriosuly though, you can do that, but don't you dare "control" the market. Somebody is dumb and lists a product A for almost half of it's price? Sure you can buy one or two to re-list, but you can't monopolize the market. That's... sigh. Quality Bioware design, gentlemen. If you don't believe me, just google it. Also, dear BioWare, you ripped off World of Warcraft this whole time but you couldn't ripoff Auctioneer? Really? Is it that hard?

 

Moving on, moving on. Let's talk about the revolutionary crafting system. BioWare, thinking controlling the market isn't enough to disrupt the economy, completely destroyed it with companions. No, really. Thank you BioWare. I'll explain it. In The Old Republic, you can send your companions away to get crafting materials for you. Of course, you pay a small fee for it but it's much better than farming it and much cheaper, in theory, than buying them from the auction house. You can also get crafting materials from something they called Mission Professions, that works exactly the same as Gathering Professions (pay, send, get), but they have different materials. But what does this all mean? This means that BioWare destroyed the value on crafting materials. In World of Warcraft or any other MMO in the gosh darn market, you have to spend time to gather materials. This actually attaches a certain value to said material because somebody spent time to grind it. In The Told Republic, you don't need to farm it, because everyone can just afk while their companion do the grinding. This cheapens the value of said material to a point where it's not worth farming it, you can just create an alt with that profession and afk while you play your main. On crafting professions, BioWare just did it all wrong. First of all, all the crafting items are damn hard and expensive to craft. That's would be something good if the vendored PvP items weren't better, cheaper and easier to get. They don't add any stat bonuses to the player, except... Biochem. Biochem is so overpowered that you get a "flask" that you can use how many times you want and it gives you +150 in one stat (if I remember correctly, it's aim). Oh, and that "flask" is also better than any "flask" in the market. So, in theory, if you want to raid any end-game content, Biochem is the only viable profession. Quality Biow... etc.

 

I already talked about what this game has. Let me tell you what it doesn't have:

 

Looking for Group tool / Looking for Group global chat. Even Rift has one. This is probably one of the best things it happened for new players or for alt levelers. It gets them started on PvE without any hard work and you don't have to waste time looking for people. I think it was one of the Rift devs that said once that "Players want to group, they just don't want to start one". I agree. In TOR, this is one of the biggest complaints, after the 0.5s delay on abilities. I support this tool because in that game you have to go back to the fleet to look for a group. It's annoying and also a huge waste of time. One may said that this "destroys" server communities. I say that's a huge lie. First of all, there are no server communities in a game that has no server forums. Second, going back to the fleet to look for a group isn't what I would call social. I get social in guild, in a dungeon, not while I'm looking for players. The tool has no downsides and it saddens me that BioWare added the flashpoint hub attached to the main city but they failed to add a LFG tool.

 

UI and Addons. Okay, it's launch and they "might" add addons. I would be fine with it if the UI was decent enough for people to raid with it. The UI is terrible designed. If you're a healer in TOR, you know what I'm talking about. You can't see durations on your buffs, you don't have target of target nor focus target. The raid frames are a joke. They're not even refreshed every second. You can't see your friend's "energy". The UI only has 2 bars in the center of the screen and two side bars. There are no aggro meters in the stock UI. There are no chat bubbles. So many basic things missing that I feel like BioWare didn't pay enough money for the UI guys. This part of the game is seriously lacking and there's no ETA in a remake of the UI.

 

I think I wrote too much and I'm pretty sure I forgot a lot of things, but anyway, here's the tl;dr:

If you feel like paying for an alpha phase game, go ahead and buy this game. This game was clearly not ready for release. It's a total trainwreck, but hey, if you have fun and you feel like paying for it, who am I to say something? Just don't say this game is any good because it isn't.

 

I will save my money for Guild Wars 2 and / or Final Fantasy XIV 2.0. BioWare is never going to see my money again.

so wat your saying is that u dont like tor cause its like another very very sucseful mmo besides that ur point is invalid ur obv a wow carebear

Edited January 8, 2012 by Paralassa
bad quote

[Xugos]

To be honest, this game made me resubscribe World of Warcraft.

 

 

 

That is exactly what I did.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Xugos

[RickRedOne]

you have cheated enough and making huge profits, now starting fixing the game and make it f2p.

 

f2p will kill this game faster than.....(pick your favorite Star Wars Quote)..

[Tygranir]

w00t!!! only 2 more weeks and all the QQ leaves the forums!!!

[GameTwine]

w00t!!! only 2 more weeks and all the QQ leaves the forums!!!

 

I'll still be here

[Swift]

w00t!!! only 2 more weeks and all the QQ leaves the forums!!!

 

Not really, anybody who didn't come in the very first day of launch will continue on with their free days after that date.