Stunned at how BAD Vangaurd is.

[lueckjathom]

As a leveling healer I will take a Vanguard over either Jedi tank. Good survivability, decent aoe and single target threat, get both a charge and a pull...

 

Can't speak for endgame, but irregardless the OP is pathetic.

[Kozor]

Im stunned. It is the single worst class ive ever seen. What where they thinking when they made this? A tank class with 2 dps trees and a tank tree called "Shield Specialist" with hardly any tank or shield moves. The damage is pathetic the survivability its SHOCKING. Cant even take on low level elites 2 at a time cause i die so fast and the dmg is pathetic. Honestly, Im so mad i chose this class, to anyone considering it. NEVER CHOOSE VANGAURD ITS LITERALLY THE SINGLE WORST THING IVE EVER PLAYED.

 

 

Assault Spec Vanguards are some of highest dps in the game currently. But yeah, until they get Ionic Accelerator they might feel a bit stale.

 

As for Tactics tree - don't bother with it until level 40, it relies very heavily on its top skill.

[grandmasterub]

Hmmm....Okay, im just damn frustrated atm because i expected alot from Van and its not delivering. But ive stacked aim and endurance, and filling out the assualt specialist tree atm.

 

It just seams moves like, Hammer shot, full auto and explosive round do such little dmg. it takes me ages to kill enemies.

 

Now with the talent tree, Do you just focus it on one? or do you go hybrid instantly and fill out all three to best boost you're class?

 

All the classes have two options of playstyle. The vanguard is not "only a tank". Dont expect to be tanky if you aren't shield spec'd.

 

Unfortunately I will agree that the companion and encounter design for the vanguard almost requires you play tank spec, at least for the first half of the game. Also I'm unimpressed with the nontank trees. The dps isn't bad but its not all that impressive considering the damage done in tank spec. I definitely think the AC needs done adjustment. Primarily the tactics tree needs a revamp to a)synergize with gut, ss, hib more b) make hec usable over plasma for dps and c) just straight up do more dps

[flinkytheking]

remove Elara Dorne's attack abilities and face roll to victory

[Olarid]

Don't worry OP. when these folks start doing HM operations, they will then realize what vanguards are lacking as far as dmg and tanking

[Mozivicus]

To the original poster, I'd take a look at your armor possibly. Make sure that it is as high as possible for your rank, and also make sure that it doesn't need to be repaired before you fight the bosses/elites.... it'll make a huge difference. Also, if you're high enough level for it, make sure you buy and equip a generator (shield obviously), an earpiece, and implants...those will give you a HUGE boost to your "tank" stats/attributes.

 

I suck at this game, it's my first PC fps ever, and also my first MMO ever. That being said, even I never die as a shield spec vanguard in PvE ( well, a couple times in flashpoints when I wasn't being healed after taking massive aggro, but I digress).

[grandmasterub]

Don't worry OP. when these folks start doing HM operations, they will then realize what vanguards are lacking as far as dmg and tanking

 

Interesting. I'm leveling a shadow and vanguard simultaneously. The shadow so far has felt superior, however in pvp the vanguard is far and above more beast.

 

Id been thinking of switching to dps on the shadow and tank on the vanguard (since shield spec) seems to be the only polished skill tree. If it only gets worse though maybe I won't and just stick to wz's with the van.

[Olarid]

Interesting. I'm leveling a shadow and vanguard simultaneously. The shadow so far has felt superior, however in pvp the vanguard is far and above more beast.

 

Id been thinking of switching to dps on the shadow and tank on the vanguard (since shield spec) seems to be the only polished skill tree. If it only gets worse though maybe I won't and just stick to wz's with the van.

 

Until you get the perma 20% armor buff for shadow tanks you will take more dmg than VG's but after your def puts you over the top, ntm shadows are probably the best ae agro in the game right.

 

In PVP VG can do good, and they do, but in a PVE environment there are times when no healing is available. VG's don't have the cd's to mitigate that, ntm our def is *** compared to JK and Shad's, we do have the accuracy debuff which is essentially a def buff but if your range tanking anything, you can't apply it.

 

One other thing is agro, the other tanks can you use thier high agro ability while tanking, we can not because the mob has to be at least 10m away to use harpoon.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Olarid

[va_wanderer]

I dont get it. I really dont. I just tried to take on 2 level 16 strong enemies and got battered. My dmg output is so low. The strongest attack i have, my biggest HITTING attack IS a melee where i hit someone with my gun. isnt right is it?

 

Important note for a lot of folks here- this guy is in his high teens or so.

 

That's my range levelwise. I wipe up most groups without breathing heavy. Your companion is going to outDPS you, though- he's a commando, you're a Vanguard - and he can actually tank better as well. You really need some talent points in there before becoming BOSS VANGUARD like most of the folks posting here. That being said, this is what I do.

 

Mortar Volley. Chews up everything good, cleans up the trash. Follow up with your grenades- I usually chuck a Sticky in, which if Volley didn't drop the trash, it will. Duck into cover for to let your cooldown cycle, then pop out and Cryo Grenade -> High Impact Bolt -> Full Auto, since a frozen target is vulnerable to HIB. No, you don't have to set them on fire to get it off. By this point, Sgt. Catboy has probably killed one of them between your first AoE's and his firepower if it's a pair of strongs. Check your health. Is it low for some reason? If it is, duck into cover while firing a Hammer Shot/Explosive Round and let the mob come to you, assuming your companion isn't blowing his kneecaps off at this point. When it does, snap off a quick Ion/Stockstrike and that should finish the job. Otherwise, you can charge in and pummel it instead, but that'll mean more firepower hitting your armor-plated face.

 

The temptation taught by Ord Mantell is that you can stand there and Rambo your way through groups. Don't. Teamwork and cover are your friends.

[AtomicDP]

you can't expect to shine at level 16 lol, level up and learn the class.

[ururururu]

this may hurt to hear but vanguard is absolutely amazing -- it's you that is "not very good".

 

/thread.

[grandmasterub]

Until you get the perma 20% armor buff for shadow tanks you will take more dmg than VG's but after your def puts you over the top, ntm shadows are probably the best ae agro in the game right.

 

In PVP VG can do good, and they do, but in a PVE environment there are times when no healing is available. VG's don't have the cd's to mitigate that, ntm our def is *** compared to JK and Shad's, we do have the accuracy debuff which is essentially a def buff but if your range tanking anything, you can't apply it.

 

One other thing is agro, the other tanks can you use thier high agro ability while tanking, we can not because the mob has to be at least 10m away to use harpoon.

 

Just got there on my shadow. Van is still mid 20s so maybe ill just f focus on the shadow for now.

[Chia_Pet]

im thinking theres a bug somewhere for some people, cause im having same issuses. im lvl 38 have 5.5k defense, 8+k health, 10% defense,33%shield, 30%absorb, and people are tearing me apart.

 

trying to do the extract scientist on Quesh and fighting commander Jesh and hes ripping me a new one, last night before patch i was doing awesome, now even the strong gammoreeans with the axes outside are giving me problems, im confused.

 

in PvP dude my lvl rip through me 1v1 in no time and take little damage.

 

seriously like to know what im doing wrong.

[Krijgsheer]

Maybe it's just not your class. But I find Vanguard (shield spec) insanely powerful. I have close to no downtime and I pretty much can't die.

 

Failing in playing one of the strongest classes and being mad about it, isn't worth a thread tbh.

[origional]

NEVER CHOOSE VANGAURD ITS LITERALLY THE SINGLE WORST THING IVE EVER PLAYED.

 

I don't know where you get your delusions from laser brain.

[DaoJones]

Maybe it's just not your class. But I find Vanguard (shield spec) insanely powerful. I have close to no downtime and I pretty much can't die.

 

Failing in playing one of the strongest classes and being mad about it, isn't worth a thread tbh.

Honestly, this. Once you get your healer (end of Taris) it's pretty much free money until cap. You tank, she heals, things die that don't include you.

 

Once, for yuks, I took on some champion-level gold mob on Alderaan with just me and my healer. Granted, I had three levels on the thing, but it had 73k health and was some giant robot. I won, no sweat. (It did take a while!) There literally isn't a single mob I have *ever* encountered in the open world I could not kill solo with a little time and patience.

 

I'm almost worried about playing another class because my Vanguard is so stupidly strong I'm spoiled by him. Yeah, I certainly don't have the highest DPS, but the fact that I pretty much only lose 1v1 PvP fights against healers (specifically Sorcerers; I can usually beat Operatives) means I really can only go down from here.

 

Free bit of advice? Pair Biochem with Vanguard. The reusable stims, medpacs and adrenals take an already tough class and make it noticeably more so.

[origional]

Some champions you can kill without a huge amount of difficulty, but others you wont have a hope in hell of killing solo. Robot champions tend to be fairly easy, Sith Champions make you their squishy toy.

[Dersu]

Hmmm....Okay, im just damn frustrated atm because i expected alot from Van and its not delivering. But ive stacked aim and endurance, and filling out the assualt specialist tree atm.

 

It just seams moves like, Hammer shot, full auto and explosive round do such little dmg. it takes me ages to kill enemies.

 

Now with the talent tree, Do you just focus it on one? or do you go hybrid instantly and fill out all three to best boost you're class?

 

I am playing assault Vanguard at the moment and I find it excellant. I am currently level 41 and below is my build. I have very little downtime between pulls whilst using M1-4X as tank and can take on groups including strong mobs with relative ease.

 

http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/trooper/vanguard/#::f8e2f9e2f2ef15ce2fefef2ef4e4

[Sunrock]

Well I have done a few hard mode flashpoints and normal mode operations as main tank and TBH. The Vanguard tank is lacking something. If you compare it to a guardian tank...

 

Maybe its me or I got a sucky healer or maybe the truth is some where in between but I have still a hard time compare it to guardian tanking abilities.

 

However for PvP we rock. Nothing can really stop us. I usually end up in the top 3 even when my team looses.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Sunrock

[Ekemeister]

Sorry if Don't contribute much to this conversation (i have not played trooper). The OP's post is as troll-tastic as the Sith Assassin can't pvp thread.

 

Three things you need to reevaluate are build, stats, and rotation. Build would be to make sure that your are taking the right talents(skills) for your role. SWTOR is more strategic than you're blase mmo.

 

Like any good game, completely stacking one skill can get you killed in some cases. Are you sure none of the secondary skills are not needed (i.e. Absorption or Defense rating or Armor).

 

Rotation is self-explanatory, but I'll just give an anecdote. Bioware doesn't give any tutorials about how they intend for their classes to be used. During most of Balmorra, I thought discharge dispelled the charge on my saber (lightning charge). Once i figured out that it didn't and why it should be part of my rotation, my dps jumped. My dps jumped again, when I finally realized that thrash is the main attack, not maul. All do each player cringes when they read L2P, each of us have to learn to play our class.

 

edit: i know that you're lv 16, so some of these points may not matter to you. But trust me, you'll care later.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Ekemeister

[origional]

Second, at level 16 your attacks are very weak. No shields and few few taunts so don't worry, your coming from a valid point. However, once you hit around level 20-25 you'll receive a few more taunts and many more AoE attacks.

 

 

Even at higher levels I barely need taunts in PVE. Maybe if im taking on 4 mobs and a couple are strong, one will start shooting at my companion so I'll use a taunt, or a patrol will wonder in. but other than that, pfft. Trash and strongs go down to hammer shot and explsocive charge pretty easy.

[SladetheHunter]

Im stunned. It is the single worst class ive ever seen. What where they thinking when they made this? A tank class with 2 dps trees and a tank tree called "Shield Specialist" with hardly any tank or shield moves. The damage is pathetic the survivability its SHOCKING. Cant even take on low level elites 2 at a time cause i die so fast and the dmg is pathetic. Honestly, Im so mad i chose this class, to anyone considering it. NEVER CHOOSE VANGAURD ITS LITERALLY THE SINGLE WORST THING IVE EVER PLAYED.

 

I'm surprised no one has brought up the obvious: maybe this Advanced Class doesnt fit your playstyle? Maybe you should make a new trooper and go Commando instead? Or even another class entirely. I love my Trooper and Bounty Hunter but cant play a Smuggler or Jedi/Sith to save my life.

[Olarid]

Well I have done a few hard mode flashpoints and normal mode operations as main tank and TBH. The Vanguard tank is lacking something. If you compare it to a guardian tank...

 

Maybe its me or I got a sucky healer or maybe the truth is some where in between but I have still a hard time compare it to guardian tanking abilities.

 

However for PvP we rock. Nothing can really stop us. I usually end up in the top 3 even when my team looses.

 

It's definitely missing some aspects but leveling and questing with a healer companion provides zero insight on the class itself.

 

Once you start tanking HM Operations along side a JK in tier 2, the differences will be apparent. All you have to do is spreadsheet the armor stats on the tier 2 armor between JK's and Vanguards. We beat them by 410 hps and about 10% absorption, they beat us by double in shield rating and times 4 in defense. The only benefit we have is the armor mit and smoke grenade, the 16% armor benefit only gives about 3.5% mitigation to physical dmg over them while they out mit us on internal/elemental and ntm they have thier bubble from bladestorm, we have reactive shield.

 

Also throw in Enure, warding call, rebuke, and saber ward and it's a no brainer.

[joaltendorf]

Im stunned. It is the single worst class ive ever seen. What where they thinking when they made this? A tank class with 2 dps trees and a tank tree called "Shield Specialist" with hardly any tank or shield moves. The damage is pathetic the survivability its SHOCKING. Cant even take on low level elites 2 at a time cause i die so fast and the dmg is pathetic. Honestly, Im so mad i chose this class, to anyone considering it. NEVER CHOOSE VANGAURD ITS LITERALLY THE SINGLE WORST THING IVE EVER PLAYED.

 

go and play with doll,s

[Evin]

Im stunned. It is the single worst class ive ever seen. What where they thinking when they made this? A tank class with 2 dps trees and a tank tree called "Shield Specialist" with hardly any tank or shield moves. The damage is pathetic the survivability its SHOCKING. Cant even take on low level elites 2 at a time cause i die so fast and the dmg is pathetic. Honestly, Im so mad i chose this class, to anyone considering it. NEVER CHOOSE VANGAURD ITS LITERALLY THE SINGLE WORST THING IVE EVER PLAYED.

 

lmao.