Why aren't we allowed to complain?

[Griminal]

End game of WoW sucks. Weak PVP or the same instances over and over. Do you remember WoW at launch? It had NOTHING. No raids, no PVP, no end agme content. Hey, we're already getting a new flashpoint this month plus we have the other stuff. It already has a ton of endgame for an MMO launch.

 

 

You do understand TOR end game is set up exactly the same as WoW's end game right? Daily quests, normal mode dungeons and raids, and heroic mode dungeons and raids as well as battlegrounds. It's the exact same. So I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make here.

 

Also WoW had MC,LBRS,UBRS,Scholo and Strat at launch. All raids.

[aosmouse]

This game rocks!

 

I have never played WOW and couldn't give a toss what the game experience was like. If you love it so much, go back to WoW.

 

I have played Rift and I enjoyed it, but once i arrived at Level 50, I had nothing left to do.

TOR I love! Why? Because I have playd Mass Effect 1 & 2 and Dragon Age 1 and 2 and TOR has a very similar RPG feel to it. I like how interactive TOR is. I like that my character actually speaks and I don't have to read text, if I don't want to when my character responds or talks.

 

So I not complain!

[Yfelsung]

You do understand TOR end game is set up exactly the same as WoW's end game right? Daily quests, normal mode dungeons and raids, and heroic mode dungeons and raids as well as battlegrounds. It's the exact same. So I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make here.

 

Also WoW had MC,LBRS,UBRS,Scholo and Strat at launch. All raids.

 

But the gameplay is superior in SWTOR.

 

WoW had lots of raids at launch. Lots of really terrible raids related to their terrible lore written by their terrible writers.

 

Remember raiding Strat? How many trash pulls between bosses, like 20?

 

So far most dungeons in SWTOR have allowed you to hit a boss after about 5 necessary trash pulls (more pulls if you want them, but they can be avoided.)

 

SWTOR raids are also written by actual RPG writers, they're in a much better universe and the encounters themselves I find better designed with better visual cues and no need for any sort of raiding addons (and I like addons, but DBM was invented because Blizzard can't make good raid encounters with good cues).

 

Blizzard has a lot of great gameplay features, and a lot of content, but WoW still has one of the most terrible worlds/universes ever conceived... or at least it was that bad once WoW was done butchering the previous lore from WC1 through 3.

[stoopidboiy]

You're forgetting though. When WoW was released people were willing to wait in the queue of fixes because "it was the best." SWTOR is by no means "the best". It is fairly average in a few aspects, and rather poor is the majority of aspects. People wont just enter any random movie because it has no queue, but people will watch the blockbuster movies that have hour long queues (read: Harry Potter Deathly Hallows 1+2) because they're worth the wait.

 

SWTOR isn't worth the wait. It's missing too much.

 

The best? Hardly. Just about everything on the market at the time had either already grown stagnant or was well on its way (for the majority of the MMO community, not everyone obviously).

 

I actually played WoW at release. Now, not saying you didn't, you just haven't mentioned it when you started playing up to this point. The game was a mess. People stuck around, but not because it was the best. It was simply new. And it had a lot of weight behind it's name, thanks to the success of the original Warcraft series. Kinda like how SWTOR has gotten such a big draw thanks to the Star Wars title and the fact that it's BioWare making it. Most people were willing to stick around and wait out the bullsh*t in the early days of WoW because they were simply tired of doing the same old sh*t in the other games they'd been playing for the last 5+ years.

 

You say SWTOR isn't worth the wait and yet thousands of people have been waiting years to play it and are still more than willing to wait for the expected bugs to be ironed out.

[Tsavis]

The game is still in beta. This much is obvious. There are a ton of bugs which make the game incomplete.

 

Why are so many people against other people complaining about legitimate issues? This game is a complete failure at the moment. Someone asked me, the other day, to give my run down of SWTOR, WoW and Rift and this is what I came up with:

 

Rift > WoW > SWTOR in terms of difficulty (cutting edge raiding)

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of combat smoothness

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of accessibility

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of story

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of efficiency

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of PvP

SWTOR > Rift > WoW in terms of levelling

WoW > SWTOR > Rift in terms of balance

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of playable content

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of 'size'

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of MMO

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of RPG

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of number of cinematics

 

I do not care if WoW came out in the year 2004, the fact is we're in 2012 and many of the things SWTOR currently lacks WoW had, and was praised for (smoothness of combat) during it's initial first few months of launch. My accurate breakdown of WoW, Rift and SWTOR doesn't make SWTOR any less of a game, for me. I want SWTOR to succeed, but it needs to be brought up to present day expectations.

 

I don't know what you mean by accessability, or effiecency. But on some of the other points. Balance in world of magecraft is a joke.

PVP wise, I think rift beats out both I love their bg's.But that's a matter of opinion, and not actual fact. I enjoy bg's and hope that ToR will get a level 50 bracket I'm tired of getting my backside handed to me on a platter by level 50s in pvp gear.

As far as size and playable content Tor, is quite big as newly launched game.

Wow of course has had the advantage of several years and several expansions, of course they are going to be bigger. MMO...massively multiplayers online? I don't see wait times of 30 minutes on wow servers.

[maxbaby]

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of playable content

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of 'size'

 

Seems like you played till level 15, honey.

Ofc, you can go to WoW and travel the HUGE world of Azeroth.

 

Or you can play the old and outdated raids no one cares about.

Or you can play those cata heroics everyone's tired of.

 

Or you can sit in SW or ORG and troll "trade" there.

 

Enjoy.

[Napalmbrain]

Are you kidding me? Are you delusional? EVERY thread is a complaint.

 

The problem is this...we can't complain about you complainers.

 

I get moderated every time I bash you babies for crying about trivial things, yet apparently you can bash this game, Bioware, and EA and not only do they not moderate it, they support it.

 

I am growing tired of this, thinking about retiring from the forums, pretty much useless coming here now.

[Mmaxers]

It's because it's the same collection of attention junkies hanging around the forums posting the same crap over and over again.

 

Please please take your knowledge and experience, (along with every other pyjama programmer in here, who thinks they are the worlds leading expert in game production and design) and go and get yourself employed by a company in this line of work. I'm sure you will excell and be promoted to lead designers in a matter of weeks.

 

Better still, make your own game - You are all obviously what the world has been waiting for and together, will be able to eliminate the possiblility of amatures like Blizz and BW releasing 'crap' like this for you to disapprove of in the future.

 

Valid and relevant points regarding the game's problems were posted in well written, constructive threads a long time ago. Some annoying plum positing over and over about the same issues and how they are going to cancel subscriptions if it isn't sorted in a week gets on people's nerves eventually. It is even more annoying when those people don't actually leave.

[Griminal]

But the gameplay is superior in SWTOR.

 

WoW had lots of raids at launch. Lots of really terrible raids related to their terrible lore written by their terrible writers.

 

Remember raiding Strat? How many trash pulls between bosses, like 20?

 

So far most dungeons in SWTOR have allowed you to hit a boss after about 5 necessary trash pulls (more pulls if you want them, but they can be avoided.)

 

SWTOR raids are also written by actual RPG writers, they're in a much better universe and the encounters themselves I find better designed with better visual cues and no need for any sort of raiding addons (and I like addons, but DBM was invented because Blizzard can't make good raid encounters with good cues).

 

Blizzard has a lot of great gameplay features, and a lot of content, but WoW still has one of the most terrible worlds/universes ever conceived... or at least it was that bad once WoW was done butchering the previous lore from WC1 through 3.

 

I don't know why you're telling me all this. I never said WoW's end game was amazing or better than TOR, or that old WoW was amazing. I simply pointed out some facts to someone who seemed to be very confused.

 

Why are you getting so defensive by some simple facts?

Edited January 6, 2012 by Griminal

[Twaggy]

I posted this in a thread earlier that was from someone standing aside while the others do their thing.

 

"There are many valid points in this thread, but let me just make my case.

 

1: I hate the fanboys

2: I hate the trolls

3: I hate the haters (funny eh? lol)

4: I hate the fact that people want to try and make this game work better by reporting things are drowned out by the above mentioned three. This is the point the OP was trying to make, sure go ahead and report the bugs, say what is wrong. But don't do it in an unhelpful and useless way like many do on this forum.

 

This is how I see most threads and posts on this forum.

 

"<insert bug here> is making it impossible for me to play! WHY IS THIS NOT FIXED WHY WAS IT NOT SORTED IN BETA I WANT SOME COMPENSATION AND IF I DONT IM LEAVING!"

 

This is not the correct way of "getting yourself heard", these people get ignored or flamed.

 

This is the correct way (in my opinion) to report something and get heard.

 

"Hello there, perhaps you could help? When I first logged on I played with my settings and accidently turned off General Chat in the preferences. After I realised what I did i then quickly rechecked the box to activate it again and pressed "apply". However my chat still does not work.

 

I have checked to see if a restart would fix this problem, however the problem persists. and I have checked to see if its only localised to <planet name> but it also doesnt work on any other planet Ive gone to.

 

The character I am having trouble with is called Lawnton, lvl 24 on Mask of Nihilus server. I hope this can be resolved soon as I would like to see other people talking too!"

 

That in my opinion is a perfectly good post, it's written well and is very informative of what exactly happened and shows your own steps on trying to resolve it.

 

If more people did this instead of that "IM GUNNA LEAVE IF YOU DONT FIX <bug> RIGHT NOW!" Im sure the community wouldnt be as aggresive towards one another.

It's not what you use, it's how you use it. "

 

That sums up what is wrong with this community.

[Yfelsung]

I don't know why you're telling me all this. I never said WoW's end game was amazing or better than TOR, or that old WoW was amazing. I simply pointed out some facts to someone who seemed to be very confused.

 

Why are you getting so defensive by some simple facts?

 

Your posting mannerisms made it seem as though you were implying WoW was the superior game.

 

My bad.

 

But my point does stand. WoW had lots of content at launch. Lots of terrible, terrible content.

 

I mean, a fire lord from the fire lands? Who's at war with other elemental gods?

 

It's the kind of stuff a 1st grader comes up with.

[Deathfyre]

How many games, let alone MMO's do you know that have released bug free? How many of those games have been as quick to fix many of the issues. Yes there are bugs and problems but that is the way all games are. Even the established games still have bugs. Just be glad you haven't had your boot.ini or similiarily vital system files deleted by a game patch as has happened before in another game. You should have some patience, SWTOR's launch is one of the smoothest and game breaking bug free I've seen in a many years of playing these games.

 

You are allowed to complain, unfortunately the internet gives every simpleton the ability to spew pixelated diarrhea. Few so far complain in a constructive and helpful manner. When you run into problems, submit a proper bug report, add screenshots if possible. Explain in detail what you did that made what ever bad ju ju happen.

[Griminal]

Your posting mannerisms made it seem as though you were implying WoW was the superior game.

 

My bad.

 

But my point does stand. WoW had lots of content at launch. Lots of terrible, terrible content.

 

I mean, a fire lord from the fire lands? Who's at war with other elemental gods?

 

It's the kind of stuff a 1st grader comes up with.

 

 

 

Posting mannerisms? Some guys said WoWs end game sucks, and that it had no end game at launch. I simply corrected him and let him know that if he doesn't like WoW's end game design then he probably isn't going to like TOR's either.

 

I would also like to meet these first graders that are coming up with stories of elemental gods and fire lords lol

[Xenich]

SWTOR > Rift > WoW in terms of levelling

 

You think they got leveling right?

 

Leveling is completely imbalanced. SWTOR has an extremely in-depth crafting and gearing system through multiple tiers of reverse engineering gear for varied effects and focuses. You have multiple companions to which you must also outfit as well. The crafting process is extremely costly and a time lengthy process, yet putting any real attention to "properly" gearing up your characters/companions as you level results wasted effort due to the exp being far too quickly obtained.

 

In many cases you have to power up the crafting far above the level and then begin working on gear well above your level as well in order to have any remote chance of the gear being level appropriate when you complete it.

 

The main problem with the current leveling pace is that the chance to gain recipes through reverse engineering can be very unforgiving. This would be fine for a level 50 process, but as I said, the leveling is so fast that most of the time you spend your time making a few blues and moving on as if you put the time and effort to really gear yourself and your companions up, you are far above the level of that gears usefulness by the time you finish.

 

Since the most efficient means of making money is to quest (space and normal quests) and the money required can be enormous at times, it becomes rather a pointless endeavor as the exp gained from such is extremely large.

 

So, "leveling" as you say is by far the worst of these games, though I think I see based on your evaluation what you place as a priority considering Rift also suffered from too fast a pace of exp to fully experience the content.

 

With SWTOR, the one of two things needs to be done. 1) Lower the exp gained allowing content to be experienced at a more even progression or 2) increase the rate of return as to which that content can be experienced (higher or a more even chance of obtaining the gear). Personally, I prefer extending the time that it takes in leveling as all of the depth of the system seems rather pointless due to the pace and there seems more than an adequate supply of questing content to achieve this.

 

The point is, your "evaluation" contains very specific subjective evaluations that while may fit your desire, do not fit others. Since you do not properly explain your complaints of the issues, it leaves people with the impression that you are throwing a tantrum while you demand the game be made exactly to your subjective specifications, which many have fled previous games due to their attention to such dramatic complaints leaving those previous games to be watered down pointless grinds.

 

My suggestion is that if you want to be taken seriously, you outline your complaint about the game and provide reasoning as well as a solution. This way, people can see "why" you are complaining and if it is an actual valid complaint. This game is far from perfect, it has numerous bugs and issues, but stomping your feet and throwing around demands is only deserving of the response of "go to your room child".

 

So think about it next time and respond accordingly.

[LeSamourai]

opinions as fact

 

oh boy

 

popcorn.gif

[stupidhero]

Your posting mannerisms made it seem as though you were implying WoW was the superior game.

 

My bad.

 

But my point does stand. WoW had lots of content at launch. Lots of terrible, terrible content.

 

I mean, a fire lord from the fire lands? Who's at war with other elemental gods?

 

It's the kind of stuff a 1st grader comes up with.

 

Yet any ToR Operation boss will never give you the feeling of achievement, which you got out of killing Ragnaros after hours and hours of wiping.

 

Story is nice and all for an INDIVIDUAL, but it does not create community, guilds and friendships, which are fundamental for a MMO. WoW mastered this aspect, BW failed miserably.

 

edit:

 

Though the be honest, Cataclysm destroyed the community aspect of WoW completely :>

Edited January 6, 2012 by stupidhero

[BobTheTeepo]

I don't know what you mean by accessability, or effiecency. But on some of the other points. Balance in world of magecraft is a joke.

PVP wise, I think rift beats out both I love their bg's.But that's a matter of opinion, and not actual fact. I enjoy bg's and hope that ToR will get a level 50 bracket I'm tired of getting my backside handed to me on a platter by level 50s in pvp gear.

As far as size and playable content Tor, is quite big as newly launched game.

Wow of course has had the advantage of several years and several expansions, of course they are going to be bigger. MMO...massively multiplayers online? I don't see wait times of 30 minutes on wow servers.

 

Good news then, 50 bracket is coming in January says Bioware. http://www.swtor.com/blog/new-year%E2%80%99s-pvp-update

 

People who are annoyed at the game's current state, unsub for like 2 months then come back. They've already addressed most PvP concerns, the rest of the complaints -- I can't imagine -- are far off.

Edited January 6, 2012 by BobTheTeepo

[Yfelsung]

Posting mannerisms? Some guys said WoWs end game sucks, and that it had no end game at launch. I simply corrected him and let him know that if he doesn't like WoW's end game design then he probably isn't going to like TOR's either.

 

I would also like to meet these first graders that are coming up with stories of elemental gods and fire lords lol

 

Did you not have an imagination as a kid and watch Captain Planet?

 

When I was in Kindergarten, a long time ago at this point, "Elementalism' was the big thing in kids TV and games. Everything was fire this, water that. There were these toys that use the Asian elemental scheme (Fire, Water, Air, Wood, Metal).

 

Because of this, I can remember personally writing stories in my little work books involving all kinds of elemental themes in the 1st grade.

[yodimaster]

You do understand TOR end game is set up exactly the same as WoW's end game right? Daily quests, normal mode dungeons and raids, and heroic mode dungeons and raids as well as battlegrounds. It's the exact same. So I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make here.

 

Also WoW had MC,LBRS,UBRS,Scholo and Strat at launch. All raids.

 

Lies because molten core didn't arrive till almost3 months later. Those other raids are nothing but heroic zones.

[youwillburn]

You think they got leveling right?

 

Leveling is completely imbalanced. SWTOR has an extremely in-depth crafting and gearing system through multiple tiers of reverse engineering gear for varied effects and focuses. You have multiple companions to which you must also outfit as well. The crafting process is extremely costly and a time lengthy process, yet putting any real attention to "properly" gearing up your characters/companions as you level results wasted effort due to the exp being far too quickly obtained.

 

In many cases you have to power up the crafting far above the level and then begin working on gear well above your level as well in order to have any remote chance of the gear being level appropriate when you complete it.

 

The main problem with the current leveling pace is that the chance to gain recipes through reverse engineering can be very unforgiving. This would be fine for a level 50 process, but as I said, the leveling is so fast that most of the time you spend your time making a few blues and moving on as if you put the time and effort to really gear yourself and your companions up, you are far above the level of that gears usefulness by the time you finish.

 

Since the most efficient means of making money is to quest (space and normal quests) and the money required can be enormous at times, it becomes rather a pointless endeavor as the exp gained from such is extremely large.

 

So, "leveling" as you say is by far the worst of these games, though I think I see based on your evaluation what you place as a priority considering Rift also suffered from too fast a pace of exp to fully experience the content.

 

With SWTOR, the one of two things needs to be done. 1) Lower the exp gained allowing content to be experienced at a more even progression or 2) increase the rate of return as to which that content can be experienced (higher or a more even chance of obtaining the gear). Personally, I prefer extending the time that it takes in leveling as all of the depth of the system seems rather pointless due to the pace and there seems more than an adequate supply of questing content to achieve this.

 

The point is, your "evaluation" contains very specific subjective evaluations that while may fit your desire, do not fit others. Since you do not properly explain your complaints of the issues, it leaves people with the impression that you are throwing a tantrum while you demand the game be made exactly to your subjective specifications, which many have fled previous games due to their attention to such dramatic complaints leaving those previous games to be watered down pointless grinds.

 

My suggestion is that if you want to be taken seriously, you outline your complaint about the game and provide reasoning as well as a solution. This way, people can see "why" you are complaining and if it is an actual valid complaint. This game is far from perfect, it has numerous bugs and issues, but stomping your feet and throwing around demands is only deserving of the response of "go to your room child".

 

So think about it next time and respond accordingly.

 

I think it's less about the pace and more about how entertaining the level is

[Yfelsung]

Yet any ToR Operation boss will never give you the feeling of achievement, which you got out of killing Ragnaros after hours and hours of wiping.

 

Story is nice and all for an INDIVIDUAL, but it does not create community, guilds and friendships, which are fundamental for a MMO. WoW mastered this aspect, BW failed miserably.

 

edit:

 

Though the be honest, Cataclysm destroyed the community aspect of WoW completely :>

 

I'm an RPer on an RP server.

 

Story is as important to us, and is the number one thing that builds our community, as anything else.

 

We make multiple page threads asking to sit in chairs dude, think about it.

[Grrl]

The game is still in beta.

 

To pay is nothing less then a slap to the face, an insult to every intelligence being on planet earth!

[Griminal]

Did you not have an imagination as a kid and watch Captain Planet?

 

When I was in Kindergarten, a long time ago at this point, "Elementalism' was the big thing in kids TV and games. Everything was fire this, water that. There were these toys that use the Asian elemental scheme (Fire, Water, Air, Wood, Metal).

 

Because of this, I can remember personally writing stories in my little work books involving all kinds of elemental themes in the 1st grade.

 

Ya, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you completely made that up lol

[Yfelsung]

Ya, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you completely made that up lol

 

Okay, so you didn't grow up in the 80s apparently.

[stupidhero]

I'm an RPer on an RP server.

 

Story is as important to us, and is the number one thing that builds our community, as anything else.

 

We make multiple page threads asking to sit in chairs dude, think about it.

 

As a RPer you need a background story sufficient enough, so that you are able to create your own story. I'm quite confident that you guys all having the same story going for you and the same companions at your side helps a lot with that. Or the means given by BW to create your RP (like the ability to sit on chairs).

 

ToR provides to much background for each character to really allow for RP (and thus a community), and offers to little of an enviroment for good RP (technical aspects here).