Why aren't we allowed to complain?

[EssBen]

never seen an MMO forum where mouth foaming rage quit threads were treated any differently.

 

Well written bug/issue posts tend to go well until they are derailed by trolls.

[Cranberries]

So, if I had a difference of opinion, it's already discounted as 'feeble'? And you complain about people's reactions?

 

Tell me in which category I am incorrect, and I'll argue my point better than yours, thus winning and being crowned King of the Internet.

[xNonphixionx]

The game is still in beta. This much is obvious. There are a ton of bugs which make the game incomplete.

 

Why are so many people against other people complaining about legitimate issues? This game is a complete failure at the moment. Someone asked me, the other day, to give my run down of SWTOR, WoW and Rift and this is what I came up with:

Rift > WoW > SWTOR in terms of difficulty (cutting edge raiding) LMAO...

 

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of combat smoothness Yeah Rift is very smooth combat considering every skill has the EXACT same animation....

 

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of accessibility This is interesting because the Rift forums are littered with people saying how inaccesible raiding is to the majority of players.

 

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of story Sure.

 

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of efficiency Efficiency?

 

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of PvP You PVP in Rift? That's your problem...You keep buying PvE games and expecting epic PVP. Rifts open world PVP is one of the worste in mmo history. Lets put 2 teams in a wide open field and tell them to attack each other, whoever has the most aoe wins!

SWTOR > Rift > WoW in terms of levelling Sure

 

WoW > SWTOR > Rift in terms of balance I really dont see how ANYONE can even remotely judge the balance in SWTOR 2 weeks after release when half the warfronts are a mix of level 10's and 50's.

 

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of playable content I dont think so at all...In Rift you level up to 50 once and then do your daily's. Have fun leveling an alt in Rift as it's the EXACT same as the first character you leveled.

 

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of 'size' There's no way in HELL that Rift is larger than SWTOR...SWTOR is at the very least, DOUBLE the size of Rift in terms of sheer land mass.

 

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of MMO I'm unsure how one mmo can be more of an mmo than the other...It's either an mmo or it's not. They are all mmo's...

 

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of RPG ....

 

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of number of cinematics Why even mention this?

 

I do not care if WoW came out in the year 2004, the fact is we're in 2012 and many of the things SWTOR currently lacks WoW had, and was praised for (smoothness of combat) during it's initial first few months of launch. My accurate breakdown of WoW, Rift and SWTOR doesn't make SWTOR any less of a game, for me. I want SWTOR to succeed, but it needs to be brought up to present day expectations.

 

Have you even played Rift? One planet on SWTOR is like the size of the entire Rift world lol. Oh and wait...Rift is difficult? Yeah it's so hard with my Rogue having 11 skills macro'd only 1 button and spamming 2 buttons the entire raid while topping the dps charts. Honestly...If you think Rift and WOW are difficult then I'd HATE to play a game like FFXI or Lineage 2 with you...

 

Oh and the fact that you mention World of Warcraft as being "difficult" in any way shape or form just shows how little experience you have in mmorpg's. I assume you have only ever played WOW, Rift and SWTOR? How old are you? 15?

[BobTheTeepo]

You haven't dealt with end game, have you?

 

End game isn't the ONLY content.

[Mertissielle]

you obviously do not like this game

 

..so why are you here posting this?

 

Go play Hello Panda Adventure or whatever you want. You aren't forced to play this.

 

I don't like WoW anymore and haven't played in months, but I don't go post on the WoW forums about how I dislike it so much.

 

????????????

 

Bioware, please start banning people for contentless drivel like this. He said in the OP that he is enjoying the game and wants it to succeed but pointed out a few areas in which it could be improved. The game is not perfect. Neither is World of Warcraft. Neither is Rift. HOWEVER, his well thought out and interesting post attempted to distinguish the specific areas in which they differ, rather than simply relying on blanket statements.

 

If you're just trolling then fine, you got me. I fell for it. If you're not though, then you just appear to be mind-crushingly stupid and incapable of any form of debate whatsoever. I don't even care that I'm being silly and reverting to your level with the ad hom here, brainless posters like you drive me up the wall and make this forum so frustrating when it should be a nice place to get information and talk to your fellow players about both the things you enjoy and the things that you hope they work on next.

[titanmike]

You haven't dealt with end game, have you?

Well, then this game is not for you. Move along and go on about your life.

What do you want us to do about it?

 

I will continue to play for as long as I have fun, and when I stop having fun I will simply leave.

 

I am not sure why people continue to think posting here telling others about this is getting them or the game anywhere.

 

I don't know what you expect from us, some of us will like or love the game, that's the cool thing about opinion, everyone has one.

 

Just because I like the game, yet see the flaws and bugs does not make my opinion any more or less worthy than anyone else.

[Zedfragg]

WoW was good once, then Cata was released /shudder

Now they have fighting Panda's...I'm good to leave that well alone...

Although OP does have interesting views on the three games which is cool to read.

[DarthKhaos]

Aaannnddd Close Thread.

[Saber_Six]

Ahh, another "This game suxs and if you don't agree you're just not as cool as me!" thread.

[Keii]

Because people will complain and do complain about everything.

 

"Patch the game or I quit!" "Game patched too much, I quit!"

"Server maintenance too long!" "Server maintenance too short!"

 

"Map UI is blue, please change it"

 

Week 1: "Staggered Early Access sucks, I can't play!"

Week 2: "There are queues, I can't play!"

Week 3: "The servers are too empty, I can't enjoy playing!"

[Cranberries]

End game isn't the ONLY content.

 

It's the focal point in a few point. I'm willing to bet people would rather experience end game content rather than relevel and watch the same cinematics 7 different times purely for a "new story."

 

I've level 2 level 50s, one Empire [my main], one Republic [alt~], and I'm bored of the cinematics already.

[Zinny]

I've level 2 level 50s, one Empire [my main], one Republic [alt~], and I'm bored of the cinematics already.

 

Maybe don't play like a maniac then. 2 level 50's? God damn.

[Mertissielle]

End game isn't the ONLY content.

 

But given that levelling is a finite process, even if you level literally every advanced class on both sides. Ultimately, levelling has an end point. Endgame does not and is, therefore, the most vital thing to keeping players subscribed for more than a few months.

 

Endgame may not be the "ONLY content" but it's the only content that ultimately matters when it comes to people playing consistently for several years.

[titanmike]

It's the focal point in a few point. I'm willing to bet people would rather experience end game content rather than relevel and watch the same cinematics 7 different times purely for a "new story."

 

I've level 2 level 50s, one Empire [my main], one Republic [alt~], and I'm bored of the cinematics already.

Personally, I enjoy the difference in the way classes play, I have 6 characters already made.

 

Quite the emphasis was put on the story line and leveling different characters.

[Pblogic]

I don't know how to fix the mess Bioware has created. I'm not a programmar, nor do I pretend to be one. I do know that animation length is largely to do with the combat system being wildly unresponsive and slow, but I have no idea how to fix it other than "allow clipping" (what WoW does, hence their incredibly smooth combat system).

 

What people fail to remember is this: SWTOR does the aestethics of a game well, they do the core gameplay, mechanics and basic functions however rather poorly. This is my gripe with the game. The majority seem to be content, and pleased, that the game appeals to aestethics users rather than users who strive for good (read=complete, working, smooth) gameplay.

 

I don't want clipping like in wow. It destroys for me my "suspension of disbelief". No offense meant at all but you raid/l337/power players just have a different perspective than many of us. I get that this is somehow a competition for you, but the reason I like this game is because it is NOT like wow, where everything is about perfect balance and while there is good lore the story takes a back seat to people jumping in circles around each other until someone is dead.

 

I like the story, I wouldn't be here at all if it didn't look good, and have a good story. Making it "fluid" like wow would ruin it for me personally. If I wanted to play wow I would play wow (I did, and it doesn't suit me). I want to play a story focused game... To me, when it becomes focused on perfect balance and function over form it loses it's interest. It becomes all numbers... why even have a graphical interface at all? Graphics are clunky. Why not sit in chat rooms and use random number generators to see who "wins" in "PvP".....

 

To me, individuals with this perspective want to strip the soul out of the game.... and without the soul... well what does any of it matter?

[Zinny]

You haven't dealt with end game, have you?

 

End game of WoW sucks. Weak PVP or the same instances over and over. Do you remember WoW at launch? It had NOTHING. No raids, no PVP, no end agme content. Hey, we're already getting a new flashpoint this month plus we have the other stuff. It already has a ton of endgame for an MMO launch.

[Doomsaga]

To answer the title question, it's because of exaggerations like this one that some people mock the "doom sayers".

 

The game has flaws, yes, but it's far from a complete failure.

 

Here is MY "accurate breakdown" of those three games:

WoW > SWTOR > Rift in terms of difficulty in raiding.

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of difficulty (solo play/leveling).

SWTOR = WoW > Rift in terms of combat smoothness

SWTOR = WoW > Rift in terms of accessibility

WoW > SWTOR > Rift in terms of PvP (lol @ Rift PvP...)

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of leveling (just the fact you put Rift before WoW is hillarious here... but whatever).

WoW = SWTOR > Rift in terms of balance

WoW > SWTOR > Rift in terms of content

WoW > SWTOR > Rift in terms of size (again, the fact you put Rift before SWTOR is hilarious...)

WoW = SWTOR = Rift in terms of MMO - all three are MMOs.

SWTOR > WoW = Rift in terms of RPG (only point we seem to agree on)

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of cinematics (who cares?)

 

Remember, opinions are like lower back holes... everybody has one.

 

Anyway, we will see who puts their money where their mouth is January 20 (in 14 days).

 

The minute you said swtor = wow and is < rift in combat smoothness you lost all credibility and turned into a fanboy who hates rift and rifts pvp is far better than swtor(which doesnt take much to beat swtor pvp atm)

[danatharia]

I don't know how to fix the mess Bioware has created. I'm not a programmar, nor do I pretend to be one. I do know that animation length is largely to do with the combat system being wildly unresponsive and slow, but I have no idea how to fix it other than "allow clipping" (what WoW does, hence their incredibly smooth combat system).

Smooth but also quite ugly to look at. Animation quality is often severely lacking in WoW. Wouldn't call it "incredibly" smooth however, there are many games with better combat mechanics out there, "incredibly" denotes that it is if not the best at least very close, which it isn't.

What people fail to remember is this: SWTOR does the aestethics of a game well, they do the core gameplay, mechanics and basic functions however rather poorly. This is my gripe with the game. The majority seem to be content, and pleased, that the game appeals to aestethics users rather than users who strive for good (read=complete, working, smooth) gameplay.

Granted I am just level 27 atm, but the only true gripe I have with the game is the lack of responsiveness, which is a flaw I really do agree with. I do however believe that once that one issue has been ironed out the gameplay will feel much more worthwhile than it currently does, thus solving any/all issues with the gameplay.

 

The basics are there and imo they are solid, I don't feel as if one class has access to some ridiculous amount of crowd control for example (see Mages in WoW, that is BAD class design if anything) which could hurt the PvP scene of the game greatly. More to the point all classes feel rather unique in some way or other which is very important (granted say Sith Warrior and Jedi Knight are similar, but that's just what happens).

 

What do I propose? Quicker animations. Bioware doesn't have to sack their current animation system completely or force them all to clip, they just have to speed them up. In the movies (well the most recent ones) the Jedi move rather fast so I don't see a problem with dodging or attacking being fast as a result. Make all animations just cling to being max 1.5 seconds long as to accomodate for the global cooldown, and then speed them up accordingly with alacrity (?).

[Blackwater]

you obviously do not like this game

 

..so why are you here posting this?

 

Go play Hello Panda Adventure or whatever you want. You aren't forced to play this.

 

I don't like WoW anymore and haven't played in months, but I don't go post on the WoW forums about how I dislike it so much.

 

????????????

 

OH BOY, here we go.

 

Ladies and gentlemen, the reason SWTOR will fail! Right here!

[BobTheTeepo]

It's the focal point in a few point. I'm willing to bet people would rather experience end game content rather than relevel and watch the same cinematics 7 different times purely for a "new story."

 

I've level 2 level 50s, one Empire [my main], one Republic [alt~], and I'm bored of the cinematics already.

 

You are, I am not. That is purely subjective (I have a level 50 Guardian, a level 43 Vanguard, and a level 35 Marauder). Furthermore, even if you were entirely correct, the fact is that it does have vast amounts of playable content, more than Rift by far but I cannot speak about WoW. Again, you shouldn't even compare a 5+ year (sorry I don't play much WoW) game to a new game as far as amount of content, that is not fair at all.

[kalibri]

I don't want clipping like in wow. It destroys for me my "suspension of disbelief". No offense meant at all but you raid/l337/power players just have a different perspective than many of us. I get that this is somehow a competition for you, but the reason I like this game is because it is NOT like wow, where everything is about perfect balance and while there is good lore the story takes a back seat to people jumping in circles around each other until someone is dead.

 

I like the story, I wouldn't be here at all if it didn't look good, and have a good story. Making it "fluid" like wow would ruin it for me personally. If I wanted to play wow I would play wow (I did, and it doesn't suit me). I want to play a story focused game... To me, when it becomes focused on perfect balance and function over form it loses it's interest. It becomes all numbers... why even have a graphical interface at all? Graphics are clunky. Why not sit in chat rooms and use random number generators to see who "wins" in "PvP".....

 

To me, individuals with this perspective want to strip the soul out of the game.... and without the soul... well what does any of it matter?

 

Let me be the bearer of bad news: STORY ENDS at some point. What will you do? Stop playing? What about the rest of us who want to enjoy raiding and pvp, and be here for a log time?

 

That's a rather selfish attitude.

Edited January 6, 2012 by kalibri

[Cranberries]

End game of WoW sucks. Weak PVP or the same instances over and over. Do you remember WoW at launch? It had NOTHING. No raids, no PVP, no end agme content. Hey, we're already getting a new flashpoint this month plus we have the other stuff. It already has a ton of endgame for an MMO launch.

 

WoW was released 14th November 2004.

Patch 1.1.0 was released 7th November 2004: http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.1.0

 

I suggest you read that, because it debunks your argument.

 

The current end game for SWTOR is bugged: incomplete, wildly unresponsive and just purely impossible to manage because of the core gameplay funtions the game lacks.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Cranberries

[Mertissielle]

most of the "white knight" people are just sick of people complaining that the game isnt exactly like WoW....if you doubt me, I could pull up dozens of links proving my point, but I really don't feel like it...you can look for yourself.

 

2 different games.

 

Play or don't play. It's as simple as that.

 

They're not complaining that it isn't exactly like WoW though, are they? They're using WoW as an example of certain things which have worked well. WoW does fluid combat "feel" incredibly well and has been praised publically since its inception for this point. People want SW:TOR to do well and they recognise that this is one of the main ways in which WoW has kept a large subscriber base so it's only natural they bring up that comparison.

 

I'd wager that for every one of your "dozens of links", there are people in there that don't want something because it'll make the game the same as WoW but that they've recognised that it's become a key component in a sustainable MMORPG and, therefore, would like to see Bioware make those amendments because it'll be an important factor in the long-term success of SW:TOR.

[Dorkfrey]

Have you even played Rift? One planet on SWTOR is like the size of the entire Rift world lol. Oh and wait...Rift is difficult? Yeah it's so hard with my Rogue having 11 skills macro'd only 1 button and spamming 2 buttons the entire raid while topping the dps charts. Honestly...If you think Rift and WOW are difficult then I'd HATE to play a game like FFXI or Lineage 2 with you...

 

Oh how I miss hour long boss fights.

 

Screw clearing trash and the rest of it. A three hour HNM session would involve killing a couple of bits of trash, and then some EPIC fights. With a chunk of walking.

 

But - they also screwed up with AV. Damn I hated that boss with a passion.

 

Although - some of the 30 second fights were quite fun too (we had Rid/Kraken or Apoc DK's in our LS). Definately definately - so much harder than WoW ever was. Perhaps less standing in the fire mechanics, but - to be honest, skillchaining (to get a kill done before rage) was a damned sight harder than stepping out of the fire - esp with hate mechanics what they were.

[Zedfragg]

I've got a crazy suggestion.

 

How about we judge SWTOR on it's own merits, WOW on it's own merits and Rift on...Well personally I hated Rift I found it boring and tedious also a resource hog that ran like hell but judge it on it's own merits.

 

Yes, they are all MMO's, yes they all share features and a genre. But get over it.

This is not WoW nor Rift and they are not SWTOR. We play SWTOR because we enjoy it and if you play it whilst not enjoying it you are a moron that should NOT be let near a computer because evidently if you play a game you do not enjoy you have the IQ of a glass of water...

 

Christ it's like peoples IQ's drop to the 90's as soon as forums are up