Selecting Need for your companion

[FuzzPop]

So entertain these questions.. If I "didn't care about anything other than myself" why would I do any of the following:

 

1. Pull aggro from a low level player that's barely even helping the group get through the flash point?

2. Sacrifice myself for the healer in a battle when I'm pretty sure we could finish with him dead?

3. Pass on items I could use so that other people in the group have a better chance at getting something, especially if I've already gotten something I want from the flashpoint.

 

I do all of those things on a regular basis. I'm not selfish and inconsiderate, I just perceive my needs differently than you do, and you're not the supreme judge of video game righteousness. As far as I'm concerned, if I want something to put on my companion, it's no different than wanting a weapon for myself. It's a need I have and feel the need to fulfill. I'm not just blindly clicking Need everytime I see it, and I'm not going to click Need unless it's something I truly believe that I need. And I have every right to do that.

 

well no, you didn't say all that earlier. It just looks like you're backtracking now. Next time you should clarify that you aren't in fact as selfish as you appeared.

 

you never said earlier that you "pass on items". you only stated that you have every right to every piece of gear that drops, and that's all.

[RycheMykola]

It's only your opinion that I'm some kind of jerk for rolling need for a companion.

 

The opinions of a small minority of players in a video game are of very little consequence in my life.

Actually, most players think those that roll need for their companions are jerks. They're not the minority.

If you're companion was in the flashpoint helping, fine.

 

Just make sure YOU don't get mad when there is a loot drop that you've been trying to get forever and you lose the roll to someone that is going to use it on there companion.

 

You could theoretically need roll on everything then and claim its for your companion.

[OdonKnight]

I agree. Ideally, there would be a viewable profile where I could declare, "I roll "need" for companion upgrades." Transparency on the topic is the best course.

 

..and precisely how many of these loot ninja's who need for companions (or insert any other person they deem need the item or credits for selling it) have the decency or courage to tell the people they are grouped with that their definition of need differs from the standard one?

 

Answer: zero

 

Also - do you think the proponents of need means whatever they deem it to mean, and thus are entitled to everything they feel they are entitled to, would still defend their position if they were posting in the identity (name + server) of their characters? Very few.

Edited January 6, 2012 by OdonKnight

[SingleCoilPickup]

Actually, most players think those that roll need for their companions are jerks. They're not the minority.

 

Again, you're assuming it's most because that's what you're used to or that's who you play with. I challenge that assertion as I've never run into anyone caring about it in game. It's just you "hardcore MMO gamers" here in the forum foaming at the mouth about it. In reality, this just isn't a problem.

[Baracca]

FP dropped loot should be need for you only and greed for companions. the game should prevent you otherwise. I shouldn't need to run an instance 10 times for an item. EOS

[SingleCoilPickup]

well no, you didn't say all that earlier. It just looks like you're backtracking now. Next time you should clarify that you aren't in fact as selfish as you appeared.

 

you never said earlier that you "pass on items". you only stated that you have every right to every piece of gear that drops, and that's all.

 

I don't have to explain every possible facet of my gameplay in every post. I do have every right to roll for a piece of gear that drops. The fact that I sometimes pass in no way contradicts that.

 

If there's something that drops that's a major upgrade for my primary companion, I'm rolling for it. If it's a minor upgrade or I've already gotten a couple of things in the instance, I'm likely to either Greed or Pass on it. That doesn't at all contradict with my viewpoint that it's OK to roll Need for a companion so long as it's something you legitimately feel you need.

[jellOfish]

I don't care if it did or didn't, and I don't consider myself selfish and don't care if you consider me selfish just because you're butthurt that I got gear that you wanted.

 

My companion is still valid because without it, I wouldn't be leveled to where I am and I wouldn't be of any use to the group. In order to keep myself leveled and useful to groups, I have to do solo quests and need my companion, therefore, he needs to be geared. Period.

 

For someone who doesn't care you sure post quite a bit. If you wouldn't have leveled without equiping your compations with FP gear other people helped you to get then you are doing it wrong. And I am also pretty sure you didn't get the gear I wanted. Being the terrible player that you are who needs FP gear on his compations just to do normal quests, I am pretty sure you are far, far behind me.

 

EDIT: So you basically don't care about anyone but yourself.

Edited January 6, 2012 by jellOfish

[OdonKnight]

And you're correct, I would not.

 

This is exactly as far as the thought process goes with me and loot:

 

1. I see loot.

2. I see the stats are significantly better than mine and/or my primary companion (mainly Khem Val, I don't care about Andronikas).

3. I roll Need.

4. Some other dude rolls Need.

5. Some other dude wins.

6. I think to myself "Damn, too bad, I wanted that one. I'll have to try again next time."

7. I go on with my life.

8. I never think about losing that particular piece of loot again ever in my life because it's so insignificant that it's not worth getting upset about.

 

Which, because the person you quoted was referring to you people having equal share/entitlement to need items it is perfectly OK to substitute your #2 with:

I need it for my bank account

I need it to delete it to keep something that (ugly/stupid/op/tacky) from being in the player base

I need it for its colors

I need it for my guildmate

I need it for my alt

I need it for my alt's companion

I need it for my alt's guildmate's companion

 

You have neutered the very definition of need. By your definition the greed button should be removed from the game - but you wouldn't want that as it would reduce your ability and percentage chance to get said items are you are benefiting from people abiding by the socially understood meaning of "need".

[SingleCoilPickup]

For someone who doesn't care you sure post quite a bit. If you wouldn't have leveled without equiping your compations with FP gear other people helped you to get then you are doing it wrong. And I am also pretty sure you didn't get the gear I wanted. Being the terrible player that you are who needs FP gear on his compations just to do normal quests, I am pretty sure you are far, far behind me.

 

And if I am far, far behind you? Then what? And if I'm not the best player to ever grace an MMO? Then what?

 

Oh, right, it doesn't matter at all. Because it's, you know, a game. I hold my own just fine in the game, and I support groups well. Believe that or believe whatever else you want. It doesn't really change anything.

[Eldren]

Again, you're assuming it's most because that's what you're used to or that's who you play with. I challenge that assertion as I've never run into anyone caring about it in game. It's just you "hardcore MMO gamers" here in the forum foaming at the mouth about it. In reality, this just isn't a problem.

 

SCP brings up a valid point here.

 

The loot will always be there. Getting upset at someone who won a roll, regardless of their intent to use the item or not, is asinine. They consider their companion a part of their character, you don't. It's their character, what they have to say trumps what you have to say solely because it isn't your character.

 

If you don't consider companions important, that's fine. But you can't expect someone else who thinks differently to automatically agree with you (and act accordingly) because you're claiming what you believe to be a moral high ground, when they might not at all. Moral high ground is only that if everyone agrees it is. When not everyone does, it all breaks down.

 

We cooperate to down bosses so we can get to their gear. We don't cooperate with each other in gear distribution, because we aren't there to gear up others. We accept that others will get gear because of our assistance. They need to accept the same.

 

Cooperation = boss downing = everyone who stakes a claim having an equal chance at drops. If you didn't stake a claim of the same priority as someone else, you've only yourself to be upset with.

[Behrit]

I ran into this the other day running through a flash point.

 

I selected Need for my companion. Someone got really mad at me for doing that.

I explained that I use my companion 90% of the time outside of groups and one way of getting decent gear is through flashpoints. Getting gear through questing is only ok gear. I am not about to buy gear all the time. I have a sorc and my companion is a tank. I use my tank a lot.

 

Am I wrong on selected Need for my companion?

 

I would like to get peoples opinion on this since this game I think is a little different then other games since we have companions.

 

My argument is since I use my companion 90% soloing, I feel as my companion and me are treated as 1.

 

 

I would say just ask first. If I could use it on my main, and someone rolled need for their companion, I would be peeved a bit. Not a huge deal, but these groups are small enough where you can certainly ask if anyone minds.

[SingleCoilPickup]

Which, because the person you quoted was referring to you people having equal share/entitlement to need items it is perfectly OK to substitute your #2 with:

I need it for my bank account

I need it to delete it to keep something that (ugly/stupid/op/tacky) from being in the player base

I need it for its colors

I need it for my guildmate

I need it for my alt

I need it for my alt's companion

I need it for my alt's guildmate's companion

 

You have neutered the very definition of need. By your definition the greed button should be removed from the game - but you wouldn't want that as it would reduce your ability and percentage chance to get said items are you are benefiting from people abiding by the socially understood meaning of "need".

 

I agree. The game should just have Roll/Pass. I'd be fine with that. Everyone's definition of need and greed is likely to be different. Nowhere in the game is there a "This is what Need means and this is what Greed means" rule. It's something all of you are making up based on some perceived set of rules that you've chosen to live by. I find no reason to conform to those, so it's of no consequence to me, and as such, I don't at all care why anyone else chooses to roll need vs greed. I don't care if your intention is to roll Need and then drop the item on the spot. That's absolutely your prerogative.

[Florial]

Again, you're assuming it's most because that's what you're used to or that's who you play with. I challenge that assertion as I've never run into anyone caring about it in game. It's just you "hardcore MMO gamers" here in the forum foaming at the mouth about it. In reality, this just isn't a problem.

 

I'm not a hardcore player nor am I foaming at the mouth. I'm actually rather casual with a similar attitude about gear. However, when I feel that someone in a group is taking advantage or being incredibly selfish, it vexes me a bit. I think that we are just talking about common decency in groups and a certain ettiqutte that has been the norm in most MMOs. A few that I've always observed:

 

-don't roll for alts over a player actually in the group who will equip that item of gear

-don't node steal from people who are fighting the mob around that resource

-etc

 

I know that companions are a touchy subject because in this game, they are such a vital extention of yourself. I've grown rather fond of mind, even Khem Val.... . It will be interesting to see what the norm becomes in the game and these discussions are good to have.

[jellOfish]

And if I am far, far behind you? Then what? And if I'm not the best player to ever grace an MMO? Then what?

 

Oh, right, it doesn't matter at all. Because it's, you know, a game. I hold my own just fine in the game, and I support groups well. Believe that or believe whatever else you want. It doesn't really change anything.

 

No wonder you hold your own "just fine" when you have your companion decked out in gear that would be better used on an actualy player.

[pseaton]

Questions like this are very interesting to me because it is a 100% social rule that has been completely made up. There is nothing in the game stopping you from rolling "need" for a companion - therefore, it is technically fine and completely viable.

 

However, players will often make up social rules and then vehemently enforce them on others. There have been a few interesting studies about how far players go to enforce rules that do not exist programmatically.

 

Many people in this thread attempt to apply social pressure to others to play the game the way -they- believe it should be played. There is absolutely nothing in-game that says it should be played that way; they have just decided it should be true, and resort to lots of anger and negative reinforcement to enforce their viewpoint of what is "right" and "wrong" in the game.

 

At the end of the day, it's a game: anyone who gets bent out of shape because of a loot roll should probably take a break and do something else for a while. It's not a big deal. You can always run the flashpoint again.

 

That said, if you wish to abide by the unwritten and un-intuitive social rules that many are trying to enforce, you may want to at least ask about rolling for companion gear to see what your current group has decided to enforce. If it doesn't bother you what others say, then do what you think is right.

 

 

 

I like it

[RycheMykola]

Again, you're assuming it's most because that's what you're used to or that's who you play with. I challenge that assertion as I've never run into anyone caring about it in game. It's just you "hardcore MMO gamers" here in the forum foaming at the mouth about it. In reality, this just isn't a problem.

Like I said, when an awesome loot drops (something you've been gunning for a while or just looks awesome on your toon) and someone wins over you for there companion (which, possibly, you might not even see on the companion), you'll be upset.

 

If someone asked first if they mind need rolling for there companion, I wouldn't have an issue. I'd probably let them have it to if it was just a slight upgrade for me.

 

Like I said, its easy to say you would have no issue with it, until it happens to you.

 

Personally, I don't need FP gear for my companions, simple green loot is more than sufficient for me. Heck, I'm 45 and my main companion still has level 30-40 greens an I have 0 issues with any quests.

[Spynnal]

If you PuG, set the rules at the start. If an outlier disagrees with the group decision, remove them, and find someone that fits. Only way to avoid drama. People will define "need" differently.

[SingleCoilPickup]

I'm not a hardcore player nor am I foaming at the mouth. I'm actually rather casual with a similar attitude about gear. However, when I feel that someone in a group is taking advantage or being incredibly selfish, it vexes me a bit. I think that we are just talking about common decency in groups and a certain ettiqutte that has been the norm in most MMOs. A few that I've always observed:

 

-don't roll for alts over a player actually in the group who will equip that item of gear

-don't node steal from people who are fighting the mob around that resource

-etc

 

I know that companions are a touchy subject because in this game, they are such a vital extention of yourself. I've grown rather fond of mind, even Khem Val.... . It will be interesting to see what the norm becomes in the game and these discussions are good to have.

 

Right, but here's the thing, I'm not going to roll Need every single time I see something I could conceivably use on a companion. If I see something that's a good upgrade, I'm going to probably roll for it. However, I do want the whole group to be happy, so I don't mindlessly roll Need over and over.

 

Rolling Need for a companion once or so in a flashpoint does not make me a selfish jerk as some seem to think.

[OdonKnight]

SCP brings up a valid point here.

 

The loot will always be there. Getting upset at someone who won a roll, regardless of their intent to use the item or not, is asinine. They consider their companion a part of their character, you don't. It's their character, what they have to say trumps what you have to say solely because it isn't your character.

 

If you don't consider companions important, that's fine. But you can't expect someone else who thinks differently to automatically agree with you (and act accordingly) because you're claiming what you believe to be a moral high ground, when they might not at all. Moral high ground is only that if everyone agrees it is. When not everyone does, it all breaks down.

 

We cooperate to down bosses so we can get to their gear. We don't cooperate with each other in gear distribution, because we aren't there to gear up others. We accept that others will get gear because of our assistance. They need to accept the same.

 

Cooperation = boss downing = everyone who stakes a claim having an equal chance at drops. If you didn't stake a claim of the same priority as someone else, you've only yourself to be upset with.

 

I love the mental gymnastics. OK - we cooperate on downing bosses. YOU, unilaterally, picking need for an item (say that you cannot even equip) to give to another (companion, alt, stranger, guildmate, alt's companion, alt's friends neighbors sister) means you are stating that anyone in the game YOU unilaterally deem worthy is just as entitled to the fruits of the labors of the group they were not in. Anyone in the game is just as entitled to "Need" that loot - even if they don't need it in the R/L definition way - because YOU are entitled to decide to elevate those who did nothing to being full party members, with rights and privileges therein, to benefit from those living breathing people of the fruits of their labor because YOU are capable of hitting the need button.

[Liathan]

Personally I feel it's rude to take gear for a companion or an off spec over someone who will use it right away for their main spec. This is a MMO, which to me means that you have to take other people into consideration when you are making decisions. Personally I believe in a little thing called decency, but if you don't, well then that's your issue and not mine. But if you need an item for your companion, well then I need that item you wanted so it can sit in my bag and look pretty.

[SingleCoilPickup]

Like I said, when an awesome loot drops (something you've been gunning for a while or just looks awesome on your toon) and someone wins over you for there companion (which, possibly, you might not even see on the companion), you'll be upset.

 

If someone asked first if they mind need rolling for there companion, I wouldn't have an issue. I'd probably let them have it to if it was just a slight upgrade for me.

 

Like I said, its easy to say you would have no issue with it, until it happens to you.

 

Personally, I don't need FP gear for my companions, simple green loot is more than sufficient for me. Heck, I'm 45 and my main companion still has level 30-40 greens an I have 0 issues with any quests.

 

It has happened to me. Several times. In fact it happened once last night. I really, truly, genuinely do not care. I'm not that obsessed with the game that I'm going to allow myself to get actually upset over a piece of imaginary armor that I might have wanted.

[Merouk]

This discussion is moot for quite a number of reasons:

 

- It won't have any effect in-game (a very small percentage of in-game players actually read the forums).

 

- You're not convincing anyone (on either side - I'm not seeing anyone saying ok you guys are right, I will change my rolling behavior from now on).

 

- Even if a group establishes some sort of rules about how to roll at the beginning of the run, once the purple drops there will ALWAYS be a ninja there.

 

- Y'all are not even discussing bind-on-pickup, for which the "honor" rules are different.

 

- There are no server forums, so there's no real way to establish someone's reputation as a ninja and have any sort of negative repercussions happen to them.

 

Personally, my loot rules lean towards excluding companions (unless they're needed to tank, for example), but in every single flashpoint I've been in, someone has ALWAYS rolled need on a bind-on-pickup gear they couldn't equip, which is why I won't do PUGs and will run with guildies-only from now on (it's usually what I do in MMO's).

 

There's no way to predict the ninja on the item you really want, so might as well need everything and at least get something from the flashpoint. Even if everyone swears up and down to be nice, you still can't prevent the ninja.

[Asung]

Vote in this poll to settle it once and for all.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=139839

 

http://poll.pollcode.com/0oMb_result?v

[pseaton]

FP dropped loot should be need for you only and greed for companions. the game should prevent you otherwise. I shouldn't need to run an instance 10 times for an item. EOS

 

 

 

This person has a serious issue. I would like to know if this person uses his/her companion leveling. I think you should drop your companion and just level solo.

[Chaizen]

This argument is never going to see resolution if left up to the entire player-base themselves. It's turned in to the same endless back and forth debate in every thread created about it since release, and there have been a LOT of threads about it. That's no complaint against the OP since we don't have a search option. Just saying, it's never-ending.

 

Personally, I would just do what you think is right and expect that the people that don't agree will likely take action to avoid you in the future unless you clearly communicated your intentions and everyone agrees on the end result. It's really very simple. Communication = respect, and that earns you points to gain you an easier time of finding groups in the future with a positive reputation.

 

Bioware should still get involved in a solution to the problem though. I think some of the good ideas so far include implementing a 'need or greed for companion', 'need' only selectable if it applies to the primary player's character, or other workable alternative to player demand for an answer to this dilemma.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Chaizen